The 80/20 Rule for Lifting

[djansen]

can we sticky this or add to a best of thread please?

[medjen]

What does prostitution have to do with bodybuilding?

It increases testosterone production?

[VoxExMachina]

It increases testosterone production?

Please list your favorite testosterone boosting activities. (Only the best 20%, though).

[-Lucifer]

Please list your favorite testosterone boosting activities. (Only the best 20%, though).

I like deadlifting a bunch of females.

[medjen]

Please list your favorite testosterone boosting activities. (Only the best 20%, though).

The best 20% would not be suitable for an open forum.

Children might see.

[VoxExMachina]

B u m p

[Slow-N-Steady]

I've been reading a few muscle magazines(only because I'm on bedrest, I would not buy them otherwise. lol) and it's interesting how the all the articles are more tailored to the 20% than the other 80%.

Bump.

[MWheatley]

I've been reading a few muscle magazines(only because I'm on bedrest, I would not buy them otherwise. lol) and it's interesting how the all the articles are more tailored to the 20% than the other 80%.

Bump.

You're right, the topics brought up in most muscle mags really are interesting and sometimes informative. Its hard to take in any details you read though because they usually lead to a misconception. While the general idea they present usually hides some great info.

[VoxExMachina]

I've been reading a few muscle magazines(only because I'm on bedrest, I would not buy them otherwise. lol) and it's interesting how the all the articles are more tailored to the 20% than the other 80%.

Really, the core of any decent routine is the same. To keep the magazines interesting, they put everything in a hat, mix it around and then reconstruct 1,387,834 different routines from the same basic principles.

The other theme of the magazines are situation-specific programs like "How to do a complete workout at home with only milk cartons" or something.

A lot of people read about a "new" routine and then abandon the one they are on for the new shiny one. Doing that, though, screws up your progression and is probably unnecessary since the underlying principles are the same.

Pick a good program, and then stick with it until it no longer works.

[MWheatley]

Really, the core of any decent routine is the same. To keep the magazines interesting, they put everything in a hat, mix it around and then reconstruct 1,387,834 different routines from the same basic principles.

The other theme of the magazines are situation-specific programs like "How to do a complete workout at home with only milk cartons" or something.

A lot of people read about a "new" routine and then abandon the one they are on for the new shiny one. Doing that, though, screws up your progression and is probably unnecessary since the underlying principles are the same.

Pick a good program, and then stick with it until it no longer works.

Good point of view. So essentially we are continuing a consistent principal, fine tuning as we go. That being said, do you ever return to a program you have used before?

[VoxExMachina]

Good point of view. So essentially we are continuing a consistent principal, fine tuning as we go. That being said, do you ever return to a program you have used before?

I've used many types of routines in the past: full-body, upper/lower, 3-day splits, 4-day splits, 5-day splits, Tabata style workouts, etc. Your program selection should be based on your current experience level, recovery ability, specific goals, etc. Also, a bodybuilder will pick a bodybuilder type program. A powerlifter will select a powerlifter type program, etc. etc.

After many, many years of training, have now dialed in on what works for me. Generally, I stick with the same routine and "evolve" it over time. For instance, I'll sub in new exercises when one I'm using stalls out or causes issues. But I don't just change things wholesale. Enough remains constant so that I can keep track of my progression and make sure I'm moving in the right direction. If my goals changed drastically, then I might make a larger change.

A new lifter will naturally have to experiment to determine what works for them. But they should stick with things long enough to really make sure if they are working or not.

The original point of this thread, however, was to stick to the basics and not over-think things.

[Slow-N-Steady]

You're right, the topics brought up in most muscle mags really are interesting and sometimes informative. Its hard to take in any details you read though because they usually lead to a misconception. While the general idea they present usually hides some great info.

Exactly, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. I do admit that I have found a few tips here and there that seem very helpful though.

[MWheatley]

I've used many types of routines in the past: full-body, upper/lower, 3-day splits, 4-day splits, 5-day splits, Tabata style workouts, etc. Your program selection should be based on your current experience level, recovery ability, specific goals, etc. Also, a bodybuilder will pick a bodybuilder type program. A powerlifter will select a powerlifter type program, etc. etc.

After many, many years of training, have now dialed in on what works for me. Generally, I stick with the same routine and "evolve" it over time. For instance, I'll sub in new exercises when one I'm using stalls out or causes issues. But I don't just change things wholesale. Enough remains constant so that I can keep track of my progression and make sure I'm moving in the right direction. If my goals changed drastically, then I might make a larger change.

A new lifter will naturally have to experiment to determine what works for them. But they should stick with things long enough to really make sure if they are working or not.

The original point of this thread, however, was to stick to the basics and not over-think things.

Thanks for the breakdown, great thread.

[GuyJin]

I like deadlifting a bunch of females.

-------------------------------

Females of which species?

(Joke).

Vox has written a great thread, and to add to it--if it hasn't been written already--I'd just say don't sweat the small stuff. That would probably be the 80% he's written about. Like the PWO-shake that MUST be had no less than 45 minutes after an intense workout. Well, science and bro-sci says that it gets the amino acids into your bloodstream to get you recovering and growing faster, and also to stave off catabolism. Maybe so. But there will be times when that simply can't be done i.e. your girlfriend is using your shaker as a planter, or you've forgotten to buy protein powder, or you've got an upset stomach from all the heavy skwats and deadlifts and CURLZ! So don't sweat it; you're not going to shrink away to nothing by waiting a few minutes longer to eat.

Same with missing a workout. If it's unavoidable, it's unavoidable. The Japanese have a saying: "Shigata ga nai" or "Sho ga nai" which means "It can't be helped." So if you have to miss a workout, make it up the next day. The point is to work out and train hard.

This IS a great thread, Vox, and thanks for writing it.

[VoxExMachina]

-------------------------------

Vox has written a great thread, and to add to it--if it hasn't been written already--I'd just say don't sweat the small stuff. That would probably be the 80% he's written about. Like the PWO-shake that MUST be had no less than 45 minutes after an intense workout. Well, science and bro-sci says that it gets the amino acids into your bloodstream to get you recovering and growing faster, and also to stave off catabolism. Maybe so. But there will be times when that simply can't be done i.e. your girlfriend is using your shaker as a planter, or you've forgotten to buy protein powder, or you've got an upset stomach from all the heavy skwats and deadlifts and CURLZ! So don't sweat it; you're not going to shrink away to nothing by waiting a few minutes longer to eat.

Same with missing a workout. If it's unavoidable, it's unavoidable. The Japanese have a saying: "Shigata ga nai" or "Sho ga nai" which means "It can't be helped." So if you have to miss a workout, make it up the next day. The point is to work out and train hard.

This IS a great thread, Vox, and thanks for writing it.

Thanks, GuyJin! Don't sweat the small stuff, FTW.

[Engineer_Guy]

Great points. I have to agree for the average person good form, good nutrition, and rest are the most important things.

[Uncle Ben]

Some new trainee started a thread at T-Nation.. He's using T-Nation's "I, Bodybuilder" protocol, and wants to mix the "actication clusters" with the "forced spectrum ramping techniques" but is worried he'll overtrain. Apparently this sh*t isn't exclusive to bb.com.

Anyway, the posters at T-Nation support the 80/20 ideaology, but there are a handful who don't get it. A poster over there by the name of "Bricknyce" posted a fantastic diatribe about getting to work and not sweating the small stuff. I thought it was a great post, and worked well with this topic.

There's nothing wrong with doing what you've explained, asking people about real-world advice and information. I was just addressing what has caused hot-headedness and frustration around here.

It's not even a person's fault for getting suckered by information from all sorts of media these days, including information on nutrition and exercise and even LIFE. I've been suckered and fooled before. Now I've grown up and learned--this is cynical to say--that most people and information are FULL OF ****! Keep that in mind.

I'm grateful for all the nutrition and exercise information out there. I'm a dietitian and grateful for my own education on the topics. However, I really think there was a time when men just simply ate enough decent food, put on their sneakers, a t-shirt, and sweats and just hit the damn gym and did what all the successful guys were doing with variations depending on their needs. AND THAT WAS IT!

Same goes for the goddamn over-thinking that has been promoted and caused by the hucksters in the media, most notably all the self-help gurus out there now. I highly doubt that 50 or more years ago, people were analyzing every goddamn facet of life:

> Do I have three months of living expenses saved? I know I can't buy this 69-cent cup of coffee if I don't. Suze Orman said so.
> Do I have my dream man? I'm a Yankee fan and he's a Mets fan. He's also not funny enough.
> My creative juices aren't flowing right now. Is this really my "dream job". I think I'll have a latte and play pinball at the company rec room.
> Am I dysfunctional or functional?
> I think that comment my mom gave me when I was three ****ed up my whole self-image forever. That's god to be it.
> I "deserve" better than this. In fact, I'm "entitled" to it.
> I can be anything I want to be. And so can you!
> I'm not settling.

NO! People got up in the morning, fried an egg, got their boots or shoes on and went to ****in' work! No complaining - no over-thinking!

Same goes for training! Read some articles, ask for SOME help and advice, put a pair of kicks on, and get into a goddamn gym!

[ironwill2008]

Some new trainee started a thread at T-Nation.. He's using T-Nation's "I, Bodybuilder" protocol, and wants to mix the "actication clusters" with the "forced spectrum ramping techniques" but is worried he'll overtrain. Apparently this sh*t isn't exclusive to bb.com.

Good Grief. No, it's not exclusive to just BB.com. We just see a larger quantity of this kind of stuff in here beacuse this is such a large site. With over 2 million registered members here, there's a huge number of over-analyzers on board.

[VoxExMachina]

Some new trainee started a thread at T-Nation.. He's using T-Nation's "I, Bodybuilder" protocol, and wants to mix the "actication clusters" with the "forced spectrum ramping techniques" but is worried he'll overtrain. Apparently this sh*t isn't exclusive to bb.com.

Anyway, the posters at T-Nation support the 80/20 ideaology, but there are a handful who don't get it. A poster over there by the name of "Bricknyce" posted a fantastic diatribe about getting to work and not sweating the small stuff. I thought it was a great post, and worked well with this topic.

Beginners are often open to suggestions, new ideas, etc. Then comes the "intermediate" stage where everyone is an expert and very militant about getting everything "optimized".

Eventually, experience leads you back to the basics.

Good Grief. No, it's not exclusive to just BB.com. We just see a larger quantity of this kind of stuff in here beacuse this is such a large site. With over 2 million registered members here, there's a huge number of over-analyzers on board.

Even more that usual lately it seems.

[Dertygen]

I'd like to chime in with my useless long-winded rant here:


Just pick an established workout routine (Rippetoes; 5/3/1; Sheiko; etc.). Any one. (One caveat; choose a program that best suites your goals, BB, PL, OLY, sports).

From there follow it a few months. You, and only YOU, can learn whether your body responds best to it. If too (few/much) of (reps/sets)... then YOU can adjust it- but, and BUT, only after some time (1-3 months).

For nutrition; same as above. Higher/lower-> carbs/protein... not everyone needs 1.5g/lb, but only YOU can determine that. *check below for what I've done


For exercises- stick with the basics FFS then move on to the auxillary. Basics like squats/bench/deads/lats(lat pulldowns &/or pullups)/curls (hammer curl & supinated).
If there's specific areas, after time, to be targeted then for god sakes do those weird ass things that come into fads.

For supplements... holy ****... you have better chances at guessing the end of the world. (PS: minus creatine & caffeine).


*
Personally (<- yes, me, only me, maybe not for you) I find that high fructose foods (soda, really!/bananas/various fruits) in the morning (breakfast) replenish the liver glycogens stores best (since fructose only replenishes the the liver stores) of which I only then move to grains/complex carbs (-small amounts for breakfast-heavy amounts in brunch + lunch) that'll feed the muscles and then heavy protein meals in the evening (to prepare for sleep). But this only works because I learned after months what my body responds best to, and how this all fits into my workout regime.



So as been stated ad nauseum... start simple, keep at it, tweak to what you feel gives the best response.

[-Lucifer]

Bumpity bump.

[matt297]

With over 2 million registered members here, there's a huge number of over-analyzers on board.

that'd be the 80%

[deathdog]

Thanks for this post. I've been reading bb.com for several years, tried every sort of workout you can imagine, and never really got good results. Whenever I just "did my own thing", whatever felt right for my body, I gained quite a bit of muscle. Obviously I still need to develop my training methods, but trial-and-error was far more effective than any stock program.

Now, I'm trying to lose the fat and again I began reading the forums for insight. Essentially it boils down to not eating crap and getting enough protein; unfortunately that isn't always easy so of course I was looking for a magic trick to speed up the process and drop 10 pounds of fat in a week. This thread made me realize willpower and hard work accomplish more than any fat burner possibly could.

[easy_z]

good read, thanks for posting.

[sotret]

Great post.

[Rough-Neck]

Great Post, Thanks for the info!

[arob10]

awesome post

[bamazav]

Eventually, experience leads you back to the basics.

I am late entering this discussion, but IMHO this ^^^^ sums it all up. When I played ball, when I coached ball, whenever the team started to struggle did we quit or go find a new style or position to play? No, we went back to basics. It is a simple truth, if you can't perform the basics properly or well, how can you expect to do the more complex.

Vox, thanks for starting a very interesting and informative thread.

[VoxExMachina]

I am late entering this discussion, but IMHO this ^^^^ sums it all up. When I played ball, when I coached ball, whenever the team started to struggle did we quit or go find a new style or position to play? No, we went back to basics. It is a simple truth, if you can't perform the basics properly or well, how can you expect to do the more complex.

Vox, thanks for starting a very interesting and informative thread.

Thanks, Bama. I think the sporting analogy is very apt. Same principle applies to anything, really.

[Tyrbolift]

A good quote, from Dave Draper, which goes right along with the theme of this thread:

"Get rid of the notion that you need to know more and more. The learning is in the doing."


.

That was in my sig for a good long while.

When did he steal it from me?