The 80/20 Rule for Lifting

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[vincewchan]

Definitely Sticky worthy! I used to over think a lot of things, but now I just focus on the 20% that makes 80% of the difference!

[acubed123]

Wow. Thank you for this.

[rob112]

Wish I would have read this sooner! I keep feeling the more I read the more confusing it is. Awesome thread.

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[riongardner]

I really liked this sticky. It really hit the nail on the head for me. I have that thirst for knowledge described in the post, however, I have been finding myself caught up in the details. This is just what I needed to read to put things in perspective.

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[Milkisforbabies]

I agree with most every thing said here. I find that sticking to a routine for at least eight weeks to be effective in getting the most out of it. I also find that the big three lifts are pretty essential to building your base and Chest, Back, Legs are more important and should get top priority over all other muscle groups when your just beginning to train.

[ninadetox]

Wow do needed that

Think, But Don't Over-Analyze

When you are enthusiastic about bodybuilding, or any sport or hobby for that matter, you want to know everything you can about it. You want to know what's the best exercise, what rep range will give you an edge, how to best structure your split so that you eek out every gain that you can. This thirst for knowledge is a healthy one - and is a sign that you are thinking, that you care.

But it can also hold you back. With the wealth of information available, especially in the internet age, it's all too easy to get caught up in the minutia, to start wondering if this or that exercise will pack on the size better, whether XX supplement will be the difference between success and failure. The next thing you know, you're spending too much on supplements, switching up your routine every other week to use that new magic routine you read about, or getting discouraged over results that don't seem up to par with the promises of the muscle mags.

The 80/20 Rule

Dr. Joseph Juran, working on quality and management principles in the 1930's and 1940's observed a universal principle that he called the "vital few and trivial many", in which 20 percent of something is responsible for 80 percent of the results. This became known as the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. This rule means that in anything 20% is vital and 80% is trivial. For example, Juran observed that 20% of the people owned 80% of the wealth. Or that 20% of defects caused 80% of the problems. You can apply this rule to almost anything.

The value of the 80/20 rule is that it reminds you to focus on the 20% that matters. You should identify and focus on these things. So in bodybuilding, what are they? I would say that the 20% that matters includes:

• Researching & following a good, fundamental, bodybuilding program. (Not a perfect one, it doesn't exist).
• Putting in hard work in the gym, consistently, over a long period of time.
• Following the rule of progression, and ensure that over time you are lifting more weight, more reps, or more sets.
• Having good nutrition. Eating enough good stuff, and not too much bad stuff over the course of a day.
• Getting adequate recovery.
• Adjusting your plan periodically, based on your results and your experiences.

Which basically means: Train. Eat. Rest. Repeat. Week in and week out. Focusing on the basics will give you 80% of your results.


So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:

• Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
• What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
• I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
• What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
• If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
• How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
• Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?

Etc. Etc. Etc. Honestly, that stuff doesn't make a difference. Or rather, if it does it makes a relatively small difference (20%); or only makes a difference for a relatively small few who are at the limits of their physical development. For most of us average Joes, it just doesn't matter! Sure, if you have a wrist issue, EZ curls may bump into that 20% of things that matter, but in general it doesn't make that much of a difference.

The muscle mags would like to convince you different, since they want you to continuously tune in to find out if you're doing everything right. If you're "in the know" about the latest "hollywood workout". Whether you're missing a miracle supplement that just got invented in a secret Swiss lab.

That way lies madness, my friends.


Objective Evidence

So how do we know this is true? Well, first of all look at the wide variety of workout programs, splits, exercise selection, training frequency, and equipment recommendations from various top bodybuilders over the years. Do they all agree? No. Do they recommend all the same things? Don't think so. Do they all train the same way? Nope. But it's not the 20% they disagree on, it's the 80%. Which stands to reason, since the 80% only makes a small difference, and most of that is individual anyway. What's right for one person is not always right for another.

But they all agree on the value of the big, compound movements. They all preach eating enough, eating right, getting enough protein, and having intensity in the gym. They all agree that results take hard work and consistency and a balanced workout routine. They agree on the 20%.

As further evidence that sometimes the small things don't matter: how often have you seen some dipstick in the gym using terrible form doing nothing but crappy curls and yet having jacked arms? It happens. Sure, he might get injured periodically. Sure, he might have no calves. But when it comes to those arms, he's doing at least 20% of things right.


Final Thoughts (Cliffs)

So what do you take away from all that? It's simple: do your homework and spend your time and effort on the 20% of the details that matter - that's Thinking. Don't waste your time sweating the 80% of the trivial details that make little or no difference - that's over-analyzing.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, and you should figure out what those "20%" things are for yourself by reading and thinking. But once you do, focus on that and don't let the "80%" of minutia derail you from what really matters.


.

[allonwatson]

Very nice thread.

[SoccerMuscle5]

I like the point about following a "good routine" instead of a "perfect" one. Very important! There is no such thing as a "perfect" routine because everyone's body is different and we all have different body needs and capabilities. Dialing in to what your body needs is necessary for each person individually. Great post StickyMaker

[lVlacDonald]

Interesting

[scobo]

Makes sense

[mymirrinpen]

great post OP

[GregSuperstar8]

I agree wwith eeverythinh&everybody

What's the purpose of bb.com then?






















Now I remember!






























80 % supps sales and 20 % Lulz...

[RGNxSUPREME]

All of vox's topics are amazing. It's safe to admit that I am a total newb and after the past 3 weeks of fumbling around, pencil/keyboarding pushing and excel I was already getting tired of setting up an exact routine. After finally reading SOLID posts like this it is all beginning to make sense. I'm gonna do it right. I've read and read these stickey's and I'm finally heading in the right direction. Congrats Vox. You saved another newb!

[azxangeles]

Thanks bro i appreciate this info

[jendzel]

Another great thread! Just the reminder I needed after wasting all my time at work lurking these forums for trivial answers to trivial questions. Fundamentals. Fundamentals. Fundamentals

[SteeltownKid]

Think, But Don't Over-Analyze

When you are enthusiastic about bodybuilding, or any sport or hobby for that matter, you want to know everything you can about it. You want to know what's the best exercise, what rep range will give you an edge, how to best structure your split so that you eek out every gain that you can. This thirst for knowledge is a healthy one - and is a sign that you are thinking, that you care.

But it can also hold you back. With the wealth of information available, especially in the internet age, it's all too easy to get caught up in the minutia, to start wondering if this or that exercise will pack on the size better, whether XX supplement will be the difference between success and failure. The next thing you know, you're spending too much on supplements, switching up your routine every other week to use that new magic routine you read about, or getting discouraged over results that don't seem up to par with the promises of the muscle mags.

The 80/20 Rule

Dr. Joseph Juran, working on quality and management principles in the 1930's and 1940's observed a universal principle that he called the "vital few and trivial many", in which 20 percent of something is responsible for 80 percent of the results. This became known as the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. This rule means that in anything 20% is vital and 80% is trivial. For example, Juran observed that 20% of the people owned 80% of the wealth. Or that 20% of defects caused 80% of the problems. You can apply this rule to almost anything.

The value of the 80/20 rule is that it reminds you to focus on the 20% that matters. You should identify and focus on these things. So in bodybuilding, what are they? I would say that the 20% that matters includes:

• Researching & following a good, fundamental, bodybuilding program. (Not a perfect one, it doesn't exist).
• Putting in hard work in the gym, consistently, over a long period of time.
• Following the rule of progression, and ensure that over time you are lifting more weight, more reps, or more sets.
• Having good nutrition. Eating enough good stuff, and not too much bad stuff over the course of a day.
• Getting adequate recovery.
• Adjusting your plan periodically, based on your results and your experiences.

Which basically means: Train. Eat. Rest. Repeat. Week in and week out. Focusing on the basics will give you 80% of your results.


So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:

• Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
• What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
• I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
• What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
• If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
• How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
• Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?

Etc. Etc. Etc. Honestly, that stuff doesn't make a difference. Or rather, if it does it makes a relatively small difference (20%); or only makes a difference for a relatively small few who are at the limits of their physical development. For most of us average Joes, it just doesn't matter! Sure, if you have a wrist issue, EZ curls may bump into that 20% of things that matter, but in general it doesn't make that much of a difference.

The muscle mags would like to convince you different, since they want you to continuously tune in to find out if you're doing everything right. If you're "in the know" about the latest "hollywood workout". Whether you're missing a miracle supplement that just got invented in a secret Swiss lab.

That way lies madness, my friends.


Objective Evidence

So how do we know this is true? Well, first of all look at the wide variety of workout programs, splits, exercise selection, training frequency, and equipment recommendations from various top bodybuilders over the years. Do they all agree? No. Do they recommend all the same things? Don't think so. Do they all train the same way? Nope. But it's not the 20% they disagree on, it's the 80%. Which stands to reason, since the 80% only makes a small difference, and most of that is individual anyway. What's right for one person is not always right for another.

But they all agree on the value of the big, compound movements. They all preach eating enough, eating right, getting enough protein, and having intensity in the gym. They all agree that results take hard work and consistency and a balanced workout routine. They agree on the 20%.

As further evidence that sometimes the small things don't matter: how often have you seen some dipstick in the gym using terrible form doing nothing but crappy curls and yet having jacked arms? It happens. Sure, he might get injured periodically. Sure, he might have no calves. But when it comes to those arms, he's doing at least 20% of things right.


Final Thoughts (Cliffs)

So what do you take away from all that? It's simple: do your homework and spend your time and effort on the 20% of the details that matter - that's Thinking. Don't waste your time sweating the 80% of the trivial details that make little or no difference - that's over-analyzing.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, and you should figure out what those "20%" things are for yourself by reading and thinking. But once you do, focus on that and don't let the "80%" of minutia derail you from what really matters.


.

Sick post bro, ill def be the first to admit that I over analyze my workouts. I do have a question though. I tend to over analyze how long I should workout compared to how I workout. Sometimes I feel like if I don't lift for an hour and a half, to 2 hours im not going to get results. Am I over analyzing and should stick to 45 minutes to an hour?
-I am getting better gains, but have not seen any significant growth in muscle mass for some time now. Someone suggested that I was working out too long and over conditioning/exhausting my muscles vs getting a solid pump. Let me know what you think.

[tomtrombla]

Think, But Don't Over-Analyze

When you are enthusiastic about bodybuilding, or any sport or hobby for that matter, you want to know everything you can about it. You want to know what's the best exercise, what rep range will give you an edge, how to best structure your split so that you eek out every gain that you can. This thirst for knowledge is a healthy one - and is a sign that you are thinking, that you care.

But it can also hold you back. With the wealth of information available, especially in the internet age, it's all too easy to get caught up in the minutia, to start wondering if this or that exercise will pack on the size better, whether XX supplement will be the difference between success and failure. The next thing you know, you're spending too much on supplements, switching up your routine every other week to use that new magic routine you read about, or getting discouraged over results that don't seem up to par with the promises of the muscle mags.

The 80/20 Rule

Dr. Joseph Juran, working on quality and management principles in the 1930's and 1940's observed a universal principle that he called the "vital few and trivial many", in which 20 percent of something is responsible for 80 percent of the results. This became known as the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. This rule means that in anything 20% is vital and 80% is trivial. For example, Juran observed that 20% of the people owned 80% of the wealth. Or that 20% of defects caused 80% of the problems. You can apply this rule to almost anything.

The value of the 80/20 rule is that it reminds you to focus on the 20% that matters. You should identify and focus on these things. So in bodybuilding, what are they? I would say that the 20% that matters includes:

• Researching & following a good, fundamental, bodybuilding program. (Not a perfect one, it doesn't exist).
• Putting in hard work in the gym, consistently, over a long period of time.
• Following the rule of progression, and ensure that over time you are lifting more weight, more reps, or more sets.
• Having good nutrition. Eating enough good stuff, and not too much bad stuff over the course of a day.
• Getting adequate recovery.
• Adjusting your plan periodically, based on your results and your experiences.

Which basically means: Train. Eat. Rest. Repeat. Week in and week out. Focusing on the basics will give you 80% of your results.


So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:

• Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
• What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
• I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
• What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
• If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
• How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
• Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?

Etc. Etc. Etc. Honestly, that stuff doesn't make a difference. Or rather, if it does it makes a relatively small difference (20%); or only makes a difference for a relatively small few who are at the limits of their physical development. For most of us average Joes, it just doesn't matter! Sure, if you have a wrist issue, EZ curls may bump into that 20% of things that matter, but in general it doesn't make that much of a difference.

The muscle mags would like to convince you different, since they want you to continuously tune in to find out if you're doing everything right. If you're "in the know" about the latest "hollywood workout". Whether you're missing a miracle supplement that just got invented in a secret Swiss lab.

That way lies madness, my friends.


Objective Evidence

So how do we know this is true? Well, first of all look at the wide variety of workout programs, splits, exercise selection, training frequency, and equipment recommendations from various top bodybuilders over the years. Do they all agree? No. Do they recommend all the same things? Don't think so. Do they all train the same way? Nope. But it's not the 20% they disagree on, it's the 80%. Which stands to reason, since the 80% only makes a small difference, and most of that is individual anyway. What's right for one person is not always right for another.

But they all agree on the value of the big, compound movements. They all preach eating enough, eating right, getting enough protein, and having intensity in the gym. They all agree that results take hard work and consistency and a balanced workout routine. They agree on the 20%.

As further evidence that sometimes the small things don't matter: how often have you seen some dipstick in the gym using terrible form doing nothing but crappy curls and yet having jacked arms? It happens. Sure, he might get injured periodically. Sure, he might have no calves. But when it comes to those arms, he's doing at least 20% of things right.


Final Thoughts (Cliffs)

So what do you take away from all that? It's simple: do your homework and spend your time and effort on the 20% of the details that matter - that's Thinking. Don't waste your time sweating the 80% of the trivial details that make little or no difference - that's over-analyzing.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, and you should figure out what those "20%" things are for yourself by reading and thinking. But once you do, focus on that and don't let the "80%" of minutia derail you from what really matters.


.

Learned all about the 80/20 rule here in business school.

[JCOREBODY]

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[SoccerMuscle5]

I like the 80/20 rule. I think this along with some good old fashioned common sense would be a great combo. ;-)

[tiggyd]

Brilliant post mate! I study behaviour and I have found the same is true for any attempt at behaviour change too! When people are suffering from depression or anxiety, my usual advice is to change behaviour, change anything, it doesn't even matter how you do it, just change the behaviour you're having issues with, replace it with something else, anything else and see how you go

[exwhyzee]

Wish I would have read this sooner! I keep feeling the more I read the more confusing it is. Awesome thread.

this is how I feel. Everyone who has a great transformation their routines differ but still have the same main components. Very good read for a noob getting healthy again

[MTII]

Definitely a good rule however I'm not sure it applies to bodybuildin so much as your body is constantly adapting so correct analysis and adjustments must be made as your body changes; the same 20% that got you results in the past won't be the same 20% that does in the future

[Benhouse89]

Love it. simple and effective.

[basieman]

Why is it that you sometimes have to flex your back to take of the pressure of your spine? how does that work