I'd like to replace with rows with power cleans since I hate rows and love power cleans. I noticed in SS, the program calls for 5x3 for power clean instead of the 3x5 for all the other lifts. Should I change the 5x5 to 5x3, or keep the number of reps the same, and do 8x3? Also, should I still ramp the weight with power cleans, or so the same weight across all sets?
|
-
10-19-2009, 07:56 AM #1
Substituting power cleans into 5x5
-
10-19-2009, 07:59 AM #2
-
10-19-2009, 10:30 PM #3
-
10-19-2009, 10:39 PM #4
- Join Date: Mar 2009
- Location: Dickson, Tennessee, United States
- Age: 45
- Posts: 505
- Rep Power: 407
They are exactly right, it's an explosive motion so you should do it with the heaviest load you can w/o loosing form (this means no cheating by pulling quickly off the floor).
Rippetoe uses 5x3 because at high weight it is just way to taxing to go 5 reps. But he and Starr differ on how they teach/use the power-clean motion so adapt accordingly (i.e. stay low reps for Ripps technique and go for 5 reps with Stars).
You should note however that a power-clean is NOT an good substitution for rows. While they both are "back" lifts they work the muscles in a VERY different way and train you for different things. Personally I use power-cleans for their explosiveness (important to martial artists) and then I use pull-ups for my "back". For me it's the best blend. Experiment and find what works for you, but IMHO pull-ups are the king of back lifts.You are right to be wary. There is much bull****. Be wary of me too, because I may be wrong. Make up your own mind after you evaluate all the evidence and the logic. - Rippetoe
www.KenZenIchii.com
www.BSRWarriors.com
-
-
10-20-2009, 10:56 AM #5
Well Monday/Friday I do Squat/Bench/Clean and Wednesday I do Squat/Press/Deadlift. That doesn't really leave any room for adding in pull-ups. Madcow's 5x5 program doesn't even include power cleans it just includes rows and it says if you want to substitute power cleans for rows you can. This advice doesn't seem to be adding up.
-
10-20-2009, 11:29 AM #6
- Join Date: Dec 2007
- Location: Michigan, United States
- Age: 50
- Posts: 16,707
- Rep Power: 1129519
I would just ismply sub the cleans in for the rows 5x5 ramping sets same as the other exercises. With the ramping sets and only one at top weight I think you can probably manage to hold form for a simgle set of 5. Rippoetoes would have you doing 15 reps with working weight where Starr would only have you at 5.
If you didn't know Madcow was developed based on this program:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Bill Starrs "Big Three" off season football program[]---[] Equipment Crew Member No. 11
"As iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another" Proverbs 27:17
-
10-20-2009, 11:50 AM #7
- Join Date: Nov 2007
- Location: Brentwood, California, United States
- Age: 34
- Posts: 2,472
- Rep Power: 354
x2. Mac, the original program actually had powercleans in stead of rows, and high pulls in stead of deadlifts; it was a program designed for Olympic lifters. Putting rows in for cleans and deadlifts in for high pulls was a quick and dirty way of completely changing the routine from Olympic based to strength-bodybuilding based.
As far as the set/rep scheme, you can do whatever you'd like. If you would like to focus more on your strength endurance, then you should probably gear more towards 5 reps. If you would like to focus on your functional strength, and ability to withstand heavier weights, then 3 reps would be more ideal. It's really up to you.
-
10-20-2009, 04:38 PM #8
- Join Date: Mar 2009
- Location: Dickson, Tennessee, United States
- Age: 45
- Posts: 505
- Rep Power: 407
And this is really what it comes down to. As I said before experiment and see what works best for you. Bottom line is the same program can have dramatic results for one person and not do squat for another. And both Starr's and Rippetoes programs have undergone numerous evolutions and redesigns over the years. But the basic setup has remained the same and that is the important thing (i.e. Squat, Push, Pull).
Edit:
Also note, neither Starr or Rippetoe use their programs explicitly as they are given for every trainee. These programs are meant as primers, nothing more. While the programs have earn a reputation for success they are not set in stone and should, like ANY program be adjusted as needed. Just adjust smartly (i.e. have a legitimate reason backed by facts not stupid "bro science" or wild guessing).Last edited by kziwarrior; 10-20-2009 at 04:43 PM.
You are right to be wary. There is much bull****. Be wary of me too, because I may be wrong. Make up your own mind after you evaluate all the evidence and the logic. - Rippetoe
www.KenZenIchii.com
www.BSRWarriors.com
Similar Threads
-
Incorporating power cleans into 5x5
By mac520 in forum Workout ProgramsReplies: 9Last Post: 12-27-2009, 05:12 PM -
where to incorparate power cleans into my workout
By paki123 in forum Teen BodybuildingReplies: 1Last Post: 07-01-2009, 04:16 PM -
Substituting Power Cleans/squat cleans in ws4sb3
By RandallH19891 in forum Workout ProgramsReplies: 1Last Post: 01-04-2009, 10:02 AM -
Power Cleans in 5x5
By mks in forum Workout ProgramsReplies: 6Last Post: 01-16-2007, 10:37 AM
Bookmarks