cant find a definitive answer and since most of you older folks should be more experienced... in theory at least, i decided to ask you for the absolute truth.
Is the correct form like dave tate? (im sure you've seen the video) or with your elbows out?
is the tate form just for powerlifting? which one builds bigger strongher pecs?
i have long arms and ive been having trouble getting down the tate form, but if thats the right way ill keep trying to improve it.
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View Poll Results: How do you Bench?
- Voters
- 33. You may not vote on this poll
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Tate Press.
24 72.73% -
Shoulders out.
5 15.15% -
Other.
4 12.12%
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03-15-2010, 02:10 PM #1
How do you Bench Press? Tate Press or Elbows Out?
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03-15-2010, 02:14 PM #2
Flared elbows will eventually kill your shoulders. So, it's not a question of anything other than what's the best method to use that will cause the least damage to shoulders. That method is with your elbows tucked.
No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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03-15-2010, 02:23 PM #3
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03-15-2010, 02:31 PM #4
You've never hurt your shoulders..............yet. Do you want to be able to say that 15 years from now?
but what about muscle development? does tucking youre elbows really hits pecs the best?
This site is littered with daily posts of guys with severe shoulder problems. Don't be one of them. Be in this for the long haul.No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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03-15-2010, 02:36 PM #5
thanks for the input, will give it a go tomorrow.. did some Close grip BP with elbows tucked the other day and worked quite well.. but first time i tried regular with elbows in i hurt myself lol.. didnt get the form right and i was kinda doing tricep extensions -_- ugh.. plus im not moving any more weight with soulders flare out :S
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03-15-2010, 02:41 PM #6No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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03-15-2010, 02:47 PM #7
- Join Date: Aug 2007
- Location: Tallahassee, Florida, United States
- Age: 72
- Posts: 840
- Rep Power: 640
I'm certainly no bench press expert but I haven't even had a twinge from my 58 year old shoulders since I started taking these guy's advice a few months ago and I now bench more weight than I have in 20 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUcjO...eature=related
Old BobGetting Old Ain't For Sissys... ;)
Eat to Live... Don't Live to Eat!!!
1951 Body by Gold's Gym and a LOT of Blood, Sweat, and Tears...
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03-15-2010, 02:48 PM #8
i think my main flaw was trying to keep my wrists straight through the whole thing.. straight wrists+long arms=bar below ribs..
im just starting to workout again so im down to only benching 95lbs. (shoulder flare out).. but the time i did close grip BP was with 65lbs.. i thought it was pretty good considering my arms were already tired and that it was close grip (harder right?)... so im hoping i can do atleast 105lbs benching right..
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03-15-2010, 02:52 PM #9
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03-15-2010, 02:53 PM #10
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03-15-2010, 02:56 PM #11
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03-15-2010, 02:57 PM #12No brain, no gain.
"The fitness and nutrition world is a breeding ground for obsessive-compulsive behavior. The irony is that many of the things people worry about have no impact on results either way, and therefore aren't worth an ounce of concern."--Alan Aragon
Where the mind goes, the body follows.
Ironwill Gym:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=629719403&postcount=3388
Ironwill2008 Journal:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=157459343&p=1145168733
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03-15-2010, 03:10 PM #13
my PC had no sound and i thought that vid was another flare-out-shoulders-how-to-BP lol looks like they go more in depth in the whole thing than the tate vid, interesting.. thanks guys tomorrow is chest day.. will let you know how it went, hope i dont get back to post an "i hurt myself BPing" thread lol
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03-15-2010, 06:32 PM #14
- Join Date: Feb 2010
- Location: Tomball, Texas, United States
- Age: 52
- Posts: 236
- Rep Power: 185
Elbows in is;
1.safer for the shoulders long term
2.allows for more weight to be used
Elbows out is;
1.more for bodybuilding
2.is purported to involve the pes more and the deltoids less (see "Vince Gironda neck press" or "Guillotine press")
3.puts some people shoulders in a mechanically disadvantaged position leading to pain/injury
The above vid was very good. Pretty much breaks down everything from start to finish. The hand off is important and well as bench support heights. If you have to "reach up" to the bar (if you have short arms) you protract the shoulders and they are not as stable. I have seen many people "pull something" unracking and re racking bars onto supports that are too high for them.Last edited by ocn2000; 03-15-2010 at 06:42 PM.
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03-15-2010, 06:43 PM #15
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03-15-2010, 09:59 PM #16
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03-15-2010, 11:27 PM #17
- Join Date: Nov 2009
- Location: Dallas, Oregon, United States
- Age: 59
- Posts: 477
- Rep Power: 331
I agree - great video, the breaking apart the bar was something I just read last week. Another thing I read recently and tried helped me gain 10+ lbs on my bench. When pressing the weight up remember that you are not pressing the weight from your chest, instead you are pushing the floor away from the bar. For some odd reason, that really seemed to help me out.
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03-16-2010, 05:17 AM #18
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03-16-2010, 05:49 AM #19
- Join Date: Jun 2007
- Location: New York, United States
- Posts: 6,196
- Rep Power: 14834
when people say "shoulders", i guess they mean rotator cuff, as opposed to delts. yes, an extreme flare of the elbows will stress the RC, but why must it be extreme? how about, say a 45 degree angle, as opposed to a full flare, where you have 90 degrees, and the bar is being pressed to the neck. i'm wondering, then, if RC stress is not a function more of grip width, together with a smidge of angle.
paradoxically, a PL style puts more emphasis on the shoulders, meaning delts. i switched over to PL several months ago, and get little pec involvement. i had a dialogue with Arlecchino about this, and he stated unequivocally that EMG studies show that with a PL style that the intensity of stress was in the following order:
triceps, far and away
anterior delts second
pecs
lats.
he did not mention RC specifically.
lastly, a tate press has nothing to do with style of bench. it is a specific tricep accessory exercise developed by dave tate.
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03-16-2010, 07:52 AM #20
- Join Date: Feb 2004
- Location: Caledonia, Michigan, United States
- Age: 61
- Posts: 408
- Rep Power: 322
Good video. Now I know how bbrs go wrong on the flat bench. Even some pro BBrs warn of the shoulder issues flat BB bench can bring.
My son has some training in PLing and he was trained the same as the video. I always try to isolate the bodypart Im working and that would mean flared elbows on the flat bench. But, it's easy to forget the bench is a compound exercise involving several bodyparts. Ive since moved to DBs and yes, I flare the elbows.If this were easy, everyone would do it!
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03-16-2010, 07:55 AM #21
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03-16-2010, 12:46 PM #22
- Join Date: Feb 2010
- Location: Tomball, Texas, United States
- Age: 52
- Posts: 236
- Rep Power: 185
Depends on your body shape and form. The goal of flaring the elbows out and bringing the bar higher on the chest, to possibly the neck (guillotine press), was to lessen the load on the delts and use more upper pec.
Some people feel it does just that. Others swear it hits their delts more. How strong each of those muscle groups are, relative to each other, and how well co-ordinated your lifting is will play a big role as well.
You have to try each version and see how it fits you, depending on what your goals and injury risk tolerence are.
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03-16-2010, 04:53 PM #23
lol'd @ my ignorance on the tate press..
well today did chest.. atleast this time i didnt hurt myself trying to tuck my elbows in lol. but still couldnt get it 100% right.. i felt stronger with a CGBP again :S.. i had grip just outside shoulder width but idk i couldnt fully tuck'd em in and felt some strain on left shoulder. will try again next week.
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03-16-2010, 05:55 PM #24
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03-16-2010, 06:46 PM #25
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03-17-2010, 04:31 PM #26
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03-18-2010, 04:56 AM #27
- Join Date: May 2008
- Location: Union, Maine, United States
- Age: 57
- Posts: 7,601
- Rep Power: 10498
Found on "another" site as a question posted to Jim Wendler:
TM: I rarely bench wide anymore. I'm basically shoulder width or about 14-inches. I know this compromises my max strength but it feels way easier on my shoulder. What do you do?
JW: Well, I'm with you on this one. I made the switch to all close-grip pressing and have had no problems. It's better to bench a few pounds less over 20 years than bench big once and have the rest of your life limited to dumbbells, machines, or nothing at all.
Most people who do wide grip benching and switch to a closer press will have an initial drop off in strength. But over time, you'll build it back up. And I think this is a small price to pay for a lifetime of healthy bench pressing (and any pressing).
There are a select few people who can press wide for a long period of time (without a bench shirt) but these people are a rare breed. It's best to learn from those that have come before you and have suffered shoulder injuries. And don't forget, a bad shoulder will limit your squatting, too.
Bottom line: stick with the closer grip."Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure"
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