why are most olympic lifters so weak

[gewaltiger]

Why is you back squat low in relation to the classic lifts, just really good technique? I have really long legs which gives me a huge rom and a tough sticking point. It takes me forever to add strength to the squat, I've always had problems with squatting. Any advice on how someone like that might best progress on the classic lifts?

yeah i guess im fairly efficient at the lifts now. the only problem i had before was hip extension (i was basically powercleaning weights like 275 up) and drop speed. somehow those got fixed when i got back from a month long field op in which i didnt lift the whole time. now i can extend and drop very well, but my strength has gone down a loooot. i used to front squat 335lbs x 1 and 315 x 2-3, today i did 290 x 2 and it was very rough but i still basically hit the same #'s.
all i do for squat is go for a new doubles PR every time i front squat of atleast 5lbs. when i fail to make a 5lb doubles pr i rep out a weight 10-20lbs less for 5 and try again next workout. if i fail still i restart it completely from like 80%. my advice is to work on flexibility and catch as much reflex as you can at the bottom of your squat and push your knees out and ass "through" while going up. i think i have a pretty long torso in comparison to my body so it may be easier for me to gain squat lbs tho
to progress on the classic lifts i have two alternate workouts. the first one i try to rep out 90%ish as much reps as i can (in singles ofcourse). the second workout i work up to 95 or 100% (depending on how i feel). make sure you are extending your hips through all the way and also shrug and pull under. now i am going up in a very controlled manner and accelerate mid-thigh and concentrate on having a very explosive "pop" at the 2nd pull then drop very fast pulling myself under with the shrug

[TAK000]

The thing is in my quest to finding an ideal program for myself I encountered something odd? Most of these programs rarely had classic strength exercises such as rows, strict pressing, curls, benching, deadlifts, good mornings.
What I was thinking was well I see it very often in strongman(and no not just people who are 220lb+) people don?t train for Olympic lifting then they start training their clean and jerk and can out C&J most people who only focus on the Olympic lifts. If the basic strength exercises create such a good starting base for so many people who want to get into Olympic lifts why is it not smart to focus on them while also focusing on the Olympic lifts and their technique aspect.

i did not mean to bash or hurt anyones feelings...

[Arlecchino]

Many OL'ing programs feature squats, good mornings, etc. This is where I learned how to do them.

Gym I trained at in college had both OL'ers and PL'ers, and they recruited me to help out in a deadlift only meet. First time I ever deadlifted, but I could still make 198 at the time because it was not long after hockey season. I had been an OL'er for five years. My attempts were: 500, 550, missed 600. That was the first time I had ever done a conventional deadlift in my life.

The curl is not a classic strength exercise. Great if you are an arm-wrestler, or looking to compete in the strict curl, I suppose, but otherwise, not so very useful. Benching has the least amount of transfer to other activities out of all the contested lifts. Your selection of what is a strength exercise is highly flawed.

Many OL'ers do rows, including pretty much everyone I train. So does every powerlifter I have ever trained.

Your view of what occurs in OL'ing is at odds with what actually does occur.

[madaozeki]

The thing is in my quest to finding an ideal program for myself I encountered something odd? Most of these programs rarely had classic strength exercises such as rows, strict pressing, curls, benching, deadlifts, good mornings.
What I was thinking was well I see it very often in strongman(and no not just people who are 220lb+) people don?t train for Olympic lifting then they start training their clean and jerk and can out C&J most people who only focus on the Olympic lifts. If the basic strength exercises create such a good starting base for so many people who want to get into Olympic lifts why is it not smart to focus on them while also focusing on the Olympic lifts and their technique aspect.

i did not mean to bash or hurt anyones feelings...

The highlighted part is simply untrue.

You have to compare apples to apples. Most people who train for strongman have been training and building strength for years and years and years. Conversely, most people who you have probably encountered who train only for Oly lifts are relatively new to the sport and don't have nearly the same strength background. They are simply not at the same level in their sport that the strongmen/powerlifters you probably know are in theirs.

In my experience, people who train Olympic lifts casually are a totally different population than people who train strongman and powerlifting. The selection bias is evident in your observations. A real test would be to take a group of untrained individuals, or regular typical gym-goers or athletes from a different sport, split them up, train half on an Oly program and half on a powerlifting/strongman program. Then you'd have your answer.

Furthermore, you have to compare lifters of the same weight. A lightweight strongman should be able to outlift me never having training Olympic lifts before, because they're way bigger and stronger than me, and that will overwhelm any technique advantages I would have.

All that being said, if you compare your proposed strongman or powerlifter to an Olympic lifter who has been training Olympic lifts for years and years, you'll see a very different result.

Just as a single (granted anecdotal) example, at my old gym in Philadelphia we had only one long-term Olympic lifter. He lifts in the 105 class and puts up around 120/165, which is respectable, but not even close to being elite. At the same gym, we have a few of the top lightweight strongmen in the country. All of them train Olympic lifts on and off as part of their training, but obviously their focus is on the powerlifts (800+ squats and 700+ pulls) and event training. Even with all that surplus strength PLUS decent technique, they still can't touch the Oly lifter's lifts. They hover around 100-110 and 140-150.

So keep in mind all these things when making generalizations.

[Arlecchino]

So keep in mind all these things when making generalizations.

Smart money says he will not.

[TAK000]

Smart money says he will not.

then you sir would lose you money making the assumption that i am not close minded. This thread does make me realize that my origional post although it had a few valid observations is mostly wrong.

im not that guy who doesnt realize when hes wrong

[Arlecchino]

then you sir would lose you money making the assumption that i am not close minded. This thread does make me realize that my origional post although it had a few valid observations is mostly wrong.

im not that guy who doesnt realize when hes wrong

You continue to state what OL'ing programs consist of. I was competing before you were born, and I have seen a ton of different programs, etc. and even after multiple people have pointed out your errors, you continue to make the same erroneous statements.


You need to be strong to be a successful OL'er. Everyone knows this, my neighbor's freakin' dog knows this, it is that obvious. Yet you continue to assert that OL'ers do not practice strength exercises.

No idea why.

[IGF-WON]

If the basic strength exercises create such a good starting base for so many people who want to get into Olympic lifts why is it not smart to focus on them while also focusing on the Olympic lifts and their technique aspect.

if someone enjoys the olympic lifts more than "basic strength lifts" why not focus training on those lifts which are what he/she likes to do most?

[gbg]

if someone enjoys the olympic lifts more than "basic strength lifts" why not focus training on those lifts which are what he/she likes to do most?

Because it's not what you want to do it's what you need to do.

[Waachback]

I would say 405 is pretty achievable for most people after 2 years of squatting. I hit it after about a year. But how often do you squat?

It's very achievable....I've done 455 (low bar, belt, Upper thighs parallel) it in 1 1/2 years squating heavy once a week and doing assistance work once a week.

[madaozeki]

Because it's not what you want to do it's what you need to do.

Well if someone just likes training for Oly lifting like someone else plays semi-competitive squash, then what they "need" to do to become the best possible lifter may not be the same as what they "need" to do to simply continue making progress and enjoying training as much as possible, just like the weekend squash player may "need" to do certain drills over and over again, but may hate them, so is willing to sacrifice doing them so they can just enjoy the sport.

[Arlecchino]

Well if someone just likes training for Oly lifting like someone else plays semi-competitive squash, then what they "need" to do to become the best possible lifter may not be the same as what they "need" to do to simply continue making progress and enjoying training as much as possible, just like the weekend squash player may "need" to do certain drills over and over again, but may hate them, so is willing to sacrifice doing them so they can just enjoy the sport.

Then when they compete against someone who was more focused on what was necessary, they deserve to lose.

While it is not exactly PC any more to say it in some places, we keep track of things like points for a reason. Competition fuels excellence.

[gbg]

Well if someone just likes training for Oly lifting like someone else plays semi-competitive squash, then what they "need" to do to become the best possible lifter may not be the same as what they "need" to do to simply continue making progress and enjoying training as much as possible, just like the weekend squash player may "need" to do certain drills over and over again, but may hate them, so is willing to sacrifice doing them so they can just enjoy the sport.

So just because you don't compete means you shouldn't do your best?

Sorry but I don't need competition to fuel my workouts to be the best I can, I compete with myself which in itself can be more than enough!

[Arlecchino]

So just because you don't compete means you shouldn't do your best?

Sorry but I don't need competition to fuel my workouts to be the best I can, I compete with myself which in itself can be more than enough!

<wipes away tear>

[gbg]

<wipes away tear>

Cry baby.

[madaozeki]

Then when they compete against someone who was more focused on what was necessary, they deserve to lose.

While it is not exactly PC any more to say it in some places, we keep track of things like points for a reason. Competition fuels excellence.

Agreed, but there are plenty of people out there who participate in certain sports for the enjoyment and exhilaration, and don't particularly care about the outcome all that much. And yes, those people deserve to and will lose They may be ultra-competitive in some other aspect of their life, but turn to sport for stress release or diversion.

So just because you don't compete means you shouldn't do your best?

Sorry but I don't need competition to fuel my workouts to be the best I can, I compete with myself which in itself can be more than enough!

See above

[Arlecchino]

Agreed, but there are plenty of people out there who participate in certain sports for the enjoyment and exhilaration, and don't particularly care about the outcome all that much. And yes, those people deserve to and will lose They may be ultra-competitive in some other aspect of their life, but turn to sport for stress release or diversion.

I will crush their spirit and feast on their souls.

[madaozeki]

I will crush their spirit and feast on their souls.

They'll probably enjoy it based on their personality defect.

[Arlecchino]

They'll probably enjoy it based on their personality defect.

Kinda of chewy and stringy, and not as satisfying as those born with the will to win. Nothing as satisfying in life as the realization that you are an apex predator.

[gbg]

Kinda of chewy and stringy, and not as satisfying as those born with the will to win. Nothing as satisfying in life as the realization that you are an apex predator.

^^^^^^^For some odd reason this made me smile

[J.L.C.]

...
What I was thinking was well I see it very often in strongman(and no not just people who are 220lb+) people don?t train for Olympic lifting then they start training their clean and jerk and can out C&J most people who only focus on the Olympic lifts....

Do you have some examples or evidence of this?

[Marc27Default]

Powerlifting is something that anyone can try and do thats why there are way more powerlifters than oly lifters, and that is why power lifting will never be an olympic sport...

I believe there are more competing weightlifters in the world than there are powerlifters. The reason powerlifting will never be an olympic sport are the problems with judging, the use of supportive gear, and the fact that there is already one barbell lifting sport in the olympics.

[Arlecchino]

Powerlifting is something that anyone can try and do thats why there are way more powerlifters than oly lifters, and that is why power lifting will never be an olympic sport... Now i am not an oly lifter I just like to do clean and press and olympic squats as they make you stronger than parallel squats. Konstantin Konstantinovs does olympic squats , he says it helps him improve his deadlifts way better than parralel powerlifting squats.

Completely missed this.

Back inna' day, everyone was an OL'er. It was the standard. Everyone could do it. And they still can.

[AusLifter06]

The "oddball" powerlifter just grew and thrived, now it's almost the other way around.

[IGF-WON]

Well if someone just likes training for Oly lifting like someone else plays semi-competitive squash, then what they "need" to do to become the best possible lifter may not be the same as what they "need" to do to simply continue making progress and enjoying training as much as possible, just like the weekend squash player may "need" to do certain drills over and over again, but may hate them, so is willing to sacrifice doing them so they can just enjoy the sport.

i doubt weekend squash players do a whole lot of drills instead of just playing squash. Not a great correlation to use, but i see plenty of recreational tennis players who dont go out and do footwork drills to get better even if they have terrible footwork.

Plenty of recreational bball players dont go practice defensive slides so they can win their next game.

I do think its hard to relate other sports (other than track and field) to weightlifting, and i also do attempt to increase my limited strength to help my olympic lifts.

[Norse1308]

Idk, I always thought training specificity. If you want to get better at oly lifts, do those, and vice versa. I wouldn't necessarily say Oly lifters are weak, but the general population usually equates "Strength" with the benchpress (which is stupid imo).

And a 200 row doesn't mean ****, as long as their competition lifts are high its ok.

[Marc27Default]

Strength means maximum application of force.
Power means the rate that force can be applied at.

You can be massively strong and not be that powerful.

You can be powerful while lacking some maximal strength but this is less likely.

The power component is far more important in weightlifting than other general strength lifts. You have to be strong to be good at weightlifting and between two people of equal skill, the stronger will usually win.

This being said weightlifting is not just about doing the clean and jerk and snatch. You pretty much have to learn to squat and become very good at it. Most people also do heavy pulls. Some do heavy presses but not all. Most of the people in this section do heavy squats, heavy pulls, and some pressing. I doubt there are any that do olympic lifting without these strength lifts. Many of us just are not that advanced yet.

To say we would be better if only we squatted, pulled, and pressed is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure we all already do that!

[madaozeki]

i doubt weekend squash players do a whole lot of drills instead of just playing squash. Not a great correlation to use, but i see plenty of recreational tennis players who dont go out and do footwork drills to get better even if they have terrible footwork.

Plenty of recreational bball players dont go practice defensive slides so they can win their next game.

I do think its hard to relate other sports (other than track and field) to weightlifting, and i also do attempt to increase my limited strength to help my olympic lifts.

I didn't phrase it very well, but that's exactly what I was trying to say about squash

[IGF-WON]

I didn't phrase it very well, but that's exactly what I was trying to say about squash

i see, i thought you were saying the opposite haha

[PeonLover]

How can you enjoy competition without winning? Losing sucks a lot more than everything else like putting in time and effort to be the best so you don't have to deal with losing because losing is the worst.