One meal a day... amazed!

[wave_length]

Most of this stuff I am stealing from Aragon btw before I get hammered for it.

The first law of nutrient timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.
The second law of nutrient timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.

One thing to remember is that most people simply do not have a fundamental understanding of human physiology. Did you eat at a caloric deficit? Yes. Did your protein intake and training regimen support LBM retention or at least minimize LBM loss? Yes...... I honestly don't see what's so fcking difficult for naysayers to understand about that.

At my absolute leanest, I ate a pint of hagen daaz every single night right before bed. I also did not have a car at the time, so I biked to school & work. I was running a caloric defricit, so I got lean. The people who give you sh!t are the same brotards who will spend $$$$ on completely useless supps, so we can laugh at them together.

Stickied by Alan:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113693871

And a few studies:

- Bortz WM, et al. Weight loss and frequency of feeding. New England Journal of Medicine, Feb 17, 1966; 274: 376-379.

- Young CM, et al. Metabolic effects of meal frequency on normal young men. Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Oct, 1972; 61: 391-398.

- Sudha Wadhwa P, et al. Metabolic consequences of feeding frequency in man. American
Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Aug, 1973; 26: 823-830.

- Dallosso HM, et al. Feeding frequency and energy balance in adult males. Human Nutrition.
Clinical Nutrition, 1982; 36C: 25-39.

- Verboeket-van de Venne WP, et al. Effect of the pattern of food intake on human energy
metabolism. British Journal of Nutrition, Jul, 1993; 70: 103-115.

- Arnold LM, et al. Effect of isoenergetic intake of three or nine meals on plasma lipoproteins and glucose metabolism. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Mar, 1993; 57: 446-451.

Suggests a slight advantage of 1 meal a day on body composition:

- K. Stote, D. Baer, K. Spears, et al. A controlled trial of reduced meal frequency without caloric restriction in healthy, normal-weight, middle-aged adults. Am J Clin Nutr, Apr, 2007; 85: 981-988.

[Keelhual]

How many calories are you eating / day?

should I stick with the typical 12/lb for a cut?

I'm eating about 4k cals a day, but I'm not being extremely specific, eating more by instinct. I'm not trying to gain or cut weight, just stay at the same weight with the same leanness at this point in my life. I weigh in every 3 days every morning right out of bed to keep tabs on it and take pictures every 2 weeks.

If I had a goal in mind, I WOULD be counting calories and adjusting based on pictures, scale, and how I was feeling overall.

Since you're cutting, start with X amount, and then adjust as you gather picture, scale, strength and feeling data. This is just a math equation, not difficult.

Starchy carbs are my kryptonite... especially at night. I wonder if that could be a contributer to my existing sleep issues.

What I've been doing lately is having my massive meal and it's typically more a protein/carb geared meal. And then 45 minutes later having another big meal but it's more a protein/fat geared meal. You may find that you're so stuffed and satisfied you really won't have much craving for starchy carbs.

Most of this stuff I am stealing from Aragon btw before I get hammered for it.

And...I may try this diet out down the road if I needed as sure fire way to cut some cals but I would still take some whey/BCAAs in throughout the mornin/afternoon for obvious reasons. Some things science may not be able to explain...

Science is great but there are often flaws in research. Many times studies, especially fitness, will have low validity - both internal and external, because there are just SO many extraneous variables when it comes to human health that there is NO WAY of controlling, which means that spurious correlations are very, very common.

This is a thread for experimentation - isn't it funny that every single person who has tried this diet has came back to this thread saying how much they love it?

We've already determined that this isn't optimal for bulking or muscle growth. That's fine, we're okay with that! How about when you've achieved your goals and you're burning yourself out by trying to prep, cook, eat, and clean 6 meals a day just to maintain? This, for me, at least freakin rocks and I can't imagine going back to the old way I used to do things.

I appreciate the counterpoints though. Also @ Wave, thank you for the opposing studies as well.

[wave_length]

Science is great but there are often flaws in research. Many times studies, especially fitness, will have low validity - both internal and external, because there are just SO many extraneous variables when it comes to human health that there is NO WAY of controlling, which means that spurious correlations are very, very common.

Actually, there are tons of scientific studies showing absolutely no effect of meal frequency on total body weight or body composition. One study even suggests a slight adavantage of eating only one meal a day.

[mavstud3]

I'm eating about 4k cals a day, but I'm not being extremely specific, eating more by instinct. I'm not trying to gain or cut weight, just stay at the same weight with the same leanness at this point in my life. I weigh in every 3 days every morning right out of bed to keep tabs on it and take pictures every 2 weeks.

If I had a goal in mind, I WOULD be counting calories and adjusting based on pictures, scale, and how I was feeling overall.

Since you're cutting, start with X amount, and then adjust as you gather picture, scale, strength and feeling data. This is just a math equation, not difficult.



What I've been doing lately is having my massive meal and it's typically more a protein/carb geared meal. And then 45 minutes later having another big meal but it's more a protein/fat geared meal. You may find that you're so stuffed and satisfied you really won't have much craving for starchy carbs.



Science is great but there are often flaws in research. Many times studies, especially fitness, will have low validity - both internal and external, because there are just SO many extraneous variables when it comes to human health that there is NO WAY of controlling, which means that spurious correlations are very, very common.

This is a thread for experimentation - isn't it funny that every single person who has tried this diet has came back to this thread saying how much they love it?

We've already determined that this isn't optimal for bulking or muscle growth. That's fine, we're okay with that! How about when you've achieved your goals and you're burning yourself out by trying to prep, cook, eat, and clean 6 meals a day just to maintain? This, for me, at least freakin rocks and I can't imagine going back to the old way I used to do things.

I appreciate the counterpoints though. Also @ Wave, thank you for the opposing studies as well.

Wave: Fully aware and in agreement with those points. The bottom line is making sure you reach your total calorie goal.

Kee: Yes I agree for someone who is tired of everything this could work and hopefully someday I can get the physique you have and can be happy with JUST maintaining. For me, someone looking to gain muscle mass, this is not optimal. BUT I WOULD LOVE to have a HUGE meal everynight because I love eating massive quantities of food. When I do get there (maybe in a few years) hopefully your around and I will be able to tell you about it.

[Keelhual]

Wave: Fully aware and in agreement with those points. The bottom line is making sure you reach your total calorie goal.

Kee: Yes I agree for someone who is tired of everything this could work and hopefully someday I can get the physique you have and can be happy with JUST maintaining. For me, someone looking to gain muscle mass, this is not optimal. BUT I WOULD LOVE to have a HUGE meal everynight because I love eating massive quantities of food. When I do get there (maybe in a few years) hopefully your around and I will be able to tell you about it.

Reps on recharge for being a mature debater =) Thanks for the input bro.

@Wave - that's very cool to hear. I'm going to start Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat by Ori tonight and when I skimmed through it I saw it contained much more scientific info than the Warrior Diet book.

[mavstud3]

and if I ever do try this I would do something similar to you wave: sip on a 100g whey shake throughout the day and then POUND the food down all at once.

[mavstud3]

Reps on recharge for being a mature debater =) Thanks for the input bro.

No problem. will be following this thread. Love to read all I can about this stuff. Always looking to learn more

[beaucephus]

I'm eating about 4k cals a day, but I'm not being extremely specific, eating more by instinct. I'm not trying to gain or cut weight, just stay at the same weight with the same leanness at this point in my life. I weigh in every 3 days every morning right out of bed to keep tabs on it and take pictures every 2 weeks.

If I had a goal in mind, I WOULD be counting calories and adjusting based on pictures, scale, and how I was feeling overall.

Since you're cutting, start with X amount, and then adjust as you gather picture, scale, strength and feeling data. This is just a math equation, not difficult.

I've been cutting at 4k calories for the last almost 4.5 weeks. Lost 5lbs so far (actually checking my fitday charts it's been 3,816 calories on average, but I don't count the incidental calories from sugar free jello and whipped cream, this can add up to 100-200 calories pretty easily) but I've cut well over 3% bodyfat. I'm really happy with the results and didn't expect to be gaining lean mass. I don't want to mess with what isn't broken right now.

However, the appeal of the diet is what gets me. I spend an hour every morning preparing my meals for the day. Would be nice to not have to worry about that until I got home at night and just put down one big meal.

[bigdan]

I've only been on this diet for a little over a week now, and I've maintained strength, been energized throughout the day, and I've lost 1/2 inch off my hips. I'm not obese or anything, either. I wear size 32 pants. Even the vascularity in my arms is increasing just in this short time. I think it is showing awesome potential with just keeping in mind what I've personally experienced. Like I said, I've only been on the diet for a little more than a week so I can't input on muscle gains, sorry. I'd actually post update pictures but to be honest I think Keelhaul's and asto_86's pictures are enough reason to try the diet.

by all means, do what you guys want to do. I just see some smaller bros on here who obviously don't have the fundamentals down and they want to mess around with magic diets and stuff... you gotta be rational and methodical with your nutrition and exercise to really get results - there aren't any shortcuts.

[wave_length]

by all means, do what you guys want to do. I just see some smaller bros on here who obviously don't have the fundamentals down and they want to mess around with magic diets and stuff... you gotta be rational and methodical with your nutrition and exercise to really get results - there aren't any shortcuts.

I agree, there are no "magic" diets like the 6 meals a day "clean" diet. All diets providing enough protein will yield (almost) the same results. Being rational and methodical would involve taking into account scienitfic studies on body composition, the vast majority of them showing no correlation between meal frequency and body composition.

And there are many reasons for a certain number showing up in one's stats, meal frequency not being one of them.

[charlie335]

This has me intrigued cause I hate feeling starved for 2-3 hours.

I need to cut...what if I had 2 - 1,000 calorie meals and took 3 scoops of whey to support LBM?

[asto_86]

wow, quite a debate went on today here! Ya I agree still on the whole counting calories thing. This is no magic diet.. You still have to eat properly to get the results you desire ie. enough protein/cals. My goal is to cut, so I count calories religously. im 173 down from a 190 bulk that started at 170 with 8% bf from july. im happy to say that ive made decent progress, but its crunch time for me now. gotta make sure im at a continuous weekly deficit or regardless of how many meals i eat im not going to get the results im striving for.

I guess what im saying is, im going to be sad when ppl come around to say this didnt work out the way they had hoped just like anything else.. when the fact of the matter is you still have to have your diet in check and not rely so heavily on the idea of one meal a day.

If I dont make sense just disregard everything i wrote because ive just had one hell of a night and am still a bit flustered.. its damn near 9.30 and i havent started my feast yet b/c the damn gym screwed me over, lol..

sorry guys, lol..

TIME TO EAT!

[TerryDaTank]

Sorry to be so "negative" towards this diet but I feel as if

The warrior diet is like taking a perfectly working engine, depriving it of fuel all day, then at the end of the night, dumping random crap into the engine until the tank spills over. Simple as that. Its just illustrating what the human body is capable of withstanding under suboptimal conditions - not what it's capable of achieving under optimal conditions.

How did you come to the conclusion that eating 6 small meals/day is optimal, whereas 1 is suboptimal? Anecdotally, the responses in this thread indicate the opposite.

Recent epidemiological studies, mostly carried out in France, have provided evidence on the beneficial effects of a fourth meal for those individuals who habitually choose this pattern.

But what of those that do not habitually choose that pattern?

The "gouter", commonly eaten in the afternoon in France by most children and many adults, has the biological characteristics of a meal because it is eaten in response to hunger. Suppressing the "gouter" in "habitual fourth meal eaters" soon leads to an increase in Body Mass Index (BMI).

So eat when you're hungry - if you're only hungry once a day, eat once a day. It's been established that those who eat 6 meals a day experience greater hunger than those who eat fewer, and this statement asserts that suppressing the 'gouter' - ie hunger - may lead to an increase in BMI. Lololol.

The experts agreed that, as long as we do not consume more energy than we use up and we only eat when we are hungry, it may be useful to split our total energy intake into as many meals as our social pattern allows.

It may be useful? And for who?

However, the pattern of eating cannot be completely dissociated from the composition of foods consumed. Therefore within this energy intake, we must take care to consume not only a good balance of macronutrients with high carbohydrate and low fat levels, but also ensure that we get an adequate intake of essential micronutrients.

Nothing antithetic to the Warrior/IF diets here...

"What you eat" and "When you eat it" are public health messages to communicate: frequent consumption of low energy dense high carbohydrate foods, rich in micronutrients, must be encouraged ensuring that energy intakes are not greater than energy expenditures and that eating episodes occur in a hunger state.

Only really applies to 'regular', relatively non-athletic people - basically positing the most efficacious, noncommittal approach to weight management. Calorie-counting BBers who are in touch with their nutritional requirements needn't concern themselves with such.

For those of you into epidemiological research:
Quote:
Association between Eating Patterns and Obesity in a Free-living US Adult Population

Yunsheng Ma1 , Elizabeth R. Bertone2, Edward J. Stanek, III2, George W. Reed1, James R. Hebert3, Nancy L. Cohen4, Philip A. Merriam1 and Ira S. Am J Epidemiol 2003; 158:85-92.

Some studies have suggested that eating patterns, which describe eating frequency, the temporal distribution of eating events across the day, breakfast skipping, and the frequency of eating meals away from home, may be related to obesity. Data from the Seasonal Variation of Blood Cholesterol Study (1994???1998) were used to evaluate the relation between eating patterns and obesity. Three 24-hour dietary recalls and a body weight measurement were collected at five equally spaced time points over a 1-year period from 499 participants. Data were averaged for five time periods, and a cross-sectional analysis was conducted. Odds ratios were adjusted for other obesity risk factors including age, sex, physical activity, and total energy intake. Results indicate that a greater number of eating episodes each day was associated with a lower risk of obesity (odds ratio for four or more eating episodes vs. three or fewer = 0.55, 95% confidence interval: 0.33, 0.91). In contrast, skipping breakfast was associated with increased prevalence of obesity (odds ratio = 4.5, 95% confidence interval: 1.57, 12.90), as was greater frequency of eating breakfast or dinner away from home. Further investigation of these associations in prospective studies is warranted.

Once again, this extends only to your average Joe - unrelated to bodybuilders who monitor their food intake. The guys currently running the Warrior diet in this thread... do they look obese to you? Additionally, the higher incidence of obesity in those who eat breakfast or dinner away from home is undoubtedly tied to a lack of willpower - not meal frequency. Funnily enough, something the Warrior diet is able to correct. **** like breakfast skipping is probably the same - skip breakfast, overcompensate with a large lunch.

Here's more on the metabolic effects of meal frequency:

Actually, the studies deal explicitly with the regularity of meal frequency - not frequency as we are discussing here. All the studies grant us is a reason to be consistent with our meal timing. You should have read them first.

the subjects consumed their normal diet on 6 occasions/d (regular meal pattern) or followed a variable meal frequency (3???9 meals/d, irregular meal pattern).

In Phase 1 (14 days), subjects were asked to consume similar things as normal, but either on 6 occasions per day (regular meal pattern) or follow a variable predetermined meal frequency (between 3 and 9 meals/day) with the same total number of meals over the week.

[finOx]

I guess what im saying is, im going to be sad when ppl come around to say this didnt work out the way they had hoped just like anything else.. when the fact of the matter is you still have to have your diet in check and not rely so heavily on the idea of one meal a day.

...smaller bros on here who obviously don't have the fundamentals down and they want to mess around with magic diets and stuff...

...you gotta be rational and methodical with your nutrition and exercise to really get results - there aren't any shortcuts.

Truth.


Anyone who wants to try this diet because they view the pictures from keelhaul or asto and think it will have the same exact effects on their body by just cramming a few thousand calories together, they have another thing coming. Anyone who wants to attempt this diet needs to read the book at least twice.

Its not freaking magic people, read the book.

[n8nazty]

So I stopped in Borders after my workout last night and picked up "The Warrior Diet". I'm pretty psyched about it. I'm about half way through the book right now. I plan on starting a carefully tailored variation of it next Wednesday. Feel free to critique my interpretation of the "sample day" on page 88 of "The Warrior Diet", 2nd Edition (Revised and Expanded). I was actually surprised to find how many times during the "under-eating phase" it permits you to consume 15-30 grams of protein. I was under the impression I'd be consuming nothing but green tea and a handful of berries. or nuts maybe twice until the feast.

It suggests that "extremely active people" consume a meal of oatmeal and eggs, rice and eggs, rice soup or barley soup during the day (under-eating phase) to satisfy calorie demands and prevent muscle breakdown. I think I fit into that category since I have a relatively physical job and do Tabata Protocol training (20 seconds under tension, 10 seconds rest anaerobic exercise) and HIIT cardio alternatively, 6 days a week during my diet phases, which is where I intend to first test the Warrior Diet.

Aside from supplements, probiotics and tea/coffee, the sample day permits you to consume a 15-30 gram protein shake upon waking.

So assume I wake at 8 am.. I'll take the prescribed supplements, drink a strong green tea, perhaps more than one (I usually try to cut out caffeine and thermos at least 4-6 hours, if not 8 hours before bedtime) and I'll consume 15 grams of whey isolate.

The noon protocol suggests either some vegetable juice or a small salad with "eggs". It's plural, yet not specific to how many. I'll opt for a small salad with 3 egg whites so I'm getting another 15 grams of high quality protein four hours removed from the first dose of 15 grams (whey).

"Early afternoon" (I might take this to mean 1-2 pm) calls for a bowl of berries or yogurt. At this time, I'll consume a cup of blueberries.

"Late afternoon" (I'll take this to mean 3-4 pm) calls for a "protein shake" as well as coffee or tea. Since I'm going to workout soon (5pm), I'm going to consume 30 grams of whey isolate with 1/2cup - 1 cup oats, as permitted in the preceding "extremely active people section".

As prescribed in the "during workout" protocol, I adhere to the water and nutrient parameters.

The "recovery meal" calls for consuming 30-50 grams of whey. Given the fact that I had a 30 gram pre-workout shake, I'll only have 10-20 grams post. Most likely, the pre-workout shake I describe in the preceding meal will be a 40-50 gram whey shake which I will consume most of pre-workout and finish off at this point. (I'm of the belief that pre-workout nutrition has precedence over post workout nutrition so as to prevent muscle catabolism. I'm going to use fallacious logic on this one and brotastically appeal to the authority of Alan Aragon and the countless other bodybuilding writers that have made this case.)

At this point, I have consumed a maximum 600 calories, only 135 of which are from carbohydrate (approx 150 grams between the berries, salad and miniscule whey isolate sugar). The rest of the calories are from protein, which is a total of 80 grams.

Now for the "Main Meal" (evening):

I realize that the main meal is about eating instinctually and not concluding the feast prematurely after hitting some pre-determined macronutrient value or caloric intake but given that I've made fast progress in the past with almost unmeasurable muscle loss on a 2500 calorie regimen and 1 gram protein per lb of lean bodyweight (165-170), I will surely be noting those 2 variables during the meal.

I will adhere to the protocol and not conclude the meal until complete satiety (I'll trust in the metabolism boosting effects of the diet) but I will at the same time try to eat a protein dense meal to cover the remaining deficit and reach the pre-determined protein threshold of 170 grams. Since I've already consumed a total of 80 grams during the "under-eating phase", the evening feast might consist of up to 90 grams of protein. Some studies have suggested that .8 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight may be sufficient so if I feel stuffed by the time I reach 140 grams (.8 x 170lbw) total for the day, I will indeed listen to my body and stop eating. If I don't yet feel satisfied, I'll eat until I cover another 30 grams and round out with any carbohydrates my body tells me I need.

Given the sample outline in the book, I can't find any reason the preceding sample meal plan violates the tenets.

Given your logic or personal experience with this diet, how do you suspect this will work out. At any rate, I'm going to find out soon enough, since again, I'm going to begin the diet next Wednesday.

One other thing.. The under-eating phase is susposed to be especially light on carbohydrates, especially high-glycemic ones, so as to minimize the insulin response. The book suggests to relegate fats to the main meal so as to give the digestive system a break, yet in other parts, seems to condone eating almonds during the day. Since Hofmekler seems allow some deviation, perhaps I will as well.

Consider this for a sample meal plan for the undereating phase: Rather than consume 15-30 grams of whey isolate in divided doses 3-4 times during the day for a total of 70-80 grams protein, what if I mixed it in the blender with half of a raw avocado and pureed it with some cinnamon, perhaps with a half cup of blueberries and consumed this evenly throughout the day. A phytochemical exclusive to avocados called "mannoheptulose" is a hexokinase inhibitor which increases insulin sensitivity, as does cinnamon. Since the author seems to think a handful of nuts or seeds is alright (10-15 grams of fat), why not the same amount from an avocado while simultaneously blunting any minor spike in insulin caused by what little carbohydrate or coffee is consumed during the day?

Given the (relative) absence of insulin in the bloodstream, I figure the undereating phase would be a good time to consume a dose or 2 of GABA, if only pre-workout, to boost GH levels.

I'm interested to hear what you guys/gals have to say about these ideas.

[damirk]

I work the night shift (11p-7a) several times a week. I usually slam down a protein shake with milk when i get home and i pass out shortly after. My question is if i do my undereating prior to this and start my "meal" lets say around 6 am and hit the sack by 9, would that be alright for the days i work nights?

[timhet]

I have decided to start cutting (bad time of the year to start I know!), but for the last 4 days or so I've been eating one big meal at lunchtime and having two shakes. I've been on holidays so its made it easier to do this.

Total calories around 1800.

I thought that I would be starving on 1800 calories, especially late at night. I normally goto bed at middnight, which is 12 hours after I have my lunch.

Although I could easily mow down 200 grams of chocolate, a large popcorn or a few bowls of ice-cream, by not eating anything at night, I'm not stimulating my appetite.

Its only early days into my cut, but I'm amazed how I can feel 90% satisfied while eating 1800 calories.

[wllcr]

So the book arrived, i was excited ...ready to learn...ready to apply what i read...and then before i even read the words on thr front cover it was stolen by my girlfriend and hidden away till tomorrow. AHHHHH

So when doing this diet would it be possible to throw in a little creatine with the after workout meal..or even the big meal?

I really wanna read it...so annoying now that i know its there.

[spicytunaroll]

Going very well for me. I have been basically having black coffee for breakfast and if needed, soemthing very small (like 150 cals of sardines) for lunch. Then I lift after work and go home and feast. I am leaner now than I have ever been. My stomach is chiseled and my energy levels are high. Tonight's feast:

Huge mixed salad

All I can eat steak on the grill (probably 2-3 steaks)

If hungry thereafter, I will have oatmeal (one 110 calories pack at a time) until full.

Cup of tea. Bed.

I go to bed stuffed every night and am leaning out.

[eriram]

I may try this diet out down the road if I needed as sure fire way to cut some cals but I would still take some whey/BCAAs in throughout the mornin/afternoon for obvious reasons. Some things science may not be able to explain...

It can be explained...placebo

[mavstud3]

So I stopped in Borders after my workout last night and picked up "The Warrior Diet". I'm pretty psyched about it. I'm about half way through the book right now. I plan on starting a carefully tailored variation of it next Wednesday. Feel free to critique my interpretation of the "sample day" on page 88 of "The Warrior Diet", 2nd Edition (Revised and Expanded). I was actually surprised to find how many times during the "under-eating phase" it permits you to consume 15-30 grams of protein. I was under the impression I'd be consuming nothing but green tea and a handful of berries. or nuts maybe twice until the feast.

It suggests that "extremely active people" consume a meal of oatmeal and eggs, rice and eggs, rice soup or barley soup during the day (under-eating phase) to satisfy calorie demands and prevent muscle breakdown. I think I fit into that category since I have a relatively physical job and do Tabata Protocol training (20 seconds under tension, 10 seconds rest anaerobic exercise) and HIIT cardio alternatively, 6 days a week during my diet phases, which is where I intend to first test the Warrior Diet.

Aside from supplements, probiotics and tea/coffee, the sample day permits you to consume a 15-30 gram protein shake upon waking.

So assume I wake at 8 am.. I'll take the prescribed supplements, drink a strong green tea, perhaps more than one (I usually try to cut out caffeine and thermos at least 4-6 hours, if not 8 hours before bedtime) and I'll consume 15 grams of whey isolate.

The noon protocol suggests either some vegetable juice or a small salad with "eggs". It's plural, yet not specific to how many. I'll opt for a small salad with 3 egg whites so I'm getting another 15 grams of high quality protein four hours removed from the first dose of 15 grams (whey).

"Early afternoon" (I might take this to mean 1-2 pm) calls for a bowl of berries or yogurt. At this time, I'll consume a cup of blueberries.

"Late afternoon" (I'll take this to mean 3-4 pm) calls for a "protein shake" as well as coffee or tea. Since I'm going to workout soon (5pm), I'm going to consume 30 grams of whey isolate with 1/2cup - 1 cup oats, as permitted in the preceding "extremely active people section".

As prescribed in the "during workout" protocol, I adhere to the water and nutrient parameters.

The "recovery meal" calls for consuming 30-50 grams of whey. Given the fact that I had a 30 gram pre-workout shake, I'll only have 10-20 grams post. Most likely, the pre-workout shake I describe in the preceding meal will be a 40-50 gram whey shake which I will consume most of pre-workout and finish off at this point. (I'm of the belief that pre-workout nutrition has precedence over post workout nutrition so as to prevent muscle catabolism. I'm going to use fallacious logic on this one and brotastically appeal to the authority of Alan Aragon and the countless other bodybuilding writers that have made this case.)

At this point, I have consumed a maximum 600 calories, only 135 of which are from carbohydrate (approx 150 grams between the berries, salad and miniscule whey isolate sugar). The rest of the calories are from protein, which is a total of 80 grams.

Now for the "Main Meal" (evening):

I realize that the main meal is about eating instinctually and not concluding the feast prematurely after hitting some pre-determined macronutrient value or caloric intake but given that I've made fast progress in the past with almost unmeasurable muscle loss on a 2500 calorie regimen and 1 gram protein per lb of lean bodyweight (165-170), I will surely be noting those 2 variables during the meal.

I will adhere to the protocol and not conclude the meal until complete satiety (I'll trust in the metabolism boosting effects of the diet) but I will at the same time try to eat a protein dense meal to cover the remaining deficit and reach the pre-determined protein threshold of 170 grams. Since I've already consumed a total of 80 grams during the "under-eating phase", the evening feast might consist of up to 90 grams of protein. Some studies have suggested that .8 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight may be sufficient so if I feel stuffed by the time I reach 140 grams (.8 x 170lbw) total for the day, I will indeed listen to my body and stop eating. If I don't yet feel satisfied, I'll eat until I cover another 30 grams and round out with any carbohydrates my body tells me I need.

Given the sample outline in the book, I can't find any reason the preceding sample meal plan violates the tenets.

Given your logic or personal experience with this diet, how do you suspect this will work out. At any rate, I'm going to find out soon enough, since again, I'm going to begin the diet next Wednesday.

One other thing.. The under-eating phase is susposed to be especially light on carbohydrates, especially high-glycemic ones, so as to minimize the insulin response. The book suggests to relegate fats to the main meal so as to give the digestive system a break, yet in other parts, seems to condone eating almonds during the day. Since Hofmekler seems allow some deviation, perhaps I will as well.

Consider this for a sample meal plan for the undereating phase: Rather than consume 15-30 grams of whey isolate in divided doses 3-4 times during the day for a total of 70-80 grams protein, what if I mixed it in the blender with half of a raw avocado and pureed it with some cinnamon, perhaps with a half cup of blueberries and consumed this evenly throughout the day. A phytochemical exclusive to avocados called "mannoheptulose" is a hexokinase inhibitor which increases insulin sensitivity, as does cinnamon. Since the author seems to think a handful of nuts or seeds is alright (10-15 grams of fat), why not the same amount from an avocado while simultaneously blunting any minor spike in insulin caused by what little carbohydrate or coffee is consumed during the day?

Given the (relative) absence of insulin in the bloodstream, I figure the undereating phase would be a good time to consume a dose or 2 of GABA, if only pre-workout, to boost GH levels.

I'm interested to hear what you guys/gals have to say about these ideas.

So your basically eating every couple of hours but loading your biggest meal towards the end of the day? If I were to do this diet I would stick with just protein throughout the day.

Your version basically sounds like the diet structure of every 40 year old 200 pound women. Small breakfast if any, salad for lunch (small one), then a yogurt in the afternoon, with a huge meal for dinner. Just throwin in out there

[asto_86]

So your basically eating every couple of hours but loading your biggest meal towards the end of the day? If I were to do this diet I would stick with just protein throughout the day.

Your version basically sounds like the diet structure of every 40 year old 200 pound women. Small breakfast if any, salad for lunch (small one), then a yogurt in the afternoon, with a huge meal for dinner. Just throwin in out there

The problem with the fat old woman is that she doesn't exercise and has a caloric maintenence level of about 500

[PearlSoap]

So your basically eating every couple of hours but loading your biggest meal towards the end of the day? If I were to do this diet I would stick with just protein throughout the day.

Your version basically sounds like the diet structure of every 40 year old 200 pound women. Small breakfast if any, salad for lunch (small one), then a yogurt in the afternoon, with a huge meal for dinner. Just throwin in out there

Stewie from Family Guy

[Keelhual]

The problem with the fat old woman is that she doesn't exercise and has a caloric maintenence level of about 500

/agree!

[Keelhual]

I work the night shift (11p-7a) several times a week. I usually slam down a protein shake with milk when i get home and i pass out shortly after. My question is if i do my undereating prior to this and start my "meal" lets say around 6 am and hit the sack by 9, would that be alright for the days i work nights?

That's a tough one to answer. I would say try it in the morning for a few weeks, gauge the progress, and if it's working fine. If not, perhaps try it at 6 pm at night or so.. you won't get the nice feeling of going to bed stuffed, but play around with it and see what works best for YOU!

So the book arrived, i was excited ...ready to learn...ready to apply what i read...and then before i even read the words on thr front cover it was stolen by my girlfriend and hidden away till tomorrow. AHHHHH

So when doing this diet would it be possible to throw in a little creatine with the after workout meal..or even the big meal?

I really wanna read it...so annoying now that i know its there.

Almost time bro, it's worth the wait =) Yes, put creatine in with your post-workout meal.

Going very well for me. I have been basically having black coffee for breakfast and if needed, soemthing very small (like 150 cals of sardines) for lunch. Then I lift after work and go home and feast. I am leaner now than I have ever been. My stomach is chiseled and my energy levels are high. Tonight's feast:

Huge mixed salad

All I can eat steak on the grill (probably 2-3 steaks)

If hungry thereafter, I will have oatmeal (one 110 calories pack at a time) until full.

Cup of tea. Bed.

I go to bed stuffed every night and am leaning out.

Awesome dude, keep us posted.

[thebeaver]

would it be possible to do a keto warrior diet?

[damirk]

That's a tough one to answer. I would say try it in the morning for a few weeks, gauge the progress, and if it's working fine. If not, perhaps try it at 6 pm at night or so.. you won't get the nice feeling of going to bed stuffed, but play around with it and see what works best for YOU!




Almost time bro, it's worth the wait =) Yes, put creatine in with your post-workout meal.



Awesome dude, keep us posted.

One more question? Will I be able to grow on this diet or is it strictly for cutting? im at 154lb right now at around 6-8% BF, but i want to get a little bigger and lean out. Suggestions?

[Shredded-Wolf]

this sounds more manageable since im in school all day

[Roke-Ster]

Does this work... at all...

can it be used for cutting?

[MUFC]

Does this work... at all...

can it be used for cutting?

Yes, it works.

Yes, it can be used for cutting.

Anything can be used for cutting provided you are under maintenance.