The typical relationship and how most of them ultimately fail.

[Wife Beater]

Stage 1:

Wildly attracted to one another...the honeymoon

Stage 2:

Get to know one another, accept each other for what you are and the goodness you bring to the relationship. Learn how to disagree while still respecting one another. Work through the hard times. Don't assign blame, focus on resolution.

Stage 3:

Understand and appreciate this SO, value them above all others. Make your way through life utilizing all the lessons learned in #2 above. Continue to evolve and change with each other. Maintain respect, loyalty and honor.

Stage 4:

Not sure...living it right now and in the Spring we will celebrate 30 years of marriage.

This is so simple in concept but most bail in #2 because being right/in control is more important than being together....thats what I see.

Carry on.

Mydawgs, given your age, I don't think this thread applies to you. You are mature and secure and most people your age are mature and secure. This is the case with relationships of teenagers and people in their 20's and maybe earlier 30s. Any later than that, and people don't want to fuk around anymore. Push/Pull games are less likely to be played. Individuals have experience with relationships and don't want to go through the BS. They aren't really eligible bachelors and bachelorettes anymore so the fear of loss is minimal. They settle with what they have and they make the best of it.

[mydawgs]

Your husband is just afraid that if he leaves, you'll squeeze his head until it explodes like a watermelon with your glutes of steel..

His are bigger and stronger...HA! He is an ex HW National Level BB. But thank you for the "glutes of steel" comment...made my day!

And Wife Beater...I married at 23. And you missed the point. You are missing the entire essence of making an LTR work.

And that is you won't "work" at it. And this is a typical failure of all relationships....they need to be managed and sustained and unless you are willing to see that as well as the other person in the pair...then "your" cycle will never end.

It can't always be a Stage 1, and it is NOT about "who cares the least" or trys to maintain control. It is about a bond that encompasses friendship and love, it is always respectful and patient. It is about finding commonality in each other so mistakes can be made and reconciled because you both see things in a similar way.

Your steps are juvenile...they need to graduate to a level of maturity that provides a working understanding of each other with a will to want it to work. IF you are talking about LTRs....are you?

[Ronnie87]

18 months in and still Alpha crew

[Wife Beater]

His are bigger and stronger...HA! He is an ex HW National Level BB. But thank you for the "glutes of steel" comment...made my day!

And Wife Beater...I married at 23. And you missed the point. You are missing the entire essence of making an LTR work.

And that is you won't "work" at it. And this is a typical failure of all relationships....they need to be managed and sustained and unless you are willing to see that as well as the other person in the pair...then "your" cycle will never end.

It can't always be a Stage 1, and it is NOT about "who cares the least" or trys to maintain control. It is about a bond that encompasses friendship and love, it is always respectful and patient. It is about finding commonality in each other so mistakes can be made and reconciled because you both see things in a similar way.

Your steps are juvenile...they need to graduate to a level of maturity that provides a working understanding of each other with a will to want it to work. IF you are talking about LTRs....are you?

I agree with you. Fortunately for you, you married at a time period where men were still men. The whole point of my thread is to tell men to remain alpha in the relationship which is something that is declining now a days. Men are steadily becoming more feminine and women are becoming more masculine. I definitely agree that relationships need to be managed and maintained, but it will never get to this step if the attraction goes out the window. The purpose of this thread is to fix the adversities that men have to deal with these days which involve women becoming more dominant than the male in the relationship, and men submitting and succumbing to this fate. I definitely advocate "friendship and love" and "respect and patience," but this will never last if the man becomes a push over which will cause the woman to lose attraction for him and the relationship to ultimately end.

[mydawgs]

I agree with you. Fortunately for you, you married at a time period where men were still men. The whole point of my thread is to tell men to remain alpha in the relationship which is something that is declining now a days. Men are steadily becoming more feminine and women are becoming more masculine. I definitely agree that relationships need to be managed and maintained, but it will never get to this step if the attraction goes out the window. The purpose of this thread is to fix the adversities that men have to deal with these days which involve women becoming more dominant than the male in the relationship, and men submitting and succumbing to this fate. I definitely advocate "friendship and love" and "respect and patience," but this will never last if the man becomes a push over which will cause the woman to lose attraction for him and the relationship to ultimately end.

And if you truly mean this there is your issue. Dominance is using leverage to force control. LTRs require collaboration and leadership between both parties. I will agree my husband tends to lead more, but he knows when it's best for the two of us to follow...and dominating plays no role in this at all.

Their is no friendship, love or respect with true dominance...just fear and submission.

Your generation has lost the skill of "finding a balance" that works for you....more hung up on who's in charge.

[Wife Beater]

It seems that you took my quote saying "which involve women becoming more dominant than the male in the relationship" and assumed that I'm implying it should be the other way around.

Dominance is using leverage to force control. LTRs require collaboration and leadership between both parties. Their is no friendship, love or respect with true dominance...just fear and submission.

Agreed once again. So you are effectively proving this entire thread to be true. Again, the problem with modern relationships are that women are overpowering men and I'm advising men to hold their own in order to maintain balance in the relationship - not overpower them in return. When I say things like "stay alpha" I don't mean "dominate your partner." I mean "don't allow yourself to get pushed around and controlled."

[mydawgs]

It seems that you took my quote saying "which involve women becoming more dominant than the male in the relationship" and assumed that I'm implying it should be the other way around.



Agreed once again. So you are effectively proving this entire thread to be true. Again, the problem with modern relationships are that women are overpowering men and I'm advising men to hold their own in order to maintain balance in the relationship - not overpower them in return. When I say things like "stay alpha" I don't mean "dominate your partner." I mean "don't allow yourself to get pushed around and controlled."

Agreed, demand in return what you are willing to give and settle for nothing less.

[nhclone]

Sorry if it's offensive, but its just psychology .. you can't escape it. Deep down, do you want the guy who looks like he has his **** together and who you think doesn't really want you? Or do you want the nice guy who is talking to you all night who you know you are guaranteed to get with if you choose to do so?

Only 2 problems with your theory.
1) Are you saying guys never break up with girls?
2) If you want what you can't have, why does the guy still want the girl at stages 1 and 2?

Plenty of times where relationship go very similiar to this, but you're overgeneralizing based on past experience, that's not psychology.

[Wife Beater]

Only 2 problems with your theory.
1) Are you saying guys never break up with girls?
2) If you want what you can't have, why does the guy still want the girl at stages 1 and 2?

Plenty of times where relationship go very similiar to this, but you're overgeneralizing based on past experience, that's not psychology.

If the guy breaks up with the girl (a little less common but definitely not non-existent) - it's for the same exact reason in my theory. It's because the girl is demanding so much attention, has centered their life on the guy, and is generally coming off as needy. This is a HUGE turn off for guys.

If the guy is to break up with the girl, it happens at the end of stage 2 like you said. They make a choice to either break up with the girl since she's becoming too needy, or succumb to her wishes. This part honestly depends on the guy and how confident he is in being able to get with other girls. If the guy considers his girlfriend his "lucky break" and knows he isn't too great with getting girls, he's more inclined to stay with her.

It also depends on the length of stage 2/3. It could last for a long time. What happens many times is the girl continues to demand more attention and hits a point where she starts running out of patience. She starts giving off a bluff vibe "If you don't start paying more attention to me, I will break this off" even though she never will. The guy starts picking this vibe up and that's where his fear of loss kicks in. THAT's when the tables start turning.

[Fon7ana]

So in other words you said "I'm sorry I was wrong" ?

Not exactly. I just understood where she was coming from about it all. She gave me fair warning that she wants to work things out but to be peppered for her to not regain a spark if the resentment lingers. Maybe it will be different when I'm up there. Either way, a huge emotional risk that I'm still willing to take.

If it fails, it fails. Though I'd be really glad to see it work.

VA has better jobs for IT so at least I can pout with more money in my pockets.

[FawkinJuicyBrah]

forgot to ask, whats your opinion on asking your gf for her ******** password? been wanting to ask her for a while but i dont know if i should just not care. i dont really trust her when it comes to fb but i dont know if this will make me look insecure

[Apollo151]

They often fail because people attract similar minded folks instead of learning from each relationship. This they jump from one unhealthy relationship to the next.

So many damaged people in society thinking their next love is 'the one' instead of loving themselves in a non-narcissistic way.

[Wife Beater]

forgot to ask, whats your opinion on asking your gf for her ******** password? been wanting to ask her for a while but i dont know if i should just not care. i dont really trust her when it comes to fb but i dont know if this will make me look insecure

Absolutely not. Any kind of jealousy or distrust will cause her to lose a great amount of attraction and respect for you. You need to act like you're the best possible deal for her. That no other guy is a threat. The more you act like this, the less of a chance she will cheat on you or talk to other guys. The more you express jealousy and insecurity, the more of a chance she will start looking elsewhere. "We pursue that which retreats from us" - it works the opposite way as well.

[2bPuMp3d]

forgot to ask, whats your opinion on asking your gf for her ******** password? been wanting to ask her for a while but i dont know if i should just not care. i dont really trust her when it comes to fb but i dont know if this will make me look insecure

Asking for a ******** password is a form of control and shows you don't trust her, might as well break things off if you feel as though you have to have her password.

[Stryfe14]

Wow. Read the OP, and it basically completely described my last serious relationship, except for a couple areas. I really felt like my ex just didn't give a **** about me, and so I broke up with her instead of her breaking up with me.

I still remember the alpha moments of just before her and I became official. We started hooking up and dating in April, and my junior prom (her and I dated until I left for college) was mid-April. I remember I was driving and she sent me a text telling me she would love it and it would mean a lot to her if we could go to my prom. I think if I remember correctly I sent her back something like this, "Lol no I have to save money for my trip to Florida in May with Friend X". I didn't actually need to save money. I just didn't want to go and had zero intention of asking her given any situation.

She sent me basically whatever nude I requested that night.

[kmplex]

I agree with this..

The MOMENT you start showing a woman you love her, like she's your world, and you want to be affectionate, etc.. She'll lose ALL interest in you very quickly.. You have to keep that hidden or only display some of it but don't ever show her how much she means to you everyday.. Only on rare occasions. And I hate saying that, but seriously that's just how women are.. You have to keep her wanting you, needing you to accept/love her, otherwise she'll get bored of you. Now there are some* women who aren't like that, but most are.

It's just best to give a little and hold back enough to keep her interested.. Just don't be dependent on her, and don't ever let her be your reason to live, etc. None of that. Also this post is tailored mostly to younger guys, older women are a bit more different..

[2bPuMp3d]

I agree with this..

The MOMENT you start showing a woman you love her, like she's your world, and you want to be affectionate, etc.. She'll lose ALL interest in you very quickly.. You have to keep that hidden or only display some of it but don't ever show her how much she means to you everyday.. Only on rare occasions. And I hate saying that, but seriously that's just how women are.. You have to keep her wanting you, needing you to accept/love her, otherwise she'll get bored of you. Now there are some* women who aren't like that, but most are.

It's just best to give a little and hold back enough to keep her interested.. Just don't be dependent on her, and don't ever let her be your reason to live, etc. None of that. Also this post is tailored mostly to younger guys, older women are a bit more different..

This happened to me dude...4 years into marriage and she wont even talk to me properly, severe lack of respect, lots of nagging. I used to go out of my way to do insane things for her every occasion above and beyond the call of a bf or husband, each and every time i did these things they were received happily np but then 5 min later it was as if i never did them....I spend 6-8 hours creating **** on valentines day for my wife every year. I stay up ALL freaken night so i can get it done before she wakes up and afterwards there's no love, no respect, no sex...seriously pisses me off as if i've wasted my talents of being romantic on this woman.

[BEARDofNORRIS]

This happened to me dude...4 years into marriage and she wont even talk to me properly, severe lack of respect, lots of nagging. I used to go out of my way to do insane things for her every occasion above and beyond the call of a bf or husband, each and every time i did these things they were received happily np but then 5 min later it was as if i never did them....I spend 6-8 hours creating **** on valentines day for my wife every year. I stay up ALL freaken night so i can get it done before she wakes up and afterwards there's no love, no respect, no sex...seriously pisses me off as if i've wasted my talents of being romantic on this woman.

You should google "Helen Fisher 4 Year Itch."

Historically, she claims, humans gave birth every four years. We were driven, therefore, to couple up for four years -- enough time to have a child and raise it through infancy. After that, according to Fisher, men and women might have a biological drive to get bored with a relationship and seek a new partner for childbearing. By having children with more than one person, parents could increase the genetic diversity in their offspring, which increased the chances that at least one of their children would survive [source: Fisher].

I've had two LTR's that ended right around the 4 year mark. Her theory makes sense.

If you want a relationship to last, it has to be about more than sex and romance. IMO, it's VERY rare for a couple to actually have mutual respect and adoration. If it's one-sided, it isn't going to last.

[PrivateJet]

I'm going to give you my take on most relationships based on a bunch of reading and recent personal experience. This is not ALL relationships, but it's many of them.

Stage 1: The initial attraction begins because the man is acting alpha or semi-alpha. He has an "I don't give a crap" and an "It's a privilege to get with me" mentality. The girl becomes attracted to this because people want what they can't have. I put that in bold because that's the main concept in this whole theory. The girl knows that she has to work for the man's affection and attention. They hook up, get to know each other, may or may not start dating, and eventually agree to be in a relationship.

Stage 2: The relationship starts off good in most cases - it is new and exciting. While the guy is now in a relationship, he still maintains his alphaness, and the mentalities I mentioned in stage 1 to some extent. The girl is usually the first to start centering their life on the man, while the man is still centered on himself and other interests (though he loves his girlfriend at the same time.) The more the girl starts centering her life on the man, the more attention and affection she demands. At this stage, the girl is more attracted to the guy than the guy is attracted to the girl because people want what they can't have. In this case, what the girl can't have is his decision to center his life on her.

Stage 3: Arguments start to spawn from the girl that are about the lack of attention and affection from the guy. The guy slowly gives in to these needs because of a fear of loss of the girl. He begins centering his life on the girl. He begins to put her needs before his own, and slowly loses his dominance in the relationship. He asks for her approval more on decisions, and opinions, instead of taking care of everything himself. This is the first sign of insecurity of the man. And insecurity in men = attraction death for women.

Stage 4: The girl's attraction to the guy slowly but surely decreases as the man's insecurity increases. This causes the girl to stop centering her life on the guy which becomes evident in the way she acts. The guy starts noticing the changes in the girl's actions, and grows even more insecure. He starts wanting what he can't have which is the attention and affection he used to receive from the girl in the beginning of the relationship. At this point, the guy has centered his life on the girl. The fear of loss of the girl is at its highest stage, and every other man starts becoming a threat. He then start exhibiting other factors of insecurity including jealousy. While there have always been arguments (whether frequent or infrequent,) this stage spawns the most arguments there have ever been. The arguments are mainly about jealousy, and the lack of attention from the girl, that the guy used to receive.

Stage 5: The guy has officially turned into a complete Beta. The girls attraction for the guy is gone or almost gone. The girl breaks up with the guy, and the guy is heartbroken, especially since he has centered his life on the girl.

What to take from this if you are a guy:
Never center your life around the girl. Too much attention, devotion, and "pulling" will push them away. Center your life on your own principles, on your own goals, and always look to achieve things for yourself first. STAY ALPHA. In most cases, you will not lose your girl no matter how much attention and affection she demands (Stage 2.) Love your girl. Care for your girl. Have the time of your life with your girl. But never ever convey the fact that your life is dependent on your girl.

Generally that is the case, but I don't see "staying alpha" as the solution. It is the lesser of two evils, but being protector without providing will also end up in failed relationships.

My favorite take is The Rawness's take on The Renaissance Man. Few people have the insight the author does. Check it out.

http://therawness.com/becoming-a-ren...ce-man-series/

[F1exAppeal]

This is true early on or for what I call "love gap" situations. What this means is that for whatever reason there is a delay or out right absense of love and the relationship is based pretty much soley on factors like attraction or money.

When love kicks in, then the ops rules are not so clear cut, even if the guy shows more attention and so forth that doesn't mean his ship will sink.

Relationships are about being on the same page, behaviors such as more attention, affection, making time for the girl, making her more a part of your life, etc only work when the girl has developed rea love. If you do those things before they love then it will be a turn off, if you do them after love it may actually better the relationship. Basically a guys same exact behavior will have different outcomes based on the state of where the girl is.

This is also why some girls just bounce around from one guy to another or stay in abusive relationships, these girls for whatever reason never love and therefore only like a guy who is in your stage one and two.

On the other end a girl who isn't damaged and devlopes love fairly quickly will actually be turned off by a guy who remains the alpha uncaring role

The reason the ops ideas apply alot is because now a days it seems more and more people including women are reluctant to love often because of daddy issues or being hurt before or poor self esteem or whatever.

This, I don't got much but repped lol

[JCDub]

HOLY FUKIN **** OP...my relationship is near/at stage 4.. HOW THE **** DO I TURN BACK?

would really appreciate someones help in a PM.

[ElijahX]

Great post. Ive been with my current gf 4 months, and so far everything has been great. I don't want something like this to happen though, any tips on how to avoid falling into this cycle?

[CerealGuy]

Stuck in stage 5 srs wat the **** do I do

[marserval]

Nice thread OP, naturally, i have a few questions....
in relation to the push/pull method... is there a sort of "limit" of time you spend with her? (hours a day when you see her, as well as times a week you should see her)
If you stay alpha, wont she notice youre uninterested and "move on" to "someone that cares"?
should you do this at even early stages of a relationship? or does it work during any stage?

[Granrey]

OP described my long marriage pretty well. However, there is something that I think it should be added between previous generations and new ones.

Prior Stage 3, the woman has a strong shield that do not let other men to enter in. By stage 3, the shield has weaken.

In previous generations, for the average woman it was very dificult to find a replacement man on stage 3. Thats why when something was wrong, she and him would do the best to fix it.

I highly suggest to watch the movie: The bridges of Madison County. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112579/ Clint Eastwood and Merryl Strip (1995)

Very clear the woman is in stage 3 but since she lives with few technology (the movie is based on lifestyle of the 60's) she continues in her marrriage until a cool man (not even charming, not white or black knight) shows up at her house asking for directions.

Her dilema was that she fell in love inmediately but was not sure if she would ever find a better man due to how difficult was to meet men for her.

On this age of technology with smart phones, computers, internet, dating sites, datin adds on your email and everything. These tools not only make it easy for her to find a replacement man. This also contributes to erode the shield itself. So, now you jump quicker from stage 1 to 3 quicker and many men are available.

[pecksbrah]

bump

[plsmire]

A lot of truth to OP, been through that and at the time never understood it and after a while realised what a beta kunt I was and how I centered my world around her, therefore naturally when she left me, world = shattered.

I don't regret it though, it's learning experience and maybe it's how we are raised with media and stuff but I wanted to truly love a girl, without the games ie "acting alpha" which pretty much is another way of saying "playing it cool". At the end of the day, I loved the girl, I wanted to see her, I wanted to be affectionate to her, I felt that if she felt the same way then why should I keep a wall up and try act alpha all the time, sometimes you just want to express and let the girl know, yes you are the world to me and I want to be the world to you.

**** didn't fly, we were together for 3 years but good experience nonetheless. Pretty sure I wont fully let my guard down like that again and be completely dependent on another person but at the same time, if you truly love someone, you want to be able to express yourself freely without fearing that you may be seen as "beta" and have her lose respect for you, if that's the case you both aren't probably going to last anyways.

[Shoester]

All very good points on maintaining attraction ITT...

So, for guys who are currently in a relationship that hasen't reached the stage of un-blanace yet, how about we start compiling a list of DAY TO DAY things that we can do to avoid giving the impression to our GF's that we are becoming BETA's.

My thoughts:

Throughout the day, let her initiate the texting/phone calls unless you have something increidbly interesting/exciting to tell her

Limit the "i love you" and "baby" and "affectionate" talk, only reciprocate after she initiates

Every once in awhile, cut phone coversations short because you are really bust doing something (even if you aren't)

Don't immediately return phone calls/texts every once in awhile




After typing those, it sounds like its just one big game that you are playing. But, at the end of the day, I almost think that's necessary to maintain the balance, and just an inherant part of keeping up a relationship.

[jram2323]

strong username to post ratio.

How would you change your list around if the guy is chasing after the girl, acts all beta TO BEGIN WITH, and the girl decides to enter a relationship with him?

[3alaRase]

OP described my long marriage pretty well. However, there is something that I think it should be added between previous generations and new ones.

Prior Stage 3, the woman has a strong shield that do not let other men to enter in. By stage 3, the shield has weaken.

In previous generations, for the average woman it was very dificult to find a replacement man on stage 3. Thats why when something was wrong, she and him would do the best to fix it.

On this age of technology with smart phones, computers, internet, dating sites, datin adds on your email and everything. These tools not only make it easy for her to find a replacement man. This also contributes to erode the shield itself. So, now you jump quicker from stage 1 to 3 quicker and many men are available.

This man brings up a great point.

With the rise of modern feminism and technology a woman [is made to believe she] no longer has to settle down with one man [regardless of how great a man he really is]. It certainly gives her an endless supply.

I don't think it's the mans' fault all the time; I mean the man should always be in control, the leader, and dominant. But even then, you have to realize that we are human. Most of us have no sense of morality, loyalty or self-control. Hence it would be natural to assume that the woman simply got bored and wanted a 'new spark' in her life. Again she could be with Mr. Perfect, but she still wouldn't feel satisfied because deep down she is unhappy with herself - she merely seeks a partner to mask those feelings.


Maybe the real fault is that the relationship became too routine? Or that she simply wasn't as great as you made her to be (ie. she's an insecure woman who needs validation from other men to feel valued because deep down she is an unhappy and miserable person)?

Or could it be that modern feminism has led women to become more narcissistic?