Poll: Do you want Entitlement programs?

[tk217]

This is a poll for R/P Americans regarding Social Security Medicare/Medicaid.

[tk217]

This is a poll for R/P Americans regarding Social Security Medicare/Medicaid.

Hmm my poll is exceptionally one sided so far.

[tts0lid]

how do you propose we handle healthcare for senior citizens?

tell the 80 year olds to go out and find a company that will insure them? good luck.

[YUL]

come on man...anybody with 1 iota of intelligence wants free stuff or wants the benefit of some other jabroni's contribution to the system.

[tk217]

come on man...anybody with 1 iota of intelligence wants free stuff or wants the benefit of some other jabroni's contribution to the system.

lotta views - not many votes.

[nutsy54]

how do you propose we handle healthcare for senior citizens?

tell the 80 year olds to go out and find a company that will insure them? good luck.

The same way we managed to "handle it" for the first two centuries of this country's existence... Plan ahead and save! (Which would be a hell of a lot easier if the Government didn't reduce our paychecks quite as much each month). Accept responsibility for your own actions and decisions. And when all else fails, look to family, charity, church, etc.

[tts0lid]

The same way we managed to "handle it" for the first two centuries of this country's existence... Plan ahead and save! (Which would be a hell of a lot easier if the Government didn't reduce our paychecks quite as much each month). Accept responsibility for your own actions and decisions. And when all else fails, look to family, charity, church, etc.

200 years ago, if people got sick they just died. Look at life expectancy's in the 1800s and 1900s.. (mostly because of lack of technology) in 1850 the average life expectancy was 38. in 1900 it was 47. So saying we "managed it" is a crock of ****. there was nothing to "manage"

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/s...dard.living.us

[tk217]

200 years ago, if people got sick they just died. Look at life expectancy's in the 1800s and 1900s.. (mostly because of lack of technology) in 1850 the average life expectancy was 38. in 1900 it was 47. So saying we "managed it" is a crock of ****. there was nothing to "manage"

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/s...dard.living.us

And a strong majority of people believed witches were real and wanted to curse you...

And, we had very little medicine - virtually no vaccines - and no concept of tobacco being harmful.

Child labor was common and death during birth was very common and work related accidents that included death were ... expected...

What really kills life expectancy isn't so much not actually living - it is child birth deaths.

If you excluded those who lived beyond 90 years and those who died at 0 you get a real picture of actual life expetancy.

Some would want to argue that you should include all those who are aborted in life expectancy in America to justify means -- that would knock our life expectancy down a lot.

[Inev]

200 years ago, if people got sick they just died. Look at life expectancy's in the 1800s and 1900s.. (mostly because of lack of technology) in 1850 the average life expectancy was 38. in 1900 it was 47. So saying we "managed it" is a crock of ****. there was nothing to "manage"

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/s...dard.living.us

a healthy lifestyle will improve your quality of life and health more than medicine ever could (with today's technology).

Look at people who are healthy. They often receive preventative care from medicine, and they also take care of themselves. Spending trillions of dollars on medical care does not significantly improve their health compared to what just living healthy does.




About the polll . . . i am surprised . . . .This is extremely one sided so far.

[tk217]

About the polll . . . i am surprised . . . .This is extremely one sided so far.

Yes, it either makes a profound statement about this forum or it tells me I made a badly worded poll

[nutsy54]

Yes, it either makes a profound statement about this forum or it tells me I made a badly worded poll

Maybe... People don't like being forced to support others, especially those who didn't plan, and didn't take responsibility for themselves throughout their lives? We don't like the Government pretending it can manage our money better than we can? (Yes, the guys who are $13 Trillion in debt really can be trusted with my retirement savings, huh?) We don't like watching massive bureaucracy-laden programs collapse under their own weight into abysmal bankruptcy?

[thundaclap]

brb, getting robbed at gunpoint by a senior citizen so they can get their meds, lol

[nutsy54]

brb, getting robbed at gunpoint by a senior citizen so they can get their meds, lol

Cite any examples of this actually happening.

PS: How much of your income do you voluntarily give to charity, those in need, and/or the US Treasury for redistribution as Congress sees fit?

[ProbateTed]

how do you propose we handle healthcare for senior citizens?

tell the 80 year olds to go out and find a company that will insure them? good luck.

You think that if people had 15% of their lifetime earnings back that the government steals from them maybe they could afford their own healthcare and retirement? If the average person works say 50 years in their lives, that's 7 and a half years of work that goes straight to the government. You really don't think 7.5 years of wages that are stolen through SS and med/med could support a debt-free living in retirement? Not to mention the numerous studies showing that private investment, rather than SS, has returns up to 10x higher, even using the safest investment vehicles such as CDs.

[nutsy54]

how do you propose we handle healthcare for senior citizens?

BRB... Checking... Yup, just as I thought. The money that I've put into savings and investment accounts, planning for my own future, is actually in my savings and investment accounts.

Imagine that - Personal responsibility for our own lives.

[Skunk]

BRB... Checking... Yup, just as I thought. The money that I've put into savings and investment accounts, planning for my own future, is actually in my savings and investment accounts.

Imagine that - Personal responsibility for our own lives.

You mean... that... you... aren't giving all that money... for... *gulp*... a bunch of other people you've never known?

Have you gone mad???

[Dokken5]

Hmm my poll is exceptionally one sided so far.

Makes you liberals feel inadequate huh?

Its kind of the wrong place to run a poll like that though. Go to the local bingo hall and it will be more on sided the other way.

[9987]

Yes, keep them. Social Security is important to the elderly and disabled.

[nutsy54]

Yes, keep them. Social Security is important to the elderly...

It's important that people should be forced to depend on an incompetent, bloated Government, because we're assumed to be too stupid to properly make our own decisions, and plan for our own lives?

[9987]

It's important that people should be forced to depend on an incompetent, bloated Government, because we're assumed to be too stupid to properly make our own decisions, and plan for our own lives?

lol.

Yeah, if it wasn't for welfare programs people would be living in mansions, retiring at 30, and banging high class prostitutes every night.

People can save and invest their money and rely on more than SS, so what's your point?

[daverick89]

lol.

Yeah, if it wasn't for welfare programs people would be living in mansions, retiring at 30, and banging high class prostitutes every night.

People can save and invest their money and rely on more than SS, so what's your point?

The people who contribute the most to those things are the people who don't pull from it.

[Blindead]

The people who contribute the most to those things are the people who don't pull from it.

That's generally the point...

[Streetbull]

Gotta phase 'em out, bankrupting the country.

[daverick89]

That's generally the point...

Yeah I find it kind of funny that my gf's grandfather gets **** for using medicare when he has probably solely paid more into medicare than the majority of people who go into his doctor's office.

edit: I think the problem is that human wants can quickly become human "needs" and that human wants are based off of what the other guy has. Surely if a rich person lives to 100 then a poor person is entitled to the same thing? Government spending money on poor people is not a bad thing, someone has to make sure that poor people's children go to school, etc. But the problem is that the people who want to run government become popular by appeasing people's "needs" which is unlimited compared to the amount of money we actually have to spend on them.

[SkinnyDip]

I think we should phase them out. They're insolvent and don't really provide an adequate retirement anyways. It is too important for the elderly that are already using the program, so taking it away from them obviously isn't an option. However, what if we had a choice to participate in these programs? I personally wouldn't participate, I would do what any responsible person should do, I already have disability insurance and a 401k. I save 25% of my paycheck, 12% to my 401k with my match. I do have to go without cable, eating out regularly, and I don't have a brand new car.

So, yes, no to entitlement programs.

[Cerulean]

Yes to both. Its quite easy for those not receiving any assistance to dis the programs. We all pay in so we can all take advantage of it when we need it. I would literally die if I didn't have any help. Just one of my medications is 2300. Thats just one! Not to mention hospitals stays. Even with copays, with 10 meds a month, that is $200. I envy the people who can use that 200./mo and piss it off. Hell that is a car payment, or almost 1/3 of my rent.

Did I let myself go? Am I personably responsible for my poor health? No. I was born with it. It seems cruel to deny anyone like me coverage just because of genetic bad luck. Its easy to write the programs off when you are healthy. Guys, geez, have a little compasion.

Face it folks, we live in a pseudo democracy with some elements of socialism. We have for quite some time. Socialism, to some extent, is moraly just. We pool our resources together as a society to help those in need. I challenge everyone to imagine what it would be like to have poor health and not have the ability to survive because medical expences waaaay surpases your monthly income. Imagine working solely to pay for these expenses, and not have the ability to live a quality life like those more fortunate.

Does the system need to be fixed? Perhaps, but lets focus on that, rather getting rid of these beneficial programs.

[MistaO]

The same way we managed to "handle it" for the first two centuries of this country's existence... Plan ahead and save! (Which would be a hell of a lot easier if the Government didn't reduce our paychecks quite as much each month). Accept responsibility for your own actions and decisions. And when all else fails, look to family, charity, church, etc.

Combine that with the great job the Federal Reserve is doing with our money's purchasing power:

[Cerulean]

bump

[TheAdlerian]

This is a poll for R/P Americans regarding Social Security Medicare/Medicaid.

The programs are "entitlements" they're necessary programs for social stability.

Your thread fails, right from the title.

[cavymeister]

SS & the Medicare program should be stopped. I think that it would need to be a stepped approach. Age dependency: those who are currently on it , or very close to getting it should be able to stay on it. The .gov shouldn't tell you "you've paid into this for so many years, and we'll give you your retirement check" then pull the rug out from under you.

Medicare should only be used for those who are unable to provide for themselves. i.e. Disabled due to no fault of their own, young children. This is a sticky one though as the care givers can abuse the system and take healthcare from ones that they take care of. I don't see poor as someone who cannot provide for themselves. If you are able bodied, then you can work at something.