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  1. #1
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    This just in, Glycocarn alone > SP250, NO Xplod, Nano Vapor (scientific study within)

    EDIT: figured I'd toss this in, but this study doesn't particularly reflect well on glycocarn either, NONE of the supplements INCLUDING Glycocarn performed anywhere near the way they are hyped. I don't want to appear too bias here

    http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-7-16.pdf

    Published today.

    Sponsored by Sigma-Tau

    Figures 1, 2, and 3, show the ingredient lists of 'SUPP1, SUPP2, SUPP3'

    supp1 is sp250
    supp2 is No Xplod
    supp3 is Nano Vapor

    Commence arguing!


    Harsh wording for SUPP1, 2, and 3:

    "Our findings indicate that, compared to a maltodextrin placebo, none of the products
    tested in the present study result in effects that are statistically different with regards to exercise
    performance, skeletal muscle blood flow, muscle pump, HLa, NOx, or MDA. These findings
    clearly refute the advertisement claims for these products, at least in the context of their use to
    impact acute exercise performance, blood flow, muscle pump, and NOx within a controlled
    laboratory environment."

    EDIT: To add another excerpt:

    "These data indicate that 1) a single ingredient
    (GlycoCarn®) can provide similar practical benefit as compared to finished products containing
    multiple ingredients pertaining to many of the outcome measures included within the present
    design, and 2) the tested finished products are clearly ineffective in terms of increasing blood
    flow and improving acute upper body exercise performance, and do not produce results that
    match the widely advertised marketing claims."
    Last edited by De__eB; 05-07-2010 at 11:27 AM.
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  2. #2
    Non-Famous Non-Scientist koard31's Avatar
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    That's a lot to read, I trust your summary.
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    brb grabbing some popcorn

    Don't have time to read the whole study at the moment but I'm sure someone is going to come in and do it for me
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    I see that NOW carries it.
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    I take N.O. products specifically for the placebo effect.



    (When you get a huge pump it makes you wanna hit the gym all the time.)
    Spike92 is 15.
    ^ place this in your sig to remind the world that Spike92 is indeed 15 and will never be anything other than 15.


    When im not hungry I eat. When Im tired I train. When I feel like giving up I push harder.
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  7. #7
    Molecular Nutrition Rep SwolenONE's Avatar
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    this was already known, but glad they did a study comparing it to these more old school type of NO products
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    Originally Posted by Big Slim DaDDy View Post
    I take N.O. products specifically for the placebo effect.



    (When you get a huge pump it makes you wanna hit the gym all the time.)
    The arginine in all 3 of those products is useless as an 'NO' product, see:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=124049701

    At least buy something that actually enhances your eNOS, if you want to get an even better upmp.
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    Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    Sponsored by Sigma-Tau
    /thread
    Max Savin
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    max@savinnutrition.com
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by SwolenONE View Post
    this was already known, but glad they did a study comparing it to these more old school type of NO products
    well, it might have been known, but now there's a study to prove it
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  11. #11
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    Nice find and I too trust your summary, 40 pages!!
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by M Savin View Post
    /thread
    how do you figure?

    Even with their bias on the narrative, look at the results.

    Are you saying the study isn't accurate? that they're lying in the results?

    Compared to the studies on SP250 that Gaspari performed, (against water...LOL...and against maltodexterin) this thing is WAY better executed, and uses actual competing products.
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  13. #13
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    Yeah, the thing is that not many products have enough dose of glycocarn(presurge doesn't, neaither hemorage).
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    NOW sells it on its own so you can dose it as you please
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    Originally Posted by De__eB View Post
    The arginine in all 3 of those products is useless as an 'NO' product, see:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=124049701

    At least buy something that actually enhances your eNOS, if you want to get an even better upmp.
    Such as?
    Spike92 is 15.
    ^ place this in your sig to remind the world that Spike92 is indeed 15 and will never be anything other than 15.


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    Originally Posted by Srmanuel View Post
    Yeah, the thing is that not many products have enough dose of glycocarn(presurge doesn't, neaither hemorage).
    Incorrect assumption.
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    Originally Posted by Srmanuel View Post
    Yeah, the thing is that not many products have enough dose of glycocarn(presurge doesn't, neaither hemorage).
    What is an effective dose of glycocarn?
    Let the gains begin.

    Row-gain!
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by CURB-DOG View Post
    What is an effective dose of glycocarn?
    staying glued for Gaspari feedback, especially DES
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by daveburton View Post
    staying glued for Gaspari feedback, especially DES
    I bet they will stay out of this thread
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    mhp's no-bomb has 4.5g of it. just pointing out for reference for dosing concerns.
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  21. #21
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    Subbed.
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  22. #22
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    Talking Interesting...

    We conclude that when compared to a maltodextrin placebo, none of the products tested
    in the present study resulted in effects that are statistically different with regards to exercise performance, skeletal muscle blood flow, muscle pump, HLa, NOx, or MDA.




    Quite a different outcome than the 'clinical' studies undertaken by Gaspari with their highly marketed pre-workout Superpump. We keep hearing about their legendary clinical trials on this forum.


    In the 1st independent pilot study (The Single Dose Study) conducted on SuperPump, increases in lean mass nearly tripled in a single workout with just 1 dose of SuperPump250® as compared to not taking the supplement. If that’s not enough, body fat percentages simultaneously dropped as opposed to no changes in body fat recorded without the supplement. In the 2nd groundbreaking trial (The 30 Day Study), double-blind, placebo controlled using 30 trained athletes, subjects using SuperPump250® for 30 days (compared to placebo group) showed a 947% greater increase in lean mass (with a remarkable 25.5 times greater increase in the lean mass of the arms!), a 234% greater increase in muscle performance, and a significant decrease in body fat compared to an increase experienced by the placebo group.




    Good thing I am not a rep! I couldn't be paid enough to argue this one. Well, maybe Iceman's salary would be worth it according to him.



    Their words, not mine: the tested finished products are clearly ineffective in terms of increasing blood
    flow and improving acute upper body exercise performance, and do not produce results that
    match the widely advertised marketing claims
    Last edited by Peter LeDrew; 05-06-2010 at 05:29 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Haa oh boy this should be good.

    BTW I take 4.5gms of GlycoCarn pre workout (NOW and Jarrow brand), it is gooooood stuff. I am considering buying it bulk at 29 cents per gm and taking it every day but not sure if that is needed.
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  24. #24
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    Gylcocarn is good stuff. I remember someone posting that study by Sigma Tau saying that 4.5 grams is the effective dose of GC.


    L-Arg based products have always been all hype no science backing (In Healthy Humans)
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  25. #25
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    i guess in on 1
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  26. #26
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    There was really a single dose study?
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    I'm trying to get back into lifting after a 3-4 year hiatus and am currently buying up some supplements(currently got whey, creatine mono, animal pak). I was looking to pick up NO-xplod but am not sure after reading this.

    So basically what this study is saying that I can get the same effects as NO-explod by just taking Glycocarn? Which would presumably be a lot cheaper too.
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    Hero. Psycho. Insomniac. Skigazzi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Brian2187 View Post

    So basically what this study is saying that I can get the same effects as NO-explod by just taking Glycocarn? Which would presumably be a lot cheaper too.
    No, its saying you'll get better effects...or better said, you'll get actual effects.
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    Just looking at Superpump250s profile leads one to not put to much faith in the claims created for this product. It's even funnier when they market these Preworkout supps as "N.O. products" when nothing in their formula promotes this. Preworkout supps like Presurge Unleashed or Vengeance are preworkouts that due promote N.O. along with other supplements that have actual ingredients that promote N.O.
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    beersandwich is offline
    Originally Posted by Brian2187 View Post
    I'm trying to get back into lifting after a 3-4 year hiatus and am currently buying up some supplements(currently got whey, creatine mono, animal pak). I was looking to pick up NO-xplod but am not sure after reading this.

    So basically what this study is saying that I can get the same effects as NO-explod by just taking Glycocarn? Which would presumably be a lot cheaper too.

    basically most pre workout wont instantly magically build muscle, however they usually give you a boost in energy, some endurance and some pump. i still find it usefull and i personally like having a nice drink before workout and gettin some BA tingles.
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