Irrelavance of clean bulking.

[LexWochner]

It seems as though every time this topic comes up people like to use incredibly bogus examples in their arguments; such as the guy above comparing 3,000 calories from sprite to 3,000 calories from brown rice and chicken breast. No ****ing ****! Why is this ALWAYS the example when trying to argue against this? Sprite is seriously a first, I usually see twinkies or cookies.

Stop trying to sound smart with your terrible analogies.

Nate, who negged you for this? I see your rep power looks a little lower than it was yesterday. LMK and I'll get em back. Already got sprite boy.

.

Damn, beat me to it.

I think the science is there for a calorie=calorie as long as your protein needs are being met, but for me, it doesn't work that way. If I eat 2500 calories of chicken, rice, etc. I feel a lot better and seem to gain better than 2500 calories of fast food. Now, likely, this is a psychological effect, but seeing as how most of us train to feel/look better, I think it's dumb to ignore that aspect.

Also, remember, there is also no conclusive scientific evidence that more protein than the average person requires (so above like 140g/per day) equals more muscle. There are plenty of studies that say it does, and just as many that say it doesn't. Does it mean bodybuilders don't shoot for 1.5-2.5 grams per lb of bw? Hell no. Because sometimes what works for you isn't what science has said, since we're all different.

[CajunPballer]

Even so, eating a diet full of cheeseburgers, sodas, fried chicken, and ice cream (which isn't unrealistic at all for many teenagers) is going to result in more fat gain and a decline in overall well being as opposed to a diet full of chicken, fish, salad and water, even if both diets meet protein needs and have the same amount of calories.

Edit: Tell me that I'm wrong, and I'll tell you that you're full of ****.

I agree. I never said it wouldn't.

[CajunPballer]

Also, remember, there is also no conclusive scientific evidence that more protein than the average person requires (so above like 140g/per day) equals more muscle. There are plenty of studies that say it does, and just as many that say it doesn't. Does it mean bodybuilders don't shoot for 1.5-2.5 grams per lb of bw? Hell no. Because sometimes what works for you isn't what science has said, since we're all different.

Agreed. I have however read some science that does suggest bodybuilders and athletes need more than the average person, but it isn't that significant; in fact, it isn't even over a 1g per lb of bw.

There are also some other health risks associated with that level(bolded) of protein consumption.
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[vabyss]

Damn, beat me to it.

I think the science is there for a calorie=calorie as long as your protein needs are being met, but for me, it doesn't work that way. If I eat 2500 calories of chicken, rice, etc. I feel a lot better and seem to gain better than 2500 calories of fast food. Now, likely, this is a psychological effect, but seeing as how most of us train to feel/look better, I think it's dumb to ignore that aspect.

Also, remember, there is also no conclusive scientific evidence that more protein than the average person requires (so above like 140g/per day) equals more muscle. There are plenty of studies that say it does, and just as many that say it doesn't. Does it mean bodybuilders don't shoot for 1.5-2.5 grams per lb of bw? Hell no. Because sometimes what works for you isn't what science has said, since we're all different.

Indeed. There IS a psychological effect. When your body's nutrition needs are being met and exceeded, every one of it's functions performs optimally...including mood regulation, the quality of your skin, your hair, and your body's ability to fight off disease.

If someone is a pathetic fatty that lives off fast food, smokes 2 packs a day, and drinks themselves into a stupor on a regular basis...the kind of broscience I have seen in this thread would be expected.

But for anyone that's actually serious about getting stronger and looking better, filling your body with synthetic filler is disastrous.

To me it just seems like a bunch of guys too undisciplined to stick to a real diet making up broscience to justify their weakness.

[DMB2012]

Somebody asked about a Dirty bulk diet.


Here was todays meals

Breakfast: Red hot sandwich with extra mayo.

2nd Breakfast: Chicken egg and cheese biscuit from local service station.

Snack: Snickers bar

Lunch: 15 chicken nuggets

Dinner: Footlong hot dog with lots of chili


Post workout: 5 eggs, 2 slices of toast, 2 red hots.




Workout:
3x15 x315 deadlift
tire flip 2x100 yards 300lb tire.

This is "dirty" to me. But, I stand corrected by some of you, Im not downing anyone who clean bulks, Im just saying if your over-all goal is to be a facking monster, its kinda pointless.

[jmanc55]

that sucks

[JohnnyOhhh]

Im just saying if your over-all goal is to be a facking monster, its kinda pointless.

If your definition of a "facking monster" is a fat, unaesthetic eyesore, then yeah, you're right.

[DMB2012]

If your definition of a "facking monster" is a fat, unaesthetic eyesore, then yeah, you're right.

Dude, why are you on my sack? Every post I make, you always try to put me down.


Im fat? Lmfao, ill let you know the next time I want to have a max squat of 180.

[JohnnyOhhh]

Dude, why are you on my sack? Every post I make, you always try to put me down.


Im fat? Lmfao, ill let you know the next time I want to have a max squat of 180.

Because I'm sick of you spouting off your retarded misinformation on this site. I remember when you said the ability to run long distance was genetic and had nothing at all to do with practice.

And you're right, I've got some weak ass lifts. I'm 16...still, my physique beats yours by a long shot. U mad that at 150 I look far better than you do at 240?

[musclefarm]

You're not really suggesting that 2,000 calories from McDonald's is the same as 2,000 calories of chicken breast and vegetables?

Eating clean gives you a healthy glow, improves your mood, and most importantly makes you live longer. There is more reason to do it beyond consuming calories.

^^this

[CajunPballer]

If your definition of a "facking monster" is a fat, unaesthetic eyesore, then yeah, you're right.

Did I really have to post that? Again, I feel that eating healthy IS the best way to go for other health reasons, but there's two sides to a coin.

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[B-ryminD09]

Somebody asked about a Dirty bulk diet.


Here was todays meals

Breakfast: Red hot sandwich with extra mayo.

2nd Breakfast: Chicken egg and cheese biscuit from local service station.

Snack: Snickers bar

Lunch: 15 chicken nuggets

Dinner: Footlong hot dog with lots of chili


Post workout: 5 eggs, 2 slices of toast, 2 red hots.




Workout:
3x15 x315 deadlift
tire flip 2x100 yards 300lb tire.

This is "dirty" to me. But, I stand corrected by some of you, Im not downing anyone who clean bulks, Im just saying if your over-all goal is to be a facking monster, its kinda pointless.

uhhhhm u serious w/ that? u could easily get that many calories from "clean" foods. that looks like what any teen would eat anyway, not someone lookin to get big/lean.

[ewitte]

The irrelavance of clean bulking:

I beleive most of us could agree on the following points, fats do not make you fat, the more you eat the more you grow, right? So, a person does not gain fat by eating fats rather an over-abundance of calories. Therefore, it does not matter if you eat 300 calories of rice cakes or 300 calories of Ice cream, its still 300 calories.

Lol didn't notice I was in the teen section but could tell by reading this. There is more to it than that. The body doesn't function correctly if its not getting the proper nutrition especially if its loaded with artificial chemicals and poisons. The older you get the less crap you can get away with eating.

[EvanByrne]

My view of the reasons for a clean bulk are as follows:


Saturated fats, sodium, sugars, high gi carbs and processed foods aren't good for you. Setting aside the fact that a diet high in these things constitues a perfect scenario for fat gain, your body simply isn't going to be as healthy in if you are eating these things day in and day out. Your body wont be working at max efficency and you won't feel as good.

Clean bulking allows you to gain muscle while gaining minimal or NO fat at all, maintain a great look and be healthier durring the whole process.

Personally I am maintaining my current body fat, and perhaps even dropping it slowly while making very decent gains (in my opinion). My lifts are going up consistently and I feel GREAT all the time.

[JohnnyOhhh]

Personally I am maintaining my current body fat, and perhaps even dropping it slowly while making very decent gains (in my opinion). My lifts are going up consistently and I feel GREAT all the time.

Ditto.

[CajunPballer]

Clean bulking allows you to gain muscle while gaining minimal or NO fat at all, maintain a great look and be healthier durring the whole process.

Again, you can get fat on healthy foods as well. Too much protein will turn into fat, too much "good" carbs will turn into fat.. it's a vicious cycle.

[DMB2012]

Because I'm sick of you spouting off your retarded misinformation on this site. I remember when you said the ability to run long distance was genetic and had nothing at all to do with practice.

And you're right, I've got some weak ass lifts. I'm 16...still, my physique beats yours by a long shot. U mad that at 150 I look far better than you do at 240?

Brb, like I give a dam what other guys think about me.

Brb, If misinformation has put 350 lbs on my squat in two years, i think i'll go with it.

Brb, wait...................................I almost cared.


You, physique, LMFAO.

[Mixed_Breed]

Clean bulking is good for athletes tho

[Saint_James]

Somebody asked about a Dirty bulk diet.


Here was todays meals

Breakfast: Red hot sandwich with extra mayo.

2nd Breakfast: Chicken egg and cheese biscuit from local service station.

Snack: Snickers bar

Lunch: 15 chicken nuggets

Dinner: Footlong hot dog with lots of chili


Post workout: 5 eggs, 2 slices of toast, 2 red hots.

That really isnt that many calories....

Just balance it out a bit and its ****ing fine. 70 clean/30 dirty, or 80/20. Keeps you sane and keeps your heart healthy.

Personally i have never had sucess with clean bulking because i can never find that right calorie amount that only makes me gain a pound a month.

Its so much easier and sane to do a normal bulk and strive for 4 lbs a month.

[Gmedlo]

ITT people with a few years of lifting experience claim to not be able to gain mass effectively by clean bulking or eating slightly over maintenance, while the truth is that they are probably delusional about the magnitude of the gains they made while eating dirty, not realizing that they've probably never gained more than 10-15 pounds of muscle/year, regardless of what type of bulk they were doing. After you've cut/bulked a few times you begin to realize how slowly you actually gain muscle mass...

[JohnnyOhhh]

Brb, like I give a dam what other guys think about me.

Brb, If misinformation has put 350 lbs on my squat in two years, i think i'll go with it.

Brb, wait...................................I almost cared.


You, physique, LMFAO.

How about you post a pic of yourself without a shirt on brah?

[EvanByrne]

[Ozzy_Wolverine]

It really does depend on the person. Though dirty bulking obviously has bad effects on your health, it is a good way for people with a ridiculous metabolism to bulk. I, unfortunately, must eat very clean food at a caloric excess to gain weight without gaining fat. If i eat those same amount of calories in fast food, i will become jabba the hut. I have tired the dirty bulk method while tracking my calories and went up to 200lbs from 170lbs in 3 months. Lost the fat, now im eating the same amount of calories, but from clean food, and have gained about 5 lbs in 2 months. Its all dependent on the person.

[xf220]

The only thing you want to avoid is clogging your arteries, or deficiencies in vitamins and minerals. So at the very least, take a multi vitamin, and eat Bananas. Their potassium will balance out the sodium.

[JohnnyOhhh]

The only thing you want to avoid is clogging your arteries, or deficiencies in vitamins and minerals. So at the very least, take a multi vitamin, and eat Bananas. Their potassium will balance out the sodium.

Please go.

[xf220]

Please go.

Care to explain why you feel that way?

[afranczyk]

Therefore, it does not matter if you eat 300 calories of rice cakes or 300 calories of Ice cream, its still 300 calories.

Having a better idea of how these foods digest. Ie. comparison of short polypeptides, or long polypeptides, simple or complex carbohydrates, or even saturated/unsaturated fats, can actually help you to keep some fat off your body, and in most cases make you more 'healthy'.

The term 'healthy' should be noted as a term without a direct definition. Many people have different suggestions as to what the term means, whether it deals with diet and/or exercise.

So, the only reason healthy foods are considered "healthy" is because they have a lower fat content.

A food may be considered more 'healthy' for a number of reasons; aside from fat/calorie content.

For example, whole grain foods are more healthy for a number of reasons:
They are not processed as much.
They contain more natural vitamins and minerals (processed white grains can lose vitamins and minerals, which are synthetically added back, or not).
They contain soluble and non-soluble fiber.

This is where we must focus, the bulkie must eat, and an advanced trainee like myself must eat moar. The clean bulk does not suffice most lifters with enough calories to sustain and build muscle. The person in question thinks they are consuming plenty of calories, when in fact they are not, due to the low caloric densities of the foods they are eating.

The term clean bulk is just as an ambiguous term as healthy. So using both in the context of this post will indeed cause several different opinions to surface.

For example, clean bulk could mean, eat more nutritious, full foods, to reduce fat gain, and to stay away from fast foods, saturated fats, and simple carbohydrates (with exceptions).

Or it could mean, manage calories that avoid fats in general, as you suggest.

[bigboybigtits]

well yes you can bulk on pure ****. but the only point of eating healthy is to make sure you get all your protein and nutrients in you calorie limit.

[JohnnyOhhh]

Care to explain why you feel that way?

Sodium does not clog arteries, nor does potassium "balance" out sodium. Studies are showing that nutrients multi's have greatly reduced effects as opposed to nutrients from real food.

Now would you please go?

[xf220]

Sodium does not clog arteries, nor does potassium "balance" out sodium. Studies are showing that nutrients multi's have greatly reduced effects as opposed to nutrients from real food.

Now would you please go?

I didn't say sodium clogs arteries, and yes potassium helps negate the effects of a high sodium diet.

Don't tell me you are smarter than the Harvard Medical School...
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/...ntid=100238578

So, now you can leave squirt.