March to the mash

[Cincimanatti]

I have decided to enter my first comp. I have started this thread so you all can follow along. If I do good you can use this to help you in your own journeys. If I do bad maybe we can see where I went wrong. If anyone has any insights on training routines diet plans or overall thoughts please share. Even putdowns are cool here. I will just use to motivate me. I am currently two months into my bulk 201 12%-15% BF. I am doing a five day split one week and a 4 day split the next. I am consuming 3800 calories a day on training days and 3500 on off days. About 50% carbs 25% protein and 25% fats. Most fats are from red meat peanut butter and fish. carbs are from oatmeal and brown rice, Sometimes white rice and potatoes. Protein is mostly fish red meat and 3 shakes a day mixed with milk. I have a cheat day every 4 days but eat clean other than that. My comp is in oct so this is going to be a long ride.

[Cincimanatti]

Last weeks routine. I am coming off of an injury. My strength is about 80% 7 months off. Only two back

Mon-Chest
INC DU PRESSES- 90-12 REPS, 95-10 REPS, 100-7 REPS
FLAT DU PRESSES- 90-10 REPS, 90-7 REPS, 85-11 REPS
INC FLYES- 40-12 REPS, 45-12 REPS, 50-11 REPS
FST-7 CABLE CROSSOVERS- 7 SETS 30-40 SECONDS REST. 80% YOUR MAXIMUM FOR 12 REPS. 90-12, 90-12, 90-12, 90-12, 90-11, 90-10, 90-10

TUES-LEGS
QUADS
LEG EXT WM UP-50-20REPS, 50-20 REPS.
SQUATS-235-12 REPS, 325-8 REPS, 325-7 REPS
WALKING LUNGES TWO 25 LB PLATES IN EACH HAND. 3 SETS TO FAILURE
LEG PRESS- 410-12 REPS, 515-12 REPS, 700-7 REPS,
HACK SQUATS FST-7 255-12 REPS, 255-12 REPS, 255-12 REPS, 255-10 REPS, 255-10 REPS, 255-9 REPS, 255-10 REPS
HAMS
SITTING LEG CURLS-110-12 REPS, 110-12 REPS, 110-9 REPS
LYING LEG CURLS- 90-12 REPS, 90-12 REPS, 90-12 REPS
CALVES-SITTING RAISES- 45-30 REPS, 90-20 REPS, 90-20 REPS
LEG PRESS CALF RAISES- 410-20 REPS, 410-20 REPS, 410-20 REPS

WED-BACK
WIDE GRIP PULLUPS TO FAILURE-18 REPS, 16 REPS, 14 REPS, 9 REPS
ONE ARM DUMBELL ROWS- 90-12 REPS, 90-12 REPS, 90-11 REPS
T BAR ROWS- 90-12 REPS, 135-12 REPS, 175-11 REPS
SEATED PULLEY ROWS-160-12 REPS, 170-12 REPS, 190-7 REPS
STRAIGHT ARM PULLDOWNS- FST 7 60-12 REPS, 60-12 REPS 60-12 REPS, 60-12 REPS, 60-12 REPS, 60-12 REPS, 60-10 REPS.

THURS-SHOULDERS
OVERHEAD PRESSES-65-12 REPS, 70-10 REPS, 70-9 REPS
SIDE LATERALS- 25-12 REPS, 25-12 REPS 25-12 REPS.
FRONT RAISES- 30-12 REPS, 30-11 REPS, 30-7 REPS.
UPRIGHT ROWS- 90-12 REPS, 100-12 REPS, 110-9 REPS.
BENT OVER LATERALS- 45-12 REPS, 45-12 REPS, 45-10 REPS.
FST 7 CABLE LATERALS 15-12, 15-12, 15-12, 15-12, 15-12, 15-12, 15-9.

FRI-ARMS
BICEPS
BARBELL CURLS- 100-12 REPS, 100-10 REPS, 100 -9 REPS
PREACHER CURLS- 60-12 REPS, 60-12 REPS, 60-11 REPS
INCLINE DU CU- 40-10 REPS, 40-10 REPS, 35-12 REPS
FST 7 SPIDER CURLS- 40-12 REPS, 40-12 REPS, 40-12 REPS, 40-12 REPS, 40-12 REPS, 40-10 REPS, 40-9 REPS.

TRICEPS
STRIAGHT BAR PUSHDOWNS- 70-12 REPS, 80-11 REPS, 90-8 REPS
2 ARM OVERHEAD EXT- 70-12 REPS, 80-10 REPS, 80-9 REPS.
WEIGHTED DIPS- 45-12 REPS, 90-12 REPS, 90-12 REPS,
FST 7 ROPE PUSHDOWNS- 50-12 REPS, 50-12 REPS, 50-12 REPS, 50-12 REPS, 50-12 REPS, 50-12 REPS, 50-12 REPS.

This was last weeks 5 day split. This week I will do a 4 day. I just add biceps to chest and triceps to back. I change everything week to week. I concentrate on mind muscle connection and use good form. Its useless to lift more weight than you can actually handle. I work the muscle not the weight. "Jay Cutler" Look up fst 7 fascia stretch training. Its stretches the outer sheath that covers your muscle and helps to break up the scar tissu

[Cincimanatti]

Just wanted to give props to FATHER FLEX, J_BO, QUELLY, RICH 55, AustrianOakJr, John Haynes. and RooRooTJ. Great naturals.
They have given me the motivation to compete. I would reccomend following their contest preps.

[Cincimanatti]

My bulking diet numbers. Food Name Amount Unit Cals Fat (g) Carbs (g) Prot (g) Delete
Total 3,763 calories 115.6 g of fat 430.0 g of carbs 250.7 g of protein

FITDAY,COM Free diet records. Keeps track of everything. I would suggest this to anyone. I recommend to my clients they love it.

[RooRooTJ]

Nice start so far. What show are you doing? The monster Mash in Cincy next year?

[Cincimanatti]

Yeah. I would also like to do one more around october. but I dont know the schedule for the events in my area yet. I got a lot of time to decide so we will see. I actually forgot to give you props in my post above. I have been lurking in your thread as well my bad. Will fix.

[AustrianOakJr]

Just wanted to give props to FATHER FLEX, J_BO, QUELLY, RICH 55, AustrianOakJr, John Haynes. Great naturals.
They have given me the motivation to compete. I would reccomend following their contest preps.

Thanks man. I appreciate it and im glad I could help you out. If you need anything shoot me a PM. For now, keep pumping! Might want to start tapering the weight gain....you've put on a LOT of muscle, but youre carrying a good chunk of fat. Im not trying to be negative, but youre not 12% BF. At 12% you will most likely have pretty clear outlines of your abdominals. Most peeps dont realize how long it takes to move that much chub the first time. Might take you alot of the next 10 mos to come in shredded.

[Cincimanatti]

I take my clients body fat all the time and can see no serratus or upper abs in people with even 16%. There is a standard deviation of 4-6%. I would say 15% at the most. Im sure you know what your talking about but 10 months is insane. I know my body and have dieted three years in a row to show a pretty nice set of abs. Unless you had someone underwater weighed at 12% it could be off 4-6% lower or higher. You could say you were 12 with abs but you were more like 8-10. I have done bodyfat calipers on over 1 hundred people. It takes a lot of tries to get it right. Bioelectrical impedence had me at 13.6 at the gym yesterday. I will not get over 15% during my bulk.

The cheap ass creatine I picked up also put on a pretty good bit of water. Its not esterfied so it does not completly absorb into the muscle. I also am taking in quite a lot of sodium so when I do cut it makes a difference. My original pic was taken right after consuming two cups of brown rice and 20 ounces of water. I was a little bloated. Here is a better one. This is early in the morning the next day. Horrible lighting on a hairy chest as well. Still could be more than 12. but no more than 15% I still love you oak even though you called me a fattie. LOL

[Cincimanatti]

Off topic but will somebody please give me reps. All I did was tell an intermediate 23 year old bodybuilder at 5,10 who claimed he gained 35 lbs of lean mass in 8 months naturally that it was impossible. He had his friend with 38,000 rep power neg me and now I have all of this red. It gets on my nerves. It says I am the lowest scum on the boards. Could be true but I still dont like it. Please rep THX.

[FATHER FLEX]

People will hold it very differently. I have pictures of Eric Helms at 15-17% with a full set of abs. Ben Goins, will have some NASTY hamstrings even deep into an offseason. So a torso shot doesn't tell you much, and its not the best way to compare two different people. So of course you use a number of sites, and that gives you a better idea. Which I am sure you do, being a PT and all. Thing is numbers matter little, and should be seen as nothing else, but more data.

In my current picture I have as my avi, I was pinching 8-9mm in my subscap, but I could have told you 4-5 and you would not have questioned it. Goes to show you.

[AustrianOakJr]

ALberto is right.....its hard to tell what body fat % you are at based on just an upper body pic. And im not trying to disrespect you....only trying to help. One of the biggest mistakes a new bodybuilder makes (and im very guilty of this one myself) is misjudging how fat they are and not taking enough time on a cut. In your PM, you asked for pics of someone at 12% BF. Take a look at my progress pics in my bodyspace. Take a look at my pics taken on APril 22, 2008 and APril 28th 2008. I believe that to be about 12% BF. Again, people hold fat differently, but I hold it in my lower back and midsection. ALso take a look at the time progression from my fat pics to my first contest. It was about 10 mos. I did take a 2-3 mos metabolism rehab in the middle where I brought calories up to maintenance, but besides that I was in a calorie deficit that whole time......and in the end, I was still not lean enough. Even this year at a 20 week cut from a much lower starting BF, I still could have been a few lbs leaner to be totally shredded. SO, im still learning that this cutting thing take TIME. Lots of TIME to come down SLOWLY. You can calculate 1-2 lbs a week and blah, blah, blah.....but it never works out that way. For the last month, you'd be lucky to move a 1/2 lb a week. It just takes longer than you would expect.

[AustrianOakJr]

I have been to 5% before. I had a couple test runs. Its cool guys I will be fine. If I am that bad I will go keto. I tried this already. Did not like to much but it works. I am nowhere near as big as you were in those pics. I would say in your pic you claim 12 your 10% Do you guys keep missing the part about 4-6% deviation. Calipers are not accurate. Under 10% bodyfat they are pretty much useless. Unless you guys have been in a bodpod or underwater weighed you have no clue what your body fat is. Its an estimation. You keep missing that I am not guessing my bodyfat two different devices have said this.

(On to a new subject)

You have cut to 5% bodyfat? What is 5% bodyfat? What does that even mean? I dont think I have ever been to 5% bodyfat......Do you have pics of yourself at "5%"?

You can call yourself whatever bodyfat you want.....you were the one who mentioned the numbers to begin with and when I try to give you an honest critique, youre getting defensive. Assigning yorself a bodyfat % is really assanine and serves no useful purpose other than a security blanket. If youre truly interested in success, then take the advice of others and listen......all im trying to say is that youre further out than you think. 16 weeks of cutting wont bring you in shredded without sacrificing a good chunk of muscle in a heavy cut/keto diet. Take that advice or leave it.....its up to you.

[TQsmooth5]

Comparison of TQsmooth5 and me. He claims he is 13% In his contest prep log. I am 12%
Him first, me second. My bodyfat claims are on point.

Hey! You're giving me a complex!

I believe Cinci's overall fat is around 12-13%

I mentioned on my log that I hold nearly ALL of my fat in my mid-section ... to a greater extent than usual. My arms, thighs and calves are all sub 8% now but my waist and tummy still register at over 22%. Average the numbers together and you get the 13%. Maintain the diet and soon those numbers will come down too.

Keep up the good work Cinci ! Good luck!

[Cincimanatti]

I forgot my log so weight is not on here. I can not find my log book WTF
Try this workout. Man I can barely walk. Means it was good. "OH YEAH"

Leg extensions wm up 2x20

Front sqauts 3x8-12

lunges 3xtil failure

legextensions 3x8-12

Leg press 4x8-12

hack sqaut FST-7 7x8-12 30 seconds rest in between 80% of your 12 rep max.

Lying leg curls 3x12

sitting leg curls 3x12

one leg alternating curls

donkey calf raises 4x20-25

sitting calf raises 3x20-25

leg press calf raises 3x20-25

[Cincimanatti]

Hey! You're giving me a complex!

I believe Cinci's overall fat is around 12-13%

I mentioned on my log that I hold nearly ALL of my fat in my mid-section ... to a greater extent than usual. My arms, thighs and calves are all sub 8% now but my waist and tummy still register at over 22%. Average the numbers together and you get the 13%. Maintain the diet and soon those numbers will come down too.

Keep up the good work Cinci ! Good luck!

You really dont think I am 25% Thanks smooth I was thinking the bioelectrical impedence and calipers were conspiring against me. Lol

[AustrianOakJr]

You are not even reading what I wrote. 18 weeks. You put 16. I am write you are wrong. Your contest prep started at about 25%. I am nowhere near that. You are saying I am close to this. You let yourself get over 20% No wonder it took you so long. I have never been that big even while bulking. You think I am as big as you you need lasik. Was this your first diet ever.

Can you please explain to me where I said you were as big as me? Honestly, I care less when you start your diet. You could eat twinkies and ho-hos until the morning of your contest. I really dont care. All I did was come on and tell you to that you might want to take more than an 16 (now I see 18) week prep. Thats all, man. I apologize for crapping on your thread. Good luck to you.

[scoobysnacks]

wow, all this talk about bodyfat is ABSURD. And when guys who have been there before are telling you to consider a longer time to diet, you discredit them. Would love to see your 5% shots. Calipers are a nice tool, but Oak was right it may take you longer than you think to get into shape you are carrying quite a chunk of bodyfat. Its nothing to take personal, judges wont play nice, you put yourself out on a message board you will get different opinions. In fact the judges who put me in my place have done WAY more for me that those that blew smoke up my ass.

Were you at the Mash this year? My client Jamin Apkan won the entire show, the week prior he got the best conditioned award at a non test NPC show (KY Bluegrass), so he was in nasty shape. He was SHREDDED, with nasty glutes: http://www.********.com/pages/Mainev...d=112696905584.

Im not sure what his final numbers said, but he started at 200 lbs at 9% on a nine site at 20 weeks out. Guy was certainly not out of shape and he dieted 5 months for that conditioning.

Im not saying you would need 10 months, but at the level you are carrying you may need more time. My client who won it the year prior (weighed only 156) also had shredded glutes and went on to win his class this year at the Natural Northern as a lightweight. People bring the conditioning at that show as least the guys who are winning the overall.

I'll be there and will check you out and give you my opinion, Ill also pop in from time to time.

BTW, IMHO if you had a truly fast metabolism you would not need to diet on 20% carb intake. I know in the Cincinnati area everyone thinks 50/20/30 is some magical formula that works for ALL, its not. Those are endomorph numbers for my clients, and even then not until the later weeks.

Good Luck,

Ss

[Cincimanatti]

Ok sorry for being anal. I am under a lot of stress and took it out on the wrong person instead of the weights. No more body fat talk. I want to switch my routine up so anyone got any ideas? I like the fst-7. I want to keep the fst-7 plan phil Heath gave me. But I want to try somethimg different on my back and legs. Yes these are my weak points. I did not put enough emphasis on these in the beginning. I am trying to really bring them up.

[AustrianOakJr]

Thanks for your intelligent response. You did not say I was lying about my bodyfat. Thats what erked me. I am not a contest guru. But oak was acting like I was 20% or more. 18 weeks was not my gameplan but just an estimate. Hell I might bulk for 5 months and cut for five. He just basically called me a liar on my %. I appreciate any advice if it makes sense. I tend to keep my muscle pretty well while dieting.

I can see where you got your negative reps from. NEVER once did I call you a liar. Honestly, im curious as just what your line of reasoning is for suggesting such a thing. It just doesnt even make any sense.....NO WHERE, in any of my writing did I even suggest you were "lieing" about your bodyfat. I cant even see where you could twist things to come up with such a convoluted view of what I am saying. Perhaps I may have suggested that you might be WRONG.....and perhaps thats what irked you, but please dont suggest I was calling you out on anything. Why would I do that? I never suggested you were bigger than I was when I started either.....id be curious to know where you pulled that as well. Obviously, I am capable of reading your stats at 5'8" and 201 lbs. I am 5'8" tall and I weighed 219 lbs in that picture. So, it would have never even crossed my mind that you were that big.

THe part that really gets me is that I questioned your initial suggestion that you were 12% BF, you go on to say (over and over again) that you could be as high as 18% with the error that is acceptable with the calipers. So, what gives? If the number doesnt really matter to you, then why are you so offended when I question your reading?

I honestly just came on your thread, noticed that you mentioned my name as an inspiration and I wanted to say thanks and offer up some useful advice. All I get in return is an arguement. A simple "thanks" would do fine and if you think im nuts......just ignore my advice and do what you want. Its obvious that I have no clue what im talking about......in fact my before and after shots are all photoshopped.

[Cincimanatti]

I got my neg reps from a 23 year old intermediate saying he gained 35 lbs of lean mass in 8 months naturally and his bodyfat stayed at 8%.. I told him it was impossible. Do any of you being natties believe this.

[Zarazen]

I don't think he was calling you a liar. More along the lines of him giving you his honest opinion.

[debrovnik]

Attempted to get OP green... failed

Regardless of whatever has been said - sounds like a crappy reason to get negged for!

[Cincimanatti]

Ok guys. I will be hiring scoobysnacks for my prep. So I may not know what I am doing but im pretty sure with his track record he does. He is only about 20 minutes away from me so it works perfectly. I am not pissed or stressed today so feel free to comment and I probably will not have a manic episode.

[Cincimanatti]

Todays back, triceps, abs workout. I am coming off of an injury so I am weak. I know.

BACK

Wide grip pullups 18, 15, 12, 11,

Barbell rows 225 x 12, 275 x 7, 275 x 5, 275 x 3 1/2. AHHH I really wanted that 4th.

close gr t bars 135 x 12, 160 x 8, 160 x 7

HS high row 250 x 12, 250 x 9, 250 x 8, 250 x 6

Str arm pulldowns FST-7 110 X 12, 110 X 12, 110 X 12, 110 X 9, 100 X 12, 100 X 12, 100 X 11, The pump in my back was out of this world.

Triceps

close grip presses 205 x 11, 205 x 9, 205 x 6, Man I hate being this weak. How long does it take for your strength to come back. Even at this weight my shoulder still pinches. What the hell is it.

2 arm overhead ext 65 x 12, 70 x 12, 80 x 7

one arm crossbody pushdowns 37.5 x 12, 37.5 x 12, 37.5 x 12. These brought out the split in my front and medial head on my shoulder. I know its a tricep push but it really pushes the cut out.

ST BAR PUSHDOWNS FST-7 90 X 12, 90 X 12, 90 X 12, 90 X 12, 90 X 12, 90 X 12, 90 X 12,

ABS

crunches til failure 3 sets

reverse crunches 3 sets til failure.

Broom stick twists 4 sets til failure.

[Cincimanatti]

I know everyone is different but how long does it take to get your strength back. I was a beast. Now I have smaller guys lifting more than me. My shoulder still hurts like hell on a bench press. I can do dumbells and hs machines fine. It has something to do with the damn bar. I can still bench 305 but it really ****ing hurts. Even 205 hurts pretty bad. I know I should go to doctor but I want to compete this year. Do you guys think I can build or keep my pecs with just heavy dumbells and hammer strength machines.

[RichKnapp]

LOL Thats were I am at. now whole right side is weaker and isn't growing as fast. I hear it takes a bit of time but I'm going to isolate right side with extra sets and try to push it to catch up. I'm going to push threw the pain but keep very very strick form to prevent reinjuring it. I use the H.S. machines and pain dosent seam as bad as with Db's and bar is not even a go for me for safty ressons if my shoulder gives out, at least on H.S. machine the most that can happon is they yell at me for making noise if my shoulder lets go. LOL I tore my right rotator in 2004 but not bad enough for surgery and it still hurts and is week.

[Cincimanatti]

LOL Thats were I am at. now whole right side is weaker and isn't growing as fast. I hear it takes a bit of time but I'm going to isolate right side with extra sets and try to push it to catch up. I'm going to push threw the pain but keep very very strick form to prevent reinjuring it. I use the H.S. machines and pain dosent seam as bad as with Db's and bar is not even a go for me for safty ressons if my shoulder gives out, at least on H.S. machine the most that can happon is they yell at me for making noise if my shoulder lets go. LOL I tore my right rotator in 2004 but not bad enough for surgery and it still hurts and is week.

Its a pinch or grinding feeling. I dislocated my shoulder as a kid and it almost feels kinda like that. I can not afford a doctor right now and can work around it. I wanted to do the mash this year but that was about the time the shoulder healed. I was going all the way to my chest on my bench. I was doing a get huge program from a flex mag. A week after I hurt my shoulder I read an article where Arnold said dont bring the bar all the way down it puts your rotator cuffs at risk. I wish I would have read that 2 weeks earlier. I am going to college full time, working part time, supporting 5 people. Food, electric and a good christmas for my son and nephew I took in is top on my priority list. I was out for seven months. I want to go to doctor to see what it is wrong but can not afford right now. I did all of the rehabbing exercises and it felt good but its slowly getting that tightness back. The close grip presses are what set it off. Im just not going to barbell bench or close grip bench til I get it fixed. As far as size it is bigger and more cut than my good one. I have no idea why. I just want my strength back. I am on no supps whatsoever. I got some cheap monohydrate but it just put a lot of extracellular water on me. I miss my superpump 250 and size on. I love that ****.

I hope your shoulder holds up. A lot of us are training through injuries. Your love of this sport is really inspiring. I hope you do well in your comp.

[RichKnapp]

Thanks a bunch.
Sounds like board presses and H.S. Machines may be your best option. But thats just my thoughts.

[scoobysnacks]

I know everyone is different but how long does it take to get your strength back. I was a beast. Now I have smaller guys lifting more than me. My shoulder still hurts like hell on a bench press. I can do dumbells and hs machines fine. It has something to do with the damn bar. I can still bench 305 but it really ****ing hurts. Even 205 hurts pretty bad. I know I should go to doctor but I want to compete this year. Do you guys think I can build or keep my pecs with just heavy dumbells and hammer strength machines.

I think you should do the exercises you feel. Now that flat bench is hurting you probably arent getting much out of it, stick to what you feel working the target muscle. Dont worry about what other guys are lifting, their goals may be different. There is a HUGE difference from how a gym rat trains and how a bodybuilder should train. I can get more out of curls with 15 lbs than gym rats throwing around 50 lbs, see what I mean. In any event, it might not hurt to get it looked at and then you at least know what you are dealing with. Id stay off anything that aggravates it, there are to many other exercises you can do.

[Cincimanatti]

I think you should do the exercises you feel. Now that flat bench is hurting you probably arent getting much out of it, stick to what you feel working the target muscle. Dont worry about what other guys are lifting, their goals may be different. There is a HUGE difference from how a gym rat trains and how a bodybuilder should train. I can get more out of curls with 15 lbs than gym rats throwing around 50 lbs, see what I mean. In any event, it might not hurt to get it looked at and then you at least know what you are dealing with. Id stay off anything that aggravates it, there are to many other exercises you can do.

Thanks scoob. Trust me I would love to get it looked at. I graduate in 3 months and already have a good job lined up. So I will be going to doctor and getting you the money for my prep then.