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  1. #151
    Registered User BruinBC's Avatar
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    Great post! As an overanalyzer in general, I can often fall victim to over-thinking things.

  2. #152
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    Great points.

  3. #153
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    Great thread, good read.

  4. #154
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    I love this

    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    Think, But Don't Over-Analyze

    When you are enthusiastic about bodybuilding, or any sport or hobby for that matter, you want to know everything you can about it. You want to know what's the best exercise, what rep range will give you an edge, how to best structure your split so that you eek out every gain that you can. This thirst for knowledge is a healthy one - and is a sign that you are thinking, that you care.

    But it can also hold you back. With the wealth of information available, especially in the internet age, it's all too easy to get caught up in the minutia, to start wondering if this or that exercise will pack on the size better, whether XX supplement will be the difference between success and failure. The next thing you know, you're spending too much on supplements, switching up your routine every other week to use that new magic routine you read about, or getting discouraged over results that don't seem up to par with the promises of the muscle mags.

    The 80/20 Rule

    Dr. Joseph Juran, working on quality and management principles in the 1930's and 1940's observed a universal principle that he called the "vital few and trivial many", in which 20 percent of something is responsible for 80 percent of the results. This became known as the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. This rule means that in anything 20% is vital and 80% is trivial. For example, Juran observed that 20% of the people owned 80% of the wealth. Or that 20% of defects caused 80% of the problems. You can apply this rule to almost anything.

    The value of the 80/20 rule is that it reminds you to focus on the 20% that matters. You should identify and focus on these things. So in bodybuilding, what are they? I would say that the 20% that matters includes:
    • Researching & following a good, fundamental, bodybuilding program. (Not a perfect one, it doesn't exist).
    • Putting in hard work in the gym, consistently, over a long period of time.
    • Following the rule of progression, and ensure that over time you are lifting more weight, more reps, or more sets.
    • Having good nutrition. Eating enough good stuff, and not too much bad stuff over the course of a day.
    • Getting adequate recovery.
    • Adjusting your plan periodically, based on your results and your experiences.
    Which basically means: Train. Eat. Rest. Repeat. Week in and week out. Focusing on the basics will give you 80% of your results.


    So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:
    • Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
    • What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
    • I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
    • What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
    • If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
    • How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
    • Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?

    Etc. Etc. Etc. Honestly, that stuff doesn't make a difference. Or rather, if it does it makes a relatively small difference (20%); or only makes a difference for a relatively small few who are at the limits of their physical development. For most of us average Joes, it just doesn't matter! Sure, if you have a wrist issue, EZ curls may bump into that 20% of things that matter, but in general it doesn't make that much of a difference.

    The muscle mags would like to convince you different, since they want you to continuously tune in to find out if you're doing everything right. If you're "in the know" about the latest "hollywood workout". Whether you're missing a miracle supplement that just got invented in a secret Swiss lab.

    That way lies madness, my friends.


    Objective Evidence

    So how do we know this is true? Well, first of all look at the wide variety of workout programs, splits, exercise selection, training frequency, and equipment recommendations from various top bodybuilders over the years. Do they all agree? No. Do they recommend all the same things? Don't think so. Do they all train the same way? Nope. But it's not the 20% they disagree on, it's the 80%. Which stands to reason, since the 80% only makes a small difference, and most of that is individual anyway. What's right for one person is not always right for another.

    But they all agree on the value of the big, compound movements. They all preach eating enough, eating right, getting enough protein, and having intensity in the gym. They all agree that results take hard work and consistency and a balanced workout routine. They agree on the 20%.

    As further evidence that sometimes the small things don't matter: how often have you seen some dipstick in the gym using terrible form doing nothing but crappy curls and yet having jacked arms? It happens. Sure, he might get injured periodically. Sure, he might have no calves. But when it comes to those arms, he's doing at least 20% of things right.


    Final Thoughts (Cliffs)

    So what do you take away from all that? It's simple: do your homework and spend your time and effort on the 20% of the details that matter - that's Thinking. Don't waste your time sweating the 80% of the trivial details that make little or no difference - that's over-analyzing.

    I don't pretend to have all the answers, and you should figure out what those "20%" things are for yourself by reading and thinking. But once you do, focus on that and don't let the "80%" of minutia derail you from what really matters.


    .
    Friend you have knowledge and wisdom the young ones need to absorb

  5. #155
    Banned Tyciol's Avatar
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    Wow if I could row my bodyweight then how much could I reverse fly?

  6. #156
    Registered User ManiacalMessiah's Avatar
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    As someone new to the this site and a noob in general, thanks for this post. Great read.

  7. #157
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    Smile

    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    Think, But Don't Over-Analyze

    When you are enthusiastic about bodybuilding, or any sport or hobby for that matter, you want to know everything you can about it. You want to know what's the best exercise, what rep range will give you an edge, how to best structure your split so that you eek out every gain that you can. This thirst for knowledge is a healthy one - and is a sign that you are thinking, that you care.

    But it can also hold you back. With the wealth of information available, especially in the internet age, it's all too easy to get caught up in the minutia, to start wondering if this or that exercise will pack on the size better, whether XX supplement will be the difference between success and failure. The next thing you know, you're spending too much on supplements, switching up your routine every other week to use that new magic routine you read about, or getting discouraged over results that don't seem up to par with the promises of the muscle mags.

    The 80/20 Rule

    Dr. Joseph Juran, working on quality and management principles in the 1930's and 1940's observed a universal principle that he called the "vital few and trivial many", in which 20 percent of something is responsible for 80 percent of the results. This became known as the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. This rule means that in anything 20% is vital and 80% is trivial. For example, Juran observed that 20% of the people owned 80% of the wealth. Or that 20% of defects caused 80% of the problems. You can apply this rule to almost anything.

    The value of the 80/20 rule is that it reminds you to focus on the 20% that matters. You should identify and focus on these things. So in bodybuilding, what are they? I would say that the 20% that matters includes:
    • Researching & following a good, fundamental, bodybuilding program. (Not a perfect one, it doesn't exist).
    • Putting in hard work in the gym, consistently, over a long period of time.
    • Following the rule of progression, and ensure that over time you are lifting more weight, more reps, or more sets.
    • Having good nutrition. Eating enough good stuff, and not too much bad stuff over the course of a day.
    • Getting adequate recovery.
    • Adjusting your plan periodically, based on your results and your experiences.
    Which basically means: Train. Eat. Rest. Repeat. Week in and week out. Focusing on the basics will give you 80% of your results.


    So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:
    • Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
    • What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
    • I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
    • What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
    • If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
    • How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
    • Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?

    Etc. Etc. Etc. Honestly, that stuff doesn't make a difference. Or rather, if it does it makes a relatively small difference (20%); or only makes a difference for a relatively small few who are at the limits of their physical development. For most of us average Joes, it just doesn't matter! Sure, if you have a wrist issue, EZ curls may bump into that 20% of things that matter, but in general it doesn't make that much of a difference.

    The muscle mags would like to convince you different, since they want you to continuously tune in to find out if you're doing everything right. If you're "in the know" about the latest "hollywood workout". Whether you're missing a miracle supplement that just got invented in a secret Swiss lab.

    That way lies madness, my friends.


    Objective Evidence

    So how do we know this is true? Well, first of all look at the wide variety of workout programs, splits, exercise selection, training frequency, and equipment recommendations from various top bodybuilders over the years. Do they all agree? No. Do they recommend all the same things? Don't think so. Do they all train the same way? Nope. But it's not the 20% they disagree on, it's the 80%. Which stands to reason, since the 80% only makes a small difference, and most of that is individual anyway. What's right for one person is not always right for another.

    But they all agree on the value of the big, compound movements. They all preach eating enough, eating right, getting enough protein, and having intensity in the gym. They all agree that results take hard work and consistency and a balanced workout routine. They agree on the 20%.

    As further evidence that sometimes the small things don't matter: how often have you seen some dipstick in the gym using terrible form doing nothing but crappy curls and yet having jacked arms? It happens. Sure, he might get injured periodically. Sure, he might have no calves. But when it comes to those arms, he's doing at least 20% of things right.


    Final Thoughts (Cliffs)

    So what do you take away from all that? It's simple: do your homework and spend your time and effort on the 20% of the details that matter - that's Thinking. Don't waste your time sweating the 80% of the trivial details that make little or no difference - that's over-analyzing.

    I don't pretend to have all the answers, and you should figure out what those "20%" things are for yourself by reading and thinking. But once you do, focus on that and don't let the "80%" of minutia derail you from what really matters.


    .
    thanks

  8. #158
    Registered User BuffABF's Avatar
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    I know it has been said many times, but great post. I am also one of those guys who overthinks when in the gym or planning my workouts. Nice eye opener.

  9. #159
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    this is by far the best post on bb.com. if more of the youngsters actually read this thread and understand it and follow it, you don't need to read anything else. period.
    The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

  10. #160
    Registered User matkat's Avatar
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    This rule means that in anything 20% is vital and 80% is trivial. For example, Juran observed that 20% of the people owned 80% of the wealth.

  11. #161
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    Another great post, this is just like a rule I use in business productivity

  12. #162
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    good post.
    -engineering brah-
    ***Canadian Crew***

    Bench 330
    Squat 460
    Deadlift 625

  13. #163
    Registered User BSCBSNRN's Avatar
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    OP, this is so true it hurts. Once again look at life. Look at the boss you have who freaks out over such small trivial things but has no direction or management skills, time management skills, people skills.

    In my line of work it goes this way: If my only abilities are being able to start an IV faster than speed lightening, Able to change dressings with the best aseptic technique ever or have all the drug classes and adverse reactions catalouged in brain like an encyclopedia, I'm obviously missing out on the important 20% of skills which are critical thought, time management skills, people skills, giving a ****...those are the 20%, thats what matters the most.

  14. #164
    The Muscle Daredevil Apacalypto's Avatar
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    You've made my day. The fact that someone on BB.com wrote an article incorporating the Pareto principle and powerlifting is just what I want to hear. The Pareto principle is part of almost every part of our lives, so why not include it in our training routines to enhance our lifts? Great job and keep up the stickies!
    http://www.RapidMuscleRecovery.com - You want me to do what?!

  15. #165
    Nub that reads Stickies joshra's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed this post and I know I over think things a lot too which in the long run could get me caught up.

    Good post, and good job explaining what could have been a very tough idea.

  16. #166
    Registered User AusMoski's Avatar
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    It's threads like these that help all of us understand what it means to be a true athlete

  17. #167
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    Sounds good!

  18. #168
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    nice post love it...

  19. #169
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    god-sent....thanks for the article

    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    Think, But Don't Over-Analyze

    When you are enthusiastic about bodybuilding,

    .

  20. #170
    Just a gym rat TheProgressiveOne's Avatar
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    Another articulate piece mate. You really know how to write these sticky things ay

    Now if only we could get people to actually read these the boards might not be cluttered with so much crap.

    But as they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink.

  21. #171
    Registered User ClerisyBrah's Avatar
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    Very true OP. Good read.

  22. #172
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    I want to be clear and note that I'm not saying people shouldn't be detail oriented. If it helps you keep your "head in the game" and motivates you to track your nutrition closely, then go for it. Nutrition is part of that 20%.

    I'm also not saying that anyone should use the 80/20 rule as an excuse for being lazy with the details, only give 20% effort, or pick 20 out of 100 things to do and forget about the rest.

    What I am saying is that if you stick with the basics, use some common sense, train hard, eat right, progress your weights, and monitor and adjust your plan based on your results, then you don't need to be worrying about the fact that the incline bench in your gym only adjusts in 30 degree increments so you can't set it at exactly 27.5 degrees which someone told you is best.

    You don't have to worry that you're doing Starting Strength and your buddy is doing Bill Pearl's beginner program and you may not get the same gainz.

    You don't have to worry that you missed your Tuesday workout and had to do it on Wednesday instead.

    You don't have to worry that you're doing biceps on back day instead of on chest day.

    You don't have to worry that your bench press max has plateaued for the last two hours.

    You don't have to worry that you heard that Xtreme H^rDcoRe Pig Feet Oil Capsules might give you "50% more growth hormone production".

    You don't have to worry about whether you're doing 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 12 reps or 9 sets of pyramids, etc. etc. etc.


    I see posts on here day in and day out asking "is this better than that" or "how many sets of XX should I do" when the answer to most is: "It Just Doesn't Matter".
    Couldn't agree with you more, focus on what matters the most and forget about all the little stuff. Been working out for over 20 years, but it wasn't until just recently that I started to see some major gains. One reason is that I went back to basics and focused on big compound heavy lifts and eating right. I don't count calories or worry about all the fluff. Just go heavy with good form, eat and rest....

  23. #173
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    Originally Posted by VoxExMachina View Post
    Think, But Don't Over-Analyze

    When you are enthusiastic about bodybuilding, or any sport or hobby for that matter, you want to know everything you can about it. You want to know what's the best exercise, what rep range will give you an edge, how to best structure your split so that you eek out every gain that you can. This thirst for knowledge is a healthy one - and is a sign that you are thinking, that you care.

    But it can also hold you back. With the wealth of information available, especially in the internet age, it's all too easy to get caught up in the minutia, to start wondering if this or that exercise will pack on the size better, whether XX supplement will be the difference between success and failure. The next thing you know, you're spending too much on supplements, switching up your routine every other week to use that new magic routine you read about, or getting discouraged over results that don't seem up to par with the promises of the muscle mags.

    The 80/20 Rule

    Dr. Joseph Juran, working on quality and management principles in the 1930's and 1940's observed a universal principle that he called the "vital few and trivial many", in which 20 percent of something is responsible for 80 percent of the results. This became known as the Pareto Principle, or the 80/20 rule. This rule means that in anything 20% is vital and 80% is trivial. For example, Juran observed that 20% of the people owned 80% of the wealth. Or that 20% of defects caused 80% of the problems. You can apply this rule to almost anything.

    The value of the 80/20 rule is that it reminds you to focus on the 20% that matters. You should identify and focus on these things. So in bodybuilding, what are they? I would say that the 20% that matters includes:
    • Researching & following a good, fundamental, bodybuilding program. (Not a perfect one, it doesn't exist).
    • Putting in hard work in the gym, consistently, over a long period of time.
    • Following the rule of progression, and ensure that over time you are lifting more weight, more reps, or more sets.
    • Having good nutrition. Eating enough good stuff, and not too much bad stuff over the course of a day.
    • Getting adequate recovery.
    • Adjusting your plan periodically, based on your results and your experiences.
    Which basically means: Train. Eat. Rest. Repeat. Week in and week out. Focusing on the basics will give you 80% of your results.


    So if that's the important 20%, what's the 80% that's trivial? Well in my opinion it's details like these:
    • Should I do 3 sets of 8 reps or 5 sets of 10 reps?
    • What's better, 1.25g protein per pound or 1.37g/lb, or 1.5 g/lb.?
    • I'm doing BB curls, should I be doing DB curls or EZ bar curls instead?
    • What's the best angle for incline barbell presses?
    • If I don't get 30g of protein within half an hour after training, is my session wasted?
    • How much should I be lifting for my height / weight?
    • Are DB flyes better than using the Pec Dec?

    Etc. Etc. Etc. Honestly, that stuff doesn't make a difference. Or rather, if it does it makes a relatively small difference (20%); or only makes a difference for a relatively small few who are at the limits of their physical development. For most of us average Joes, it just doesn't matter! Sure, if you have a wrist issue, EZ curls may bump into that 20% of things that matter, but in general it doesn't make that much of a difference.

    The muscle mags would like to convince you different, since they want you to continuously tune in to find out if you're doing everything right. If you're "in the know" about the latest "hollywood workout". Whether you're missing a miracle supplement that just got invented in a secret Swiss lab.

    That way lies madness, my friends.


    Objective Evidence

    So how do we know this is true? Well, first of all look at the wide variety of workout programs, splits, exercise selection, training frequency, and equipment recommendations from various top bodybuilders over the years. Do they all agree? No. Do they recommend all the same things? Don't think so. Do they all train the same way? Nope. But it's not the 20% they disagree on, it's the 80%. Which stands to reason, since the 80% only makes a small difference, and most of that is individual anyway. What's right for one person is not always right for another.

    But they all agree on the value of the big, compound movements. They all preach eating enough, eating right, getting enough protein, and having intensity in the gym. They all agree that results take hard work and consistency and a balanced workout routine. They agree on the 20%.

    As further evidence that sometimes the small things don't matter: how often have you seen some dipstick in the gym using terrible form doing nothing but crappy curls and yet having jacked arms? It happens. Sure, he might get injured periodically. Sure, he might have no calves. But when it comes to those arms, he's doing at least 20% of things right.


    Final Thoughts (Cliffs)

    So what do you take away from all that? It's simple: do your homework and spend your time and effort on the 20% of the details that matter - that's Thinking. Don't waste your time sweating the 80% of the trivial details that make little or no difference - that's over-analyzing.

    I don't pretend to have all the answers, and you should figure out what those "20%" things are for yourself by reading and thinking. But once you do, focus on that and don't let the "80%" of minutia derail you from what really matters.


    .
    Good points listed in this article. However if it was me, I would change that to the 90/10 rule!
    Christian Hagen - http://www.rip****mania.com/
    A true Ripped body and Six pack abs come from good nutrition and exercise, not supplements
    Check my own website: http://www.rip****mania.com/

  24. #174
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    Hi,

    The 80 20 Rule For Lifting BodybuildingThis is gold. Great post.

    Thanks

  25. #175
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    Good read, puts a bit of perspective into it, thanks

  26. #176
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    awesomeness!

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    Originally Posted by .aeterna View Post
    dam straight

    like him, i used to break every little thing down to an spreadsheet. my life was boring and monotonous and sucky



    we all have lives outside of BBing. (at least i hope we all do..)

    r u guys gonna tell me that if you and ur friends or wife or girlfriend r going out to vday dinner, that you are gonna ask the dam waitress for the macro breakdown of your ****in salad?


    living ur life and making minor adjustments in accordance with ur goals (while being happy) is the most important thing..
    "r u guys gonna tell me that if you and ur friends or wife or girlfriend r going out to vday dinner, that you are gonna ask the dam waitress for the macro breakdown of your ****in salad?" ---HA! Good one!
    If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten.

  28. #178
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    Great pots man, so true.

  29. #179
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    Interesting analysis.

  30. #180
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    nothing to add to this. amazing post man.

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