*** How to build your diet (for Teenagers) ***

[Number_Seven]

stickkyyy. and tuna is not cheap >.<

[xHoward]

Luke needs his own sticky. He knows his stuff and competes as a natural in bodybuilding and powerlifting.

Much respect.

[LukeN.Good]

Luke needs his own sticky. He knows his stuff and competes as a natural in bodybuilding and powerlifting.

Much respect.

Thanks! I attribute a great deal of my progress and success thus far to research alone.
Haha, the obligation of a sticky would be too much work! It's far easier to come and go, spoon-feeding information as is convenient.

[NeoginCF]

bumpity bump

[TheDukeUSMC]

Mod approved and stuck for good information

[ZionNYC]

Thanks.

[Number_Seven]

hey don't suppose youd want to help me with my diet eh?
pm if you have the time.

[The_Cook]

grats on sticky zion

[BenRea]

fitday is only made for losing weight btw. so those of us who wanna gain....

[RMHSLB]

fitday is only made for losing weight btw. so those of us who wanna gain....

what the hell are you talking about

[ZionNYC]

fitday is only made for losing weight btw. so those of us who wanna gain....

Just eat protein and carbs in every meal along with healthy fats if your meal doesn't have fat.

Ex:

Breakfast:
Want to get a big amount of carbs in here and a multivitamin for energy throughout the day along with a protein source.

Mid Day Snack:
Can be a protein shake with some carb source like Gatorade.

Lunch:
Fiberous carbs like Potatoes and Multigrain bread with a protein source like fish or chicken.

Pre Workout:
Carb source again like oats or rice.

Post Workout:
Whey shake with some simple sugars like fruits 40 minutes later.

Dinner:
Fiberous carbs or rice with a protein source like fish or chicken.

Before Bed:
Casein protein source like yogurt or milk.

[LukeN.Good]

Mod approved and stuck for good information

...subjectively parroted from every unjustified source bodybuilding has to offer. I've always considered good information to be scrutinized, unbiased, and validated by science as opposed to "popular belief."

I understand the good nature of OP's endeavors but I hardly find this topic worth a sticky, let alone the questionable information that has been supplied in herein.

[ZionNYC]

...subjectively parroted from every unjustified source bodybuilding has to offer. I've always considered good information to be scrutinized, unbiased, and validated by science as opposed to "popular belief."

I understand the good nature of OP's endeavors but I hardly find this topic worth a sticky, let alone the questionable information that has been supplied in herein.

What do you think is wrong here?

[LukeN.Good]

What do you think is wrong here?

(Here's a short list of discrepancies I had in order of the original post.)



Fitday is fine; however, nutrition varies from product to product - the label is generally more than sufficient. (I successfully based my entire cut off the Nutrition Facts panel of everything I consumed - the original post makes them sound inaccurate.)

Multivitamins - The logic behind multivitamin supplementation is simply compensation for a potential lack thereof in your diet, they're not at all necessary in any way and there's no study out there saying they are.

Fat and Cholesterol A certain degree of saturated fat and cholesterol is necessary - together they help regulate our hormone production. 7% (1/3 of total fat intake on a 20% macro ratio) or less as recommended by the American Heart Association.

Pre- and Post-Workout Nutrition - Relatively simple - a protein shake and a decent amount of carbohydrates to fuel work being conducted in the gym and in the body. (As internal mechanisms require energy as well.) Source is almost all but irrelevant aside from consideration to the Glycemic Index.

Protein Upwards of 60g of whey in one serving is simply absurd - approximately 1g per lb of bodyweight daily is more than sufficient. (For example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...&ordinalpos=11) The only things that differ among proteins is the rate of metabolism and amino acid profile - aside from those mainly derived from plants, most are fairly complete. There is no comparatively superior source so long as you're fulfilling your macro requirements. (1 to 1.5 grams TOPS of protein daily, depending on your body type.)

Glutamine (conditionally nonessential to begin with) supplementation is irrelevant: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5607091

Creatine I could spend all day going on about creatine - I'm in the process of typing up an article that is more biochemically comprehensive in explaining its physiological mechanisms and employment. Though a great and interesting supplement, it's not at all necessary or even worth a mention in the realm of "general nutrition."

Sugar I already stated my stand on in post #86 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=86) - "standard table sugar" will in no way directly induce adipocyte proliferation. Any carbohydrate variation is sufficient in fulfilling and replenishing your energy demands.

Macro Ratios vary depending on the individuals weight and/or metabolism - there is no single universal ratio.

STRONG WTF at "having more protein than carbs will cause your body to use protein for energy" - that's not at all how it works. So long as some degree of carbohydrates is present, they'll always be the preferred energy source and amino acid metabolism will always be comparatively inefficient - ratios have no impact on biological preference. Next to carbohydrates,

ATP ----> Creatine Phosphate Replenishment ----> Glycolysis (Free Glucose ---> Stored Glycogen) ----> Aerobic Respiration (Glucose (as pyruvate) ---> Fatty Acids ---> Amino Acids) - which are ultimately metabolized in the mitochondria as Acetyl Coenzyme A.

That is the primary order of energy derivation - pay particular attention to the sub-order of aerobic respiration, which is the macronutrient priority level in a caloric (energy) deficit as well. (Read up on how that order is determined, one of many links: http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/Met-Obe/Metabolism.html)

Supplements People seem to be confused as to why they spend so much while they simultaneously fail to take into consideration the pointless products they're investing in. Plain and simple, higher prices are generally a result of buying unnecessary crap - many of the excess ingredients in the more expensive products tend to be scientifically unjustified or of little biological relevance to begin with. You could easily be saving money just by understanding the biochemistry of the product(s), simplicity is generally more than sufficient.

Water The single most important inorganic molecule to life as we know it; however, daily requirements vary from person to person. That being said, no true predetermined "amount of water you should be drinking a day" in general or while supplementing with creatine has been established. Your body perceives and regulates hydration - it's essentially subconscious.

When supplementing with creatine simply compensate with more water than you usually drink - it's not necessary to attempt consuming impossible amounts. It just takes a little more to keep the rest of your body hydrated due to the osomitic side effect. (Both creatine and creatine phosphate are ionized compounds at physiological pH levels and thus cannot passively permeate the cell membrane, the higher intracellular concentration of solutes dilutes that of the water and causes a shift in the osmotic gradient resulting in the inward flow thereof and thus swelling/expansion of the sarcoplasm. Hence the dehydrating effect.)

[LukeN.Good]

Also, I found these studies relevant to the macro ratio discussion. It's actually a decent read in general:

Sports Med. 2004;34(5):317-27.
Macronutrient considerations for the sport of bodybuilding.
Lambert CP, Frank LL, Evans WJ.

Nutrition, Metabolism, and Exercise Laboratory, Donald W. Reynolds Center on Aging, Department of Geriatrics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock, Arkansas 72205, USA. LambertCharlesP@uams.edu

Participants in the sport of bodybuilding are judged by appearance rather than performance. In this respect, increased muscle size and definition are critical elements of success. The purpose of this review is to evaluate the literature and provide recommendations regarding macronutrient intake during both 'off-season' and 'pre-contest' phases. Body builders attempt to increase muscle mass during the off-season (no competitive events), which may be the great majority of the year. During the off-season, it is advantageous for the bodybuilder to be in positive energy balance so that extra energy is available for muscle anabolism. Additionally, during the off-season, adequate protein must be available to provide amino acids for protein synthesis. For 6-12 weeks prior to competition, body builders attempt to retain muscle mass and reduce body fat to very low levels. During the pre-contest phase, the bodybuilder should be in negative energy balance so that body fat can be oxidised. Furthermore, during the pre-contest phase, protein intake must be adequate to maintain muscle mass. There is evidence that a relatively high protein intake (approximately 30% of energy intake) will reduce lean mass loss relative to a lower protein intake (approximately 15% of energy intake) during energy restriction. The higher protein intake will also provide a relatively large thermic effect that may aid in reducing body fat. In both the off-season and pre-contest phases, adequate dietary carbohydrate should be ingested (55-60% of total energy intake) so that training intensity can be maintained. Excess dietary saturated fat can exacerbate coronary artery disease; however, low-fat diets result in a reduction in circulating testosterone. Thus, we suggest dietary fats comprise 15-20% of the body builders' off-season and pre-contest diets. Consumption of protein/amino acids and carbohydrate immediately before and after training sessions may augment protein synthesis, muscle glycogen resynthesis and reduce protein degradation. The optimal rate of carbohydrate ingested immediately after a training session should be 1.2 g/kg/hour at 30-minute intervals for 4 hours and the carbohydrate should be of high glycaemic index. In summary, the composition of diets for body builders should be 55-60% carbohydrate, 25-30% protein and 15-20% of fat, for both the off-season and pre-contest phases. During the off-season the diet should be slightly hyperenergetic (approximately 15% increase in energy intake) and during the pre-contest phase the diet should be hypoenergetic (approximately 15% decrease in energy intake).

PMID: 15107010 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

Nutrition. 2004 Jul-Aug;20(7-8):689-95.
Protein requirements and supplementation in strength sports.
Phillips SM.

Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. phillis@mcmaster.ca

Daily requirements for protein are set by the amount of amino acids that is irreversibly lost in a given day. Different agencies have set requirement levels for daily protein intakes for the general population; however, the question of whether strength-trained athletes require more protein than the general population is one that is difficult to answer. At a cellular level, an increased requirement for protein in strength-trained athletes might arise due to the extra protein required to support muscle protein accretion through elevated protein synthesis. Alternatively, an increased requirement for protein may come about in this group of athletes due to increased catabolic loss of amino acids associated with strength-training activities. A review of studies that have examined the protein requirements of strength-trained athletes, using nitrogen balance methodology, has shown a modest increase in requirements in this group. At the same time, several studies have shown that strength training, consistent with the anabolic stimulus for protein synthesis it provides, actually increases the efficiency of use of protein, which reduces dietary protein requirements. Various studies have shown that strength-trained athletes habitually consume protein intakes higher than required. A positive energy balance is required for anabolism, so a requirement for "extra" protein over and above normal values also appears not to be a critical issue for competitive athletes because most would have to be in positive energy balance to compete effectively. At present there is no evidence to suggest that supplements are required for optimal muscle growth or strength gain. Strength-trained athletes should consume protein consistent with general population guidelines, or 12% to 15% of energy from protein.

PMID: 15212752 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...&ordinalpos=11

[ZionNYC]

(Here's a short list of discrepancies I had in order of the original post.)



Fitday is fine; however, nutrition varies from product to product - the label is generally more than sufficient. (I successfully based my entire cut off the Nutrition Facts panel of everything I consumed - the original post makes them sound inaccurate.)

Multivitamins - The logic behind multivitamin supplementation is simply compensation for a potential lack thereof in your diet, they're not at all necessary in any way and there's no study out there saying they are.

Fat and Cholesterol A certain degree of saturated fat and cholesterol is necessary - together they help regulate our hormone production. 7% (1/3 of total fat intake on a 20% macro ratio) or less as recommended by the American Heart Association.

Pre- and Post-Workout Nutrition - Relatively simple - a protein shake and a decent amount of carbohydrates to fuel work being conducted in the gym and in the body. (As internal mechanisms require energy as well.) Source is almost all but irrelevant aside from consideration to the Glycemic Index.

Protein Upwards of 60g of whey in one serving is simply absurd - approximately 1g per lb of bodyweight daily is more than sufficient. (For example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...&ordinalpos=11) The only things that differ among proteins is the rate of metabolism and amino acid profile - aside from those mainly derived from plants, most are fairly complete. There is no comparatively superior source so long as you're fulfilling your macro requirements. (1 to 1.5 grams TOPS of protein daily, depending on your body type.)

Glutamine (conditionally nonessential to begin with) supplementation is irrelevant: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5607091

Creatine I could spend all day going on about creatine - I'm in the process of typing up an article that is more biochemically comprehensive in explaining its physiological mechanisms and employment. Though a great and interesting supplement, it's not at all necessary or even worth a mention in the realm of "general nutrition."

Sugar I already stated my stand on in post #86 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=86) - "standard table sugar" will in no way directly induce adipocyte proliferation. Any carbohydrate variation is sufficient in fulfilling and replenishing your energy demands.

Macro Ratios vary depending on the individuals weight and/or metabolism - there is no single universal ratio.

STRONG WTF at "having more protein than carbs will cause your body to use protein for energy" - that's not at all how it works. So long as some degree of carbohydrates is present, they'll always be the preferred energy source and amino acid metabolism will always be comparatively inefficient - ratios have no impact on biological preference. Next to carbohydrates,

ATP ----> Creatine Phosphate Replenishment ----> Glycolysis (Free Glucose ---> Stored Glycogen) ----> Aerobic Respiration (Glucose (as pyruvate) ---> Fatty Acids ---> Amino Acids) - which are ultimately metabolized in the mitochondria as Acetyl Coenzyme A.

That is the primary order of energy derivation - pay particular attention to the sub-order of aerobic respiration, which is the macronutrient priority level in a caloric (energy) deficit as well. (Read up on how that order is determined, one of many links: http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/Met-Obe/Metabolism.html)

Supplements People seem to be confused as to why they spend so much while they simultaneously fail to take into consideration the pointless products they're investing in. Plain and simple, higher prices are generally a result of buying unnecessary crap - many of the excess ingredients in the more expensive products tend to be scientifically unjustified or of little biological relevance to begin with. You could easily be saving money just by understanding the biochemistry of the product(s), simplicity is generally more than sufficient.

Water The single most important inorganic molecule to life as we know it; however, daily requirements vary from person to person. That being said, no true predetermined "amount of water you should be drinking a day" in general or while supplementing with creatine has been established. Your body perceives and regulates hydration - it's essentially subconscious.

When supplementing with creatine simply compensate with more water than you usually drink - it's not necessary to attempt consuming impossible amounts. It just takes a little more to keep the rest of your body hydrated due to the osomitic side effect. (Both creatine and creatine phosphate are ionized compounds at physiological pH levels and thus cannot passively permeate the cell membrane, the higher intracellular concentration of solutes dilutes that of the water and causes a shift in the osmotic gradient resulting in the inward flow thereof and thus swelling/expansion of the sarcoplasm. Hence the dehydrating effect.)

This is to start people out. I get like 15 pms having clueless people ask me to help them with their diet. Obviously this needs to be stated in a sticky. I agree with you that Glutamine is unnecessary and I stated that huge PWO shakes with every little supplement in it is unnecessary for teenagers and a Whey shake is fine. I said that 25-60g Protein shake is alright. This means do not go over 60g. Are you trying to say that 25-60g is not good?

I also stated that a normal cholesterol diet is alright. Saturated Fat, however, needs to also be at good levels but you should stick to good fats. Saturated fats increase bad cholesterol and good fats increase good cholesterol. 4 liters of water is good for any teenager. Studies (I posted them) show that a gallon to two gallons of water is great for athletes and especially those using Creatine and NO. All the supplements that I listed were either Whey Protein, Creatine, Multivitamins, Fish Oil, or Protein Blends.

I also got the protein and carbs thing from articles from this site and other bodybuilding websites. No teenager has the time to count every little thing they eat from labels and many foods from small stores don't have labels. Fitday is a lot easier.

To put it simple, you just repeated what I said, and the only thing we disagree with is the table sugar thing and the carbs and protein thing.

A beginner can really benefit from this information. Telling them to drink 4 liters of water a day, telling them to eat carbs, protein, and good fats with every meal, and pointing them to the right direction is wrong?

[ZionNYC]

Macronutrient considerations for the sport of bodybuilding.

Proves my point that carbs should be higher than protein. You don't want a diet of 300g of protein, 50g of fat, and 150g of carbs. The carbs and protein in this instance should actually be reversed.

[LukeN.Good]

This is to start people out. I get like 15 pms having clueless people ask me to help them with their diet. Obviously this needs to be stated in a sticky. I agree with you that Glutamine is unnecessary and I stated that huge PWO shakes with every little supplement in it is unnecessary for teenagers and a Whey shake is fine. I said that 25-60g Protein shake is alright. This means do not go over 60g. Are you trying to say that 25-60g is not good?

I also stated that a normal cholesterol diet is alright. Saturated Fat, however, needs to also be at good levels but you should stick to good fats. Saturated fats increase bad cholesterol and good fats increase good cholesterol. 4 liters of water is good for any teenager. Studies (I posted them) show that a gallon to two gallons of water is great for athletes and especially those using Creatine and NO. All the supplements that I listed were either Whey Protein, Creatine, Multivitamins, Fish Oil, or Protein Blends.

I also got the protein and carbs thing from articles from this site and other bodybuilding websites. No teenager has the time to count every little thing they eat from labels and many foods from small stores don't have labels. Fitday is a lot easier.

To put it simple, you just repeated what I said, and the only thing we disagree with is the table sugar thing and the carbs and protein thing.

A beginner can really benefit from this information. Telling them to drink 4 liters of water a day, telling them to eat carbs, protein, and good fats with every meal, and pointing them to the right direction is wrong?

The only start people need is their own initiative and a search bar. I prepared for competition and counted every calorie that went in my mouth while simultaneously juggling a social life, family crisis (still in occurance), an "advanced" high school curriculum, and college preparation for a premedical major. It's called life and it's honestly not that difficult.

I excluded your unjustified claims and speculations (of which there are MANY - my primary source of disagreement for this sticky, there's far too much bias and "popular belief" being incorpoarated), scrutinized your supposed "information," and instead validated what was correct with legitimate resources and biochemical logic. The fact that this is a sticky at all is disappointing. Granted we implement enough of them, we won't even need the supersite anymore. If I felt it were pointing people in the right direction, I wouldn't disagree in the first place - good intention doesn't rationalize misinformation.

Proves my point that carbs should be higher than protein. You don't want a diet of 300g of protein, 50g of fat, and 150g of carbs. The carbs and protein in this instance should actually be reversed.

A poor point that in no way supports your previous one - you evidently failed to read anything I typed, particularly the crude "flow chart" on energy derivation. Carbohydrates are generally higher than protein intake but not at all for the painfully incorrect reasoning you supplied, of which couldn't be further from the truth. (That of comparative energy derivation with that of amino acids.) During the final weeks of my most recent cut, my protein actually exceeded my carbohydrate intake. (Partially to take advantage of a homeostatic upregulation thereof.)

I'm starting to agree more and more with "thebear217." This thread is supported with little research or experience, I still stand by what I previously stated...

A good majority of these statements are scientifically unjustified claims based entirely on his personal speculations alone, which is hardly a sufficient substitute for actual information. (Especially from someone with virtually no established credibility in the field - meaning there's no official, educational, or scientific title supporting one's name.) As a result, at least some degree of validity is necessary.

Regardless, my efforts in this thread are evidently vain and burdensome at best; I'll take my scientific reason elsewhere.

[Teench]

Broscience > Science

You should know this by now Luke.

[N4th4n]

Luke, i'm impressed.

[ZionNYC]

Transfat are very hard to digest and can increase bad cholesterol. Anything "hydrogenated" or "partly hydrogenated" has transfat. They are unnecessary and it's best to stay away from them. Go to oils like olive oil or avocado or peanut butter instead of transfat filled foods. Here is list of the foods that are highest in transfats:

1. Spreads. Margarine is a twisted sister -- it's loaded with trans fats and saturated fats, both of which can lead to heart disease. Other non-butter spreads and shortening also contain large amounts of trans fat and saturated fat: Tip: Look for soft-tub margarine, because it is less likely to have trans fat. Some margarines already say that on the packaging.
2. Packaged foods. Cake mixes, Bisquick, and other mixes all have several grams of trans fat per serving.
3. Soups. Ramen noodles and soup cups contain very high levels of trans fat.
4. Fast Food. Bad news here: Fries, chicken, and other foods are deep-fried in partially hydrogenated oil. Even if the chains use liquid oil, fries are sometimes partially fried in trans fat before they're shipped to the restaurant. Pancakes and grilled sandwiches also have some trans fat, from margarine slathered on the grill. Fries (a medium order) contain 14.5 grams.
5. Frozen Food. Those yummy frozen pies, pot pies, waffles, pizzas, even breaded fish sticks contain trans fat. Even if the label says it's low-fat, it still has trans fat. Mrs. Smith's Apple Pie has 4 grams trans fat in every delicious slice.
6. Baked Goods. Even worse news -- more trans fats are used in commercially baked products than any other foods. Doughnuts contain shortening in the dough and are cooked in trans fat.
7. Cookies and cakes (with shortening-based frostings) from supermarket bakeries have plenty of trans fat. Some higher-quality baked goods use butter instead of margarine, so they contain less trans fat, but more saturated fat.
8. Donuts have about 5 grams of trans fat apiece, and nearly 5 grams of saturated fat.
9. Cream-filled cookies have 1.9 grams of trans fat, and 1.2 grams of saturated fat.
10. Pound cake has 4.3 grams of trans fat per slice, and 3.4 grams of saturated fat.

[rob1992]

you should also post up some science about why transfats are bad for you, and possibly studies showing this as well as how to avoid it

[NeoginCF]

Luke came in and bashed OP to the floor.

Btw you are saying I can't put butter on my steak?

[austin44]

Pre Workout Nutrition
STAY AWAY FROM PRE WORKOUT SUPPLEMENTS. These supplements are very bad for you. You may like the pump, but as a teenager you should have enough energy to do the workout anyways, and if you don't then just eat good carbs before your workout and take B vitamins.
Good Pre Workout Foods:
Gatorade
Oats
Potatoes
Bread
Rice
Buckwheat
Salad

are you dumb bro prework out isnt bad for you lmaoo what a retard

[ZionNYC]

are you dumb bro prework out isnt bad for you lmaoo what a retard

5'10", 133 lbs

Nitric Oxide is bad for you because it contains large amounts of caffeine, and this caffeine is unneeded for a teenager's body, as we should already have energy without it. Use of NO, just like coffee, can get somebody addicted to this rush that they get and they won't be able to have a workout without it. It's better if you use carbs like oats or vegetables or other carbs as well as Vitamin B or Branched Chain Amino Acids before a workout.

I'm also at the same height as you but 40 pounds heavier with no BF change at the same age. You mad?

[rob1992]

5'10", 133 lbs

Nitric Oxide is bad for you because it contains large amounts of caffeine, and this caffeine is unneeded for a teenager's body, as we should already have energy without it. Use of NO, just like coffee, can get somebody addicted to this rush that they get and they won't be able to have a workout without it. It's better if you use carbs like oats or vegetables or other carbs as well as Vitamin B or Branched Chain Amino Acids before a workout.

I'm also at the same height as you but 40 pounds heavier with no BF change at the same age. You mad?

5'10" 173lbs

[austin44]

5'10", 133 lbs

Nitric Oxide is bad for you because it contains large amounts of caffeine, and this caffeine is unneeded for a teenager's body, as we should already have energy without it. Use of NO, just like coffee, can get somebody addicted to this rush that they get and they won't be able to have a workout without it. It's better if you use carbs like oats or vegetables or other carbs as well as Vitamin B or Branched Chain Amino Acids before a workout.

I'm also at the same height as you but 40 pounds heavier with no BF change at the same age. You mad?

bud i havnt updated my **** in forever and im acutlly now sitting around 160 bud so i dont really care what you care

[ZionNYC]

5'10" 173lbs

You know going by the five pounds per one inch rule I would actually be around 200 pounds at your height right?

And I'm actually 178.

[ZionNYC]

bud i havnt updated my **** in forever and im acutlly now sitting around 160 bud so i dont really care what you care

NO is not needed for teenagers. Go ask any doctor if that amount of caffeine is good for anybody. Red Bulls, caffeine pills, and NO are all things to stay away from.

[austin44]

NO is not needed for teenagers. Go ask any doctor if that amount of caffeine is good for anybody. Red Bulls, caffeine pills, and NO are all things to stay away from.

lmao bud i dont belive **** your saying cuase your to afaid to acutlly upload a pic so dont talk shti untill you arent pussy to put a pic up