Pec Deck- Machine: Good or BAd?

[RealXtrav]

Ok, I received an article awhile ago from Men's Health Mag complaining about the machines to avoid in the weight room. The one that struck me the most was the Pec Deck. Here's what they claimed.

Men Healths:
"The myth: It’s a super safe and very effective way to work your chest muscles.

The truth: This apparatus, also called the chest fly machine, can overstretch the front of your shoulder and cause the muscles around the rear of your shoulder to stiffen. The result: Doing this movement frequently can lead to shoulder impingement syndrome.

The alternatives: Forget the machine, and stick with exercises such as the pushup, dumbbell bench press and dumbbell incline press; they’re easier on your shoulders and the best way to build your chest overall. In fact, Truman State University researchers found that pectoral muscles are activated for 23 percent less time during the chest fly, compared with the bench press."

Now I know there some idiots writers along their staff but the research the University conducted on the chest fly made me think twice about using this machine. But I already know its not good for me anyways because I have loose ligaments and also I'm a big multi-joint power lifter. I just want to gain knowledge on this issue.

Here is the link to the research journal of Truman State U. Its only the abstract, purchase it if you like, then post it here lol. --> http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Ab..._Major.34.aspx

WHat are your thoughts and experiences letting your clients use this equipment?

[SerpentHearted]

Absolute garbage IMO.

I mean... you could pick out virtually any exercise or piece of equipment and say "under certain conditions it might have some negative effects" such as if you use bad technique or have some condition that contra-indicates it.... it doesn't make it a "bad" exercise though.

As for it over stretching the front of the shoulder... most people these days seem to have forward shoulder posture to begin with so stretching them is hardly a bad thing. The stiffening of the rear shoulder muscles? I can't see why this would happen but again, do some stretching like you're supposed to after training!

[ExtremeEnigma]

be more specific. is it "good or bad" for what? good for a powerlifter or client looking to lose weight? no. good for a bodybuilder looking to isolate pecs? sure.

[askthetrainer]

Depends which model you're talking about







There are so many different kinds... I personally like the old school one although I wouldn't have clients do it...

Just like any machine, the user's form & purpose will determine whether it is "good" or "bad"

[tovlakas]

The pec deck is an extremely unnatural position for your arms to be performing a lift in, and I have destroyed my shoulders for weeks trying to use one. It does put a strain on your shoulder that it's not meant to withstand effectively, because the bottom line is, you never have your hand in that position in nature and press towards the center like that.

Our bodies have evolved over millions of years to take on the stresses of every day movements, not weird artificial ones that have no place in everyday life. In the vein of behind-the-head pulldowns and presses, I'd definitely recommend to stay away from this machine, there's no reason you can't do db/cable flys instead and hit the muscle in a similar, but more stable and functional fashion.

[jphalflion]

I personally don't like the pec deck machine but that doesn't mean it's bad. It will work for some and not for others. You can get injured using any machine if you don't use it properly.

[Rap_Rocky]

It's cool in my book, definitely not something I do on the regular. That magazine is bull though. Perfect example: few months back, they had that same article, saying upright rows should be avoided because they can cause shoulder impingement syndrome - in that same issue, they have a "fat blaster workout program" for readers, using upright rows on shoulder day...wtf?

[tovlakas]

It's cool in my book, definitely not something I do on the regular. That magazine is bull though. Perfect example: few months back, they had that same article, saying upright rows should be avoided because they can cause shoulder impingement syndrome - in that same issue, they have a "fat blaster workout program" for readers, using upright rows on shoulder day...wtf?

You have to keep in mind different authors write different articles, and may have differing (even opposing) points of view.

jphalflion: yes, any machine can injure you when used improperly; the pec deck can injure you regardless of if it's used properly or improperly. And it's an idiotic movement. It's like doing squats with your feet pointing out and your knees pointing in, in an attempt to "hit it at a different angle". It's unnatural and your body isn't designed to move like that, and thus you're setting yourself up for injury. There's no justification with the plethora of legitimate chest exercises available for anyone to risk using the machine IMO.

[RusSuco]

IMO what they are saying cuold be very valid statemet. When it comes to your sholder joint it as everyone knows a ball and socket joint but when you look at te joint it it such a shallow ball and socket joint that the muscles around it are the main reason it stays in place. Now when it come to the anterior portion of the shoulder it is very lax when compared to the rear so movements liek the peck dec could easily over stretch this lax area which could easily lead to shoulder impingment.

Russuco

[ROCK91X]

hey what about the butterfly pec machine in which your movement is like the dumbell flies.........i have heard dat it strains your biceps and destroys the chance of developing lower bicep heads is it true??...........i have done flat dumbell flies and ya if i go heavy it feels on the biceps

[henmaniac87]

hey what about the butterfly pec machine in which your movement is like the dumbell flies.........i have heard dat it strains your biceps and destroys the chance of developing lower bicep heads is it true??...........i have done flat dumbell flies and ya if i go heavy it feels on the biceps

U serious?

[henmaniac87]

I personally like using the Pec Deck, its not something that frequently gets put in my routines but I use it as a peak contraction exercise from time to time, it and cable flys have really improved my chest 'split', really nice separation now.

I find Pec Deck to be most effective when I go heavier with it, unlike every other fly type movement. 3 sets of 6-10 reps on this really pump up my chest.

[rbnsong]

i use pec dec all the time, but recently just switched to doing cable crossovers

[ROCK91X]

U serious?

well i dont know exactly i was askin if it effects biceps.........i had read it some were long time ago 7 to 8 months back when i started workin out.............m not tellin m askin if it really effects d biceps?........i had read dat cablecrossover do more damage and dumbell fly also to a lesser extent

[henmaniac87]

well i dont know exactly i was askin if it effects biceps.........i had read it some were long time ago 7 to 8 months back when i started workin out.............m not tellin m askin if it really effects d biceps?........i had read dat cablecrossover do more damage and dumbell fly also to a lesser extent

Unless youre doing a ridiculous amount of flys each week they will not lead you to overworking your biceps. Try using less weight, I rarely feel flys in my biceps, you should be feeling it in your chest for the most part, as it is an isolation exercise.

I usually keep my flys in a 10-12 rep range.

[seabass08]

They don't use the "Pec Dec" machine, or almost any machines for that matter, in military boot camp or football camp. Those two endeavors get men into the fittest, strongest condition of any other thing in our society in the shortest, most efficient time.

Lesson?

The more we drift away from the techinques, equpiment and exercises that have been proven to work for decades, the worse it is.

Big, compound free weight exercises. Intense sets. Short rest periods. Clean diet. Eat. Sleep. It's worked for decades for boot camp and football camp. We need to drift towards those techniques, not towards more cables, pulleys, pads, seats, screws and bolts. Seeing how many machines can be shoved into one building shouldn't make for a gym, but it often does. My gym has more seated calf raise machines than squat racks (3 to 1). Pathetic.

[TheManofSteel]

Men Healths:
"The myth: It’s a super safe and very effective way to work your chest muscles.

The truth: This apparatus, also called the chest fly machine, can overstretch the front of your shoulder and cause the muscles around the rear of your shoulder to stiffen. The result: Doing this movement frequently can lead to shoulder impingement syndrome.

The alternatives: Forget the machine, and stick with exercises such as the pushup, dumbbell bench press and dumbbell incline press; they’re easier on your shoulders and the best way to build your chest overall. In fact, Truman State University researchers found that pectoral muscles are activated for 23 percent less time during the chest fly, compared with the bench press."

I agree with other posters. Too much of one thing, doing incorrect form, too much weight for one's strength or a combination of any of these is bad on ANY exercise or machine.

With that being said, I don't use the pec dec often. I chose to set a cable apparatus up to do flyes seated or standing. The force/strain can be a bit much for the shoulders in any variation of the flye however. I am just not too comfortable with that machine at greater weights. As previously stated, as an isolation movement it's great; love it to end a workout.

What bothers me most is the recommendation for other exercises, does this not stand out to anyone else?
If I replace a fly movement shouldn't I replace it with another fly movement not a pushing movement as those "recommended"....

[ctgblue]

IMO a terrible machine that torques the arm back and strains the hell out of the shoulder joint.



IMO a fine machine that simulates a regular fly and is fine if used with the proper weight at the proper height

[MikeCaulo]

Yeah numerous studies and health professionals have shown that this position will put your shoulder in a horrible position and cause impingement, However on the flip side doing rear delt flys can be extremely beneficial.

[Ronin4help]

A quality, well built pec deck is a good machine. It has its benefits for both the pecs and the rear delts. I like them.