Healthcare Costs Around the World

[floods]

How many vaccines did you guys export last year as aid third world counties?? Or is that another question that you are too "intelligent" to answer??

How does paying premiums to insurance companies relate to the Government funded exportation of aid to the 3rd world?

I'm having trouble understanding that one

[LordDarwin]

How many vaccines did you guys export last year as aid third world counties?? Or is that another question that you are too "intelligent" to answer??

Oh, I see.
So intelligence now: Having an intimate knowledge about the inner workings of a particular part of the UK's healthcare system.

You got me!
I don't have a link to a webpage containing that information so I'm not intelligent! lulz!
You do make me laugh.

How does paying premiums to insurance companies relate to the Government funded exportation of aid to the 3rd world?

I'm having trouble understanding that one

It doesn't.
He's throwing his toys out the pram because he got called on his sh*t for once.

[amtharin]

How does paying premiums to insurance companies relate to the Government funded exportation of aid to the 3rd world?

I'm having trouble understanding that one

Our free market system (not insurance companies specifically) in general creates a situation where we can provide aid to other countries. I'm not just talking about government aid, but also aid from the private sector.

[pearljamfan]

As a Canadian, I can tell you you do not want UHC. It is a system that takes away your individual right of choice.

they don't have private hospitals in canada??

they have in all UHC in europe

[Resonator]

So to sum this up. People against health care reform are

1) claiming we have the best/most advanced in the world - despite some evidence to the contrary, while providing no proof of there own.

2) Assuming, again with not even an attempt to claim why, that the high costs have a correlation to these unspecific advancements

3) Claiming a factually falsifiable claim that it's torts causing the problem

Nice.

Not all of us, or at least not me.

[floods]

So to sum this up. People against health care reform are

1) claiming we have the best/most advanced in the world - despite some evidence to the contrary, while providing no proof of there own.

2) Assuming, again with not even an attempt to claim why, that the high costs have a correlation to these unspecific advancements

3) Claiming a factually falsifiable claim that it's torts causing the problem

Nice.

Im taking a torts unit this semester and without meaning to patronize you, negligence claim losses are factored into the premiums insurance companies change.

People generally never litigate unless the defendant is insured.

So for every successful litigation against them, the insurance company passes on that loss to consumers through higher premiums. Not to mention the money they spend defending actions which they might end up winning.

Whilst it might not be the leading cause, America is the most litigious country in the world, and these negligence claims do contribute to the cost of insurance.

[SkinnyDip]

I think a lot of the charts are biased based on the collection of data. Because in America we include infant mortality figured in our life expectancy unlike some of your European countries. Additionally, with our freedom and prosperity includes some dangerous occurrences such as car accidents.

Also, in most of Europe, babies born before 26 weeks are not considered "live births."

Switzerland only counts babies at least 11.8 inches as being born alive.

In Canada, Austria and Germany, only babies weighing a pound or more are considered live births. A main cause of infant mortality is prematurity and low birth-weight.

France, Hong Kong and Japan don't count infant deaths that occur in the 24 hours after birth. Almost half of infant deaths in the U.S. occur in the first day.

[frankenstein]

Thanks for the anecdotal assertion.

It means nothing!

Why didn't you just type: "Really, think about, watch the news... It's obviously the US!"

No. Give me facts or leave.

---
FYI, your little friend, is claiming to know for a fact it's the US! Guesswork by watching the news, doesn't = fact. IT'S STILL JUST AN OPINION FOOL!

Opinion? No. Informed from reading medical studies over the last 15 years of my life? Yes indeed. The vast majority of research is done in the USA. I keep up on this sort of thing. I read too much for my own good on a variety of topics, one of which is medical research. The far majority of work and results comes from the US. By the way, I do not support our current health care system. Just so you know. I look for intellectual honesty, which is why I'm calling out a bull****ter like yourself.

Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick. Here's an article I found in 10 seconds of Google searching, from the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/business/05scene.html

Poor U.S. Scores in Health Care Don�t Measure Nobels and Innovation

By TYLER COWEN
Published: October 5, 2006

Advocates of national health insurance cite an apparently devastating fact: the United States spends more of its gross domestic product on medical care than any nation in the world, yet Americans do not live longer than Western Europeans or Japanese. More Americans lack insurance coverage as well. It is no wonder that so many people demand reform.

But the American health care system may be performing better than it seems at first glance. When it comes to medical innovation, the United States is the world leader. In the last 10 years, for instance, 12 Nobel Prizes in medicine have gone to American-born scientists working in the United States, 3 have gone to foreign-born scientists working in the United States, and just 7 have gone to researchers outside the country.

The six most important medical innovations of the last 25 years, according to a 2001 poll of physicians, were magnetic resonance imaging and computed tomography (CT scan); ACE inhibitors, used in the treatment of hypertension and congestive heart failure; balloon angioplasty; statins to lower cholesterol levels; mammography; and coronary artery bypass grafts. Balloon angioplasty came from Europe, four innovations on the list were developed in American hospitals or by American companies (although statins were based on earlier Japanese research), and mammography was first developed in Germany and then improved in the United States. Even when the initial research is done overseas, the American system leads in converting new ideas into workable commercial technologies.

In real terms, spending on American biomedical research has doubled since 1994. By 2003, spending was up to $94.3 billion (there is no comparable number for Europe), with 57 percent of that coming from private industry. The National Institutes of Health�s current annual research budget is $28 billion, All European Union governments, in contrast, spent $3.7 billion in 2000, and since that time, Europe has not narrowed the research and development gap. America spends more on research and development over all and on drugs in particular, even though the United States has a smaller population than the core European Union countries. From 1989 to 2002, four times as much money was invested in private biotechnology companies in America than in Europe.

Dr. Thomas Boehm of Jerini, a biomedical research company in Berlin, titled his article in The Journal of Medical Marketing in 2005 �How Can We Explain the American Dominance in Biomedical Research and Development?� (ostina.org/downloads/pdfs/bridgesvol7_BoehmArticle.pdf) Dr. Boehm argues that the research environment in the United States, compared with Europe, is wealthier, more competitive, more meritocratic and more tolerant of waste and chaos. He argues that these features lead to more medical discoveries. About 400,000 European researchers are living in the United States, usually for superior financial compensation and research facilities.

This innovation-rich environment stems from the money spent on American health care and also from the richer and more competitive American universities. The American government could use its size, or use the law, to bargain down health care prices, as many European governments have done. In the short run, this would save money but in the longer run it would cost lives.

Medical innovations improve health and life expectancy in all wealthy countries, not just in the United States. That is one reason American citizens do not live longer. Furthermore, the lucrative United States health care market enhances research and development abroad and not just at home.

The gains from medical innovations are high. For instance, increases in life expectancy resulting from better treatment of cardiovascular disease from 1970 to 1990 have been conservatively estimated as bringing benefits worth more than $500 billion a year. And that is just for the United States.

The American system also produces benefits that are hard to find in the numbers. The economist Arnold Kling in his �Crisis of Abundance: Rethinking How We Pay for Health Care� (Cato Institute, 2006) (catostore.org/index.asp?fa=ProductDetails&method=cats&scid=37&pi d=1441301) argues that the expected life span need increase by only about half a year for the extra American health care spending to be cost-effective over a 20-year period. Given that many Americans walk less and eat less healthy food than most Europeans, the longevity boost from health care in the United States may be real but swamped by the results of poor lifestyle choices. In the meantime, the extra money Americans spend to treat allergy symptoms, pain, depression and discomfort contributes to personal happiness.

Compared with Europe, the American system involves more tests, more procedures and more visits with specialists. Sick people receive more momentary comforts and also the sense that everything possible has been done. This feeling is of value to the family even when the patient does not improve. In contrast, European countries have not created comparably high expectations about the medical process. If we count �giving people what they would want, if they knew it was there� as one measure of medical value, the American system looks better.

American health care has many problems. Health insurance is linked too tightly to employment, and too many people cannot afford insurance. Insurance companies put too much energy into avoiding payments. Personal medical records are kept on paper rather than in accessible electronic fashion. Emergency rooms are not always well suited to serve as last-resort health care for the poor. Most fundamentally, the lack of good measures of health care quality makes it hard to identify and eliminate waste.

These problems should be addressed, but it would be hasty to conclude that the United States should move closer to European health care institutions. The American health care system, high expenditures and all, is driving innovation for the entire world.

[amtharin]

I just want to post this again for the "intelligent" lorddarwin.

I also want to point out that the article goes into Nobel Prize winners. When I post that the "Intelligent" lorddarwin told me that wasnt good enough so...




http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/business/05scene.html

When it comes to medical innovation, the United States is the world leader...

[LordDarwin]

Thanks for the link lads.

Looks like you were right amtharin, I can't say I'm that surprised though, that the US is leading the way.

[amtharin]

Thanks for the link lads.

Looks like you were right amtharin, I can't say I'm that surprised though, that the US is leading the way.

You give up way to easy. I would never let a NYTimes article of all things convince me. You either 1) Knew it was America or 2) give way too much credit to the times.

Hopefully your new found revelation will make you realize why there are so many in this country who don't want a government run system.

[chicago5790]

Rofl. I love people like this.

Dude shut the **** up im sick of reading your god damn idiotic elitist posts, where you claim to be so much smarter then everyone. you dont know **** you ****ing socialist. Your the most UnAmerican ***got i've ever encountered. People pay large amounts of money just to live here ILLEGALLY. This country is the best in the world. Less polluted on a whole, the most intelligent people, technology, medicine, doctors etc. If you talked like you did in Iran theyd execute you. You wouldnt last 5 minutes in Latin America, most parts of Europe or Africa. Your so coddeled as an American you dont even know. **** thats seems "normal" to you. Like not waiting 2 minutes for your cheeseburger, or 1 hour for your teeth cleaning, or just whiping your ass with toliet paper is uncommon in most parts of the world. My family didnt have running water, or electricity. You'd throw up if you had to drink wine crushed by feet. You couldnt do it. Youre an annoying little ***got bitch. Shut the **** up.

USA > rest of the world in ANYTHING.

Why did I rant and rave during this post? To prove a point. Most people dont know **** about the rest of the world. They have no idea what its like to live in most places. They just assume its like "here", America. Well let me tell you, its not. And these socialists are going to ruin a good thing we have with healthcare and **** up our economy. Obama cannot PROVE if his bill will generate money, hes just ASSUMING it will. He hasnt even read the god damn bill. use your harvard education and read the damn bill. im all for people having health care. but why make EVERYONE get healthcare. if they have it, ok great. if they dont, then give them a third option besides work, private companies. but you cannot force everyone to pay for everyone elses healthcare. it doesnt make sense. hes going to ruin this country and bankrupt us. china is just waiting.

- someone who regrets his vote of Obama.

[LordDarwin]

You give up way to easy. I would never let a NYTimes article of all things convince me. You either 1) Knew it was America or 2) give way too much credit to the times.

Hopefully your new found revelation will make you realize why there are so many in this country who don't want a government run system.

No, you were right. I take my hat off to you.

Who would'a thought, the old US of A being number one!

[LordDarwin]

USA > rest of the world in ANYTHING.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the US are better at making an English Breakfast, Fish & Chips and Shepherds Pie!

Screw you!

UK > USA

[frankenstein]

Dude shut the **** up im sick of reading your god damn idiotic elitist posts, where you claim to be so much smarter then everyone. you dont know **** you ****ing socialist. Your the most UnAmerican ***got i've ever encountered. People pay large amounts of money just to live here ILLEGALLY. This country is the best in the world. Less polluted on a whole, the most intelligent people, technology, medicine, doctors etc. If you talked like you did in Iran theyd execute you. You wouldnt last 5 minutes in Latin America, most parts of Europe or Africa. Your so coddeled as an American you dont even know. **** thats seems "normal" to you. Like not waiting 2 minutes for your cheeseburger, or 1 hour for your teeth cleaning, or just whiping your ass with toliet paper is uncommon in most parts of the world. My family didnt have running water, or electricity. You'd throw up if you had to drink wine crushed by feet. You couldnt do it. Youre an annoying little ***got bitch. Shut the **** up.

USA > rest of the world in ANYTHING.

Why did I rant and rave during this post? To prove a point. Most people dont know **** about the rest of the world. They have no idea what its like to live in most places. They just assume its like "here", America. Well let me tell you, its not. And these socialists are going to ruin a good thing we have with healthcare and **** up our economy. Obama cannot PROVE if his bill will generate money, hes just ASSUMING it will. He hasnt even read the god damn bill. use your harvard education and read the damn bill. im all for people having health care. but why make EVERYONE get healthcare. if they have it, ok great. if they dont, then give them a third option besides work, private companies. but you cannot force everyone to pay for everyone elses healthcare. it doesnt make sense. hes going to ruin this country and bankrupt us. china is just waiting.

- someone who regrets his vote of Obama.

while you have some salient points, may I suggest decaf?

[amtharin]

Oh yeah, I'm sure the US are better at making an English Breakfast, Fish & Chips and Shepherds Pie!

Screw you!

UK > USA

You got proof of that??

[LordDarwin]

You got proof of that??

(Missing fried tomatoes and french toast ^ Along with optional fried banana)


I rest my case!

[amtharin]

I mean like actually proof. Something that compares the English Breakfast, Fish & Chips and Shepherds Pie from england to those of every other country in the world??

[LordDarwin]

I mean like actually proof. Something that compares the English Breakfast, Fish & Chips and Shepherds Pie from england to those of every other country in the world??

Now it's your turn to prove your stance.


You must have a stance?

[Stizzel]

Oh yeah, I'm sure the US are better at making an English Breakfast, Fish & Chips and Shepherds Pie!

Screw you!

UK > USA

We probably do. I've heard some horror stories of food in the UK. It can't be that bad though, probably just really boring (like british comedy). Yes sarcasim.

I like the shows Chef Ramsey is on though, and he seems to know his stuff. Hopefully he's not actually australian, I can't really tell the difference just by the accent.

[amtharin]

Now it's your turn to prove your stance.


You must have a stance?

I absolutely do. America FTW!!

[LordDarwin]

I absolutely do. America FTW!!

Lulz!

Sausages, Bacon, Black pudding, fries tomatoes, mushrooms, baked beans, french toast, fried eggs + cereal + tea + orange juice >>>> A McDonalds EggMcMuffin meal & black coffee.

[LordDarwin]

We probably do.

Considering they're British dishes I doubt it.

Doubling the portion sizes and drowning everything in fat doesn't constitute a better meal.

I've heard some horror stories of food in the UK. It can't be that bad though, probably just really boring (like british comedy). Yes sarcasim.

I like the shows Chef Ramsey is on though, and he seems to know his stuff. Hopefully he's not actually australian, I can't really tell the difference just by the accent.

Nah, he's British even though he's got the language of an Australian.

[Stizzel]

Lulz!

Sausages, Bacon, Black pudding, fries tomatoes, mushrooms, baked beans, french toast, fried eggs + cereal + tea + orange juice >>>> A McDonalds EggMcMuffin meal & black coffee.

Hmm, bacon became an American breakfast thing as a marketing experiment that unfortunately worked. Wonder if its the same over there.

My family has a german background and they liked to do a lot of german food, so our breakfast was usually some kind of thick, black bread soaked in the blood of our enemies. Delicious. Sometimes my grandmother would also make a fruit stew concoction using the tears of the women and children.

Considering they're British dishes I doubt it.

Doubling the portion sizes and drowning everything in fat doesn't constitute a better meal.

Nah, he's British even though he's got the language of an Australian.

Real American food is probably a lot better than you think. It is a great fusion of a lot of different kinds of cooking. I honestly think American obesity can be attributed more to a sedentary life style + all the preservatives in the fast food/frozen food we eat than large portions or high fat content from traditional cooking.

[LordDarwin]

My family has a german background and they liked to do a lot of german food, so our breakfast was usually some kind of thick, black bread soaked in the blood of our enemies. Delicious. Sometimes my grandmother would also make a fruit stew concoction using the tears of the women and children.

I wouldn't be surprised. A lot of American food has been heavily the influenced by traditional German foods (the hamburger, frankfurter, and other heavily meat orientated dishes) and the same is true for England, although we've kind of fused that with the Danish traditional foods and our own culture. My own family has germanic origins but mainly Danish, so I know where you're coming from with the blood bread, it's my particular favorite.

Real American food is probably a lot better than you think.

I wasn't being serious about the fast food thing. I'm sure most American food is amazing considering most of it's British in origin.

[Stizzel]

I wasn't being serious about the fast food thing. I'm sure most American food is amazing considering most of it's British in origin.

Pffft. A lot of europeans seem to think american food = fast food. And it really is in a sense, since no one really cooks anymore. I've started cooking for my family though just because I enjoy it.

torrenting random cook books ftw.

I hope to get good enough to make it onto one of Ramsey's shows so he can cuss me out.

[j.hov85]

It doesn't help that we have a very corrupt Government.

I wonder if that factors in the US taxpayer dollars that paid for Medicare and Medicaid?

[H0334]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but the USA also has the highest obesity rates of any country.

1) USA: 30.6 percent
2) Mexico: 24.2 percent
3) UK: 23 percent
4) Slovakia: 22.4 percent
5) Greece: 21.9 percent
6) Australia: 21.7 percent
7) New Zealand: 20.9 percent
8) Hungary: 18.8 percent
9) Luxembourg: 18.4 percent
10) Czech Rep: 14.8 percent
11) Canada: 14.3 percent
12) Spain: 13.1 percent
13) Ireland: 13 percent
14) Germany: 12.9 percent
15) Portugal: 12.8 percent
16) Finland: 12.8 percent
17) Iceland: 12.4 percent
18) Turkey: 12 percent
19) Belgium: 11.7 percent
20) Netherlands: 10 percent

Japan's is 3.3%. The US has more obese people than every single one of these countries has PEOPLE with the exception of Mexico. How does this play into those numbers?

[hooked4life]

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but the USA also has the highest obesity rates of any country.

Not any country, there are a lot of small ones with higher.

[Stizzel]

(Missing fried tomatoes and french toast ^ Along with optional fried banana)


I rest my case!

Now that I can actually see those pictures, I have to say baked beans for breakfast is a little disturbing. But I can't stomach baked beans at any time.

Also, those black cakes are highly suspect.

But if I can eat balut, I'll probably try just about anything.