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  1. #31
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    No reason why it wouldn't be. Breastfed babies are naturally on keto diets, children with epilepsy are put on very strict keto diets. And a 17 year old may not be able to vote, but is not a child.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  2. #32
    Registered User rcb0424's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    No reason why it wouldn't be. Breastfed babies are naturally on keto diets, children with epilepsy are put on very strict keto diets. And a 17 year old may not be able to vote, but is not a child.
    Eileen, I've been reading so much stuff you've said and you have been a great help to me.

    I have 1 question. I have tried to follow your post work out shake method.

    I bought this stuff called Perfect Carb that is 30 grams of carbs to mix with my 30 grams of protein. Its ingrediants are waxy maize, maldextrin, and pure dextrose.

    I cut the serving of 30 grams basically in half or to a third to make it between 10 and 15 grams of carb total.

    It this is a good carb to mix with my PWO shake?

    If you go to amazon you can find the exact product by searching "perfect carb"

    Thanks for the help.
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  3. #33
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    If you get the amount right, it should be fine. Dextrose and maldextrin are both high GI carbs that are fine in PWO shakes. I've never used WMS, but it's certainly worth a try.

    Mind you, you are probably paying over the odds. Pure dextrose is so cheap to buy you'd wonder why anyone ever looks at anything else. It's sold in stores and pharamacies and health food shops as glucose.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  4. #34
    Registered User rcb0424's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    If you get the amount right, it should be fine. Dextrose and maldextrin are both high GI carbs that are fine in PWO shakes. I've never used WMS, but it's certainly worth a try.

    Mind you, you are probably paying over the odds. Pure dextrose is so cheap to buy you'd wonder why anyone ever looks at anything else. It's sold in stores and pharamacies and health food shops as glucose.
    Well the Perfect Carb was 20 bucks including shipping, and using 10 g servings of it for post work out shakes will make it last prob for a year. So it wasnt to expensive.

    I went into several stores looking for dextrose but never could find it. I guess I never looked for just glucose. I found an artifical sweetner that had maldextrin but also had aspartame which concerned me. Well I guess I'm set now.

    Do you recommend 10g or 15g with the PWO?
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  5. #35
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    I'd go for 10g for normal days, 15g for back or leg day. But find what works for you. It's not a big deal either way.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  6. #36
    Registered User tuffnut's Avatar
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    How much training should I do on keto?
    what should a depletion workout look like?
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  7. #37
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    Train as normal.

    A depletion workout is a whole body workout, using compound lifts (squat, deads, bench, etc) where you lift until you have to drop the weights by about 50% to continue. Do another circuit, then start your carb-up.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  8. #38
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tuffnut View Post
    so is that high reps?
    Higher than normal training. Go for maybe 12 reps per set instead of 8. The object is to use up all glycogen rather than to lift to failure. Of course, it's a great opportunity to give an extra blast to any muscles that got missed out during the week.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  9. #39
    Registered User tuffnut's Avatar
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    Thanks!!!
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  10. #40
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    Tomato, milk and alcohol.

    Started Keto yesterday and I'm not sure if tomato and milk are ok for Keto?
    Also, I think alcohol is not that good for Keto but thought maybe you guys have some ideas of what to order when I'm out and don't wanna drink water all night? I guess beer and sweet tasting drinks are a big no. What would be good? A dry martini?
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  11. #41
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Polcan View Post
    Started Keto yesterday and I'm not sure if tomato and milk are ok for Keto?
    Also, I think alcohol is not that good for Keto but thought maybe you guys have some ideas of what to order when I'm out and don't wanna drink water all night? I guess beer and sweet tasting drinks are a big no. What would be good? A dry martini?
    No, not good. A small amount may be acceptable, but you'd better count every last carb.

    Alcohol is not good on keto. You can have some on carb-up, but you'll get drunk quicker and feel worse afterwards. What's wrong with sparkling water, maybe with a twist of lemon or lime? Be the designated driver and everyone will love you. If you must drink, and you don't fancy a small red wine, then non-sweet spirits like whiskey or vodka with mineral water or ice is your best bet. Diet sodas tend to make the alcohol hit you harder.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  12. #42
    Registered User Polcan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    No, not good. A small amount may be acceptable, but you'd better count every last carb.

    Alcohol is not good on keto. You can have some on carb-up, but you'll get drunk quicker and feel worse afterwards. What's wrong with sparkling water, maybe with a twist of lemon or lime? Be the designated driver and everyone will love you. If you must drink, and you don't fancy a small red wine, then non-sweet spirits like whiskey or vodka with mineral water or ice is your best bet. Diet sodas tend to make the alcohol hit you harder.
    Thanks for the answer!
    I've got one more question though. I just looked milk and tomato up on wiki and it says that there's about 4 grams of carbs per 100 grams. It means less than 5% while I should be consuming 5% of carbs - why would I then need to keep it a small amount?

    As of alcohol, well, a good university student can miss a lecture but not a pub night I'll try to limit it and stick to red wine and an occasional whiskey.
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  13. #43
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    Because 100ml of milk is a tiny amount. A standard glass is usually close to 300ml, and BBers usually go for BIG glasses. If it's just a splash of milk in coffee, then fine. If it's on cereal or in a shake, chances are you are eating too much of it.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  14. #44
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    Absolutely blown away by your knowledge on this stuff... unbelievable... so i guess its my turn for a question... or moreso a confimration if i got my facts right.

    1. 65% fat, 30% protein, 5% Carbs
    2. 2 Weeks on Keto Diet, then Carb-up.
    3. Carb-up consists of 24 hours of 70% carbs, 15% fat, 15% protein, then 24 hours of 60% carbs, 25% protein, 15% fat.
    4. Back into Ketosis for another 2 weeks.

    Regarding the Post workout shake, will those stats count towards the days total?( calories, protein, fats, etc.)

    And Should the depletion workout take place during the second 24 hours of carb up? (should there be a workout on initial day of carb up? If so depletion or regular)
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  15. #45
    "come on man" BNR's Avatar
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    ^ after your first 2 weeks of keto you would recarb weekly. I don't take pwo carbs which I probably will start to incorporate 10g of dextrose but from what I've seen, members count everything except for the carb intake
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  16. #46
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nphelan View Post

    1. 65% fat, 30% protein, 5% Carbs
    2. 2 Weeks on Keto Diet, then Carb-up.
    3. Carb-up consists of 24 hours of 70% carbs, 15% fat, 15% protein, then 24 hours of 60% carbs, 25% protein, 15% fat.
    4. Back into Ketosis for another 2 weeks.

    Regarding the Post workout shake, will those stats count towards the days total?( calories, protein, fats, etc.)

    And Should the depletion workout take place during the second 24 hours of carb up? (should there be a workout on initial day of carb up? If so depletion or regular)
    1. Yes.
    2. Yes.
    3. Almost. Carb-up length depends on goals,. so 12 hours or less for max fat loss, 36 hours or more for max muscle gain. Reverse the macros, so 30% protein, 5% fat and 65% carbs. It's not essential you hit those numbers, but it gives you something to aim at. Keep calories within shouting distance of your real maintenance. If your maintenance is 2000 cals, then carb-up at 2500-3000 cals, not 5000 or more.
    4. After your first carb-up, repeat as often as necessary. If you are lifting very intensely, you'll need to carb-up more than someone who doesn't work as hard in the gym.

    PWO shakes count towards calores, and protein, but if you keep the amount small, you can ignore the carbs in the dextrose.

    The depletion workout is the start of the carb-up. If you can't do one for some reason, keep your carb-up very small.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  17. #47
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    Signs of Keto?

    Hello everyone,
    another question from this Keto newbie
    So, I started Keto last weekend, check sticks several times a day My problem is, the sticks changed the colour (one shade a day, from negative to moderate today) but I don't 'feel' any signs of Keto! Didn't notice any bad smells, or anything else. I'm worried about this because I read on this board that sticks are not always right. So, am I in Ketosis or not? And what are the other signs by which you guys recognize you're in Keto?
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  18. #48
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    Originally Posted by Polcan View Post
    Hello everyone,
    another question from this Keto newbie
    So, I started Keto last weekend, check sticks several times a day My problem is, the sticks changed the colour (one shade a day, from negative to moderate today) but I don't 'feel' any signs of Keto! Didn't notice any bad smells, or anything else. I'm worried about this because I read on this board that sticks are not always right. So, am I in Ketosis or not? And what are the other signs by which you guys recognize you're in Keto?
    As long as you have any shade of pink, you are in ketosis. Don't worry about the colour. It's possible to get a false negative on ketostix, so you can be in ketosis and not register, but you don't get false positives. If you can get a colour change, you are in ketosis.

    Some of the signs of ketosis are more subtle than others. For me, it's doing non-essential housework, like hoovering. Or being able to finish crosswords, or do percentages in my head. I tend to read novels when I'm on carb-up, textbooks in ketosis.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  19. #49
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    Well, I always make a point of being in ketosis if I have a study day or exam coming up. That way, I can stay alert for the whole thing. If I eat carbs, sitting in a warm room tends to make me sleepy.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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    I have recently started my keto diet (1800 cal 64%/5%/31%) but I am having trouble with my PWO.

    I have vanilla flavored ON whey I mix with some cold water and ice cubes (in blender), but it becomes kind of bubbly (near the top) and I have a hard time downing it lol. Maybe I just need to man up, but do you have any suggestions for PWO or improvements to this water/whey ? :] thx
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  21. #51
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    Sounds pretty normal. Try to pretend it's a milk shake, and knock it back.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

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  22. #52
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    Originally Posted by Polcan View Post
    Are you being serious about elevated mental abilities? Never heard of this! That would be awesome since I'm behind with all my courses' readings!
    Personally, I find that while I'm in Keto....like right now.....I feel like I can think more clearly. It feels like the fog has lifted. It's funny really, because I didn't ever realize that my brain was being stifled by any kind of "fog" until I went in and out of Keto a couple of times.

    it's very liberating. It's like the physical/mental manifestation of freeing yourself from carbohydrate addiction. :-)
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  23. #53
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    can someone clarify this for me?

    so i get the 30p 5c 65f macro, and then reverse for carb up day.

    but what does and doesn't count for carbs? do the few carbs in nuts count? also i take a preworkout drink consisting of 8 carbs should i just stick with a caffeine pill instead?

    then with the whole fibrous carbs don't count thing, lets say i pig out with 4 cups of brussellsprouts i wouldn't count that as any carbs?


    also eileen said carbing up for 12 hours or less for max fat loss is the way to go, could someone give me an example of a meal plan to follow during this? something extremely healthy for maximum fat loss? and if it were for 12 hours and you're awake for 15 hours, would your last meal(assuming you carbed up during the first 12 hours) be the regular high fat low-med protein next to no carbs again? or wait til the next day when you wake up. Thanks for the help!!
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  24. #54
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    Please read the stickes, it's all in there.

    All carbs count except fiber and a very small amount of dextrose post workout. Including carbs in nuts and veg.

    Don't do post workout drinks. Eat your normal keto meal a couple of hours beforehand and you should be fine. Have an expresso if you like.

    You start your carb-up with a depletion workout, so if you get up, do your depletion, you'll only have 12 hours or so to eat before bedtime. If you finish early, have a very small protein snack before bed, but don't go back to keto until the next day.

    There is a page here on this thread about good carb-up meals.
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

    http://www.eileengormley.com/ Funny science fiction for bodybuilders
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  25. #55
    Registered User ankgorstout's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Base a keto diet on whole eggs, oily fish, fresh meat, chicken and turkey, lots and lots and LOTS of green vegetables, extra virgin olive oil, cheese, butter, cream, nuts and seeds.

    Take a whey shake after lifting, real food the rest of the time.

    Avoid processed foods, trans fats, any form of sugar, grains milk, fruit, or anything labeled "low carb" or worse "net carb".

    On carb-up, eat root veg, beans, pulses, fruit, oatmeal, low fat dairy, wholegrains, unrefined cereals. Avoid junk food, and avoid or limit sugar or white flour. Have one high gi meal after your PWO shake, and stick to lower gi whole foods the rest of the time.

    Good carb-up foods are oatmeal served hot, or oats soaked in skim milk till soft.
    Baked potatoes with baked beans.
    Sweet potato and chicken breast.
    Tuna and brown rice and salsa.
    Stirfry with rice noodles, tomato and shrimp.
    Seafood chowder with skim milk, onion, sweetcorn and white fish.
    Lentil and carrot soup, or minestrone soup, served with rye crackers.
    Irish stew (lean beef, potato, carrots, onion, stock)
    Rice pudding.
    Skinny cappuccino and pumpernickel bagel.
    Muesli and skim milk.
    Wholegrain bread and fat free cream cheese.
    RedHeadLaw7 and Eileen - Thank you this has been informative.

    Eileen - I have a question for you.

    You mentioned avoiding processed foods and trans fat. Does this apply to saturated fats as well? I recently added sausages to my diet because I have the issue of not eating enough fats. Should I cut out the sausages since they are processed? How can I go about getting more fats?

    On other days I eat salmon...but that can get pretty expensive.

    I'm 6' 1"; 185.2 lbs this morning. I estimate maybe 15% BF.

    Here's my sample diet:

    1: 5 whole eggs
    2: 48g WPI and 1 tbsp PB
    3. 8 Oz Chicken Breast with hot sauce, 1 Oz Pepper Jack Cheese
    4. 24g WPI and 1 tbsp PB
    5. Sausages - 2 Links (19g fat, 8g Saturated in each)
    6. 23g WPI and PB

    Total: Calories: 1840; Fat - 101g (37.25 Saturated Fat); Carbs: 20.5; Protein: 204.5
    supplements: Multi-Vitamin, and M5 Kre-Alkalyn 30 mins Pre-Workout
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  26. #56
    Cailin Deas Eileen's Avatar
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    This really should be in keto diet samples, not here, but anyway.

    Your protein is too high, fat is too low. Drop the protein except for one scoop after lifting.

    Sausages are not good. They are processed, and often full of junk carbs like rusk and sugar and other stuff. Saturated fat is fine, but sausages contain all sorts of unknown ingredients, unless you are lucky enough to have a butcher who will make them up in front of you.

    There are other fish besides salmon. Sardines are cheaper. Look for trout and mackerel as well.

    Try eating some steak in your keto diet. Rib steak is high fat, and cheap and juicy. Chicken thighs are cheaper than breasts and give more fat.

    Where's the veg?
    65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs = keto.

    http://www.eileengormley.com/ Funny science fiction for bodybuilders
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  27. #57
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    This really should be in keto diet samples, not here, but anyway.

    Your protein is too high, fat is too low. Drop the protein except for one scoop after lifting.

    Sausages are not good. They are processed, and often full of junk carbs like rusk and sugar and other stuff. Saturated fat is fine, but sausages contain all sorts of unknown ingredients, unless you are lucky enough to have a butcher who will make them up in front of you.

    There are other fish besides salmon. Sardines are cheaper. Look for trout and mackerel as well.

    Try eating some steak in your keto diet. Rib steak is high fat, and cheap and juicy. Chicken thighs are cheaper than breasts and give more fat.

    Where's the veg?
    Thanks for the quick reply.
    I just discovered the keto diet sample thread...will be looking through for some ideas.
    The sausages only have 1g of carb...but I will drop them anyway due to the unknown junk.

    I'll be looking to buy some of the other fish you mentioned as well as steaks for some variation. Maybe I'll get some beef ribs or pork and bacon...to try to increase my fat intake.

    I just decided to switch to keto to try to cut more, but I guess I'm a little stuck in the low-fat/healthy eating mindset. As for veggies, I haven't eaten much really...since I don't want the carbs to exceed 20g. I've had some broccoli, watercress, and snap peas (which I think are not so great due to its higher sugar content), but I'll use the sample diet thread to research more veggies too.

    The protein I take is ON 100% Whey, which has 3g of carbs per scoop. I'll lower that a bit and have more veggies. The other WPI I take is Nectar which doesn't have any carbs.

    Also, my aim for protein intake is actually 170g...I happened to be over that yesterday b/c my workout was intense and I'm hoping not to lose any muscle. I'll try just one scoop pwo, and see if I can still get 170g from other sources.

    Thanks!
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  28. #58
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    Hi,

    New to the forums and still relatively novice in the ways of keto. I'm several weeks in and 10lbs down, but my workouts are suffering so I know there's something I'm not doing right.

    My question: can you provide me with any info on how a blood glucose meter can be used to detect/measure ketosis? Is there an arbitrary number I need to get below, or is it subjective to each individual?
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    Originally Posted by Caldoun View Post
    Hi,

    New to the forums and still relatively novice in the ways of keto. I'm several weeks in and 10lbs down, but my workouts are suffering so I know there's something I'm not doing right.

    My question: can you provide me with any info on how a blood glucose meter can be used to detect/measure ketosis? Is there an arbitrary number I need to get below, or is it subjective to each individual?
    if you want to detect ketosis, go to CVS or another pharmacy and buy ketostix. Ask the pharmacist where they are but they will prob be around the diabetes stuff.

    I got 100 sticks for 10 bucks. You pee on them and they tell you if you are or arent in ketosis.
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  30. #60
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    Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Base a keto diet on whole eggs, oily fish, fresh meat, chicken and turkey, lots and lots and LOTS of green vegetables, extra virgin olive oil, cheese, butter, cream, nuts and seeds.

    Take a whey shake after lifting, real food the rest of the time.

    Avoid processed foods, trans fats, any form of sugar, grains milk, fruit, or anything labeled "low carb" or worse "net carb".

    On carb-up, eat root veg, beans, pulses, fruit, oatmeal, low fat dairy, wholegrains, unrefined cereals. Avoid junk food, and avoid or limit sugar or white flour. Have one high gi meal after your PWO shake, and stick to lower gi whole foods the rest of the time.

    Good carb-up foods are oatmeal served hot, or oats soaked in skim milk till soft.
    Baked potatoes with baked beans.
    Sweet potato and chicken breast.
    Tuna and brown rice and salsa.
    Stirfry with rice noodles, tomato and shrimp.
    Seafood chowder with skim milk, onion, sweetcorn and white fish.
    Lentil and carrot soup, or minestrone soup, served with rye crackers.
    Irish stew (lean beef, potato, carrots, onion, stock)
    Rice pudding.
    Skinny cappuccino and pumpernickel bagel.
    Muesli and skim milk.
    Wholegrain bread and fat free cream cheese.
    so were not allowed have oatmeal on the low carb days,cuz thats wat ive ben taking an hour before working out,is this wrong?
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