Lose fat and gain muscle virgin

[rps1969]

In an attempt to get things right from the start i see little point in starting something without gaining correct information from the outset from people that live and breath the life style. So armed with my 280lb body mass, 40" waist line and topping 6'3" tall im in for a tought year to start.

My aim is to get the nutritional part right and this is what I will probably find the hardest to fully understand as it?s not as simple as following a weightwatchers plan if u get where I?m coming from. Once the diet is nailed, I believe I?m 70% on the right path.

Aiming to keep as much muscle as possible whilst losing fat, a diet that will counter being strong and heavy in favour shape. I am pretty determined to lose fat and gain muscle though not actually look like a ripped bodybuilder. I am planning to get weighed weekly aiming for 1-2lb loss a week.

With regards supplements I have been pointed to Myprotein.co.uk paying particular attention to Total Protein, Impact whey isolate, Glutamine and Creatine, Waxy Maize Starch with the addition of the am/pm formula multi vitamin/mineral called Total Performance. The MP Max range of meal replacements also looks ok but no nothing about them.It has been suggested that reducing carbs on none training days may help tighten up the stomach. Unsure if this is right though.

All I need to do now is for someone to show how it?s all put together, simple if you know what you?re doing I suppose?

Below is a suggested diet, if it stacks up then I?m set to go, well apart from buying it in. What do you think or would change.

Training Day

9.30am

- Glutamine 5mg and 30 mins cardio

Breakfast 10.30am

- 100g oats
- 200g skimmed milk
- Total Protein
- 40g Raisins
- 1 teaspoon olive oil

12.30am

- 4 Oatcakes
- 3 Scrambled eggs (1 Whole)
- Chicken Breast
- 1/2 Jacket Potato
- 1 teaspoon flora oil
- Mutli Vitamin HMB Amino Acid Vit C Glucosamine Sulphate

4.30pm
- Rice 50g
- 1 Tin Mackerel
- Whey Protein

Tea
- Same as 12.30

Post training drink
- Protein drink
- Carb drink
- HMB Glutamine 10mg
- BCAA

10.30pm
- 300g cottage cheese
- HMB Glutamine 5mg
- Milk Thistle

Non training day

Breakfast 9am
- 100g oats
- 200g skimmed milk
- Total Protein
- 20g Raisins
- 1 teaspoon olive oil
- Glutamine 5mg

11am
- 2 Oatcakes
- 3 Scrambled eggs (1 Whole)

12.30 pm
- Chicken Breast
- 1/2 Jacket Potato
- 1 teapoon flora oil
- Mutli Vitamin HMB
- Vit C Glucosamine Sulphate

4pm
- 1 Tin Mackerel
- Whey Protein
- 2 Oatcakes

Tea
- Same as 12.30
- HMB Glutamine 10mg
- BCAA

7.00pm
- Total Protein

10.30pm
- 300g cottage
- Milk Thistle

Its also been suggested to me something about monitoring my heart rate at rest. Have no idea what this entails but may find out in time if it help.

So here goes, the new me... Hopefully.

[Wayne Evans]

Howdy.....welcome.

First, I would suggest reading some of the *stickies* on the OV35 homepage.
Losing fat and building/keeping optimum muscle is a very tricky equation.
I'm not saying it can't be done.
If it were me I would concentrate on the diet aspects to lose the excess.
But...there are many here that can specify further.

I also recommend doing all the reading you can and there's a boatload of pros here that can help you refine your *path*.

Some *reps* for you as you get started.

Good luck....

[peter03]

here is a little advise. Dont go cold turkey, try to start slow. I have lost a lot of weight and I have managed to keep it off for a year now. The trick is not to make it sound and feel like a torture.

Start by just eating right, cut out junk food for first month then every month take another step. If you take it too seriously you will hate it and soon you will go back to your oldself.

[Most Muscular]

here is a little advise. Dont go cold turkey, try to start slow. I have lost a lot of weight and I have managed to keep it off for a year now. The trick is not to make it sound and feel like a torture.

Start by just eating right, cut out junk food for first month then every month take another step. If you take it too seriously you will hate it and soon you will go back to your oldself.

Peter03 is correct... take it slow... and let your new diet become your lifestyle if you want to keep the excess weight off.

This doesn't mean you can never eat some pizza, etc. you just can't do it as often. Being held to a very strict diet many people will at times find that they splurge uncontrolalbly when given the opportunity so therefore I believe it's good to have a cheat meal once in awhile when you've nailed down your new lifestyle diet.

Trying to lose bodyfat and gain muscle mass is very difficult. About the only time it can be successfully accomplished is when you're just starting out to weight training because your muscles are more subject to growth during this break-in period and can accomplish that task, even on a restricted diet it seems.

A plan you may want to consider is a zig zag diet consisting of a (clean) bulk and then a period of restricted calories. You may also find, like I have found myself, that I carbs tend to make me gain bodyfat easily and I can get leaner using a low carb diet which is high in protein to help build, or at least, maintain my muscle mass.

Good luck on your journey.

nuff said...

[rps1969]

Thank you all for your own input and i will take the advice offered seriously indeed.So i take something from it, getting my diet nailed, I believe I?m 70% on the right path. So ina week ill be on the right path hopefully, though i still have a lot of reading to do.

Wish me luck...

[kittyboy]

Welcome! I'm glad to see you're focusing on diet first; how you eat is the most important factor in your fat loss/muscle building success. It's also refreshing that you express a willingness to read; there's tons of good info on this site, especially in the "Sticky" threads.

I don't want to critique your diet too heavily; the details are less important than overall macros - calories, protein, carbs, fats. Obviously, you should get your calories from lean protein, complex carbs and healthy fats.

There's one glaring omission in your diet plan, though - vegetables and fruits. These are vitamin and fiber powerhouses that you ought not neglect, and they'll help fill your stomach as well. I eat lots of broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, spinach and carrots. I eat fruits in moderation (due to their high sugar content), with pineapple, oranges, grapefruit and fresh berries as my favorites. Dried fruits such as raisins are very calorie dense, so I avoid these while I'm trying to shed fat. Sweet potatoes are an excellent complex carb choice, as they're loaded with vitamins A and C.

I'd wish you luck, but it really comes down to choice.

[gbg]

Personally I have gained the most muscle on CKD the fat loss process is very slow when gaining LBM at the same time and you have to work your ass off in the gym because of limited carbs which will be tough the 1st couple of weeks but you adjust.
I have tried many diets and have always lost to much LBM now I'm gaining it while slowly loosing BF.

[hochspeyer]

Welcome! I'm glad to see you're focusing on diet first; how you eat is the most important factor in your fat loss/muscle building success. It's also refreshing that you express a willingness to read; there's tons of good info on this site, especially in the "Sticky" threads.

I don't want to critique your diet too heavily; the details are less important than overall macros - calories, protein, carbs, fats. Obviously, you should get your calories from lean protein, complex carbs and healthy fats.

There's one glaring omission in your diet plan, though - vegetables and fruits. These are vitamin and fiber powerhouses that you ought not neglect, and they'll help fill your stomach as well. I eat lots of broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, spinach and carrots. I eat fruits in moderation (due to their high sugar content), with pineapple, oranges, grapefruit and fresh berries as my favorites. Dried fruits such as raisins are very calorie dense, so I avoid these while I'm trying to shed fat. Sweet potatoes are an excellent complex carb choice, as they're loaded with vitamins A and C.

I'd wish you luck, but it really comes down to choice.

Welcome! I would like to suggest there are actually TWO omissions in your diet:

Buttloads of water (my opinion)

[Todd_A]

In my opinion, at 280 pounds, and starting out fresh, you will have great results just by doing something. You have already taken the first step, and a rather good one by directing your attention to nutrition/diet. Many people claim that diet/nutrition is about 80% of the equation because it allows the workouts to actually be channeled toward your goals more effectively, and can mean the difference between loosing fat or loosing muscle, or gaining, or whatever you intend to do. When you get a firm control over your nutrition, the rest will seem more downhill.

Lifting weights and doing cardio take such a small amount of you time in comparison to your daily life. If you average about 1.5 hours a day working out, then you still have 22.5 hours a day left. What can you do during that time? Nutrition and rest!

One thing to think about is do not try and loose the fat by only doing cardio that will get rid of some but it won't get you the body you are really looking for. You should concentrate more on lifting and building some muscle especially at the onset of this because the more muscle you have, the more fat you will burn even while you are sleeping! That's right, muscle takes more calories to support than fat.

I would still suggest a deficit of calories daily in order to loose the fat, but you r body should have plenty of stored energy to draw from with the fat you have already, so I would not worry about eating at a maintenance level at this point. But if you can find your maintenance level of calories, and then reduce that by 500 or maybe a little more daily, then you should see some good results. As you get closer to a low body fat % then you would want to stay closer to your maintenance level so you don't sacrifice lean mass. But right now, I think you would be fine working at a bit more of a reduction.

Also, if you have not yet started lifting, begin slowly. If you jump in with too much weight and too much of a big workout the first weeks, you will get extremely sore and that might discourage you from continuing. You will get soreness at first, but it will not be that way after every workout once you have been lifting for a little while.

There are tons and tons of articles and opinions out here on how to do everything from when to eat what kinds of macro nutrients (protein, carbs, fats) to how to do each individual exercise, to how to perform cardio effectively (I personally like LISS for fat loss without muscle loss).

Read and ask questions. That is the best advice anyone can give you here. Educate yourself more on all this. It will pay off for the rest of your life!

[Todd_A]

Also, I wanted to add one more thing. Since you are at 280 and have not been exercising, there might be reason to believe you could have possibilities of Cardiovascular problems. Not trying to scare you or anything, just be aware of it and I would suggest a trip to the Doctor for a clean bill of health regarding getting into an exercise program.

But my point would be for you to work your way into some actual cardio work - jogging and such to bring your heart rate up to levels where you are actually working out your heart to make it stronger. Not at first thought, I wouldn't think. Ask the Doc.

The things you do during this will make you much healthier, but I"ve heard loosing fat too fast can be problematic, and you might have cholesterol numbers to be looking at and other things to look into also like blood sugar levels which should become mroe positive with the nutrition part somewhat quickly.

[rps1969]

Welcome! I would like to suggest there are actually TWO omissions in your diet:

Buttloads of water (my opinion)

Yes noted, i will include about 2 litres of CRUSHED ice water per day. Thanks for the head up.

[rps1969]

Todd_A thanks for your input also.

I have tried to put together a training routine, which is scary if you dont know what your doing(like me). Below is what i have put together so far with the help of this site.

Monday: Cardio (Morning) - Legs, calves (evening)

Quads:

Leg extension (about 25 reps)
Seated or lying leg press (about 25 reps)
Lunges (about 15-20 steps per foot)
Regular / hack squat (about 20 reps)
Abductor & adductor (about 25 reps)

Hamstrings:

Seated leg curl (about 20 reps)
Standing 1 leg leg curl (about 20 reps)
Lying leg curls (about 20 reps)
Romanian deadlift (about 20 reps)

Calves:

Seated or standing calf raises (about 25 reps)


Tuesday - Cardio (Morning) Evening Off


Wednesday: Cardio (Morning) - back and biceps (evening)

Back:

Wide grip lateral pull down behind the neck (about 15 reps)
Wide or narrow grip front lateral pull down (about 15 reps)
Machine row (about 15-20 reps)
Dumbbell row (about 15 reps per side)
Wide grip pull ups (about 15 reps)

Biceps:

EZ-Bar curls (about 12-15 reps)
Concentration curl (about 12-15 reps)
Preacher curl (about 12-15 reps)
Machine bicep curl (about 12-15 reps)
Alternate dumbbell curl (about 12-15 reps)
Rope curl (about 12-15 reps)
T-bar curl (about 12-15 reps)

Abs:

Stability ball (holding a weight) (about 20-25 reps)
Rope crunch (about 20-25 reps)
Hanging leg raise (about 15 reps)
Machine crunches for upper abs or preferably lower & upper abs (about 20-25 reps)

Thursday ? Shoulders (evening)

Dumbbell or barbell military press (about 15 reps)
Front lateral raises (about 15-20 reps)
Side lateral raises (about 15-20 reps)
Narrow or regular grip machine shoulder press (about 15 reps)
Seated bent over rear delt dumbbell flyes (about 20 reps)
Rear delt machine (about 20 reps)


Friday: Cardio (Morning) -chest triceps (evening)

Chest:
Incline or straight dumbbell fly (about 15 reps)
Incline or straight dumbbell chest press (about 15 reps)
Machine chest press (about 15 reps)
Incline or straight bench press (about 15-20 reps)
Pullover (about 15 reps)
Cable cross (about 20-25 reps)
Decline push ups (about 20-25 reps)

Triceps:

V-bar or rope press down (about 15 reps)
(One arm) triceps extension (about 15 reps per arm)
Machine triceps dip (about 15 reps)

[metropolitan]

i highly recommend these two books that cover similar ideas and approaches to losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time.
Men's Health TNT Diet
and
Maximum Muscle, Minimum Fat: The Secret Science Behind Physical Transformation by Ori Hofmeker.

the TNT diet is easier to read and talks more in regular day to day language and MMMF one goes much deeper into the science of it. they both complement each other well and are worth reading together.
the basic idea for both is diet and exercise (of course), but the goal of simutaneously losing fat and gaining muscle is actually not exactly simuntaneous. it's more you have days of building muscle and days of losing fat and you do this by regulating your eating along with your exercise. both deal a lot with timing. when to eat protein, when to eat carbs, when to eat fat, all in relation to your workout days.
what's interesting also about them is that they're not "diets" as in regular diet books. while they do recommend "dont eat this thing, eat that thing" it's more teaching when and how to eat and how food gets made into muscle and fat.

worth reading. it will help you out more than just workout routines for your goals.

[rps1969]

Fortuanly for me I have a friend called Duane Creese who some of you may have heard of. Spoke with him today for his advice. Not really the way i wanted to go as he is busy with the UKBFF BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIPS next week and i would have loved to do it myself, though im finding it problomatic.

Yes the reading is great and i get the general diet plan kinda sorted, that is till i read the next article..

[rps1969]

HI

Can someone suggest if my diet is ok for both fat loss and muscle mass. Cardio will be in the morning about 0900 & something like

15mins cross trainer fat burning level 9
2000m on rowing machine 11mins
5min cool down running machine

[SR800]

I might offer another opinion. Eat frequently and from a broad range of sources, first you must find you caloric requirements and then make adjustments from there. Split up the total calories and consume in equal parts 6 times per day, more carbs early less carbs late, less fat early more fat late. This makes sticking to your eating plan much easier and increases your metabolism.

Next for weight training keep it simple. Begin with a full body 3 xs per week routine that consists of squats, deads, bench, rows, and military press. That basically hits all he major muscles. Start slow, be careful, learn correct form, and build from these basics.


Congratulations on your desire, you WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!

[paulb72]

In my opinion, at 280 pounds, and starting out fresh, you will have great results just by doing something. You have already taken the first step, and a rather good one by directing your attention to nutrition/diet. Many people claim that diet/nutrition is about 80% of the equation because it allows the workouts to actually be channeled toward your goals more effectively, and can mean the difference between loosing fat or loosing muscle, or gaining, or whatever you intend to do. When you get a firm control over your nutrition, the rest will seem more downhill.

Lifting weights and doing cardio take such a small amount of you time in comparison to your daily life. If you average about 1.5 hours a day working out, then you still have 22.5 hours a day left. What can you do during that time? Nutrition and rest!

One thing to think about is do not try and loose the fat by only doing cardio that will get rid of some but it won't get you the body you are really looking for. You should concentrate more on lifting and building some muscle especially at the onset of this because the more muscle you have, the more fat you will burn even while you are sleeping! That's right, muscle takes more calories to support than fat.

I would still suggest a deficit of calories daily in order to loose the fat, but you r body should have plenty of stored energy to draw from with the fat you have already, so I would not worry about eating at a maintenance level at this point. But if you can find your maintenance level of calories, and then reduce that by 500 or maybe a little more daily, then you should see some good results. As you get closer to a low body fat % then you would want to stay closer to your maintenance level so you don't sacrifice lean mass. But right now, I think you would be fine working at a bit more of a reduction.

Also, if you have not yet started lifting, begin slowly. If you jump in with too much weight and too much of a big workout the first weeks, you will get extremely sore and that might discourage you from continuing. You will get soreness at first, but it will not be that way after every workout once you have been lifting for a little while.

There are tons and tons of articles and opinions out here on how to do everything from when to eat what kinds of macro nutrients (protein, carbs, fats) to how to do each individual exercise, to how to perform cardio effectively (I personally like LISS for fat loss without muscle loss).

Read and ask questions. That is the best advice anyone can give you here. Educate yourself more on all this. It will pay off for the rest of your life!

Also, I wanted to add one more thing. Since you are at 280 and have not been exercising, there might be reason to believe you could have possibilities of Cardiovascular problems. Not trying to scare you or anything, just be aware of it and I would suggest a trip to the Doctor for a clean bill of health regarding getting into an exercise program.

But my point would be for you to work your way into some actual cardio work - jogging and such to bring your heart rate up to levels where you are actually working out your heart to make it stronger. Not at first thought, I wouldn't think. Ask the Doc.

The things you do during this will make you much healthier, but I"ve heard loosing fat too fast can be problematic, and you might have cholesterol numbers to be looking at and other things to look into also like blood sugar levels which should become mroe positive with the nutrition part somewhat quickly.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^Some real good points here^^^^^^^^^^^

[hodgempls]

I would suggest Rippetoes starting strength program. Easy to follow, simple to do, and highly effective. I have been on it for 2 months and dropped about 12 lbs. My lifts have gone up and I have noticed a significant improvement in my body. I am eating about 500 calories below maintenance and throwing in 4 days of rowing on my concept 2 for cardio.

[SR800]

A good application of my thoughts

[tenreps]

CONGRADULATION,S on starting, and yes in my opinion you are on the right path, in that you understand DIET is at least 70% or more of your exercise plan. AS far as burning fat and building muscle at the same time, i am not to sure because to lose weight you must be in a calorie deficit, but then there are people who would not agree, it just never worked for me, i would keep reading it may work for you.=======YOU CAN,T OUT TRAIN BAD NUTRITION !

[rps1969]

Thanks guy and im still reading

[ejthomp]

Thanks guy and im still reading

So are you still reading or are you working?

The journey starts in the kitchen and the gym, not the computer.

[rps1969]

So are you still reading or are you working?

The journey starts in the kitchen and the gym, not the computer.

Well after a family crises that should have seen me start today i have had to postpone it until next monday, then im off to my new life, oh what a joy i bet it has install for me...

[ejthomp]

Well after a family crises that should have seen me start today i have had to postpone it until next monday, then im off to my new life, oh what a joy i bet it has install for me...

What do you have against, This afternoon, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday? If you can't start today, how are you going to stick to it every time something comes up? Something ALWAYS comes up. This has to be more of a priority than anything else.

(Just trying to push your buttons....)

I have an unemployed friend (divorced, son away in college) that recently asked me for help. We sat down and went over a diet and an exercise plan a couple weeks ago. Talked to him yesterday and he has been TOO BUSY to get the exercises in and unable to lose any weight..... While at the same time, I manage to put in 1-2 hours per day and maintain my diet....

It is all about priorities.... GET SOME!

[rps1969]

ejthomp, concering your comment 'It is all about priorities.... GET SOME!' its not everyday that your child is in hospital and will probally remain there all this week seriously ill.

So for future reference, you may put yourself before your family/children and may sit in the gym happily pumping iron whilst others treat your family members, but dont expect us all to follow your footsteps with comments like that.

I did not ask for your experience relating to your unemployed friend, but then again if you really knew them what the hell was you doing sitting down with them. Probally not a lot as is the case here. So keep your f*****G opinion to yourself or at least enquire before spouting off your big mouth.

It is all about priorities.... MAYBE YOU SHOULD F*****G GET SOME !!

[ejthomp]

Public humiliation accepted and apology given.

[tenreps]

I think what ejthomp was trying to say that there are many people who are going to start tomorrow and never do, and yes you should make exercise a priority, but FAMILY and your kids come first, i think he was just trying to help.====I HOPE YOUR CHILD IS BETTER.