What % of BF do you need before you can clearly see abs?

[thenexlevel]

I been slowly dropping my weight and my bf% while maintaining my lean mass and i'm coming in around 188lbs now being 5'10" with around 14.6-15.0% body fat using measurements. When I flex my abs, I can see very little abs coming out but still a lot of fat over it especially the lower section...my chest, shoulders and back looks impressive to me but not my gut and i hate it!

I just dont' see myself able to drop much more weight, my goal is 175lbs but that seems like its out of reach unless I just drop my heavy lifting and go cardio only.

I haven't been doing much ab work since everyone says spot reduction is impossible and abs will naturally come out when the bf% goes down. I was thinking about getting lipoderm-ultra or something for my gut but then there is mixed reviews from people on bb.com.

[flexxdzl]

about 10 -13% ...also ou need to make sure your body fat % that youre using is right

[barook]

I been slowly dropping my weight and my bf% while maintaining my lean mass and i'm coming in around 188lbs now being 5'10" with around 14.6-15.0% body fat using measurements. When I flex my abs, I can see very little abs coming out but still a lot of fat over it especially the lower section...my chest, shoulders and back looks impressive to me but not my gut and i hate it!

I just dont' see myself able to drop much more weight, my goal is 175lbs but that seems like its out of reach unless I just drop my heavy lifting and go cardio only.

I haven't been doing much ab work since everyone says spot reduction is impossible and abs will naturally come out when the bf% goes down. I was thinking about getting lipoderm-ultra or something for my gut but then there is mixed reviews from people on bb.com.

well your right about needing to lower your BF, but the part about not doing ab work is not right. you can't spot reduce, but you can gain ab muscle by treating it like other muscles and working on it, which will increase their size. keep in mind though, you won't gain muscle on a deficit.

[Cape1]

I been slowly dropping my weight and my bf% while maintaining my lean mass and i'm coming in around 188lbs now being 5'10" with around 14.6-15.0% body fat using measurements. When I flex my abs, I can see very little abs coming out but still a lot of fat over it especially the lower section...my chest, shoulders and back looks impressive to me but not my gut and i hate it!

I just dont' see myself able to drop much more weight, my goal is 175lbs but that seems like its out of reach unless I just drop my heavy lifting and go cardio only.

I haven't been doing much ab work since everyone says spot reduction is impossible and abs will naturally come out when the bf% goes down. I was thinking about getting lipoderm-ultra or something for my gut but then there is mixed reviews from people on bb.com.

depends on your genetics, how and where you store body fat and the level of development of your abs. Some guys can have abs at 20%; other, less muscular guys, will need to be much leaner.

[spedfrk]

I been slowly dropping my weight and my bf% while maintaining my lean mass and i'm coming in around 188lbs now being 5'10" with around 14.6-15.0% body fat using measurements. When I flex my abs, I can see very little abs coming out but still a lot of fat over it especially the lower section...my chest, shoulders and back looks impressive to me but not my gut and i hate it!

I just dont' see myself able to drop much more weight, my goal is 175lbs but that seems like its out of reach unless I just drop my heavy lifting and go cardio only.

I haven't been doing much ab work since everyone says spot reduction is impossible and abs will naturally come out when the bf% goes down. I was thinking about getting lipoderm-ultra or something for my gut but then there is mixed reviews from people on bb.com.

Sounds like you are on the right path just keep wokring on it!

[ahn.tae]

around 10%

[ejthomp]

.........I just dont' see myself able to drop much more weight, my goal is 175lbs but that seems like its out of reach unless I just drop my heavy lifting and go cardio only.......

You get lean through diet..... Why don't you see yourself able to drop down to 175? Don't you have the discipline over what you put in your mouth?

Going to only cardio is the worst thing you can do....

Just seems like you have some mixed up thoughts going through your head...

1- Diet will get your body fat down
2- Weight lifting will keep your muscle mass
3- Cardio will burn some extra calories

Don't confuse the roles of each.

[BallAb0veAll]

Well think of it this way, if you didn't have the shoulder muscles that you do then it would look like you have muscle there covered in whatever body fat is there.

Now since the gut is where guys tend to gain fat its harder to get visible abs. You need to work those abs so they can emerge through the layer of fat you have there.

[Cape1]

Well think of it this way, if you didn't have the shoulder muscles that you do then it would look like you have muscle there covered in whatever body fat is there.

Now since the gut is where guys tend to gain fat its harder to get visible abs. You need to work those abs so they can emerge through the layer of fat you have there.

Direct Ab work is about as usefulll as forearm work, bicep curls and tricep extensions.

[thenexlevel]

Alright guess i'll have to do some abs now Question, for abs is it better to follow what I have been doing which is lower reps/sets but with weights or go with the traditional method of no weights and concenrtate on more reps/sets?

[Cape1]

Alright guess i'll have to do some abs now Question, for abs is it better to follow what I have been doing which is lower reps/sets but with weights or go with the traditional method of no weights and concenrtate on more reps/sets?

Best movements for abs (all with the heaviest weight you can deal with without a belt):
*Squats
*Bent over rows
*Straight Leg Deadlifts

Most Direct Ab work is a useless waste of time. Not to say Exercizing your Core is not important. It is. Develop a good core workout that does not include the useless isolated ab movements, movements that neither improve your abdominal strength nor develop a stronger core.

[thenexlevel]

Best movements for abs (all with the heaviest weight you can deal with without a belt):
*Squats
*Bent over rows
*Straight Leg Deadlifts

Most Direct Ab work is a useless waste of time. Not to say Exercizing your Core is not important. It is. Develop a good core workout that does not include the useless isolated ab movements, movements that neither improve your abdominal strength nor develop a stronger core.

I think u hit it right on the head, thats why I didn't do abs because I have also heard isolated ab movements don't do much...I already do squats, i do deadlifts but not the straight leg and do bent over rows...but i don't feel abs much in any of those ???

[chaser1712]

I think u hit it right on the head, thats why I didn't do abs because I have also heard isolated ab movements don't do much...I already do squats, i do deadlifts but not the straight leg and do bent over rows...but i don't feel abs much in any of those ???

Do you tighten your core on these lifts? You wanna keep your abs flexed on these. I definitely feel the burn much more while doing isolated ab exercises though.

[biggerthanlavar]

I disagree slightly on the direct ab work. Nothing strengthens your core like deads, standing OH presses, squats and Olympic lifts in general. However, crunches and a few other direct ab exercises can only help. BB'ers like weighted ab exercises. It really just depends on your goals but I do a little bit of direct ab work once a week. Boxers have been doing direct ab work for centuries. If it works for them, it's not a waste of time for us.

I do agree about the forearm's and tricep extensions though lol.


to the OP 10-13% is the average for most where you see abs. It really depends on your genetics though. I have a pic where I'm in the 14-15 neighborhood and my abs are very slightly visible.

edit - here's that pic:

[chaser1712]

I disagree slightly on the direct ab work. Nothing strengthens your core like deads, standing OH presses, squats and Olympic lifts in general. However, crunches and a few other direct ab exercises can only help. BB'ers like weighted ab exercises. It really just depends on your goals but I do a little bit of direct ab work once a week. Boxers have been doing direct ab work for centuries. If it works for them, it's not a waste of time for us.

I do agree about the forearm's and tricep extensions though lol.


to the OP 10-13% is the average for most where you see abs. It really depends on your genetics though. I have a pic where I'm in the 14-15 neighborhood and my abs are very slightly visible.

edit - here's that pic:

Damn I have to be less than 10 for my abs to be visible. LOL. I seem to store literally all of my body fat on my stomach (just about).

[biggerthanlavar]

Damn I have to be less than 10 for my abs to be visible. LOL. I seem to store literally all of my body fat on my stomach (just about).

I store all my fat in the stomach too...but even when I'm as lean as I've ever been (just above 10%), I still have love handles lol. That's my real problem area.

[Shr3dJunki3]

I disagree slightly on the direct ab work. Nothing strengthens your core like deads, standing OH presses, squats and Olympic lifts in general. However, crunches and a few other direct ab exercises can only help. BB'ers like weighted ab exercises. It really just depends on your goals but I do a little bit of direct ab work once a week. Boxers have been doing direct ab work for centuries. If it works for them, it's not a waste of time for us.

I do agree about the forearm's and tricep extensions though lol.


to the OP 10-13% is the average for most where you see abs. It really depends on your genetics though. I have a pic where I'm in the 14-15 neighborhood and my abs are very slightly visible.

edit - here's that pic:

Haha, "very slightly visible", you mean kind of? Not making fun, I just found it kinda funny.

[Cape1]

Boxers are doing ab work a whole different way and they are not getting ab work from other movements that Power lifters and bodybuilders do. That's why it works for them.

Actually bodybuilders vary as to how they view ab work. Like many things, some guys I know swear by it; others, like me, think it's useless.

I still do a little direct ab work but I view isolated abs and Core movements as two different things. Also, I use direct abs like I use any finishing movement.

Example, by the time I'm doing doing bent over bar bell rows with 275#, I don't think that doing 10 sets of bicep curls is going to do anything more than eat into my recovery ability. curling 80-100 pounds is certainly not going to acheive what the rowing just acheived, right? I'll do a couple of sets of curls to warm up my biceps and a couple after for good measure.

Same with Abs.After a core workout, I might do a few sets of rope pulls.

[Shr3dJunki3]

Most bodybuilders take steroids so of course they can sneeze and grow abs, some natural bodybuilders are squatting some really heavy weight so they probably get a really good core workout, for those of us with no intention of using steroids, or those of us who don't have means of doing squats, or can't squat heavy yet, then I'd definitely go with direct ab work. Doing them indirectly through an exercise almost seems to me like trying to indirectly work your biceps doing chinups or something, it can only get you so far.

[biggerthanlavar]

Boxers are doing ab work a whole different way and they are not getting ab work from other movements that Power lifters and bodybuilders do. That's why it works for them.

Actually bodybuilders vary as to how they view ab work. Like many things, some guys I know swear by it; others, like me, think it's useless.

I still do a little direct ab work but I view isolated abs and Core movements as two different things. Also, I use direct abs like I use any finishing movement.

Example, by the time I'm doing doing bent over bar bell rows with 275#, I don't think that doing 10 sets of bicep curls is going to do anything more than eat into my recovery ability. curling 80-100 pounds is certainly not going to acheive what the rowing just acheived, right? I'll do a couple of sets of curls to warm up my biceps and a couple after for good measure.

Same with Abs.After a core workout, I might do a few sets of rope pulls.

I can't argue w/ any of that. I have pretty much the same philosophy.

[biggerthanlavar]

Haha, "very slightly visible", you mean kind of? Not making fun, I just found it kinda funny.

yea, I meant barely or hardly visible. They're still covered by a pretty thick layer of fat.

[Cape1]

Most bodybuilders take steroids so of course they can sneeze and grow abs, some natural bodybuilders are squatting some really heavy weight so they probably get a really good core workout, for those of us with no intention of using steroids, or those of us who don't have means of doing squats, or can't squat heavy yet, then I'd definitely go with direct ab work. Doing them indirectly through an exercise almost seems to me like trying to indirectly work your biceps doing chinups or something, it can only get you so far.

I wish you could "sneeze and grow" anything just by taking steroids. It doesn't work that way - LMAO - just take my word for it.

ANd, what on God's Earth do you mean by "I can't squat heavy yet"?? YOu might not squat what I do but that doesn't mean what you do squat isn't heavy for you and giving you similar benefit. I'm not a big-time squatter but I do the movement with good form and, therefore, get the benefit. It's all relative. Don't shortchange yourself. THe weight is nothing more than a means to an end. What you lift is individual.

And bingo. This just in bro.... Chin Ups WILL build your biceps MUCH better than bicep curls will. REverse Grip bent over rows will too as will any pulling movement.

My arms aren't huge by any means but they are proportionate. I"m probably close to 18# right now. I hardly ever do direct bicep work. Guess how much direct tricep work I do??? You guessed it. ZERO. The point is: someone needs to tell me exactly why I'm doing some silly-ass tricep movement after I just bench pressed heavy weight.

The point is: don't discount "indirect".

[vgbblife]

I wish you could "sneeze and grow" anything just by taking steroids. It doesn't work that way - LMAO - just take my word for it.

ANd, what on God's Earth do you mean by "I can't squat heavy yet"?? YOu might not squat what I do but that doesn't mean what you do squat isn't heavy for you and giving you similar benefit. I'm not a big-time squatter but I do the movement with good form and, therefore, get the benefit. It's all relative. Don't shortchange yourself. THe weight is nothing more than a means to an end. What you lift is individual.

And bingo. This just in bro.... Chin Ups WILL build your biceps MUCH better than bicep curls will. REverse Grip bent over rows will too as will any pulling movement.

My arms aren't huge by any means but they are proportionate. I"m probably close to 18# right now. I hardly ever do direct bicep work. Guess how much direct tricep work I do??? You guessed it. ZERO. The point is: someone needs to tell me exactly why I'm doing some silly-ass tricep movement after I just bench pressed heavy weight.

The point is: don't discount "indirect".

If you are doing an exercise that is heavy enough, you can grow from it. Skullcrushers will hit your triceps a little different then the bench press would, and if you keep the weight heavy you can grow from that too.

Anything Ab related too, if you use weights and make it heavy enough, you can grow from it. But I agree squating heavy without a belt is probably the best way to work out the abs.

[majorchamp]

I am learning about Stomach Vacuum right now...sounds like maybe something that could benefit you. Won't remove the fat from your abs...but may make them easier to pop through with enough work.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121515461

[Shr3dJunki3]

I wish you could "sneeze and grow" anything just by taking steroids. It doesn't work that way - LMAO - just take my word for it.

ANd, what on God's Earth do you mean by "I can't squat heavy yet"?? YOu might not squat what I do but that doesn't mean what you do squat isn't heavy for you and giving you similar benefit. I'm not a big-time squatter but I do the movement with good form and, therefore, get the benefit. It's all relative. Don't shortchange yourself. THe weight is nothing more than a means to an end. What you lift is individual.

And bingo. This just in bro.... Chin Ups WILL build your biceps MUCH better than bicep curls will. REverse Grip bent over rows will too as will any pulling movement.

My arms aren't huge by any means but they are proportionate. I"m probably close to 18# right now. I hardly ever do direct bicep work. Guess how much direct tricep work I do??? You guessed it. ZERO. The point is: someone needs to tell me exactly why I'm doing some silly-ass tricep movement after I just bench pressed heavy weight.

The point is: don't discount "indirect".

Well, I dont now about you, but I believe people taking steroids have the advantage of faster muscle growth than someone not taking steroids, so that "sneeze and grow" thing was just a saying.

I didn't mean I cant squat heavy myself personally, I try my best, but how about the people who don't have good form yet, or dont even have a squat rack or a gym membership so they can have access to doing squats?

I haven't experienced any bicep growth from chinups personally but then again, I don't have much muscle to begin with. I'm not going to try and argue that because I don't know too much about indirect working of a muscle yet. Nor do I have much experience with them.

[thenexlevel]

I disagree slightly on the direct ab work. Nothing strengthens your core like deads, standing OH presses, squats and Olympic lifts in general. However, crunches and a few other direct ab exercises can only help. BB'ers like weighted ab exercises. It really just depends on your goals but I do a little bit of direct ab work once a week. Boxers have been doing direct ab work for centuries. If it works for them, it's not a waste of time for us.

I do agree about the forearm's and tricep extensions though lol.


to the OP 10-13% is the average for most where you see abs. It really depends on your genetics though. I have a pic where I'm in the 14-15 neighborhood and my abs are very slightly visible.

edit - here's that pic:

My upper body looks about the same but my gut area is no where close...

[thenexlevel]

You can gain a bit of size on a deficit IME, but it will top out. This happens most with muscles that are deconditioned or undertrained. If he never trains abs it might be a good thing for him to try.

I find this to be the case, on the new routines or new muscles i'm working out with I do increase strength but again it tops out. Something I topped out was bench, I been on the same weight basically for 3 months now.

I'm going to hit the abs hard regardless and see what happens with direct and indirect movements....

[luv2pump]

What I did/am doing

very reduced calories but still enough protein
lots of cardio
lots of time in the sauna stretching, doing yoga etc
avoiding all and any extra salt etc or anything that would cause water retention
personally, low carb does amazing things for me but that's IMO experience
lots of water, like a gallon a day
patience

Hope this helps.

[luv2pump]

I personally prefer to not pay a bit of attention at all to the water I'm retaining, and just worry about burning fat. It'll even out eventually

Oh, I pay attention to BOTH. These are my Christmas abs. That's when I got them, over the holidays LOL!!!!

[chaser1712]

You can gain a bit of size on a deficit IME, but it will top out. This happens most with muscles that are deconditioned or undertrained. If he never trains abs it might be a good thing for him to try.

I was wondering that myself. As far as muscles you arent used to working very hard and experience some growth on a deficit. Say obliques for example. Kind of similar, in a way, to how noobs can a build muscle and lose fat at first.