How do you Bench Press? Tate Press or Elbows Out?

[DASBUNKER]

cant find a definitive answer and since most of you older folks should be more experienced... in theory at least, i decided to ask you for the absolute truth.

Is the correct form like dave tate? (im sure you've seen the video) or with your elbows out?
is the tate form just for powerlifting? which one builds bigger strongher pecs?

i have long arms and ive been having trouble getting down the tate form, but if thats the right way ill keep trying to improve it.

[ironwill2008]

Flared elbows will eventually kill your shoulders. So, it's not a question of anything other than what's the best method to use that will cause the least damage to shoulders. That method is with your elbows tucked.

[DASBUNKER]

makes sense from that stand point.. though ive never hurt my shoulders benching with shoulders flare out i do feel the strain on them when all i rather concentrate on BP is the pecs..


but what about muscle development? does tucking youre elbows really hits pecs the best?

[ironwill2008]

makes sense from that stand point.. though ive never hurt my shoulders benching with shoulders flare out i do feel the strain on them when all i rather concentrate on BP is the pecs..

You've never hurt your shoulders..............yet. Do you want to be able to say that 15 years from now?

but what about muscle development? does tucking youre elbows really hits pecs the best?

There isn't a definite answer to that question, since there are so many variables involved. But if you work your chest consistently, you'll grow. If you blow out a RC by using flared elbows, you may never be able to work your chest, or any other upper-body part properly again. In that condition you definitely will not experience muscle development.

This site is littered with daily posts of guys with severe shoulder problems. Don't be one of them. Be in this for the long haul.

[DASBUNKER]

thanks for the input, will give it a go tomorrow.. did some Close grip BP with elbows tucked the other day and worked quite well.. but first time i tried regular with elbows in i hurt myself lol.. didnt get the form right and i was kinda doing tricep extensions -_- ugh.. plus im not moving any more weight with soulders flare out :S

[ironwill2008]

thanks for the input, will give it a go tomorrow.. did some Close grip BP with elbows tucked the other day and worked quite well.. but first time i tried regular with elbows in i hurt myself lol.. didnt get the form right and i was kinda doing tricep extensions -_- ugh.. plus im not moving any more weight with soulders flare out :S

If you're changing your form, work with light weight until you've got your form down, and then gradually work back up.

[Old Bob]

I'm certainly no bench press expert but I haven't even had a twinge from my 58 year old shoulders since I started taking these guy's advice a few months ago and I now bench more weight than I have in 20 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUcjO...eature=related

Old Bob

[DASBUNKER]

i think my main flaw was trying to keep my wrists straight through the whole thing.. straight wrists+long arms=bar below ribs..

im just starting to workout again so im down to only benching 95lbs. (shoulder flare out).. but the time i did close grip BP was with 65lbs.. i thought it was pretty good considering my arms were already tired and that it was close grip (harder right?)... so im hoping i can do atleast 105lbs benching right..

[XX400EX]

I voted other since i now do db benches. Barbell bench started to bother my rotators to much no matter the grip or elbows in or out. With the db's my body can adjust as needed more and the pain is much much less.

[DASBUNKER]

I'm certainly no bench press expert but I haven't even had a twinge from my 58 year old shoulders since I started taking these guy's advice a few months ago and I now bench more weight than I have in 20 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUcjO...eature=related

Old Bob

thanks i remember watching this vid a couple of weeks ago but idk what happened that i didnt pay much attention.. maybe it was because my other computer had no sound lol

[DASBUNKER]

I voted other since i now do db benches. Barbell bench started to bother my rotators to much no matter the grip or elbows in or out. With the db's my body can adjust as needed more and the pain is much much less.

ive been using DBs more lately.. but just because i couldnt get the form right on BB.. that has to end soon since my gym DBs only go to 50lbs. lol (no planet fitness) and thats not even the worst

inb4igottaGTFOofthere

[ironwill2008]

I'm certainly no bench press expert but I haven't even had a twinge from my 58 year old shoulders since I started taking these guy's advice a few months ago and I now bench more weight than I have in 20 years.



Old Bob

^^^^This is probably the BEST bench press vid on the 'netz. Do it like this, and you'll be good to go.

[DASBUNKER]

my PC had no sound and i thought that vid was another flare-out-shoulders-how-to-BP lol looks like they go more in depth in the whole thing than the tate vid, interesting.. thanks guys tomorrow is chest day.. will let you know how it went, hope i dont get back to post an "i hurt myself BPing" thread lol

[ocn2000]

Elbows in is;

1.safer for the shoulders long term
2.allows for more weight to be used

Elbows out is;

1.more for bodybuilding
2.is purported to involve the pes more and the deltoids less (see "Vince Gironda neck press" or "Guillotine press")
3.puts some people shoulders in a mechanically disadvantaged position leading to pain/injury

The above vid was very good. Pretty much breaks down everything from start to finish. The hand off is important and well as bench support heights. If you have to "reach up" to the bar (if you have short arms) you protract the shoulders and they are not as stable. I have seen many people "pull something" unracking and re racking bars onto supports that are too high for them.

[DASBUNKER]

Elbows in is;

1.safer for the shoulders long term
2.allows for more weight to be used

Elbows out is;

1.more for bodybuilding
2.is purported to involve the pes more and the deltoids less (see "Vince Gironda neck press" or "Guillotine press")
3.puts some people shoulders in a mechanically disadvantaged position leading to pain/injury

i thought elbows in worked delts less.. also point 1 for elbows out you mean it works them the best as in you get better development with shoulder out? mmmhmhhhh

[BrotherWolf]

^^^^This is probably the BEST bench press vid on the 'netz. Do it like this, and you'll be good to go.

No doubt .. one of the best video very clear
He does forgets to cover a few things... how you push with your feet, the grip and stance

[pointreyes]

No doubt .. one of the best video very clear
He does forgets to cover a few things... how you push with your feet, the grip and stance

I agree - great video, the breaking apart the bar was something I just read last week. Another thing I read recently and tried helped me gain 10+ lbs on my bench. When pressing the weight up remember that you are not pressing the weight from your chest, instead you are pushing the floor away from the bar. For some odd reason, that really seemed to help me out.

[GreenWave1]

You've never hurt your shoulders..............yet. Do you want to be able to say that 15 years from now?



There isn't a definite answer to that question, since there are so many variables involved. But if you work your chest consistently, you'll grow. If you blow out a RC by using flared elbows, you may never be able to work your chest, or any other upper-body part properly again. In that condition you definitely will not experience muscle development.

This site is littered with daily posts of guys with severe shoulder problems. Don't be one of them. Be in this for the long haul.

^^^This. I got lucky in that when I hurt my RC, it wasn't serious (still took a couple of months to heal completely). I changed my form and haven't had an issue since. Weight is going up, chest is growing.

[boathead]

when people say "shoulders", i guess they mean rotator cuff, as opposed to delts. yes, an extreme flare of the elbows will stress the RC, but why must it be extreme? how about, say a 45 degree angle, as opposed to a full flare, where you have 90 degrees, and the bar is being pressed to the neck. i'm wondering, then, if RC stress is not a function more of grip width, together with a smidge of angle.

paradoxically, a PL style puts more emphasis on the shoulders, meaning delts. i switched over to PL several months ago, and get little pec involvement. i had a dialogue with Arlecchino about this, and he stated unequivocally that EMG studies show that with a PL style that the intensity of stress was in the following order:

triceps, far and away
anterior delts second
pecs
lats.

he did not mention RC specifically.

lastly, a tate press has nothing to do with style of bench. it is a specific tricep accessory exercise developed by dave tate.

[Cgb6810]

^^^^This is probably the BEST bench press vid on the 'netz. Do it like this, and you'll be good to go.

Good video. Now I know how bbrs go wrong on the flat bench. Even some pro BBrs warn of the shoulder issues flat BB bench can bring.

My son has some training in PLing and he was trained the same as the video. I always try to isolate the bodypart Im working and that would mean flared elbows on the flat bench. But, it's easy to forget the bench is a compound exercise involving several bodyparts. Ive since moved to DBs and yes, I flare the elbows.

[Cgb6810]

lastly, a tate press has nothing to do with style of bench. it is a specific tricep accessory exercise developed by dave tate.

This looks interesting. Im going to try it out on my next tri workout. Although, it looks like having he dbs slam against your chest might get old after a couple of sets.

[ocn2000]

i thought elbows in worked delts less.. also point 1 for elbows out you mean it works them the best as in you get better development with shoulder out? mmmhmhhhh

Depends on your body shape and form. The goal of flaring the elbows out and bringing the bar higher on the chest, to possibly the neck (guillotine press), was to lessen the load on the delts and use more upper pec.

Some people feel it does just that. Others swear it hits their delts more. How strong each of those muscle groups are, relative to each other, and how well co-ordinated your lifting is will play a big role as well.

You have to try each version and see how it fits you, depending on what your goals and injury risk tolerence are.

[DASBUNKER]

lol'd @ my ignorance on the tate press..


well today did chest.. atleast this time i didnt hurt myself trying to tuck my elbows in lol. but still couldnt get it 100% right.. i felt stronger with a CGBP again :S.. i had grip just outside shoulder width but idk i couldnt fully tuck'd em in and felt some strain on left shoulder. will try again next week.

[cory2731]

This looks interesting. Im going to try it out on my next tri workout. Although, it looks like having he dbs slam against your chest might get old after a couple of sets.

correctly done the DBs shouldnt touch the chest at all....this keeps the muscles engaged the entire duration of the exercise.

[ocn2000]

correctly done the DBs shouldnt touch the chest at all....this keeps the muscles engaged the entire duration of the exercise.

I have noticed that on several videos. It really just a single arm dumbell extension bringing the dumbell across the body and not pointing the elbow up.
I have done these, single arm without slamming the bell into my chest.

[groink]

when people say "shoulders", i guess they mean rotator cuff, as opposed to delts. yes, an extreme flare of the elbows will stress the RC, but why must it be extreme? how about, say a 45 degree angle, as opposed to a full flare, where you have 90 degrees, and the bar is being pressed to the neck. i'm wondering, then, if RC stress is not a function more of grip width, together with a smidge of angle.

paradoxically, a PL style puts more emphasis on the shoulders, meaning delts. i switched over to PL several months ago, and get little pec involvement. i had a dialogue with Arlecchino about this, and he stated unequivocally that EMG studies show that with a PL style that the intensity of stress was in the following order:

triceps, far and away
anterior delts second
pecs
lats.

he did not mention RC specifically.

lastly, a tate press has nothing to do with style of bench. it is a specific tricep accessory exercise developed by dave tate.

I've been doing those for over ten years....this "tate" guy owes me money

As far as the bench press vid...started off OK, but then he began overcomplicating things to sound like an "expert"

[BuckSpin]

Found on "another" site as a question posted to Jim Wendler:

TM: I rarely bench wide anymore. I'm basically shoulder width or about 14-inches. I know this compromises my max strength but it feels way easier on my shoulder. What do you do?

JW: Well, I'm with you on this one. I made the switch to all close-grip pressing and have had no problems. It's better to bench a few pounds less over 20 years than bench big once and have the rest of your life limited to dumbbells, machines, or nothing at all.

Most people who do wide grip benching and switch to a closer press will have an initial drop off in strength. But over time, you'll build it back up. And I think this is a small price to pay for a lifetime of healthy bench pressing (and any pressing).

There are a select few people who can press wide for a long period of time (without a bench shirt) but these people are a rare breed. It's best to learn from those that have come before you and have suffered shoulder injuries. And don't forget, a bad shoulder will limit your squatting, too.

Bottom line: stick with the closer grip.