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  1. #121
    Mr.hotflow dee_reck's Avatar
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    learnd alot from this
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  2. #122
    Registered User Boy.from.Brazil's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JadKnowsBest View Post

    At 2800, results will come fairly quick, you will lose fat, put on muscle, it's that simple.

    Once you drop some fat, your maintenance will have gone down, so depending on how active you are now and then, 2800 may be your sweet spot for months bro.

    Have fun with it, you will only look better. At 233, losing fat will come easy, again, I don't know how active you are and how your metabolism is, but if your maintenance is above 3000, any intake between 2500-2800 will do you good.
    Ok ! I'm feeling confortable in 2800 . I think that's a point where I neither fell hungry or fell like I'm overeating , and most of all , I'm feeling energetic at the gym . So I'm sticking with it , adjusting if needed.
    Once again thanks a lot. As soon as I get some results I will post before/after pictures , so people can evaluate the plan ..

    [ ]s !
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  3. #123
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    I think I'm going to up my calories to 2700 or 2800.
    I've lost like 6 lbs since I started (I think 4 lbs was water weight), but still, I think I need to up my calories because I think my true maintenance is at least 2700, considering I am a teenager still, and I lift 5 times a week.
    I'm just going to add cardio 3 times a week to make sure I don't get fat. Probably just walking for 30-45 minutes.

    Starting Animal M-Stak and JACK3D next week. We'll see how it works out.
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  4. #124
    Registered User truwest562's Avatar
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    Awesome thread, I eat this way but I count only direct sources and don't count trace or veges.
    But my calorie count is kinda low about 1700 , so nevertheless it adds up to the lower end of 2k
    Calories .
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  5. #125
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    Originally Posted by JadKnowsBest View Post
    How to transform your physique from out of shape, to a much leaner (toned/defined), fit and stronger one.

    I am writing this because everyday, I see new trainees carrying a bulking and/or cutting mentality when trying to achieve the physique they desire.

    Whether you are thin/skinny/flabby or you have 10-30 pounds of fat to shed, this nutrition/workout plan will work for you, that is if you are after:

    Making lift progress (gym progress)
    Changing body composition (mirror progress) (losing fat, gaining muscle)


    My theory:

    Consume the lowest calories possible, but enough to continue making progress in the gym.

    Minimum 2000 calories, male or female, with a sufficient amount of protein.

    Progress in the gym means:
    Getting stronger every week. You are either squatting heavier, or performed better (lifted the same weight for more reps).


    My promise: If you focus on lift progress, with the right amount of calories, the progress in the mirror you are looking for will appear.

    This will require you to figure out your maintenance.
    Be consistent in your caloric intake.
    Count calories as accurate as possible.
    Make sure your protein intake is covered.
    Lift hard, keep track of your lift progress.
    Give priority to the compound exercises, working your muscle groups in a sane manner.

    Depending on how much physical activity you get, your intake may be higher, requiring you to eat much more than 2500 calories.
    But, a smart choice would be to start off low, and increase calorie intake to shatter plateaus and continue gym progress.

    For a thin/skinny/flabby/10-30 pounds over-weight male: 2200 calories, at ~150g of protein/day would be a good place to start.
    For a female, 2000 would be the starting caloric intake, at 120g of protein.

    Again, depending on how much cardio you are incorporating in your fitness program, eating more is a must. Otherwise, lift progress will take toll and so will mirror progress.

    DO NOT UNDER EAT
    2200 for a male, would be the starting intake.
    If you are squatting, shoulder pressing, rowing, bench pressing, deadlifting more the following week, then you are doing it right. If your lifts slow down, keep the intake the same for another week, if you hit a wall, strength wise, up the calories by a 150. Get more rest and continue progress.

    By the time you are around 2700 calories, you would have gained a lot of strength, for me by the time I was consuming 2700 calories, 4.5 months into lifting, my shoulder press went from 30 pound dumbells, to 75 pound dumbells, my deadlift went from 85 pounds, to 325 pounds.

    It's simple.
    You don't need 3000 calories as a beginner to make progress.
    And if shedding fat is a big part of your goal physique (leaner/stronger), eating at a healthy 2000-2600 calories at the start, with enough protein will lead you there.

    Diet:

    Whole wheat pasta or ice cream. Doesn't matter.
    Although the pasta may be a healthier choice.
    When it comes down to mirror progress, a 300 calorie cookie won't be much different than 2 potatoes. At the end of the day, all that matters is that your intake is in the range best for your goals, for me right now, about 2700 calories. And the protein stays constant, for me around 170g/day.
    so when taking in calories, are you saying take them in through out the day? or more specific timing like post and pre workout?

    also what foods/meals are generally good for consuming calories?

    cheers man, helped a heap.
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  6. #126
    Registered User J.Benson's Avatar
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    I do HIIT cardio three times a week and burn about 400 cals, so if I'm eating 2200 cals should I eat 2600 on days I do HIIT?
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  7. #127
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    Originally Posted by J.Benson View Post
    I do HIIT cardio three times a week and burn about 400 cals, so if I'm eating 2200 cals should I eat 2600 on days I do HIIT?
    Are u over or underweight?
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  8. #128
    Registered User J.Benson's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by truwest562 View Post
    Are u over or underweight?
    Over. 6ft, 189lbs, 24% BF.
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  9. #129
    The fat guy DefiningMoments's Avatar
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    So how are the people doing following this?
    Starting Weight: 190.4 lbs

    | 3/02: 190 lbs | 3/09: 188 lbs | 3/16: 183 lbs | 3/23: 180 lbs | 3/30: 178 lbs | MARCH LOSS: 12lbs
    | 4/06: --- lbs | 4/13: --- lbs | 4/20: --- lbs | 4/27: --- lbs | APRIL LOSS: ??
    | 5/04: --- lbs | 5/11: --- lbs | 5/18: --- lbs | 5/25: --- lbs | MAY LOSS: ??

    TOTAL LOSS:
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  10. #130
    Registered User JeffyDOS's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DefiningMoments View Post
    So how are the people doing following this?
    I did good... but I realized my maintenance wasn't 2200, which I was eating. It's actually around 2700 or 2800, which could explain why I lost about 7 lbs in 5 weeks.
    I did get noticeably leaner.. and I did eat ****ty foods like fast food, lots of cheesecake, etc.
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  11. #131
    Registered User PirateFace's Avatar
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    Just from a theoretical perspective, I'm interested to know how any fat loss is happening when you're eating above maintenance at all times. Unless this is relying on beginner gains, how are muscle gain and fat loss occuring at the same time without some sort of cycling?

    I'm eager to be proven wrong on this.
    negged for hating on pop tarts
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  12. #132
    Registered User simmer's Avatar
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    I liked this article because you highlighted most of the import factors in progression but you also kept it simple. I think people tend to get ovewhelmed when they are thrown a lot of talk about goals with lifting stats, every day gym jargon, food grams and scale measuring and when to eat what foods, etc., all at one time. Good post.
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  13. #133
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    bump
    about to try this
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  14. #134
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    Originally Posted by DefiningMoments View Post
    yeah im bout to follow it this whole summer just eating 2000-2100 instead of 1500
    did it work?
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  15. #135
    The fat guy DefiningMoments's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nitro3025 View Post
    did it work?
    I couldnt follow it. My summer job working around making food made it impossible to count cals. Sorry to disappoint you.
    Starting Weight: 190.4 lbs

    | 3/02: 190 lbs | 3/09: 188 lbs | 3/16: 183 lbs | 3/23: 180 lbs | 3/30: 178 lbs | MARCH LOSS: 12lbs
    | 4/06: --- lbs | 4/13: --- lbs | 4/20: --- lbs | 4/27: --- lbs | APRIL LOSS: ??
    | 5/04: --- lbs | 5/11: --- lbs | 5/18: --- lbs | 5/25: --- lbs | MAY LOSS: ??

    TOTAL LOSS:
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  16. #136
    ಠ_ಠ Brian94's Avatar
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    2200 calories for me, would lead to fat gain. I've been eating like 2000 calories most of my life, that's how I got fat.

    I'm sorry but I simply don't agree that 2200 is a minimum calorie for males. Some people have slower metabolism than others and cannot lose weight at 2200 calories.

    People can also gain fat on a bulk, even though they work out so hard simply because they are taking in too many calories per day.

    I'm losing 1-2 lb per week at 1500-1700 calories per day. Now, if I was really under-eating or losing muscle:
    - I would feel too tired at the gym, but I'm not.
    - I would lose motivation quickly, I have not.
    - I would be losing 3-5 lb per week like some people on keto or psmf diets.

    The weight loss is at it's minimum which is excellent because it means I'm also maintaining all muscles.

    Shockingly enough, I've also been increasing my weights at the gym over the months and things I wouldn't be able to lift in the past even if I tried, I can now lift with precision.
    Last edited by Brian94; 09-28-2010 at 08:07 PM.
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  17. #137
    Registered User jdferg07's Avatar
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    great post
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  18. #138
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    I know a guy who is eating 1700 calories a day and has been doing so for the past 2 months.

    This article is heavily flawed...Good attempt though.
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  19. #139
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    it's a legit idea - there's too much of a quick fix mentality with a lot of bodybuilders out there. if u can stick to a consistent routine, and a consistent nutrition plan, gains will be made....its just that the idea of being 225 @ 6% bodyfat pops into the heads of many that think it could be accomplished overnight by bulking to 250 and cutting the 25lbs of flab they gained on the way....and it generally doesnt work out as smoothly as planned.

    if people took ^this approach however, gaining 1lb per month would yield over 20lbs of solid, lean, dry muscle over the course of two years....it doesn't get much better than that

    the bottom line is that dedication will determine your results
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  20. #140
    Singularity is near koatliki's Avatar
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    I agree the article is flawed... you can't throw a blanket statement like that "Eat 2k calories". My maintenance is 2k calories.

    A 250lb guy at 10% BF will probably need more than 2k calories to maintain and 110lb 5'4" girl will probably gain fat at 2k calories.
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    Registered User Yamar1's Avatar
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    For years I avoided trying to gain muscle because I hated the whole "bulking" comcept. most of the guys I know who bulk than cut are fat most of the time.

    It's ironic I found this thread because 3 weeks ago I decided to do something very similar to what is described in the original post of this thread. In 3 weeks all my lifts went up and I gained 3 lbs with no apparent fat gain.

    I'm a lightweight so I started with 2000 calories as my base..... but I cycle, eating 2300 on training days and 1700 on cardio days. It's working well. Thinking about bumping it to 2200 soon.
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  22. #142
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    Originally Posted by koatliki View Post
    I agree the article is flawed... you can't throw a blanket statement like that "Eat 2k calories". My maintenance is 2k calories.

    A 250lb guy at 10% BF will probably need more than 2k calories to maintain and 110lb 5'4" girl will probably gain fat at 2k calories.
    I'm saying don't eat under 2k, I said start there to find your maintenance. Oh, and a 110 pound girl who works out (a must, lol), well, she wouldn't gain fat at 1800 calories. And if they start gaining fat, then they would know they are above their maintenance... it's not like they are gonna ruin their body or even add 5 pounds of fat trying to find their maintenance in a few weeks of trial.
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  23. #143
    that which has emerged Alan David's Avatar
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    What about nutrient ratios if I want to maintain muscle ( at least ) and lose fat ?
    P90X for example, starts out at 50%p, 30%c and 20%f and stays at 20%f for all 90 days.

    I keep reading, however, that you need .5 x bodyweight fat, and 1-1.5 X protein.
    Is the .5x fat / 1.5x protein the best approach for weight loss as well as muscle gain ?
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    Originally Posted by koatliki View Post
    I agree the article is flawed... you can't throw a blanket statement like that "Eat 2k calories". My maintenance is 2k calories.

    A 250lb guy at 10% BF will probably need more than 2k calories to maintain and 110lb 5'4" girl will probably gain fat at 2k calories.
    This is for new trainees looking to get into shape without carrying the bulking/cutting mentality.

    Example: a 5'9 Male at 160 pounds and 14% bodyfat doesn't have that much fat, and doesn't have much muscle either.

    So bulking, and worsening his definition isn't gonna work, and cutting.. well, there isn't muscle there to show after removing whatever fat is there on a 160 pound frame.. this would be best for his goals.
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    Originally Posted by Alan David View Post
    What about nutrient ratios if I want to maintain muscle ( at least ) and lose fat ?
    P90X for example, starts out at 50%p, 30%c and 20%f and stays at 20%f for all 90 days.

    I keep reading, however, that you need .5 x bodyweight fat, and 1-1.5 X protein.
    Is the .5x fat / 1.5x protein the best approach for weight loss as well as muscle gain ?
    Wow, 50 percent of your calories coming from protein?
    Ridiculous.
    So a person on a 2000 calorie diet is getting 1000 from protein, around 250g of protein.
    Unnecessary. Sure the excess protein will go through gluceogenesis if the body needs the energy, it's simply pointless as far as I know to force this. How about choosing the grams of protein that your body needs, around 1g per pound of lean body mass is a safe estimate or a gram per pound of bodyweight.

    Then multiply the amount of protein by 4, to get the amount of protein in calories. (Each gram of protein is 4 calories). So 150 grams = 600 calories, a person would get the rest of his/her calories from carbs and fats, their choice of the ratio split.

    Don't stress the ratio of your macros as much as total calorie intake.
    Eat what you crave, in a sensible manner.

    Proper training.
    Appropriate calorie intake.
    Protein in.

    = progression.
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  26. #146
    Work in progress... Jonesy08's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JadKnowsBest View Post
    Wow, 50 percent of your calories coming from protein?
    Ridiculous.
    So a person on a 2000 calorie diet is getting 1000 from protein, around 250g of protein.
    Unnecessary. Sure the excess protein will go through gluceogenesis if the body needs the energy, it's simply pointless as far as I know to force this. How about choosing the grams of protein that your body needs, around 1g per pound of lean body mass is a safe estimate or a gram per pound of bodyweight.

    Then multiply the amount of protein by 4, to get the amount of protein in calories. (Each gram of protein is 4 calories). So 150 grams = 600 calories, a person would get the rest of his/her calories from carbs and fats, their choice of the ratio split.

    Don't stress the ratio of your macros as much as total calorie intake.
    Eat what you crave, in a sensible manner.

    Proper training.
    Appropriate calorie intake.
    Protein in.

    = progression.
    I think from memory the p90x guide only suggests that high a level of protein in the first week or 2 then it goes back to a more "normal" 40/40/20 type split. I think they go really low carb for the first week probably to get that initial wow factor of dropping water weight to convince people early on it's working.

    I'm not following it or anything but i do remember reading it a while back. Agree with your post for sure.

    Keep it simple. Lift heavy and often, watch cal intake without starving yourself, move more = win.
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  27. #147
    Registered User Extrado's Avatar
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    I approve of op's post.
    But I understand that instead of looking for that magic number of calories for some people it's easier to just eat a bit more when bulking and eat a bit less when cutting.
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  28. #148
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    Good article, thanks!
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  29. #149
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    OP i have some questions...firstly, your advice looks good...but i wanna ask that wouldnt cutting and bulking speed up the process? i mean it took you 2 years to get from fat to fit @ your theory but i think you could have done that under an year if your did bulk and cut cycles...also, wouldnt eating at maintenance just maintain your body instead of burning fat or adding muscle?

    ps- i m a semi-newb and approx 18% bf..thats why i wanna take your advice if this article's true..but i just wanted to get my confusions cleared.
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  30. #150
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    Originally Posted by superstrongboy View Post
    OP i have some questions...firstly, your advice looks good...but i wanna ask that wouldnt cutting and bulking speed up the process? i mean it took you 2 years to get from fat to fit @ your theory but i think you could have done that under an year if your did bulk and cut cycles...also, wouldnt eating at maintenance just maintain your body instead of burning fat or adding muscle?

    ps- i m a semi-newb and approx 18% bf..thats why i wanna take your advice if this article's true..but i just wanted to get my confusions cleared.
    You cant speed up how fast your body synthesizes lean tissue.
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