The typical relationship and how most of them ultimately fail.

[Wife Beater]

I'm going to give you my take on most relationships based on a bunch of reading and recent personal experience. This is not ALL relationships, but it's many of them.

Stage 1: The initial attraction begins because the man is acting alpha or semi-alpha. He has an "I don't give a crap" and an "It's a privilege to get with me" mentality. The girl becomes attracted to this because people want what they can't have. I put that in bold because that's the main concept in this whole theory. The girl knows that she has to work for the man's affection and attention. They hook up, get to know each other, may or may not start dating, and eventually agree to be in a relationship.

Stage 2: The relationship starts off good in most cases - it is new and exciting. While the guy is now in a relationship, he still maintains his alphaness, and the mentalities I mentioned in stage 1 to some extent. The girl is usually the first to start centering their life on the man, while the man is still centered on himself and other interests (though he loves his girlfriend at the same time.) The more the girl starts centering her life on the man, the more attention and affection she demands. At this stage, the girl is more attracted to the guy than the guy is attracted to the girl because people want what they can't have. In this case, what the girl can't have is his decision to center his life on her.

Stage 3: Arguments start to spawn from the girl that are about the lack of attention and affection from the guy. The guy slowly gives in to these needs because of a fear of loss of the girl. He begins centering his life on the girl. He begins to put her needs before his own, and slowly loses his dominance in the relationship. He asks for her approval more on decisions, and opinions, instead of taking care of everything himself. This is the first sign of insecurity of the man. And insecurity in men = attraction death for women.

Stage 4: The girl's attraction to the guy slowly but surely decreases as the man's insecurity increases. This causes the girl to stop centering her life on the guy which becomes evident in the way she acts. The guy starts noticing the changes in the girl's actions, and grows even more insecure. He starts wanting what he can't have which is the attention and affection he used to receive from the girl in the beginning of the relationship. At this point, the guy has centered his life on the girl. The fear of loss of the girl is at its highest stage, and every other man starts becoming a threat. He then start exhibiting other factors of insecurity including jealousy. While there have always been arguments (whether frequent or infrequent,) this stage spawns the most arguments there have ever been. The arguments are mainly about jealousy, and the lack of attention from the girl, that the guy used to receive.

Stage 5: The guy has officially turned into a complete Beta. The girls attraction for the guy is gone or almost gone. The girl breaks up with the guy, and the guy is heartbroken, especially since he has centered his life on the girl.

What to take from this if you are a guy:
Never center your life around the girl. Too much attention, devotion, and "pulling" will push them away. Center your life on your own principles, on your own goals, and always look to achieve things for yourself first. STAY ALPHA. In most cases, you will not lose your girl no matter how much attention and affection she demands (Stage 2.) Love your girl. Care for your girl. Have the time of your life with your girl. But never ever convey the fact that your life is dependent on your girl.

[wapacmane]

what if your marry her? can you still neglect her like you suggested

[Wife Beater]

what if your marry her? can you still neglect her like you suggested

I never said neglect her. But what I suggested applies to all relationships, married, or not. Marriage doesn't guarantee attraction for the rest of your life. It just enforces everything I said which is why the divorce rate in the United States is around 50 percent.

[Schnitter]

[Wife Beater]

This isn't the regular misc .. have some respect bro

[Bcider]

I think thats true for shorter relationships, like a year to two years. I've noticed that after a good amount of time like a year, I get bored and I actually revert back to the not giving a crap phase. And this is what really pissed off my exes lol.

[tommyV_1988]

#1/#2 are completely true.

#1 is what i enjoy, acting alpha as f*ck and bishes are all over you like flys on ****.

This is done by obviouslly acting alpha in person, not responding to texts and not talking to them like they are gods gift. Srsly works, f*cked up, but it works

[fukc]

As a female I hate stage one.

[Limit]

#1/#2 are completely true.

#1 is what i enjoy, acting alpha as f*ck and bishes are all over you like flys on ****.

This is done by obviouslly acting alpha in person, not responding to texts and not talking to them like they are gods gift. Srsly works, f*cked up, but it works

It's fun, but it kinda sucks when one comes along that you actually kinda like, yet due to experience you know that if you start showing her attention etc. that she's probably the type to blow you off just as hard as she has been coming on to you. So you just keep up with the alpha/not caring stuff b/c it's not worth it.

[RyanGrob]

As a female I hate stage one.

Of course you do, because you lack control.

[thomasl1432]

Wow...alot of it is really true...

[Thewhite9t]

What to take from this if you are a guy:
Never center your life around the girl. Too much attention, devotion, and "pulling" will push them away. Center your life on your own principles, on your own goals, and always look to achieve things for yourself first. STAY ALPHA In most cases, you will not lose your girl no matter how much attention and affection she demands (Stage 2.) Love your girl. Care for your girl. Have the time of your life with your girl. But never ever convey the fact that your life is dependent on your girl.

I think that this is dead on.

No matter how badly a women thinks she wants you to conform to her demands, you cannot or you will lose her respect and attraction.

Great post.

[Wife Beater]

As a female I hate stage one.

Sorry if it's offensive, but its just psychology .. you can't escape it. Deep down, do you want the guy who looks like he has his **** together and who you think doesn't really want you? Or do you want the nice guy who is talking to you all night who you know you are guaranteed to get with if you choose to do so?

[Thewhite9t]

Sorry if it's offensive, but its just psychology .. you can't escape it. Deep down, do you want the guy who looks like he has his **** together and who you think doesn't really want you? Or do you want the nice guy who is talking to you all night who you know you are guaranteed to get with if you choose to do so?

Yea it really has nothing to do with the logical brain.

The reason for the contradiction here between what the women thinks she wants and what she actually wants is that the lower and higher brains are not in agreement.

The lower brain is responsible for love, aggression, social hierachies...ect and that is the true decider of attraction.

Unfortunately the logical brain isn't responsible for attraction. If that were true you could just do what she wanted and she would love you even more for it because she thinks she should. And also if that were true, I would be dating the nerd in my multivariable calc class because she is a good person and I want to love her.

[Ironbru]

This is all great stuff about making yourself unavailable and not focussing too much on a girl, but surely that attitude can only take you so far and some of this has to come down to the amount and regularity of contact and affection that each person in the relationship wants and expects. Some people are happy with very little while others demand more. As long as there is a major imbalance between the two people in respect to these demands then the relationship is probably doomed.

I think what would be really useful was if there were any useful tips for reversing the dynamics and regaining the upper hand if your relationship starts to flounder. Is it possible to come back from one of the later stages?

I personally like to have a lot of attention from a partner - it just feels more normal to me - but I'm always careful not to pester them with lots of phone calls and texts and I try to sit back and let them initiate calls and so on. Unfortunately I think they get the false impression that, because I'm not initiating contact, that I don't want it. Also the fact I am busy with uni projects means I can't devote enough time to outside interests that don't involve her, for me to be seen as an interesting challenge that she needs to chase after. There's only so often that you can use work as an excuse not to talk to her without sounding like a bore!

In my current relationship I think I've slipped to stage 4 in the space of two months. It hasn't helped that, even a month into our relationship she has done things to make me jealous and question her past and present behaviour. I'm not sure how to come back from this, because if I act more aloof, she then ignores me more and says she didn't think I wanted to talk because I didn't say anything to her! And pretending that things that bother me (which are real causes for concern) are cool doesn't work because they just sit there and fester until the lid blows off and we have a major row. If I close myself off emotionally then neither of us would end up talking (or it would be surface conversation with an undercurrent of bitterness and resentment) and we'd just drift apart even more.

I've talked with her about this, she thinks it is her problem and not mine but I think it may be simply mismatched expectations for relationships - she told me today that she thought our 'outlooks' were different, after I had said something that she took out of context (to be more accurate, she didn't listen...). However I fear it may be a personality conflict and there's not much you can do about that.

[Wife Beater]

This is all great stuff about making yourself unavailable and not focussing too much on a girl, but surely that attitude can only take you so far and some of this has to come down to the amount and regularity of contact and affection that each person in the relationship wants and expects. Some people are happy with very little while others demand more. As long as there is a major imbalance between the two people in respect to these demands then the relationship is probably doomed.

I think what would be really useful was if there were any useful tips for reversing the dynamics and regaining the upper hand if your relationship starts to flounder. Is it possible to come back from one of the later stages?

I personally like to have a lot of attention from a partner - it just feels more normal to me - but I'm always careful not to pester them with lots of phone calls and texts and I try to sit back and let them initiate calls and so on. Unfortunately I think they get the false impression that, because I'm not initiating contact, that I don't want it. Also the fact I am busy with uni projects means I can't devote enough time to outside interests that don't involve her, for me to be seen as an interesting challenge that she needs to chase after. There's only so often that you can use work as an excuse not to talk to her without sounding like a bore!

In my current relationship I think I've slipped to stage 4 in the space of two months. It hasn't helped that, even a month into our relationship she has done things to make me jealous and question her past and present behaviour. I'm not sure how to come back from this, because if I act more aloof, she then ignores me more and says she didn't think I wanted to talk because I didn't say anything to her! And pretending that things that bother me (which are real causes for concern) are cool doesn't work because they just sit there and fester until the lid blows off and we have a major row. If I close myself off emotionally then neither of us would end up talking (or it would be surface conversation with an undercurrent of bitterness and resentment) and we'd just drift apart even more.

I've talked with her about this, she thinks it is her problem and not mine but I think it may be simply mismatched expectations for relationships - she told me today that she thought our 'outlooks' were different, after I had said something that she took out of context (to be more accurate, she didn't listen...). However I fear it may be a personality conflict and there's not much you can do about that.

Of course, every girl demands different amounts of contact and affection, so my original post is subjective to the couple - but it really all comes down to the same thing.

Yes, it is definitely possible to come back from the later stages. It requires alone time to think. For some people, that may entail a break up or a break. For others, they can do it while still in the relationship - (make some excuse like you are busy with work or whatever it takes to not see her for a few days up to a week.) During this alone time, your goal is to regain your confidence, because lets face it - relationships take some of your confidence away which in turn contributes to your increasing submissiveness. Think about two things that entire time: fantasize about yourself getting with other women (of course you won't actually do that), and think about everything else in your life besides your love life that is a source of your happiness. Think about how you can make those things a higher priority in your life from now on. My girl broke up with me, and it took me about 2 weeks to regain my confidence - for you it will be shorter, because the first week for me I just sulked. You KNOW that you still have this girl, so you should alpha back up much quicker.

Having this mentality will cause you to apply the pull / push method. Pull them in with love, caring, devotion, and attention up to a point just short of you conveying dependency on her, and then push her away. Push her away doesn't mean blow her off, neglect her, or hurt her in any way. It means start focusing on your own life and goals and other sources of happiness for the time being. This pull / push method may sound like some kind of sick game that you must play for the entire relationship, but it's not. It's a way of keeping balance and preserving love for as long as possible. The pull / push method starts out with a conscious effort, and turns into a habit, or a subconscious effort.

Good luck.

[Guardian]

This is true early on or for what I call "love gap" situations. What this means is that for whatever reason there is a delay or out right absense of love and the relationship is based pretty much soley on factors like attraction or money.

When love kicks in, then the ops rules are not so clear cut, even if the guy shows more attention and so forth that doesn't mean his ship will sink.

Relationships are about being on the same page, behaviors such as more attention, affection, making time for the girl, making her more a part of your life, etc only work when the girl has developed rea love. If you do those things before they love then it will be a turn off, if you do them after love it may actually better the relationship. Basically a guys same exact behavior will have different outcomes based on the state of where the girl is.

This is also why some girls just bounce around from one guy to another or stay in abusive relationships, these girls for whatever reason never love and therefore only like a guy who is in your stage one and two.

On the other end a girl who isn't damaged and devlopes love fairly quickly will actually be turned off by a guy who remains the alpha uncaring role

The reason the ops ideas apply alot is because now a days it seems more and more people including women are reluctant to love often because of daddy issues or being hurt before or poor self esteem or whatever.

[Wife Beater]

This is true early on or for what I call "love gap" situations. What this means is that for whatever reason there is a delay or out right absense of love and the relationship is based pretty much soley on factors like attraction or money.

When love kicks in, then the ops rules are not so clear cut, even if the guy shows more attention and so forth that doesn't mean his ship will sink.

Relationships are about being on the same page, behaviors such as more attention, affection, making time for the girl, making her more a part of your life, etc only work when the girl has developed rea love. If you do those things before they love then it will be a turn off, if you do them after love it may actually better the relationship. Basically a guys same exact behavior will have different outcomes based on the state of where the girl is.

This is also why some girls just bounce around from one guy to another or stay in abusive relationships, these girls for whatever reason never love and therefore only like a guy who is in your stage one and two.

On the other end a girl who isn't damaged and devlopes love fairly quickly will actually be turned off by a guy who remains the alpha uncaring role

The reason the ops ideas apply alot is because now a days it seems more and more people including women are reluctant to love often because of daddy issues or being hurt before Ior poor self esteem or whatever.

I agree with this to a slight extent, and believe me, I WANT to believe that is true entirely. I would love to know that I can give 100 percent of my life to a woman without pushing her away. So my question for you is this - hopefully you can convince me:

Isn't love built and based on attraction? If so, isn't attraction based on the concepts that I originally posted? And if so, since attraction can be taken away, can't love be taken away? Are the two not mutual, or relative?

[Guardian]

I agree with this to a slight extent, and believe me, I WANT to believe that is true entirely. I would love to know that I can give 100 percent of my life to a woman without pushing her away. So my question for you is this - hopefully you can convince me:

Isn't love built and based on attraction? If so, isn't attraction based on the concepts that I originally posted? And if so, since attraction can be taken away, can't love be taken away? Are the two not mutual, or relative?

They are correlated but not in the manner you are thinking.

Let's think of it like this, there is a couple that is married, and lets assume they trully are happy together and have no cheated. Was the woman more attracted to the guy the first day or week she knew him (you stage one) or now? Lets say they have been married for 5 years.

If she trully was more attracted to him at the very start that means they probably would never have made it to marriage because somewhere between she'd leave him for someone else because no matter how well you "play it" a "fresh new" guy will be early in your step sequence then the guy that's in a relationship.

But, she didn't leave him, and they got married, why? Its love, and I personally think what "love" actually means is sharing, that is being more at one with someone, this is those cheesy times when you can sense what someone is thinking or what they will say, etc. The problem is you can't share with someone who is distant, so a girl will have a hard time ever truly loving a guy who plays the alpha distant role from day one and forever. On the other hand if the guy tries to share before the girl is ready then she will bail. It's kind of like running a race together, if one person is to fast or to slow the other will feel guilty and give up or be a drag on the team, if each person is running together and running at a pace that's comfortable to them they will enjoy the run together and finish together.

Physical attraction (which also entails the alpha gig because it is on the "surface") is pretty much the person feeling like they could share themselves with you on a physical level. But that is only the first step, and if its the only step taken either the relationship will end or be unfullfilling.

But on deeper levels, emotional, intimate, spiritual, etc it involves each person letting down the alpha guard and becoming more at one with the other.

The alpha push pull type style works because the woman yearns to be at one with you and for a certain amount of time this works well, but at some point if the cycles just never ends and she never reaches a greater level of oneness then she will look elsewhere.

I'm sure you have had that "special" girl in your life before where you loved her and enjoyed beign with her all the time and so forth. Now if this girl was always distant for years on end where you only seen her once or twice a week and it seemed like she was always holding back sooner or later you'd get tired of it and leave, same goes for girls.

Bottom line is everyone likes the fun of the chase, but sooner or later we get hungry and want to eat. Being overly alpha and distant indefinatly is a kin to always hunting but never eating anything you killed. Some people never love because maybe they have ate something that tasted horrible before or nearly killed them or gave them food poisoning.

[Dave P]

The older (and smarter) women get the more they need to be white knighted alittle.


The younger (and stupider) they are the more they are into the "bad" type of guys.

[ghott01]

Good posts itt. Rep'd.

[varter]

This is very good (OP) and it goes back to a fantastic point established in a previous thread. No matter how much women complain about a man's stubbornness regarding his principles (in the context of this thread, not centering his life around her, giving her more attention, etc.), they secretly consider it beta when a man gives up his beliefs to satisfy another, even his GF (her).

So one of the keys to this problem is to be able to walk away, stay aloof, and maintain your confidence in resisting her stupid objections. Be stubborn. It's hard to believe that doing what she says will make the relationship worse, and it's hard not to get distorted by her nonsense (over time, of course), but it's true.

[bearfan34201]

Great post op. Sounds exactly right.

[Thewhite9t]

I agree with this to a slight extent, and believe me, I WANT to believe that is true entirely. I would love to know that I can give 100 percent of my life to a woman without pushing her away. So my question for you is this - hopefully you can convince me:

Isn't love built and based on attraction? If so, isn't attraction based on the concepts that I originally posted? And if so, since attraction can be taken away, can't love be taken away? Are the two not mutual, or relative?

I use the push/pull you are talking about a lot. I usually pull until I get a bad reaction (i.e. she disrespects me), then I push away until she realizes that she can't get confortable enough with me to walk on me. It's frustrating sometimes that I can't give a woman the full extent of my affection. I've tried many times, but they always do me dirty when I do.

And your question is valid. Love is based on attraction. If that wasn't true, then long time couples wouldn't be getting divorced left and right because one (or both) of them lose attraction for the other.

[Wife Beater]

I use the push/pull you are talking about a lot. I usually pull until I get a bad reaction (i.e. she disrespects me), then I push away until she realizes that she can't get confortable enough with me to walk on me. It's frustrating sometimes that I can't give a woman the full extent of my affection. I've tried many times, but they always do me dirty when I do.

And your question is valid. Love is based on attraction. If that wasn't true, then long time couples wouldn't be getting divorced left and right because one (or both) of them lose attraction for the other.

Exactly.

And Guardian, you asked before, is attraction the strongest in stage 1 or in 5 years of knowing somebody. I think in most if not all cases, the answer is stage 1. While in those 5 years, your comfortability increases, I think your always going to be the most attracted to a girl in the early stages of meeting her.

[Guardian]

Exactly.

And Guardian, you asked before, is attraction the strongest in stage 1 or in 5 years of knowing somebody. I think in most if not all cases, the answer is stage 1. While in those 5 years, your comfortability increases, I think your always going to be the most attracted to a girl in the early stages of meeting her.

See I disagree in some cases as the bond and closeness grows attraction will be even greater, that is why making love is often much more profound feeling then just banging someone you met yesterday.

[NeedPerfection]

So true for high school relationships.

[Shawdowfox]

this post does make some sense at the least but keep in mind when you are further into the relationship (more than several months) you shouldn't hide your emotions and try to act alpha since what kind of a girl wants to stay with a douche?

[He_Who_Forgets]

good post op...pretty much spot on in my dating experience. wish i coulda figured this out in high school...

[ShadyBobcat]

repped