Progress, Progress, Progress

[DFisco]

no matter what program you follow...you have to balance the intensity and volume in order to make continual progress without getting cns burnout or injury.

Sheiko is simply on the extreme end of the volume scale, and thus accordingly is lower in its intensity (ie % of 1 rm).

Failure is not a necessity for strength gains, in fact it has not proven to be more or less effective....however we do know it can much more likely cause cns strain that staying shy of failure. What is necessary is training with weights that are at least 70% of your 1rm and using progressive overload. There are many ways to go about doing this....sheiko is one example, max ot is another westside is another.

And Louie simmons, the guy who created the westside method (not dave tate) really simply just modeled a program out of the "conjugate" method, which essentially just daily undulating periodization and using the maximum effort and dynamic effort approaches to gaining strength. The innovation of using accomodating resistance (bands, chains etc) is really quite secondary in the "westside method".

Westside is very much the "jeet kun do" of weight lifting because it is supposed to be extremely personalized and individual. You can set up a routine without any band or chain work and it could still be called westside. You can also use the repeated effort method instead of dynamic effort methods and its still westside.

In fact, westside philosophy is pretty amorphous....a lot of the original emphasis on changing up exercises very frequently is not even a central theme as much as it was originally. The concept of frequent changes in exercises I personally am almost diametrically opposed to. I am very against the idea of changing up exercises too frequently and I train accordingly with an "a" and "b" set of exercises, and yet I'm still technically doing westside.

Its a tough one to pin down...and you don't need chains or bands. People who represent westside as a training system that is built around bands and chains are missing the key point of it.

I agree with everything you said. I may not have addressed things as well as I would have liked. First, I just wanna mention I know Louie created Westside, I just named Tate bc of mentioning how it was a good way to make money (Tate's a good businessman and is a proponent of Westside).

I do believe there are many ways to get stronger and bigger regardless of the actual program. I didn't mean to imply Westside training isn't effective, the cynicism I was really trying to portray was in regards to online emphasis on it as the "best" method (Elitefts guys, t-nation, joe d, etc) and how they're all connected and Dave Tate reaps a lot of $$$.

So, maybe to just clear things up, I wasn't questioning Westside training (or implying Westside advocates training to failure...I was talking about how I used to lift). I think we're also trying to say the same thing. I meant Westside isn't the only system, and if you spend enough time online you'd start to believe it was, and I know you're saying different ends of the spectrum both work, which I think is what we are both saying.

You actually said some of the things I meant but came out wrong, like "People who represent westside as a training system that is built around bands and chains are missing the key point of it."


And I just read my post again....I think I know where the confusion is coming from. When I said "I think this may be a good time to voice my cynicism..." it was completely unrelated to everything above it about Sheiko.

They were intended as two separate trains of thought- First Sheiko has been working and the realization that progression is important, which means not training to failure like I used to, and Secondly- since I was talking about programs I thought I could mention something incidental I've noticed- that the slew of online information advocating westside is a great way to make money if you happen to own an online business named elitefts (lol I buy stuff from there all the time anyway).

I can see why it was confusing...and I probably shouldn't have said anything since I knew it wasn't gonna be clear. I really shouldn't have talked about Sheiko's effectiveness and then transitioned to something I don't like about Westside being a business bc it implied I was saying Sheiko was more effective, my bad.

[Quelly]

dude i totally get you....and I actually wasn't connecting the two separate points you made in your post...I was at first just talking about failure, and commenting on the whole "add weight to the bar!" convo you had with dylan (even if it was joking), and just talking about intensity and volume in general and how it related to sheiko...and then I transitioned to talking about westside lol....so yeah....I tend to blend my thoughts together too....I think the only thing I *thought* we disagreed on was that a cornerstone of westside training is bands and chains....but no your right....we do agree on all points

[DFisco]

cool cool.

HIIT, etc

HIIT: Sprints
-5 min warm up
-10 intervals
-5 min cooldown

Situps
-BW x 15
-25 lb plate behind neck x 12 (2 sets)
-35 lb plates x 12

BB Static Holds w/ Fat Gripz
-135 x 30 sec
-185 x 30 sec (2 sets)

Side Bends
-45 x 15 each side (3 sets)

[DFisco]

Sheiko #29, Week Four, Day 1

Squats
-Bar x 5
-135 x 5
-205 x 5
-245 x 4
-285 x 3 (2 sets)
-325 x 3 (5 sets)

Bench Press
-Bar x 5
-95 x 5
-155 x 5
-180 x 5
-210 x 4 (5 sets)

DB Flies
-30 x 10 (5 sets)

Dips
-BW x 8
-45 lb plate x 8 (5 sets)

Front Squat
-135 x 5
-160 x 5 (2 sets)
-205 x 4 (2 sets)
-245 x 3 (3 sets)

Skipped 5 x 5 Good mornings.

The bar at school is way harder to bench with than the one I have at home...I've just never noticed it before since I only used that one.

Front squat form has a long way to go. My right hand was feeling it on the last two sets of 245...I guess having a metal plate in there doesn't make it too flexible.

[Active247]

The bar at school is way harder to bench with than the one I have at home...I've just never noticed it before since I only used that one.

how so.......????

[DFisco]

how so.......????

The chrome bar that you always bitch about...yea...it actually is harder than the normal (black) ones. It's thicker, I forget by how much...I think Adam said a # one day but I forget..or could be lying idk. The bar I have at my house has the same diameter as the black one. 210 lbs on the chrome one felt like 240 on the one at my house...and the one at my house does weigh 45 lbs lol.

I've never noticed the chrome one was harder...bc that was the only one I've always used.

[Active247]

The chrome bar that you always bitch about...yea...it actually is harder than the normal (black) ones. It's thicker, I forget by how much...I think Adam said a # one day but I forget..or could be lying idk. The bar I have at my house has the same diameter as the black one. 210 lbs on the chrome one felt like 240 on the one at my house...and the one at my house does weigh 45 lbs lol.

I've never noticed the chrome one was harder...bc that was the only one I've always used.

i believe you owe me an apology...

just kidding haha... i hate to i told you so... but, i told you so! haha

EDIT: could also explain your static holds when doing grip work compared to the RU strong competition...

[malfee]

i always hate using the chrome bars as well. not only are they slightly thicker, but the grip surface makes holding the bar plain uncomfortable. black skinnier bars ftw.

[Active247]

i always hate using the chrome bars as well. not only are they slightly thicker, but the grip surface makes holding the bar plain uncomfortable. black skinnier bars ftw.

not so much worried about comfort as i am with grip. my hands are already torn to ****. anything i hold is basically uncomfortable now hahah... but that's why it's good to have a girlfriend

[DFisco]

i always hate using the chrome bars as well. not only are they slightly thicker, but the grip surface makes holding the bar plain uncomfortable. black skinnier bars ftw.

You would like the skinny black ones...lol

not so much worried about comfort as i am with grip. my hands are already torn to ****. anything i hold is basically uncomfortable now hahah... but that's why it's good to have a girlfriend

yeaa yeaa...you told me so. i love messing with my calluses during class...time flies...

[DFisco]

MISS/LISS, Core, Calves

MISS/LISS
-Rower
-10 mins MISS
-15 mins LISS
-4940 m

Sprinter Situps//45 Degree Hypers
-10 lb? med ball x 24//BW x 12 (3 sets)

Donkey Calf Raises
-BW x 12
-2 plates x 12
-4 paltes x 12 (5 sets)

[malfee]

not so much worried about comfort as i am with grip. my hands are already torn to ****. anything i hold is basically uncomfortable now hahah... but that's why it's good to have a girlfriend

my hands are plenty torn up as well, but the "grip" on the chrome bars just digs into my hands to the point at which my grip will give out earlier than it should due to pain, and not forearm exhaustion.

You would like the skinny black ones...lol

lolol you know it, *******.

[DFisco]

Weight

181.6 (+0.4)

fcuk

[DFisco]

HIIT

HIIT
-Rower
-5 min warm up
-10 intervals
-5 min cooldown

Sprinter Situps//Reverse Situps
-BW x 15//BW x 15 (3 sets)

Leg Press Calf Raise
-3 plates x 10
-5 plates x 8
-6 plates x 7
-7 plates x 6
-8 plates x 5
-7 plates x 6
-6 plates x 7
-5 plates x 8
-4 plates x 12
-2 plates (one legged) x 8, 3 sets each leg

[Active247]

my hands are plenty torn up as well, but the "grip" on the chrome bars just digs into my hands to the point at which my grip will give out earlier than it should due to pain, and not forearm exhaustion.

chalk up and deal with it if they're all you've got!

[Active247]

You gonna be at practice on Saturday??

[DFisco]

You gonna be at practice on Saturday??

I'm actually going down to TCNJ tomorrow night through Saturday night, so probably not. I'm gonna try to get my shirt money in tomorrow though...you gonna be in at 4? BTW was gonna ask if I can cop a serving of Quake for my final Sheiko workout on Saturday haha...if not don't worry about it.

Sheiko #29, Week 4, Day 2

Bench Press
-Bar x 5
-95 x 5
-140 x 5
-170 x 4
-195 x 3 (2 sets)
-225 x 3 (2 sets)
-240 x 2 (3 sets)

Deadlifts
-135 x 5 DO
-240 x 3 DO
-285 x 3 DO
-335 x 3 (2 sets) DO
-380 x 3 (2 sets) ALT
-405 x 2 (3 sets) (PR) ALT
-380 x 2 (3 sets) ALT

Bench Press
-140 x 5
-170 x 5
-195 x 5 (4 sets)

DB Flies
-30 x 10 (5 sets)

LISS
-Rower
-25 mins, 4575 m

This was a real tough workout for me. I was real sluggish...had no energy. Used the black bar on benching...felt a little better. My form was off...second round of benching it was good though, guess I wasn't concentrating enough on it. Deadlifts were absolutely brutal...I've never done that much volume using those weights before. It felt like I was in the gym forever...and I normally take long...but today was excessive.

In good news I have an interview next Friday for a possible internship at a strength and conditioning place that implements a lot of sports psychology stuff (what I'd be going to grad school for if I decide on it)...let's hope I don't screw it up.

[DFisco]

Pulls/Prehab/LISS

Weighted Chins
-BW x 6
-25 x 6 (5 sets)

Pinwheel Curls
-40 x 20 (2 sets)
-45 x 20 (PR)

Rack Chins
-BW x 10
-35 x 10 (2 sets)
-45 x 10//BW x 10 (PR)

One Arm DB Rows
-80 x 10 each arm
-100 x 10 (3 sets each arm)

Snatch Grip Shrugs
-135 x 10
-225 x 8
-245 x 8 (3 sets)

Alt. DB Curls//DB Rear Delt Flies
-35 x 20//20 x 10 (3 sets)

Muscle Snatch
-Bar x 8 (3 sets)
L-Lateral Raises
-15 x 8 (3 sets)

LISS
-25 mins, rower, 4650m

Felt pretty good today...saw some vascularity on the pinwheels that I've never seen before so that was kinda cool. Last day of Sheiko tomorrow.

[DFisco]

Weight

180.4 (-1.2)

Sheiko #29, Week 4, Day 3

Squats
-Bar x 5
-135 x 5
-205 x 5
-245 x 4
-285 x 3 (2 sets)
-325 x 3 (6 sets)

Bench Press
-Bar x 5
-95 x 5
-140 x 6
-170 x 5
-195 x 4 (2 sets)
-225 x 3 (2 sets)
-240 x 2 (2 sets)
-225 x 3 (2 sets)
-195 x 4
-170 x 6
-140 x 8

DB Flies
-35 x 10 (5 sets)

Dips
-BW x 8
-50 x 8 (5 sets)

Squats felt alright, but I was worn out when I got to bench...felt pretty heavy...225 felt a little heavy but when I hit it on the downside of the pyramid it felt better. Lifted at TCNJ today in some dungeon that no one was in (literally no one)...pretty cool.

This was the last day of Sheiko...deloading for a week...definitely need it, might be maxing some lifts the following week.

[Active247]

Just saw your post about the Quake... best to just text me. And absolutely I can lend you some... but it's more like 4 really small scoops haha. Nice work on the Sheiko. What are your final thoughts about it (before you try maxing)?

[DFisco]

Just saw your post about the Quake... best to just text me. And absolutely I can lend you some... but it's more like 4 really small scoops haha. Nice work on the Sheiko. What are your final thoughts about it (before you try maxing)?

Don't worry about the Quake, I had to order some stuff so I put in an order for some...also trying orange xtend...hopefully not as disappointing as apple was.

As far as Sheiko, I don't really have a lot of clear opinions on it right now. The reason I started it was because I wanted to do more of the big three lifts with built in progression rather than just hitting them each once a week. One of the main "problems" is the high volume of the workouts take a long time, my shortest was two hours. Lower energy from dietting probably didn't help this much.

The frequency and volume of doing the main lifts does help correct form issues, as long as you make yourself consciously aware of what you're doing/what you need to be doing. I feel like my setup got better on bench because of this. I found a new, narrower squat stance that allowed me to hit weights that I knew I could prior, but with new leverages the old stance wasn't working. My hip drive on deadlifts got better from the rack pulls...something I never used to do. The initial drive with my legs is still a little lacking on deadlifts, I feel like deficits worked this aspect better than the deadlift to knees did. On my last dl session I was getting it off the ground and about 2 inches up it got pretty hard, once I got to my knees it was easy to lockout.

Depending on the person I guess it can get a little boring if you run multiple cycles of Sheiko in a row...there's not a lot of different accessory exercises. There's also no real pulling movements, which is why I added a day for that.

I will admit I'm surprised that my shoulder held up fine benching three times a week for four weeks. Some RC work, broomstick dislocations and some joint supplements have kept it in check, along with the lower intensity.

But like I said, I don't really have opinions or predictions on how well this run of 29 worked for me. I might max on bench and squats...I highly doubt I'll be able to hit above my dl max...that was the one exercise that I never got acclimated to on Sheiko while dietting.

I'm glad it's a deload week (surprise...I'll prob be saying deloads are lame middle of the week anyway), I felt like on my last couple bench sessions my pressing ability was shot. Gonna use this week to mentally regroup as well for the maxing sessions. I'll probably keep weights around 70% for the most part. The user Frankdaddy recommended that I throw in a speed session for the lifts once before I max, so I'll try to work those in as well.

[DFisco]

HIIT, Core, Calves

HIIT
-Rower
-5 mins warm up
-10 intervals
-5 mins cooldown
-3950m

Sprinter Situps//Reverse Situps
-BW x 15//BW x 15 (3 sets)

45 Degree Hypers
-BW x 15 (3 sets)

One Legged Calf Raises DC Style
-BW x 15 each leg (PR)

[Active247]

Don't worry about the Quake, I had to order some stuff so I put in an order for some...also trying orange xtend...hopefully not as disappointing as apple was.

As far as Sheiko, I don't really have a lot of clear opinions on it right now. The reason I started it was because I wanted to do more of the big three lifts with built in progression rather than just hitting them each once a week. One of the main "problems" is the high volume of the workouts take a long time, my shortest was two hours. Lower energy from dietting probably didn't help this much.

The frequency and volume of doing the main lifts does help correct form issues, as long as you make yourself consciously aware of what you're doing/what you need to be doing. I feel like my setup got better on bench because of this. I found a new, narrower squat stance that allowed me to hit weights that I knew I could prior, but with new leverages the old stance wasn't working. My hip drive on deadlifts got better from the rack pulls...something I never used to do. The initial drive with my legs is still a little lacking on deadlifts, I feel like deficits worked this aspect better than the deadlift to knees did. On my last dl session I was getting it off the ground and about 2 inches up it got pretty hard, once I got to my knees it was easy to lockout.

Depending on the person I guess it can get a little boring if you run multiple cycles of Sheiko in a row...there's not a lot of different accessory exercises. There's also no real pulling movements, which is why I added a day for that.

I will admit I'm surprised that my shoulder held up fine benching three times a week for four weeks. Some RC work, broomstick dislocations and some joint supplements have kept it in check, along with the lower intensity.

But like I said, I don't really have opinions or predictions on how well this run of 29 worked for me. I might max on bench and squats...I highly doubt I'll be able to hit above my dl max...that was the one exercise that I never got acclimated to on Sheiko while dietting.

I'm glad it's a deload week (surprise...I'll prob be saying deloads are lame middle of the week anyway), I felt like on my last couple bench sessions my pressing ability was shot. Gonna use this week to mentally regroup as well for the maxing sessions. I'll probably keep weights around 70% for the most part. The user Frankdaddy recommended that I throw in a speed session for the lifts once before I max, so I'll try to work those in as well.

apple was a disappointment?!?!? orange is definitely not as good. apple and grape are best, followed by watermelon and blue raspberry.

i see what you mean, though. it's hard to give it a solid/complete review when on a calorie deficit, since the volume definitely will take it's toll on the body more so than if you were eating enough. i was thinking of stopping you (from changing splits) before you started cutting, since multiple variables are a lot harder to take into account when dieting. best course of action would probably have been to stick to your (then) current split and saw it through until your desired weight. BUT, you weren't doing a show, so i decided against it. either way you're fine and it's never bad to get some diversity in your lifting. i'd say come back to this split when you're macros are more suited to the demands this split requires. i think you'll see some noticeable differences without a doubt.

70% is a perfect percentage... you could even come down in volume as well and cut a set out (or two, depending). can't really comment on the speed work since i'm not too knowledgeable in that area. should be fine though. but like i said through my text, a deload is a deload, treat it as such (except for the HIIT).

[DFisco]

Yea makes complete sense about changing splits...and I will come back to Sheiko at some point, maybe over the summer.

Squats, Bench (Deload)

Squats
-Bar x 5
-135 x 5
-205 x 3
-245 x 3
-285 x 3 (2 sets)

Box Squats
-225 x 2 (4 sets)

Bench Press
-Bar x 5
-95 x 5
-140 x 3
-170 x 3
-195 x 2 (2 sets)

Floor Press
-Bar x 5
-135 x 3
-185 x 3 (2 sets)

LISS
-25 mins, rower, 4680 m

[Active247]

Yea makes complete sense about changing splits...and I will come back to Sheiko at some point, maybe over the summer.

nice nice... maybe i'll join you. who knows...

[InclineDBPresss]

Nice journal here man looks like you have made good progress, I just read a few pgs.

I might try that rower out for LISS some time, seems like a good idea

[DFisco]

Nice journal here man looks like you have made good progress, I just read a few pgs.

I might try that rower out for LISS some time, seems like a good idea

Thanks man, the rower's pretty decent.

MISS/LISS
-Rower
-10 mins MISS
-15 mins LISS

Donkey Calf Raises (Deload)
-1 plate x 10
-2 plates x 10 (3 sets)

[DFisco]

Orange Xtend...I dig...a lot...

[DFisco]

Weight

179.6 (-0.8)

[Active247]

Orange Xtend...I dig...a lot...

and just for the record, i never said orange wasn't a good flavor... just not my fave.

Weight

179.6 (-0.8)

good stuff dude, only -4.6 lbs to go!