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    Thumbs up Excellent new paper on HYDROLYZED Proteins by Anssi!

    As many of you know, Anssi has written quite a few papers on the benefits of hydrolyzed proteins in sports nutrition over the years. He championed it while writing for MD and he largely influenced the current breed of postWO formula's in the market today.

    Below is his latest paper and a great read for anyone interested in learning the many benefits and unique attributes of hydrolyzed protein. He even went into its use in the INTRA-WORKOUT nutrient timing window.

    http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/6/1/38
    ^^^^^
    Click to the right of the page for the full text PDF.
    Last edited by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION; 09-28-2009 at 08:48 AM.
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    Registered User Adjusting's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Nice.
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    cliffs?
    bmbc
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    Originally Posted by Adjusting View Post
    Nice.
    Probably the most complete, up to date and advanced review paper on hydrolyzed proteins out there.
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    Originally Posted by free agent View Post
    cliffs?
    1. The di-and tripeptides is where the unique benefits of hydrolyzed proteins come from.
    2. There's a large variety of hydrolyzed proteins out there and stating the benefits of a high peptide content hydrolyzed protein across the board for all hydrolyzed proteins is grossly inaccurate.
    3. Di-and tripeptides don't have to undergo digestion and can be absorbed rapidly and even faster than free-form amino-acids.
    4. The are practical sources in times where lack of digestion and digestion time is crucial i.e Intra-Workout.
    5. The cause a larger insulin secretion than intact whey

    Much more but those are some of the key points
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION View Post
    1. The di-and tripeptides is where the unique benefits of hydrolyzed proteins come from.
    2. There's a large variety of hydrolyzed proteins out there and stating the benefits of a high peptide content hydrolyzed protein across the board for all hydrolyzed proteins is grossly inaccurate.
    3. Di-and tripeptides don't have to undergo digestion and can be absorbed rapidly and even faster than free-form amino-acids.
    4. The are practical sources in times where lack of digestion and digestion time is crucial i.e Intra-Workout.
    5. The cause a larger insulin secretion than intact whey

    Much more but those are some of the key points
    What I like especially is that whey hydro helps increase glycogen over regular whey.

    And I quote, "Thus, whey protein hydrolysate appears to enhance the effects of carbohydrate ingestion on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis."
    Last edited by Adjusting; 09-28-2009 at 09:59 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Adjusting View Post
    What I like especially is that whey hydro helps increase glycogen over regular whey.

    And I quote, "Thus, whey protein hydrolysate appears to enhance the effects of carbohydrate ingestion on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis."
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6001131

    This was the first intra-workout article written in MD. I wrote it back in jan 2008. Only one page is shown on the link but there were a couple more to it. Seems like we knew what we were talking about when we said the future and core of intra-workout supplementation was hydrolyzed protein and ffEAAs.
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    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5279143

    Another one I wrote back in 2007.
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    Originally Posted by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION View Post
    2. There's a large variety of hydrolyzed proteins out there and stating the benefits of a high peptide content hydrolyzed protein across the board for all hydrolyzed proteins is grossly inaccurate.
    thx

    did it state anything as to what IS important?
    bmbc
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    Universal. Since 1977. Universal Rep's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by free agent View Post
    thx

    did it state anything as to what IS important?
    A couple things. It's not long and a pretty quick read... For me, confirmed a lot about what I already knew and believed about WPH.
    New & Improved Universal Rep, For Universal
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    Originally Posted by free agent View Post
    thx

    did it state anything as to what IS important?
    Can you be more specific with your question?
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    84oz of hops jamm!n's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Universal Rep View Post
    A couple things. It's not long and a pretty quick read... For me, confirmed a lot about what I already knew and believed about WPH.
    Originally Posted by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION View Post
    Can you be more specific with your question?
    no prob. Im at work so I cant stop and read. I printed it tho and will read it later tonight.

    thanks again for posting this!
    bmbc
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    The cliffs to me are:

    Hydrolyzed protein appears to be quite good but we're still not 100% certain just how good. It might be amazing if done right or it might just be slightly better than non-hydrolyzed. But if you're gonna use it make sure it's high quality.
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    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    The cliffs to me are:

    Hydrolyzed protein appears to be quite good but we're still not 100% certain just how good. It might be amazing if done right or it might just be slightly better than non-hydrolyzed. But if you're gonna use it make sure it's high quality.
    Where it shines most is intra-workout, when digesting an intact protein is not optimal from both a practicality stand point and nutrient timing standpoint. In general, around the workout is where one will find the most use/benefits from hydrolyzed proteins.

    Other times of the day, I would likely prefer a slower absorbing protein, like a blend of sorts.

    I would add some specifics to your last sentence, as every company who uses WPH says there's is high quality. The % of di-and tripeptides, is what defines how high quality the hydrolysate truely is. Without knowing the %, the term high quality has no context.
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    Originally Posted by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION View Post
    Where it shines most is intra-workout, when digesting an intact protein is not optimal from both a practicality stand point and nutrient timing standpoint. In general, around the workout is where one will find the most use/benefits from hydrolyzed proteins.

    Other times of the day, I would likely prefer a slower absorbing protein, like a blend of sorts.

    I would add some specifics to your last sentence, as every company who uses WPH says there's is high quality. The % of di-and tripeptides, is what defines how high quality the hydrolysate truely is. Without knowing the %, the term high quality has no context.

    Thus why I said it was a cliffs version, lol.

    The problem is most companies don't release that kind of information it seems... which makes it really impossible to know if it's high quality or not. I don't recall seeing that information anywhere in the new ON hydrolyzed protein they are coming out with. I also believe Gaspari reps said they aren't allowed to give out that info? (I could be wrong about that, I know they wouldn't give out certain info about the hydro whey in their new Size-On formula, but it coulda been something else they didn't give out).

    So my question is... if it's standard practice not to release that info.. how are we supposed to make an informed decision as to what is and isn't high quality? I've really not researched existing hydro whey products much, but are there some that do list the % of di/tri peptides?
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    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    Thus why I said it was a cliffs version, lol.

    The problem is most companies don't release that kind of information it seems... which makes it really impossible to know if it's high quality or not. I don't recall seeing that information anywhere in the new ON hydrolyzed protein they are coming out with. I also believe Gaspari reps said they aren't allowed to give out that info? (I could be wrong about that, I know they wouldn't give out certain info about the hydro whey in their new Size-On formula, but it coulda been something else they didn't give out).

    So my question is... if it's standard practice not to release that info.. how are we supposed to make an informed decision as to what is and isn't high quality? I've really not researched existing hydro whey products much, but are there some that do list the % of di/tri peptides?
    Yes, I agreed with your conclusion for the most part, just wanted to add a little.

    Well, when we launched IntrAbolic back in 2007, we were the first and only commercial product I knew of to list the % of di-and tripeptides(IntrAbolic has 70-80% di and tripeptides) and state OVER 30% hydrolysis RIGHT ON THE LABEL. I've still to this day, yet to see another product state both these peaces of information on their WPH

    I agree with your last paragraph which is why we clearly stated this important information on the label. Two years later no other product I have see, has a WPH even close to the di and tripeptide content we have in our custom WPH in IntrAbolic. To me, if I don't know the % of di-and tripeptides in a WPH product, I'm not using it, simple as that. WPH is very expensive and without knowing if it even contains ANY di-and tripeptides, I sure as hell aren't spending more for it than regular whey. And knowing the shady practices that go on in this industry, I'm not exactly going to assume a high quality hydrolysate is being used without the crucial information stated.

    That's just one of the many AEN differences.
    Last edited by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION; 09-28-2009 at 01:20 PM.
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    Originally Posted by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION View Post
    Yes, I agreed with your conclusion for the most part, just wanted to add a little.

    Well, when we launched IntrAbolic back in 2007, we were the first and only commercial product I knew of to list the % of di-and tripeptides(IntrAbolic has 70-80% di and tripeptides) and state OVER 30% hydrolysis RIGHT ON THE LABEL. I've still to this day, yet to see another product state both these peaces of information on their WPH

    I agree with your last paragraph which is why we clearly stated this important information on the label. Two years later no other product I have see, has a WPH even close to the di and tripeptide content we have in our custom WPH in IntrAbolic. To me, if I don't know the % of di-and tripeptides in a WPH product, I'm not using it, simple as that. WPH is very expensive and without knowing if it even contains ANY di-and tripeptides, I sure as hell aren't spending more for it than regular whey. And knowing the shady practices that go on in this industry, I'm not exactly going to assume a high quality hydrolysate is being used without the crucial information stated.

    That's just one of the many AEN differences.
    Thanks for the informative reply Believe this is the 3rd or 4th time you've given me some good info over the past few months now!

    I'm actually currently using Intrabolic, the citrus ice flavor. I'm not in love with the flavor but I must say the consistency/texture of it is superior to Intrain/intra-aid imo.

    I'm curious how the amount of WPH in intrabolic was decided though. Was it mostly from a cost standpoint, that any more would simply be too expensive? Or was it a taste/texture issue where it was hard to work with more? I notice 4g protein seems to be fairly common in intra's and I'm wondering if there is a reason for that... though that could just be because thats where you set it and others followed?
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    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    Thanks for the informative reply Believe this is the 3rd or 4th time you've given me some good info over the past few months now!

    I'm actually currently using Intrabolic, the citrus ice flavor. I'm not in love with the flavor but I must say the consistency/texture of it is superior to Intrain/intra-aid imo.

    I'm curious how the amount of WPH in intrabolic was decided though. Was it mostly from a cost standpoint, that any more would simply be too expensive? Or was it a taste/texture issue where it was hard to work with more? I notice 4g protein seems to be fairly common in intra's and I'm wondering if there is a reason for that... though that could just be because thats where you set it and others followed?
    My pleasure. You should really try the wild berry, it's our best yet and has an $8 off coupon right now.

    I decided on the amount of protein, EAAs and % of di-and triptides for the below reasons:

    1. I read and studied as much on intraWO amino-acid dosing as I could. More importantly I read the research, that clearly states the maximum stimulus on protein synthesis PER sitting is brought about between 10-15grams of amino-acids. This is the ceiling and going over it, does not further stimulate protein synthesis. IntrAbolic has 4grams of protein from WPH and another 4grams from free-form amino acids, so 8grams per sitting/serving and we recommend between 1-2 servings. So 8-16grams of peptides and amino-acids per serving.

    2. The amount of leucine shown to elicit the max protein synthesis response is 2.5-5g. IntrAbolic will provide 3g per serving and people will take 1-2 servings per workout, so 3-6g of leucine.

    3. Regarding the % of di-and tripeptides, I went for the HIGHEST BEST quality WPH I could find in the WORLD. It is custom to IntrAbolic and unmatched.

    Basically, there was no WPH/EAA specifically designed Intra-Workout product prior to IntrAbolic, so I had nothing to base the formula from prior. I set the amounts and quality based on the latest research I could find. The critics did what they do best, criticize, but at the end of the day and years after IntrAbolic was launched, the core of Intra-Workout formula's is now WPH/EAA. Actions speak louder then words.

    And as far as the other companies using the exact amounts and ingredients, with products coming out 1+ later then IntrAbolic, perhaps it's just a coincidence. To be honest I don't care anymore, I've heard and read every excuse on why all the similarities over the years.


    In regards to your last statement, pretty much a NO COMPROMISE attitude goes into formulating AEN products. Sometimes, some aspects of a product need to be compromised on for cost purposes, there's no way around it. But I can 100% say with confidence, that IntrAbolic, was an all out state of the art design from the start. I wanted it to be the Ferrari of the category and apparently alot of people believe it to be. It is still the highest rated intra-workout product on bb.com http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ae/intrabolic.html

    And the formula still stands, unchanged and compromised.

    People asked at one point why we didn't put carbs into it and we have given detailed responses as to why the carbs are not always the best option and as the majority of research shows, intra-workout carbs do not impact the performance of resistance training individuals working, until you get into the 1-1.5hour or greater time frame. And they can really interfere with fat burning in particular during cardio. I actually see many more disadvantages to having them in there, then advantages. But some people want then and for those who do, they can add them. Same goes for creatine.
    Last edited by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION; 09-28-2009 at 02:46 PM.
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    Great paper!

    So over 30% hydrolisis is much better than around 20% right?
    PreSurge = Pre WO.
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    Originally Posted by SHOWTIME View Post
    Great paper!

    So over 30% hydrolisis is much better than around 20% right?
    Well, any % of di-and tripeptides is a good thing but the higher amount the better yes. At 70-80% of off all the protein in our WPH being in di-and tripeptide form, that's as high as I have seen from a reputable source. Going higher, really just starts bringing about high amounts of free-form amino acids, which is exactly what we DON'T want when trying to create di-and tripeptides. We are trying to get the largest amount/spike of amino-acids in the blood during the workout and the more di-and tripeptides you have and less intact protein that will have to be digested, the better.

    BTW, your avatar is slightly freaking me out lol
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    Hydro bump
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    Good read - thanks for posting.
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    This should be a 5 star thread.
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by eldawg View Post
    Good read - thanks for posting.
    Questions?

    Originally Posted by Adjusting View Post
    This should be a 5 star thread.
    Would read again?
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION View Post
    Would read again?
    Most definately.
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    Red face

    Originally Posted by Adjusting View Post
    Most definately.
    Excelllent!


    If Anssi wasn't so lazy, he would come in here and post. Hopefully he see's my comments and steps up to the plate.
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    Registered User Adjusting's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION View Post
    Excelllent!


    If Anssi wasn't so lazy, he would come in here and post. Hopefully he see's my comments and steps up to the plate.
    He did post his paper in the science section. I guess that's something.
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by Adjusting View Post
    He did post his paper in the science section. I guess that's something.
    Good to hear he's not completely worthless!
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    Originally Posted by ATHLETIC EDGE NUTRITION View Post
    Good to hear he's not completely worthless!
    haha

    You guys still friends I hope
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    I love actually reading papers and how companies base their formulas off of them. Its much easier to decide which formula is superior.
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