Thoughts on Westside's principles, the conjugated method and training approaches

[offroadxj9]

awesome post, and thanks so much for clearing up some stuff for us. ive followed westside for awhile now, and im still learning new stuff everyday

that said, i do have one question... i have been using 40% plus bands or chains for my DE bench and have had great success (recently hit an all time PR 475 raw bench). have i been doing it wrong this whole time? your outline, and the articles ive read actually say nothing about accommodated resistance for DE bench. this one point has me VERY confused right now

[DJSTARER]

Thanks for the info. reps

Can you recommend some books for the unaware like myself?
Also is this a decent template to start at when I'm waiting on the book? http://bodybuilding.fitness.com/powe...-template.html

my knowledge comes not from reading, but lifting and listening from others.

[BEhave]

Question. what rep range would you stay in for the bench accessory exercises (the heavyish barbell movements)?

[isaku900]

Question. what rep range would you stay in for the bench accessory exercises (the heavyish barbell movements)?

I usually do 3x5 or 5x5 with my 1st accessory.

other assistance work is usually done 4x8-12.

though that varies depending on workload, and how I feel after my main lifts

[BEhave]

Maybe you can help me with this. I was doing close grip bench as my ME for 3 weeks. Hit prs every week. Finished off with 245x1 as a new max on the close grip on the 3rd week. Prior to that cycle, the week before it began, I hit an easy 250 using my regular grip on bench. Well after the close grip cycle, I deloaded for about 4-5 days without working out at all. I come back, using floor press as my ME exercise for 2 weeks. I end up only getting 230x1 on that (shows something about my lockout strength). Ddn't deload however, and then the following week, I try my regular grip bench only to find that I struggle doing one rep with 240. WTF? Any idea on what might be wrong? Does this tend to happen when you don;t perform your regular grip bench for too long?

[isaku900]

Maybe you can help me with this. I was doing close grip bench as my ME for 3 weeks. Hit prs every week. Finished off with 245x1 as a new max on the close grip on the 3rd week. Prior to that cycle, the week before it began, I hit an easy 250 using my regular grip on bench. Well after the close grip cycle, I deloaded for about 4-5 days without working out at all. I come back, using floor press as my ME exercise for 2 weeks. I end up only getting 230x1 on that (shows something about my lockout strength). Ddn't deload however, and then the following week, I try my regular grip bench only to find that I struggle doing one rep with 240. WTF? Any idea on what might be wrong? Does this tend to happen when you don;t perform your regular grip bench for too long?

there could be a million factors. Are you not practicing good technique on your DE bench day?

[Iceman1800]

Excellent post

[BEhave]

there could be a million factors. Are you not practicing good technique on your DE bench day?

Maybe its because I've been doing RE days only as opposed to DE days. The only people that have access to chains is the varsity players at my school since its only in the varsity gym which can't be accessed by non varsity athletes. This could be the issue. I heard speed work is useless unless you have bands/chains.

I have been doing Db benching of different kinds on my RE days. I'm pretty much doing defrancos ws4sb

[offroadxj9]

awesome post, and thanks so much for clearing up some stuff for us. ive followed westside for awhile now, and im still learning new stuff everyday

that said, i do have one question... i have been using 40% plus bands or chains for my DE bench and have had great success (recently hit an all time PR 475 raw bench). have i been doing it wrong this whole time? your outline, and the articles ive read actually say nothing about accommodated resistance for DE bench. this one point has me VERY confused right now

could you touch on this for me please... im all eff'd up about this

[isaku900]

Maybe its because I've been doing RE days only as opposed to DE days. The only people that have access to chains is the varsity players at my school since its only in the varsity gym which can't be accessed by non varsity athletes. This could be the issue. I heard speed work is useless unless you have bands/chains.

I have been doing Db benching of different kinds on my RE days. I'm pretty much doing defrancos ws4sb

DB benching is not and does not simulate barbell benching. If you are not using a barbell to bench with, you should not be surprised that your form is inconsistent with a barbell.

I said it a few times in my writeup, ME and DE days are designed to work together, the reason that you can do variants on an ME day is because on your DE day you get in both your form work and your volume.

You need to do a DE bench day, or at the very least an RE bench day with a barbell.

awesome post, and thanks so much for clearing up some stuff for us. ive followed westside for awhile now, and im still learning new stuff everyday

that said, i do have one question... i have been using 40% plus bands or chains for my DE bench and have had great success (recently hit an all time PR 475 raw bench). have i been doing it wrong this whole time? your outline, and the articles ive read actually say nothing about accommodated resistance for DE bench. this one point has me VERY confused right now

I'm really not sure what you're asking? 40% + bands or chains is fine. the bands or the chains are the accommodating resistance.

A pendulum wave is a method of ramping your loading to increase your volume and ultimately your lift. You start at the low end, in your case 40%, then increase to 45% then to 50% all with consistent tension or chain weight. Then increase/change the accommodation and start your wave over again at 40%.

an example is:

DE Bench
wave 1, week 1: 50%+doubled minis
wave 1, week 2: 55%+doubled minis
wave 1, week 3: 60%+doubled minis
wave 1, week 4: RE bench (deload)
wave 2, week 1: 50%+60lbs chain
wave 2, week 2: 55%+60lbs chain
wave 2, week 3: 60%+60lbs chain
wave 2, week 4: deload
wave 3, week 1: 50%+doubled monster minis
wave 3, week 2: 55%+doubled monster minis
wave 3, week 3: 60%+doubled monster minis
wave 3, week 4: deload

[scott_donald]

great writeup...

saved to my computer...

[offroadxj9]

great, thank you for clearing that up for me

"you must spread some reps around before giving to this guy again"

[isaku900]

great writeup...

saved to my computer...

I sincerely hope that you learn something from it and stop giving bad advice in this subforum.

further, can you please take your rep back, delete this post and not address me in the future?

the only reason you aren't on ignore is that you're a mod and the software will not allow me to ignore you.

[DJSTARER]

the reason that you can do variants on an ME day is because on your DE day you get in both your form work and your volume.

You need to do a DE bench day, or at the very least an RE bench day with a barbell.

key

[BEhave]

key

So the RE bench day with the barbell, would I do a bench variant, or work with my regular grip?

I am so trying to find a way to get boards. Can hardware stores make them for you? (yes lazy)

Another question, where would you suggest putting my high intensity shoulder work? On RE day or ME day?

[TKD]

Not sure if this has been covered here, but what do you think about the importance of the assistance exercises for ME days?

Lets look at ME bench day: Do you typically do assistance exercises is order of most muscle used in that lift; triceps, lats then delts.


What kind of effect do you consider this to have towards strength development for the given day?

[TKD]

I sincerely hope that you learn something from it and stop giving bad advice in this subforum.

further, can you please take your rep back, delete this post and not address me in the future?

the only reason you aren't on ignore is that you're a mod and the software will not allow me to ignore you.

??? unaware.

[Fluster]

Not sure if this has been covered here, but what do you think about the importance of the assistance exercises for ME days?

Lets look at ME bench day: Do you typically do assistance exercises is order of most muscle used in that lift; triceps, lats then delts.


What kind of effect do you consider this to have towards strength development for the given day?

I don't think it's been covered here specifically, but in case you haven't seen it, there is a Wild Iron Video Q&A thread provided by Isaku/Koyongi/sifr et al's gym. They record it most Sundays and encourage people to ask specific questions in that thread if they'd like them included in that format.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=118146941

There is an awful lot of information in there and it can be hard to find specific questions without looking through them all. Luckily, more Nitroboie provided an index of most of the frequently asked questions. I suspect this may get updated when I'm very bored or if anyone else gets a chance.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...&postcount=375

[scott_donald]

I sincerely hope that you learn something from it and stop giving bad advice in this subforum.

further, can you please take your rep back, delete this post and not address me in the future?

the only reason you aren't on ignore is that you're a mod and the software will not allow me to ignore you.

i already knew all of it... used westside for years prior....

cant take rep back...

will not delete the post...

and no i will not, not address you in the future...

enough said on matter...

[isaku900]

??? unaware.

I do not and will not respect Scott, he is in my opinion a fraud. His status as a moderator makes it so that the software of forum will not allow me to place him on ignore, so i asked him not to address me, he will not, so we are unfortunately at an impasse.

One that I can only rectify by withdrawing my contribution to this board.

[HumanHorrorFilm]

i already knew all of it... used westside for years prior....

cant take rep back...

will not delete the post...

and no i will not, not address you in the future...

enough said on matter...

[isaku900]

as the topic starter, I would like to request that this thread be either locked or deleted.

thank you.

[TKD]

Open again for business

*Please keep this one on topic*

[Doollas]

I've read versions of the template that note there should be a high intensity/low volume accessory day and vice versa. In that template (one of the old ones written by Tate) the author said he liked doing the high intensity accessory stuff on dynamic day, and the higher volume stuff on max effort day, which is what I have generally done.

What are your thoughts on this...do you/Wild Iron practice high intensity/low volume and high volume/low intensity days, and if so, do you stick them to a particular DE/ME day? Thanks great info.

[isaku900]

I've read versions of the template that note there should be a high intensity/low volume accessory day and vice versa. In that template (one of the old ones written by Tate) the author said he liked doing the high intensity accessory stuff on dynamic day, and the higher volume stuff on max effort day, which is what I have generally done.

What are your thoughts on this...do you/Wild Iron practice high intensity/low volume and high volume/low intensity days, and if so, do you stick them to a particular DE/ME day? Thanks great info.

first off, its not a template. treating westside like a template with plug and play exercises will not get you where you want to be.

that said, we don't adhere strictly to high intensity accessories on one day and lower intensity accessories on another, but listening to your body will kinda sort it out per your individual strengths and weaknesses.

[BEhave]

By heavyish barbell movement, what rep range do you mean?

[isaku900]

By heavyish barbell movement, what rep range do you mean?

5 reps usually, though it'll vary from 3-8 depending on the movement.

[PhreEkGarden]

Bumping this I guess....

What kind of stuff do you do on those deload days?

i usually rotate between deadlifts, squats and GMs on my ME day. but i'll stagger it, due to squatting every week on DE squat day and with consideration to a meet.

so a typical setup 12 weeks out from a meet will look like this:

ME Lower
wave 1, week 1: deadlift variant
wave 1, week 2: Good morning variant
wave 1, week 3: deadlift variant
wave 1, week 4: deload
wave 2, week 1: Good Morning variant
wave 2, week 2: squat-close to comp style (6 weeks out)
wave 2, week 3: deadlift variant
wave 2, week 4: deload
wave 3, week 1: deadlift-usually opener
wave 3, week 2: squat-suit test (opener, 2 weeks out)
wave 3 week 3: good morning-3-5rm usually lighter to not affect recovery before a meet.
wave 3, week 4: deload----> meet

[UHCougar05]

Bumping this I guess....

What kind of stuff do you do on those deload days?

I'm not Bill, but I normally do just accessory work or maybe light squats or benches. Maybe some prehab movements, foam rolling, etc.

[koyongi]

Bumping this I guess....

What kind of stuff do you do on those deload days?

I'm not Bill either.
But, I can promise his answer would be: Crossfit.