why are most olympic lifters so weak

[madaozeki]

I also feel that most people (guys) should be able to squat over 300. I squatted quite a bit more than that as an OL'er, and the squat is not my best lift. Nor was I the best squatter, or OL'er, on my team when I was competing.

Sure, but not "everyone" weighs 230lbs. Or 200. Or 185. Or 165. Or 140. Will all of those be able to squat over 300? Maybe 50-75%. 400? Maybe 5% Maybe.

Agree with everything else you posted.

[Arlecchino]

Sure, but not "everyone" weighs 230lbs. Or 200. Or 185. Or 165. Or 140. Will all of those be able to squat over 300? Maybe 50-75%. 400? Maybe 5% Maybe.

Agree with everything else you posted.

Well, I am also assuming that most people are going to grow. Old adage of 'you wanna lift big, ya gotta get big' applies pretty much across the board.

Some people would be a lot better off growing into a new weight class. Improvements in leverage alone that come with the increased mass often help stabilize the ABS (athlete-barbell system). This is something that some schools seem to have forgotten. If you are beating your head against a wall year after year to make weight and your total is not improving, the solution is painfully simple in most cases.


And most high school athletes that lift tend to gain quite a bit of size. Prime years for it. Really, ideal time since so many seem to have the metabolism of a hummingbird, and can gain muscle with almost no increase in fat mass, which is supremely unfair.

[J.L.C.]

i disagree as well. Most people who are physically able to do a proper squat should and will squat 300 even 400 if training is right, be it a olympic style squat or a PL style.

Back to the subject of the thread.

people who get into olympic weightlifting in order to be better at olympic lifts usually stay weak as **** at the basic 3 lifts, and i think its such a miss conception that the basic lifts wont carry over to the olympic lifts. I dont see how someone with a stronger back (from deadlifts, rows ect) who has the same technique as someone with a weaker back wont be able to handle more weight on the olympic lifts.

maybe i am missing something..

Any vids of your feats of strength?

Training the oly lifts has definitely given me some huge strength gains (at least in squats and pulls, I don't really care about bench press).

Have you ever done heavy snatches or C&Js? The fact that you think you need 'power'lifts to develop back strength leads me to think you haven't.

[madaozeki]

Well, I am also assuming that most people are going to grow. Old adage of 'you wanna lift big, ya gotta get big' applies pretty much across the board.

Some people would be a lot better off growing into a new weight class. Improvements in leverage alone that come with the increased mass often help stabilize the ABS (athlete-barbell system). This is something that some schools seem to have forgotten. If you are beating your head against a wall year after year to make weight and your total is not improving, the solution is painfully simple in most cases.


And most high school athletes that lift tend to gain quite a bit of size. Prime years for it. Really, ideal time since so many seem to have the metabolism of a hummingbird, and can gain muscle with almost no increase in fat mass, which is supremely unfair.

Hahaha I agree 100%, but the fact remains that some people just don't have the frame to put on huge slabs of muscle. At 5'5 with very light bone structure in my upper body, I can't imagine weighing 180, 190 or above, which I might need to to approach a legitimate 400lb squat.

Hmmm, all this talk has made me want to go squat

[LessThanLuke]

Sure, but not "everyone" weighs 230lbs. Or 200. Or 185. Or 165. Or 140. Will all of those be able to squat over 300? Maybe 50-75%. 400? Maybe 5% Maybe.

Agree with everything else you posted.

But if those 140lbers ate and trained correctly and consistently they would grow and get bigger and stronger.

[J.L.C.]

But if those 140lbers ate and trained correctly and consistently they would grow and get bigger and stronger.

A lean 200+lbs at 5'5 really isn't going to happen without the help of carefully administered "restoratives".

[madaozeki]

But if those 140lbers ate and trained correctly and consistently they would grow and get bigger and stronger.

Not if they're 5'2.

Define "correctly".

Too many factors you're not even thinking of considering.

I have to be done with this thread because it's like beating my head against a wall with iron spikes protruding from it.

[Arlecchino]

Hahaha I agree 100%, but the fact remains that some people just don't have the frame to put on huge slabs of muscle. At 5'5 with very light bone structure in my upper body, I can't imagine weighing 180, 190 or above, which I might need to to approach a legitimate 400lb squat.

Hmmm, all this talk has made me want to go squat

Yeah, but when talking about averages, you need to consider the average male (statistically), and you are 5" below average US male height. (no, not taking a shot at you for once). Point being, if you are going to talk about what the average guy can do, it also needs to be an average sized guy.

[CleStrong]

I just read through these posts and I have to say, as a strongman and powerlifting lifter and also 300lbs in body weight....I have NEVER seen a PL'er do a heavy snatch or C&J like the Oly guys can. Sure, you may see Big Z 'continental' clean a huge amount of weight, but when a 5'6" guy who weighs 180lbs rips almost 500lbs off the floor and puts it over his head...? Come on now. I will put money on the fact that no single PL'er can just cross over, drop to 180lbs, get off his juice and put that kind of weight overhead...especially without his 3ply suit on.

Don't get me wrong...I love PL'ing and Strongman with all my heart.....but facts are facts

[Arlecchino]

No discussion of AAS.

Zero tolerance right now. Please continue with the discussion, nothing to see here, please move along.


Thanks guys.

[Slovakian_Pride]

i disagree as well. Most people who are physically able to do a proper squat should and will squat 300 even 400 if training is right, be it a olympic style squat or a PL style.

Back to the subject of the thread.

people who get into olympic weightlifting in order to be better at olympic lifts usually stay weak as **** at the basic 3 lifts, and i think its such a miss conception that the basic lifts wont carry over to the olympic lifts. I dont see how someone with a stronger back (from deadlifts, rows ect) who has the same technique as someone with a weaker back wont be able to handle more weight on the olympic lifts.

maybe i am missing something..

To be able to throw 400lbs above your head obviously they're going to have to be able to squat and deadlift a lot. With bench it would probably be weak because a lot of oly lifters never train bench because they see it as a useless exercise. Judging an entire category of oly lifters from a message board not even designed for oly lifters is stupid anyway.

Strength is subjective. If oly lifting was as easy as people with big 3 lift numbers being able to lift massive amounts for clean and jerk and snatch than you'd be seeing powerlifters dominating oly lifting. But that doesn't happen. For a powerlifter to develop a technique equal to an oly lifter they'd need to devote a lot of time to learning oly technique. Brute strength is definitely benefical but it's not the be all end all of lifting. This is because technique is a major factor. Take someone like Mark Henry who had beastly squatting and deadlifting power and tried to convert into oly lifting. His big 3 lifts would blow away all of his competition, yet he never became the best oly lifter because he didn't have the technique. To become good at something you need to practice it religiously. That's why Eastern European countries and the Chinese believe in developing athletes technique from a very young age. Technique comes with practice and strength develops in time. But like i first said technique without strength is useless, but strength without technique is useless as well because you need both.

[nico cujo]

Anyone of you ever heard of Aranda from CUBA?
He's a 77 kg lifter who BS 4 times his bodyweight without a belt or spotters and wears only knee sleeves. I have a video of him squatting 290kg for a double.

Pablo Lara power cleaned 190kg weighing 75kg.

[madaozeki]

Anyone of you ever heard of Aranda from CUBA?
He's a 77 kg lifter who BS 4 times his bodyweight without a belt or spotters and wears only knee sleeves. I have a video of him squatting 290kg for a double.

Pablo Lara power cleaned 190kg weighing 75kg.

Yup, and those are but 2 of the hundreds and thousands of elite weightlifters who aren't "weak" in any definition of the word. None of them happen to post in the Olympic lifting section of bodybuilding.com, however

[Marc27Default]

I havent been posting much but I love arguments so here is my two cents.

Olympic lifting the the US and on this site in particular is a niche sport. Most of the people on the site are concerned with looks and general strength. Of the few that are into dedicated strength training, very few take olympic lifting seriously. Olympic lifters are on the site are in a way the "nerds" of bb.com strength training. We are not that popular. Sure famous elite lifters are respected, they have sexy legs and no one on this site can fathom what a 450lb snatch feels like. But a weight of 200lbs on the snatch doesn't sound that heavy to someone that can bench press 200 more than ten times. Even if that same person can't snatch more than 135.

How many of the more serious olympic lifters here weigh anything over 200lbs? I am about 215 right now but I am 6'3" Most of the lifters that I see post here seem to be under 200lbs. It is my own fault for not eating enough. If there are any superheavies that post here often I apologize.

I recently snatched 220lbs easily, first attempt at a weight of 210. About a week later a ground out 1 rep of 305lbs on the back squat. I blame my leverages. I don't know if I would be considered weak or strong for that. I squat very deep but 305 is a light weight for someone over 200lbs. That granted how impressive is a 220lb snatch to most people on this site?

I guess my point is find me a powerlifter "with decent form" on this site with a 305 back squat and see how close he gets to a 220lb snatch or a 265lb clean and jerk. Just like you can't expect an olylifter who jerks 300lbs to be able to bench it.


I'm rambling so...
overall...
Many of the more experienced lifters here are in the lighter weight classes.
There aren't that many experienced lifters here.
I would like to think I am strong but I am merely efficient with what little leg strength I have and I suck. I need to gain weight. But you'll see, you'll all see..... hahahahaha

[Marc27Default]

There are people who have a max BS of around 175 in the gym who have very close numbers to me in the clean and jerk becuase thats what they train.

My max BS is only 140 and my numbers are 100/120 only 2kg away from you on each lift. I would tell you to go suck it but I just said my BS is 139 so...

[PeonLover]

My max BS is only 140 and my numbers are 100/120 only 2kg away from you on each lift. I would tell you to go suck it but I just said my BS is 139 so...

I was going to say that I found the powerlifter with the 305+ BS (545), 100 snatch (102), and 120 c&j (122)

And it wasn't even that difficult!

[gewaltiger]

i've been training oly for less than a year, shoot me
ive snatched 110 and cj 130 with a BS a hair above 150
lately my strength has severely diminished (BS 315lbs yesterday... and it was hard) but since my technique has improved im still doing the same lifts. theres a good testament to technique vs. raw strength

[GoJu]

IMO, technique is really a function of flexibility/mobility, neither of which is easy to ingrain depending on the lifter; it never was for me and I've been trying to lift the same weights for about 2 years now, if one can't seem to master the technique it would be prudent to add extra strength while doing more technique work, it doesn't matter what your ratios are on the platform

[madaozeki]

IMO, technique is really a function of flexibility/mobility, neither of which is easy to ingrain depending on the lifter; it never was for me and I've been trying to lift the same weights for about 2 years now, if one can't seem to master the technique it would be prudent to add extra strength while doing more technique work, it doesn't matter what your ratios are on the platform

It's a really tough thing to balance, IMO. Extra strength is never ever a bad thing, but in some extreme cases it can be prudent to drop most, if not all, HEAVY strength work for just a few weeks while hammering on Oly technique. As you said, it's really a function of flexibility and mobility (along with speed), and it can be tough to develop those when banging away on heavy squats and pulls. And once you've developed it, muscle memory will let you maintain it much easier than it took to get there in the first place, and you can go back to building strength again.

On the other hand, if even that doesn't work, then yeah, you might as well just try to get as strong as motherly possible

[gewaltiger]

you might as well just try to get as strong as motherly possible

like me

[madaozeki]

like me

Yes, you're just like a mother.

[gewaltiger]

Yes, you're just like a mother.

thx

[ChadWilliam1]

My max BS is only 140 and my numbers are 100/120 only 2kg away from you on each lift. I would tell you to go suck it but I just said my BS is 139 so...

I competed with a 105+ last Saturday. His numbers were something like 110/140... Not really sure. He can clean more than he can front squat. He was 6'6" at least.

I am weaker than my technique will overcome IMO. I can pull the bar in a good path and I jerk straight up. I am just not strong enough to move the weight and get a good drive. I am saying as the weight increases a weakness will become apearent in my technique.

My coach took my off oly style lifts for several weeks when I first started lifting. I did a strength program all designed behind keeping my back tight so I would lose my arch on my second pull. It did help but it was all still oly lifting technique.

[GoJu]

I competed with a 105+ last Saturday. His numbers were something like 110/140... Not really sure. He can clean more than he can front squat. He was 6'6" at least.

I am weaker than my technique will overcome IMO. I can pull the bar in a good path and I jerk straight up. I am just not strong enough to move the weight and get a good drive. I am saying as the weight increases a weakness will become apearent in my technique.

My coach took my off oly style lifts for several weeks when I first started lifting. I did a strength program all designed behind keeping my back tight so I would lose my arch on my second pull. It did help but it was all still oly lifting technique.

doesn't help that you're in the wrong weightclass too as well

[nico cujo]

I havent been posting much but I love arguments so here is my two cents.

Olympic lifting the the US and on this site in particular is a niche sport. Most of the people on the site are concerned with looks and general strength. Of the few that are into dedicated strength training, very few take olympic lifting seriously. Olympic lifters are on the site are in a way the "nerds" of bb.com strength training. We are not that popular. Sure famous elite lifters are respected, they have sexy legs and no one on this site can fathom what a 450lb snatch feels like. But a weight of 200lbs on the snatch doesn't sound that heavy to someone that can bench press 200 more than ten times. Even if that same person can't snatch more than 135.

How many of the more serious olympic lifters here weigh anything over 200lbs? I am about 215 right now but I am 6'3" Most of the lifters that I see post here seem to be under 200lbs. It is my own fault for not eating enough. If there are any superheavies that post here often I apologize.

I recently snatched 220lbs easily, first attempt at a weight of 210. About a week later a ground out 1 rep of 305lbs on the back squat. I blame my leverages. I don't know if I would be considered weak or strong for that. I squat very deep but 305 is a light weight for someone over 200lbs. That granted how impressive is a 220lb snatch to most people on this site?

I guess my point is find me a powerlifter "with decent form" on this site with a 305 back squat and see how close he gets to a 220lb snatch or a 265lb clean and jerk. Just like you can't expect an olylifter who jerks 300lbs to be able to bench it.


I'm rambling so...
overall...
Many of the more experienced lifters here are in the lighter weight classes.
There aren't that many experienced lifters here.
I would like to think I am strong but I am merely efficient with what little leg strength I have and I suck. I need to gain weight. But you'll see, you'll all see..... hahahahaha

While in my 40's (yep I'm a little older than most of you), weighing 102kg, I snatched 122.5 from hang, C+J 150, benched 150, close grip benched 136, front squatted 200kg, back squatted 250kg and deadlifted 250kg. And I'm self-coached.

[madaozeki]

While in my 40's (yep I'm a little older than most of you), weighing 102kg, I snatched 122.5 from hang, C+J 150, benched 150, close grip benched 136, front squatted 200kg, back squatted 250kg and deadlifted 250kg. And I'm self-coached.

Now that there's some well-rounded strength and power!

[gbg]

While in my 40's (yep I'm a little older than most of you), weighing 102kg, I snatched 122.5 from hang, C+J 150, benched 150, close grip benched 136, front squatted 200kg, back squatted 250kg and deadlifted 250kg. And I'm self-coached.

Over 40 club.

[olyw8lifter]

Over 40 club.

You know it!!! Wait, I'm not 40 yet....in a couple more years.

[Marc27Default]

i've been training oly for less than a year, shoot me
ive snatched 110 and cj 130 with a BS a hair above 150
lately my strength has severely diminished (BS 315lbs yesterday... and it was hard) but since my technique has improved im still doing the same lifts. theres a good testament to technique vs. raw strength

Why is you back squat low in relation to the classic lifts, just really good technique? I have really long legs which gives me a huge rom and a tough sticking point. It takes me forever to add strength to the squat, I've always had problems with squatting. Any advice on how someone like that might best progress on the classic lifts?

[ulfhednar]

replying to the TS

Weight lifters like Taranenko could front squat 300kg ass to grass, and back squat even more, with 3 seconds pause at the bottom point... Good example is strongman Michail Koklyaev, who is also an olympic weight lifter. Now..i doubt a power lifter can do this without proper training spesificly for this squat. And the weight these guys can clean and jerk are just unreal. Olympic lifting is strength + power combined with flawless technique, thats what makes them true athletes.


Powerlifting is something that anyone can try and do thats why there are way more powerlifters than oly lifters, and that is why power lifting will never be an olympic sport... Now i am not an oly lifter I just like to do clean and press and olympic squats as they make you stronger than parallel squats. Konstantin Konstantinovs does olympic squats , he says it helps him improve his deadlifts way better than parralel powerlifting squats.