How many lbs untill i have a flat stomach/abs

[your_boy_Al]

Then I stick by my original advice. Pull ups, chin ups, push ups, dragon flags, oblique and incline crunches. High protein, low carb diet. Run. Some light weight sessions; bench and fly press, military press, deadlifts, squats. Repeat for 6 months. You'll be ripped.

[Alek]

A lot of people on this forum are biased towards body-building, so they'll give you bodybuilding theories. If you want to look like those guys from the pics you posted, then you need to focus on cutting WHILE exercising hard to preserve muscle. Since they don't have much muscle, that'll be easy to do... just focus on cutting, eating less, cardio and exercising with weights/pushups/pullups/chins. You don't need a bulk to look like those guys, just making sure you have intensity in the gym will suffice.

Heck, you can look like those guys without ever lifting a weight in your life. A lot of them are built on chinups, pushups, pullups alone.

[Phatso]

thanks you repped for both

[your_boy_Al]

thanks you repped for both

Cheers dude. I racked up -500 by accusing a Youtube roid ape of reverse anorexia :|

[rufretic]

thanks you repped for both

And I'm going to neg them both for giving you sh*tty advice. Your repping the wrong people, there is a reason why they have no rep power, because they don't know what they are talking about. I know that it's nice to hear what you want, that it's easy to look like that, just lose the body fat, but they are wrong. Unfortunately it will take a lot more work than that to look like those guys. If you want to diet for another year and then still look like sh*t, listen to those two. If you want to even have a chance at looking like the two guys you posted, then listen to me and viper. The guys in the pictures you posted are small but still have a ton more muscle than you. They probably weigh less than you because they are much shorter but proportionally, they have way more muscle. It is not easy to gain muscle and believe me those guys did not get looking like they do by diet alone. Some people do have more muscle naturally so it is possible they look like that without heavy weight training but it is unlikely and even if so you do not have that much muscle mass naturally and that means you have to work harder to look like that. If you honestly want to look like them, your going to need at least a year of building muscle. With your height you are going to need to gain at least 10-15lbs of muscle to look even close to that and it's very unlikely you can put that much on in less than a year. It is possible for you to achieve that goal but don't waste your time doing cardio and dieting. Start lifting heavy now and you might be able to put on enough muscle to hit your goal in a year or two. Once you've gained some muscle you can start cutting and try to get your bf% real low. If you could even get your bf% that low right now, you would look anorexic, not athletic like the the guys you posted. I'm done trying to help you. Good luck.

[southern_pride]

dunno

[Workman80]

And I'm going to neg them both for giving you sh*tty advice. Your repping the wrong people, there is a reason why they have no rep power, because they don't know what they are talking about. I know that it's nice to hear what you want, that it's easy to look like that, just lose the body fat, but they are wrong. Unfortunately it will take a lot more work than that to look like those guys. If you want to diet for another year and then still look like sh*t, listen to those two. If you want to even have a chance at looking like the two guys you posted, then listen to me and viper. The guys in the pictures you posted are small but still have a ton more muscle than you. They probably weigh less than you because they are much shorter but proportionally, they have way more muscle. It is not easy to gain muscle and believe me those guys did not get looking like they do by diet alone. Some people do have more muscle naturally so it is possible they look like that without heavy weight training but it is unlikely and even if so you do not have that much muscle mass naturally and that means you have to work harder to look like that. If you honestly want to look like them, your going to need at least a year of building muscle. With your height you are going to need to gain at least 10-15lbs of muscle to look even close to that and it's very unlikely you can put that much on in less than a year. It is possible for you to achieve that goal but don't waste your time doing cardio and dieting. Start lifting heavy now and you might be able to put on enough muscle to hit your goal in a year or two. Once you've gained some muscle you can start cutting and try to get your bf% real low. If you could even get your bf% that low right now, you would look anorexic, not athletic like the the guys you posted. I'm done trying to help you. Good luck.

OP...He is right. For years I was all about just cardio & diet. What I found is that you will just end up with the same body type, but smaller. About 3 years ago I started mainly focusing on Weight Training; and although I still have a ways to go...I am much closer to my goals and the body type I have always tried working for. It takes time and Patience. The more muscle you have, the easier it is to keep off the unwanted weight and maintain a good physique.

[morning_wood]

OP is going to cut no matter what you guys tell him.

[Phatso]

OP is going to cut no matter what you guys tell him.

nah i wont. I'll bulk then, its just irritates me sometimes where people shout out 3 different suggestions.

however to the post few above mine -


1) only 10-15lbs of muscle? i thought i could do more than that.


2) also i dont see how that would take me two years, especially the first photo. 9months of hard /clean bulking and the 3or4 months of cutting ? im not trying too look too ripped. i just dont want to be skinny fat.





thanks for all the help

[Brad155]

nah i wont. I'll bulk then, its just irritates me sometimes where people shout out 3 different suggestions.

however to the post few above mine -


1) only 10-15lbs of muscle? i thought i could do more than that.


2) also i dont see how that would take me two years, especially the first photo. 9months of hard /clean bulking and the 3or4 months of cutting ? im not trying too look too ripped. i just dont want to be skinny fat.





thanks for all the help

muscle gain comes very slowly, cutting weight is the easy part. 15 lbs is actually a very generous amount, but being a beginner you should be able to do that. keep your calories controlled, do not go overboard. keeping your bulk CLEAN is the most important thing for skinnyfats. if you can put on maybe 25 pounds (muscle+water+glycogen+minimal fat) u should be able to come out with a MUCH better looking body comp, although you still wont look great unfortanately... but after a year of putting on good weight, 4-5 more months of strict dieting and you will have the body of the guy in the pics u posted.

[Phatso]

muscle gain comes very slowly, cutting weight is the easy part. 15 lbs is actually a very generous amount, but being a beginner you should be able to do that. keep your calories controlled, do not go overboard. keeping your bulk CLEAN is the most important thing for skinnyfats. if you can put on maybe 25 pounds (muscle+water+glycogen+minimal fat) u should be able to come out with a MUCH better looking body comp, although you still wont look great unfortanately... but after a year of putting on good weight, 4-5 more months of strict dieting and you will have the body of the guy in the pics u posted.

ok thanks.

also i have a quickk question - supplaments wise i bought 100% whey protein shake and BSN n-o explode.
is that suuficent. i really dont even know why NO explode is taken. is it a createin or a performance booster? and am i alright to take it?

[Alek]

And I'm going to neg them both for giving you sh*tty advice. Your repping the wrong people, there is a reason why they have no rep power, because they don't know what they are talking about. I know that it's nice to hear what you want, that it's easy to look like that, just lose the body fat, but they are wrong. Unfortunately it will take a lot more work than that to look like those guys. If you want to diet for another year and then still look like sh*t, listen to those two. If you want to even have a chance at looking like the two guys you posted, then listen to me and viper. The guys in the pictures you posted are small but still have a ton more muscle than you. They probably weigh less than you because they are much shorter but proportionally, they have way more muscle. It is not easy to gain muscle and believe me those guys did not get looking like they do by diet alone. Some people do have more muscle naturally so it is possible they look like that without heavy weight training but it is unlikely and even if so you do not have that much muscle mass naturally and that means you have to work harder to look like that. If you honestly want to look like them, your going to need at least a year of building muscle. With your height you are going to need to gain at least 10-15lbs of muscle to look even close to that and it's very unlikely you can put that much on in less than a year. It is possible for you to achieve that goal but don't waste your time doing cardio and dieting. Start lifting heavy now and you might be able to put on enough muscle to hit your goal in a year or two. Once you've gained some muscle you can start cutting and try to get your bf% real low. If you could even get your bf% that low right now, you would look anorexic, not athletic like the the guys you posted. I'm done trying to help you. Good luck.

Nobody recommended that he ONLY do dieting&cardio, lol. You'll see the recommendation was more like a P90X recommendation (focus on cardio/cut with preserving muscle)

I think you projected from personal experience. I'm guessing you went the route of over-dieting, over-cardio and didn't do resistance exercise enough, lost a lot of muscle and felt weak and small? You're now assuming everyone else would do the same and feel the same way so you want to save them from making that error?

Here is an example of a guy in roughly the same situation, going for a cut (not a bulk):
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121890031 He went the route of cutting first, and he will NOW do a bulk.

Phatso:

- Here's an example of how a good cut will look like for you - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121890031 - you can get to this, and then afterward do a bulk to add more muscle

- If you do a clean-bulk as the others recommend, you will end up recomping a bit, i.e. you will lose the skinny-fat look and look more like a football player, you can THEN do a cut to remove the fat.

Both options are viable, and neither is evil, wrong or bad. Make the choice on personal preference, not fear.

[skullcrusher149]

OP, have you lost a lot of weight recently? If so, I'd say just keep cutting until you hit a weight where you feel comfortable in and then start bulking from there. It looks like you're going to have quite a bit of loose skin on your stomach so I don't really forsee a flat stomach in your near future until you have more muscle mass, but you might as well just cut to a weight where you can convince yourself that bulking is the only answer.

[IWAAE]

Dont do it, I've been through this before too. Bulk first

[lingski]

I would reccomend P90x. It sounds like this is the kind of system you want. I have done bulk / cut. And you are right many people have different goals. your goal, fastest results = p90x or insanity.

[Phatso]

OP, have you lost a lot of weight recently? If so, I'd say just keep cutting until you hit a weight where you feel comfortable in and then start bulking from there. It looks like you're going to have quite a bit of loose skin on your stomach so I don't really forsee a flat stomach in your near future until you have more muscle mass, but you might as well just cut to a weight where you can convince yourself that bulking is the only answer.

did PSMF for 14days - lost 10lbs


since then (from two weeks ago) i have lost 4lbs.
so yes i am currently cuting.


im getting so many mixed opinions atm. some are telling me to bulk while others are telling me to cut then bulk.

why cant i just cut, preerve any left muscle i have in my body and from then bulk ? please dont rage at me im jus really confused by the mixed opinions.

[Phatso]

I would reccomend P90x. It sounds like this is the kind of system you want. I have done bulk / cut. And you are right many people have different goals. your goal, fastest results = p90x or insanity.

can i have a link to either diet ?
thanks

[Shaderer]

did PSMF for 14days - lost 10lbs


since then (from two weeks ago) i have lost 4lbs.
so yes i am currently cuting.


im getting so many mixed opinions atm. some are telling me to bulk while others are telling me to cut then bulk.

why cant i just cut, preerve any left muscle i have in my body and from then bulk ? please dont rage at me im jus really confused by the mixed opinions.

I know it's uncomfortable to start bulking at such a high BF%.. but trust me.. I'm at where you want to achieve.. I've shrunk and my BF% isn't going down much at all. I'm bulking in a week or two.

[t1ger]

why cant i just cut, preerve any left muscle i have in my body and from then bulk ? please dont rage at me im jus really confused by the mixed opinions.

I understand your concern. You're really self concious because of your body, and you want to cut down so you can get a decent one.

The only real difference is if you cut now you'll look OK when you're finished cutting. If you bulk now, and then cut - you'll look better, but it will take some more time. It would help your selfesteem to get rid of some fat, and isn't that what it is all about?

In the end it's all up to you. You don't have to listen to anyone if you think they are wrong. Everyone that has given you advice in this thread are just giving you advice from their perspective and experience, but it doesn't mean they are right. Or wrong.

Good luck. Remember that ever choice is a right choice.

[dondinero13]

phatso i say do a clean bulk , i mean you really dont have much muscle to work with so whats the point of cutting down..yea you might loose some body fat but your arms are already looking puny (no offense) so i could only imagine if you do cut. To answer your questions about NO explode is a pre work out drink to give you more energy and get some decent pumps. About 100% whey, yea take that in the morning with breakfast and post work out , and just eat alot of high protein foods (chicken , fish , steaks...etc). hope that helps.

[Phatso]

phatso i say do a clean bulk , i mean you really dont have much muscle to work with so whats the point of cutting down..yea you might loose some body fat but your arms are already looking puny (no offense) so i could only imagine if you do cut. To answer your questions about NO explode is a pre work out drink to give you more energy and get some decent pumps. About 100% whey, yea take that in the morning with breakfast and post work out , and just eat alot of high protein foods (chicken , fish , steaks...etc). hope that helps.

thanks. however im more concerned with my fat than being concerned about looking massive now.

[rufretic]

Nobody recommended that he ONLY do dieting&cardio, lol. You'll see the recommendation was more like a P90X recommendation (focus on cardio/cut with preserving muscle)

I think you projected from personal experience. I'm guessing you went the route of over-dieting, over-cardio and didn't do resistance exercise enough, lost a lot of muscle and felt weak and small? You're now assuming everyone else would do the same and feel the same way so you want to save them from making that error?

Here is an example of a guy in roughly the same situation, going for a cut (not a bulk):
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121890031 He went the route of cutting first, and he will NOW do a bulk.

Phatso:

- Here's an example of how a good cut will look like for you - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121890031 - you can get to this, and then afterward do a bulk to add more muscle

- If you do a clean-bulk as the others recommend, you will end up recomping a bit, i.e. you will lose the skinny-fat look and look more like a football player, you can THEN do a cut to remove the fat.

Both options are viable, and neither is evil, wrong or bad. Make the choice on personal preference, not fear.

This is why you got negged:
"Heck, you can look like those guys without ever lifting a weight in your life. A lot of them are built on chinups, pushups, pullups alone."
That's a very, very ignorant statement and you got negged for it.

And no, this is not my "personal experience". I've never been skinny fat, I've always been athletic and had a good amount of muscle. My advice to op is specifically for his body type. Not everyone can follow the same path. That guy you posted has way more muscle than op. He did a very successful cut because he had muscle to begin with, it makes a huge difference when recommending the right thing to do. If op looked anything like that guys before he could definitely do a cut. Op has a very difficult starting place, he's skinny fat. I know from seeing others with the same problem fail time and time again trying to get "cut". It doesn't work for skinny fat people, they need some muscle first.

I know it's uncomfortable to start bulking at such a high BF%.. but trust me.. I'm at where you want to achieve.. I've shrunk and my BF% isn't going down much at all. I'm bulking in a week or two.

OP...He is right. For years I was all about just cardio & diet. What I found is that you will just end up with the same body type, but smaller. About 3 years ago I started mainly focusing on Weight Training; and although I still have a ways to go...I am much closer to my goals and the body type I have always tried working for. It takes time and Patience. The more muscle you have, the easier it is to keep off the unwanted weight and maintain a good physique.

Dont do it, I've been through this before too. Bulk first

phatso i say do a clean bulk , i mean you really dont have much muscle to work with so whats the point of cutting down..yea you might loose some body fat but your arms are already looking puny (no offense) so i could only imagine if you do cut. To answer your questions about NO explode is a pre work out drink to give you more energy and get some decent pumps. About 100% whey, yea take that in the morning with breakfast and post work out , and just eat alot of high protein foods (chicken , fish , steaks...etc). hope that helps.

muscle gain comes very slowly, cutting weight is the easy part. 15 lbs is actually a very generous amount, but being a beginner you should be able to do that. keep your calories controlled, do not go overboard. keeping your bulk CLEAN is the most important thing for skinnyfats. if you can put on maybe 25 pounds (muscle+water+glycogen+minimal fat) u should be able to come out with a MUCH better looking body comp, although you still wont look great unfortanately... but after a year of putting on good weight, 4-5 more months of strict dieting and you will have the body of the guy in the pics u posted.

All good advise from people that sound like they understand why cutting is a bad option for someone who is skinny fat.

thanks. however im more concerned with my fat than being concerned about looking massive now.

Trust me, you don't have to worry about "looking massive" lol. It takes people years and years of very intense diet and training to get massive. You will still be small and weak after a year of hardcore lifting and eating good BUT you will be a little bigger and stronger than you are now which is a very good thing if you want to look anything like the guys you posted who actually have a good amount of muscle development compared to you.

[EvuLFleA]

Losing much more weight with a frame like that you'll just look sickly and not fit.

Spend some time in the gym, pack on some muscle, eat healthy, and give it some time.

[Alek]

why cant i just cut, preerve any left muscle i have in my body and from then bulk ? please dont rage at me im jus really confused by the mixed opinions.

The reason you're getting confused and conflicting info is because the people who are telling you to bulk first, are people who are bodybuilders and they view the world from that perspective and with those theories. They have a different view of reality, a different opinion of what looks good, or what is "small" or what is acceptable. What is to them a "terrible result", to you could actually be a pretty darn good result.

If you want to make up your mind, I'd suggest also asking this same question on fitness forums (general fitness, not bodybuilding) or FITNESS TRAINERS (who look like the pics you posted)... And see what recommendations you get there. Ask the question where people want to look like the pics you posted (fitness communities), not where people want to look like a bodybuilder (most people on this forum). Also check out the adonis effect and podcasts, which discuss this kinda stuff.

Male Fashion Models (no fat, no muscle) are for example "sickly looking and terrible" in the opinion of these people who are dissuading you from cutting. But from what I can tell, you have no problem looking like a male-fashion-model first... and then adding muscle. And that's worst-case scenario, you can't even get to having so little muscle as them, as you plan on resistance training while you cut (which will preserve a lot more muscle than fashion models have)... ESPECIALLY if you do something like P90X.

[mchoodie]

OP, it's harder to gain muscle while cutting, and you need muscle in order to look like your target goals, and not just a beanstock. Start eating right, just don't cut your calories back until you add to that frame.

[biggerthanlavar]

The best advice I can give you is to forget about abs right now. if you cut, you'll look like Christian Bale in "The Machinist". Google images if you don't know what that looks like.

I'd say clean bulk at 250 cals above maintenance. Lift hard and heavy, sleep train like your life depends on it. you need to add muscle.

good luck.

[your_boy_Al]

And I'm going to neg them both for giving you sh*tty advice. Your repping the wrong people, there is a reason why they have no rep power, because they don't know what they are talking about.

LOL! Whatever, mate! If you check my pictures I actually HAVE the kind of body OP is specifically training for, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

[Phatso]

so.
much.
****ing.
confusion.

[Alek]

so.
much.
****ing.
confusion.

I'll suggest the same KEY-point again. If you want to solve your confusion GO HIRE A PERSONAL FITNESS trainer in real life that looks like the guys whose pics you posted. Don't ask bodybuilders. Trust me, your confusion will be solved the moment you stop asking on forums and ask a real-life FITNESS coach (not-bodybuilder). Guys here have a disdain for skinny guys (which you don't mind looking as).

[Henri642]

so.
much.
****ing.
confusion.

stop with the dots and fancy sentence format youre not confused you understand everything every one else told you and you dont accept it, you should stop eating at mcdonalds eating pizza and drinking beer and focus on gaining mass now you look like a botched anorexic , i dont know why the hell this thread is still going on when you should have got off the computer 1 page ago and started eating. You look like that because you were blessed with slim genetics like cam gigandet but instead your moron ass ate crap thinking you were bulletproof to fat gain. Wrong. Now you look like a slob, youll look even worse if you loose weight, youll have people asking if you took crystal meth. I seriously hope you do cut THEN post pictures in this same thread so we can all laugh our asses off .

edit: and man your ****ing 6 foot 6 ... wtf? cam gigandet is probably 5 foot 5, you wanna look like a pussy ? A tall ass skinny pussy lol ? If i was as tall as you all I would care about is my potential to look like a monster. You have no will