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  1. #2881
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    stole this from josh's log but i think it may help some of you guys who have mixed opinions on why your weight is stalling and what to do


    Originally Posted by jhyaduck View Post
    So someone sent me a PM with a question that really related to my current situation, body weight plateauing while leaning out. Although with my current situation, we (Jim and I) have found the solution, I thought I would share with everyone his question and my response to it as I'm sure it could help a lot of you out.

    Originally Posted by louferiggno7
    hey man first im sure u hear this alot but Damn dude.. u have a crazy physique. I've seen jim a few times and i think u easily have him in maybe a year or two, easily. but my question was in contest prep. i have always known its been calories in v. calories out. but my first prep i focused on a 500 calories deficit and i plateaud and i always wondered why. so i bumped my cals from 2200-2000 and i started goin. then i plateaud again. so i guess my question is how can u really keep track of the "IN v. OUT'' when ur maintenance is always changing as you lean out?

    do u think u could show me an outline of what ur prep looks and i maybe i can work out that?

    thanx man
    I appreciate the compliment! I do hear that a lot and even Jim himself tells me all the time that he thinks I will be the future of Natural Bodybuilding. It's a lot to accept and a lot to live up to, as I never thought myself to be such, but we'll just see how things play out over the next couple years!

    Your question is a good one, not the average question that I get which can simply be researched in a matter of minutes...

    The truth is, I can't tell you what to do as far as calories are concerned. I have had the same problem for literally months! Which is why I have not uploaded any new progress pictures in a while. I have hit a serious plateau but have just recently found out how to break it. This may or may not be the solution to your problem.

    I have been cutting off of 1700-1900 calories for the past 3 months and have been stuck around 172-175lbs for 1-2 months. Weight training 5 days a week on top of HIIT 5-7 times a week, sometimes even multiple times a day! When you reach a plateau you can do one of two things. First you can decrease calories, which it sounds like you have done. Second you can increase expenditure per day via more activity. That activity can come from more volume in your weight training, more cardio, or simply just more of everyday activity (chores around the house for example).

    So really, it is still calories in vs. calories out.

    Now there comes a point where it's just too risky to reduce calories any further, which is why Jim has refused to let me drop under 1700 calories. So he kept telling me that I simply had to put out more expenditure. Well, I got to the point where I started doing cardio 3-5 times a day on top of weight training to prove to him that something was not right. There was no reason why I should have been plateauing from all of that expenditure. The answer was, I had been overtraining. A term that I thought you would never hear me use...but I was, in fact, overtraining. I took 2-3 days of rest, complete rest. No cardio and no weight training while I kept calories the same. I recovered over those few days and hit the gym with an intensity like no other the day that I stepped back into the gym. And it got my weight dropping once again.

    So perhaps you just need a little time to rest. You could be training as hard as you possibly can at the moment but I assure you that if you rest 2 or 3 days you will put out so much more next time you step foot in the gym and that extra "boost" may break your plateau (This is assuming that you have reached the point of overtraining prior to this rest.).

    As for my diet - I do not think it will help you because different things work for different people, but here it is. It's very simple.

    250g Protein
    150g Carbs
    40g Fat

    That's it, everyday. I don't carb cycle or anything. Those macros are actually higher than what I was doing for the past 3 months but I am still losing weight now because I let my body recover. For the past 3 months my macros were as follows.

    250g Protein
    100g Carbs
    30g Fat

    Even those ridiculously low could not get my weight to drop. So I can tell you firsthand, that overtraining is a very real thing.

    I hope this helps. Great question!
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  2. #2882
    in haiti, cut is paused Insight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nickk View Post
    Hi guys,

    I've been gyrating around 163-164 for the past 2 or 3 weeks, and I think it's time to speed it up. I'm not too far from my goal: I hope that by 160 or the high 150s I'll be there.
    I'm currently at 2000 cals per day.
    I've read Insight recommending that once you stall, you should eat at maintenance for a week and then drop down even lower. I don't want to do this for 2 reasons: 1) I want to finish this ASAP, and 2) I don't think I could bear eating quite a lot more and then dropping so low (semi srs).
    Do you guys think it's a good idea if I drop to 1900? 1800?
    You don't have to eat at maintenance for a week. Just take a day or two to refeed, then drop down to 1800 cals and keep going. Or you could just drop down to 1800, but the refeed might make it more tolerable. and then have periodic refeeds once you start to feel like sh*t
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  3. #2883
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    Honestly, not saying this to hate on you at all Insight cos I know you're one sensitive guy lol, but one thing you should all take from his experience is always cut 1000kcals not 500kcals, it just takes so damn long when you're only losing a 1lb a week. Whenever I cut I go 1000kcals below maintenence and just eat really dirty to make up for the lack of food.
    Last edited by godsangina2; 05-28-2010 at 03:54 PM.
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  4. #2884
    in haiti, cut is paused Insight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by godsangina2 View Post
    Honestly, not saying this to hate on you at all Insight cos I know you're one sensitive guy lol, but one thing you should all take from his experience is always cut 1000kcals not 500kcals, it just takes so damn long when you're only losing a 1lb a week. Whenever I cut I go 100kcals below maintenence and just eat really dirty to make up for the lack of food.
    if i had been cutting on a 1000 cal deficit I doubt I'd have been able to keep making progress in the gym.
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  5. #2885
    u mad? wZk.60's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by godsangina2 View Post
    Honestly, not saying this to hate on you at all Insight cos I know you're one sensitive guy lol, but one thing you should all take from his experience is always cut 1000kcals not 500kcals, it just takes so damn long when you're only losing a 1lb a week. Whenever I cut I go 100kcals below maintenence and just eat really dirty to make up for the lack of food.
    That is ****ing retarded.
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  6. #2886
    ♫ ♪ ♫ ♫ ♪ godsangina2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Insight View Post
    if i had been cutting on a 1000 cal deficit I doubt I'd have been able to keep making progress in the gym.
    Personally I would rather either cut and maintain strength or bulk, rather than doing both half assed.
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  7. #2887
    Fast food abs Vaporize's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by godsangina2 View Post
    Personally I would rather either cut and maintain strength or bulk, rather than doing both half assed.
    pls go
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  8. #2888
    Registered User nickk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Insight View Post
    if i had been cutting on a 1000 cal deficit I doubt I'd have been able to keep making progress in the gym.
    Alright fuk it, I'm dropping to 1800 on Monday.
    Strength dropped by a bit when I first started my cut and has remained at that level ever since (3 months).
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  9. #2889
    in haiti, cut is paused Insight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by godsangina2 View Post
    Personally I would rather either cut and maintain strength or bulk, rather than doing both half assed.
    lol, well i'll give you this: at the beginning, had i known i was really like 23-24% bodyfat instead of thinking i was like 17%, i would have run a 1000 cal deficit back then. at this point i'm lean enough that i'm barely maintaining strength on a 500 cal deficit, so i'm not going to push it. i'm happy with how things are going for now.
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  10. #2890
    in haiti, cut is paused Insight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nickk View Post
    Alright fuk it, I'm dropping to 1800 on Monday.
    Strength dropped by a bit when I first started my cut and has remained at that level ever since (3 months).
    take this with a grain of salt, but i would definitely recommend at least having a singly refeed day first. i've had to cut down twice now (first from 2000 to 1800 and then from 1800 to 1600) and with every cut it

    a) becomes harder to make progress in the gym, and
    b) makes hunger levels go up and make you feel like sh*t

    refeeding once a week helps with both of those things. just work out the caloric math so that your refeed isn't so massive that it undoes the rest of the week.
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  11. #2891
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    Originally Posted by godsangina2 View Post
    Honestly, not saying this to hate on you at all Insight cos I know you're one sensitive guy lol, but one thing you should all take from his experience is always cut 1000kcals not 500kcals, it just takes so damn long when you're only losing a 1lb a week. Whenever I cut I go 1000kcals below maintenence and just eat really dirty to make up for the lack of food.
    I'm eating like 500 below maintenance and losing 3/4lb per week WHILST maintaining muscle/strength.


    Feels good to have fast metabolism, maaaan
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  12. #2892
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    Originally Posted by Insight View Post
    take this with a grain of salt, but i would definitely recommend at least having a singly refeed day first. i've had to cut down twice now (first from 2000 to 1800 and then from 1800 to 1600) and with every cut it

    a) becomes harder to make progress in the gym, and
    b) makes hunger levels go up and make you feel like sh*t

    refeeding once a week helps with both of those things. just work out the caloric math so that your refeed isn't so massive that it undoes the rest of the week.
    reduce training volume with each successive drop in calories, or you will sex ur own butt
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  13. #2893
    in haiti, cut is paused Insight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by makavelicss View Post
    I'm eating like 500 below maintenance and losing 3/4lb per week WHILST maintaining muscle/strength.


    Feels good to have fast metabolism, maaaan
    If you're losing 4 lbs a week you aren't 500 below maintenance, you're like 2000 below maintenance

    just curious how many cals are you eating? are you running ec or something similar?

    Originally Posted by belmont316 View Post
    reduce training volume with each successive drop in calories, or you will sex ur own butt
    lol yeah dude i had to learn that the hard way

    there's something addictive about going to failure on every set
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  14. #2894
    PHD in Broscience Tough92's Avatar
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    Question guys how often should i have a refeed day?I usually have one once a week but now im thinking of doing 1 every 2 weeks since my weight is kind of stalling and layne norton also mentions have one every 2 weeks if you are an endo like me.

    Macros

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    not keto just low carb
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  15. #2895
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    Originally Posted by I Tough I View Post
    Question guys how often should i have a refeed day?I usually have one once a week but now im thinking of doing 1 every 2 weeks since my weight is kind of stalling and layne norton also mentions have one every 2 weeks if you are an endo like me.

    Macros

    cals-1600
    pro-212
    car-42
    fat-68

    not keto just low carb
    IMO lower protein, up carbs. Same cals.
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    Lookin nd feeling dam good right now...1week into the 2nd cut...starting animal cuts on monday...hopefully i will finally lose the little fat i have on my stomach...ive alrdy lost some fat on my stomach since my avi pick so we will see
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  17. #2897
    in haiti, cut is paused Insight's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by I Tough I View Post
    Question guys how often should i have a refeed day?I usually have one once a week but now im thinking of doing 1 every 2 weeks since my weight is kind of stalling and layne norton also mentions have one every 2 weeks if you are an endo like me.

    Macros

    cals-1600
    pro-212
    car-42
    fat-68

    not keto just low carb
    i've been doing once a week and it's been essential for me. I've tried both of the following: 1800 cals + no refeed, and 1600 cals + once a week large refeed at like 3500 cals. My maintenance is 2300 so both of these work out to be about 1 lb a week lost. Everything's been working better for me at 1600 cals w/ the once a week large refeed.

    At one point I started trying just 1600 cals without the refeed and that's when I started posting in here about strength loss and so on. I'm considering throwing in a second mini-refeed at maintenance once a week too, so I lose 1 lb every 8 days instead of 1 lb every 7 days.

    How you choose to do it is up to you, but in my experience as you get leaner refeeding really does help. your mileage may vary
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  18. #2898
    Registered User Drake7's Avatar
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    I've gone over to lean bulking now. I did it the same way as you Insight. 1600 cals with cheat days once a week or every 5 days or so, just when I felt like it :P
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  19. #2899
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    Originally Posted by Insight View Post
    i've been doing once a week and it's been essential for me. I've tried both of the following: 1800 cals + no refeed, and 1600 cals + once a week large refeed at like 3500 cals. My maintenance is 2300 so both of these work out to be about 1 lb a week lost. Everything's been working better for me at 1600 cals w/ the once a week large refeed.

    At one point I started trying just 1600 cals without the refeed and that's when I started posting in here about strength loss and so on. I'm considering throwing in a second mini-refeed at maintenance once a week too, so I lose 1 lb every 8 days instead of 1 lb every 7 days.

    How you choose to do it is up to you, but in my experience as you get leaner refeeding really does help. your mileage may vary
    Thank for your input!Im gonna go with 2 weeks and see how it goes.As for strength loss well i used to max 250 and rep 200 when i was 223,I was still repping 185 when i was around 190 now im 179 and struggle doing 155 4sets of 8 on bench


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    Originally Posted by Drake7 View Post
    I've gone over to lean bulking now. I did it the same way as you Insight. 1600 cals with cheat days once a week or every 5 days or so, just when I felt like it :P
    just curious, what weight are you down to now? Are you into the 150s now?

    Originally Posted by I Tough I View Post
    Thank for your input!Im gonna go with 2 weeks and see how it goes.As for strength loss well i used to max 250 and rep 200 when i was 223,I was still repping 185 when i was around 190 now im 179 and struggle doing 155 4sets of 8 on bench


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    for sure dude. let us know how it goes. but some of that strength loss might just be from glycogen depletion because of the low-carbing, so it might come right back as soon as the low-carb phase is over. but yeah, feels bad man for sure.
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    been a while since I posted in this thread. I dropped from 175 and over 20% bodyfat (yea, horrible genetics) to 165ish approaching 14%. Hoping to get to 12% before the middle of june. will update pics this coming week if anyone cares lol.
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    Originally Posted by Insight View Post
    just curious, what weight are you down to now? Are you into the 150s now?
    .
    Haha nope, I got down to 75 kgs / 165 lbs. That's what I weighed in the pics I posted too.
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    Down to 192, 1.5lbs in a week. Just cycled off EC and going on vacation this week. thiswillnotendwell.jpg
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    Originally Posted by SUMTINGVEWYWONG View Post
    been a while since I posted in this thread. I dropped from 175 and over 20% bodyfat (yea, horrible genetics) to 165ish approaching 14%. Hoping to get to 12% before the middle of june. will update pics this coming week if anyone cares lol.
    gjdm. you're about where i am then
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    Ok brahs got those pics,188 in the before ones and 177 in the after ones.Any improvement?Im thinking i gotta get down to 160 if i ever wanna see abs


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    223


    188


    177


    223


    188


    177
    Last edited by I Tough I; 05-29-2010 at 10:41 AM.
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    ^Very noticeable improvement but posing advice don't raise your head/neck like that in MM poses it doesn't really add to the pose.

    You look less than 177 though you actually are starting to look like a skinny person you're almost at the point where its time to start gaining mass unless you won't feel done till you have abs.
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    Originally Posted by i_will View Post
    Down to 192, 1.5lbs in a week. Just cycled off EC and going on vacation this week. thiswillnotendwell.jpg
    haah it wont,As much as u try to eat well u wont so dont even bother lol,Just go and enjoy yourself and when u come back go back to eating clean and up the cardio


    Originally Posted by Big Slim DaDDy View Post
    ^Very noticeable improvement but posing advice don't raise your head/neck like that in MM poses it doesn't really add to the pose.

    You look less than 177 though you actually are starting to look like a skinny person you're almost at the point where its time to start gaining mass unless you won't feel done till you have abs.
    thx ill keep that in mind,Yea i want abs but i also dont wanna be to skinny.But im def not done yet because my stomach is still not flat.Ill prob continue cutting until im lean enough im thinking 165,The long lean bulk
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    Originally Posted by I Tough I View Post
    h




    my stomach is still not flat.
    You look like you might be slouching a bit in the side poses which would make your stomach look less flat.
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    Originally Posted by Big Slim DaDDy View Post
    You look like you might be slouching a bit in the side poses which would make your stomach look less flat.
    i might be but my stomach is no were near being flat sadly.Im hoping 10 more pounds n it will be flat
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