Critique my 4/5 day split

[cander49]

Ok, so I've been lifting for about a year and a half now and I've been taking it a lot more seriously lately (last 6 months or so) and I'm starting to be stronger/bigger than the average guy in the gym, but I don't look like a body-builder by any means. My main sport is long-distance running (marathons and ultramarathons) and I run pretty decent times (2:52 marathon, also recently finished 9th in a USA track and field 50 mile championship event). I realize that running and weightlifting kind of negate each other and I definitely have to work extra hard and have a super good nutritional program to make gains in the gym, but I've been supplementing with creatine monohydrate, protein, and HMB, and I usually take 2 scoops of NO Xplode for that extra focus and energy in the gym (which usually does a TON for me). I also realize that getting bigger will hinder my running, but since I'm not an elite runner yet, I'm willing to sacrifice a slight amount of time to maintain a decent physique and not look totally emaciated all the time like most serious marathoners. The one plus-side is that I tend to maintain a really low bodyfat, so I look pretty cut all the time (tested my bodyfat in a fitness club 2 months ago and it registered at 4.9%). Anyway, I don't do anything for legs in the gym since it seriously hinders with my running (besides, running gives me pretty good-looking legs already), but I focus on upper body and core. I'm doing a 4 or 5 day split right now, depending on the week and how often I can make it in.

Here's what I do:

Day 1: Biceps
This is usually my most intense and focused day and I can't remember the last time I did this without NO Xplode, but I remember not being able to withstand whole workouts of this difficulty when I didn't take it.
1. Preacher curls: 2 standard sets (1 @ 75 pounds, 1 @ 80 lately) then a Double X overload superset (from the X-reps method): all in a row, set to failure at 85, hold at max stretch position as long as possible, set to failure at 65, set to failure at 45, holding at max stretch for about 5 seconds between rep, hold at max stretch as long as possible when done.
2. Seated incline curls: 2 standard sets (1 w 30 pound dumbbells, 1 w 35 pound dumbbells), 1 drop set (35, 25, 15)
3. Crazy 8s: (standing, with bar, 1 rep, equiv. rest, 2 reps, equiv rest, etc up to 8, and back to 1): start at 65, usually add 5 lbs after 8 and 5 lbs more after 5 on the way down, hold at max stretch as long as possible when done.
4. Dumbbell curls seated at preacher bench: each side separate, 2 sets each: 1 @ 30, 1 @ 35, then drop set (35, 25, 15, with x-reps between final 5 reps of the 15s)
5. Seated incline bench hammer curls for brachialis: usually just one quick double x overload set similar to the last superset in #1 (occasionally a warmup as well). 30, 20, 15 lb dumbbells, both sides together
6. Preacher curls drop set to burn out anything left (usually 80, 65, 55, 45, 35, 25 lb bar)
7. Ab/lower back stuff at the end most of the time.





Day 2: Chest:
I've been working my chest extra hard lately and sometimes throw it in to my split twice (maybe day 2 and day 5). I do about half my exercises on the decline bench since I'm most interested in bulking my lower chest (and also since flat bench tends to use more shoulders).
1. Decline press. Usually a fair number of sets. Lately I've been pushing my max, so I'll do something like 10@135 (very easy, could probably do 40 or something), 5 @ 165 (very easy, could hit 15), 3 @ 185 (pretty easy, could hit about 5 or 6), then max test (did 205 a few days back, ALMOST hit 210 today, but was a little too fatigued from the buildup and had to have just a slight bit of help). After that, I usually do another set at 165 or something. Today, I threw in a drop-set from 165 (dropping to 145, 125, 105, 85, 65, 45/bar, each weight to failure). Often times, if I don't feel like I blew out my lower chest super badly, I'll hit a double x overload set with dumbbells after finishing with the bar.
2. Incline press. 2 sets @ 135, sort of as a warmup for #3.
3. Incline double x overload drop set with dumbbells, similar to approach in bicep day. Usually my chest is already getting fairly fatigued, so I do 60 pound dumbbells, 45s, 30s or something close to that.
4. Decline Flyes: 3 sets, lately 25 pound dumbells, 30 pound dumbbells, 25 pound dumbbells, focusing on IMMACULATE form, often hold out the max stretch point after rep failure for as long as possible.
5. Flat dumb-bell press, just to blow out anything I have left in me, a few sets, often times a double x overload set.
6. Serratus work: Don't know exercise name, but it's lying flat on back on bench, bringing weight behind the head, almost down to floor, and back up, 3 sets.
7. Usually ab/lower back work.



Shoulder day:
My shoulders have made some serious progress lately, as this is a pretty hard day as well.
1. Upright dumbbell row: 2 standard sets, double x overload set.
2. Rocky press (behind and in front of the head, alternating, 1 rep = behind then in front): keep weight low enough to do 10 reps since very heavy weight could potentially strain my rotator cuff too much and cause injury: 4-5 sets, increasing weight from 65 pounds to ~ 100 pounds.
3. Rear delt stuff (no rear delt/pec fly machine at my campus gym for some reason, so I do barbell rear delt row usually, which is isn't ideal in my opinion, but it gets the job done), 3 sets usually.
4. Shoulder shrugs, 3 sets @70, 75, 75 lb dumbbells.
5. Military Press (dumb-bells), 2 standard sets, 1 double x overload set, which gets my shoulders super nice and veiny by the time I'm done.
6. Usually, some ab/lower back work.


Ok, now here's where things change. Sometimes I do triceps and back separately, sometimes I combine them into one day. I can't seem to get tons of tricep work in before they're totally blown out and fairly useless, so I often combine them with my back day (which is also pretty short) and just have a slightly long day.

Triceps:
1. Cable triceps pulldown. 2 standard sets, 1 double x overload set. Usually, even after just this, my triceps are feeling it a LOT.
2. Skullcrushers, 3 sets.
3. Close grip bench, 3 sets.
4. Dips, 3 sets to failure, hold as long as possible about halfway at the end of 3rd set.
I can't seem do much more than this with my triceps as they're usually just totally and completely blown after this much.

Back:
Since most back exercises are fairly compound in nature, I don't tend to do much if any x-reps or double x overload stuff.
1. T-Bar row: 3 sets
2. Seated rows: 3 sets
3. Lat pulldown: 3 sets
4. Lower back hyperextensions with a 45 lb plate (3 sets)



Ok, I think that's about it. Sorry it's such a long post. I've been making solid gains in every area lately, my chest seeming to gain the most and I do change things up fairly often just to keep my muscles guessing. Any advice?

[cander49]

Bump back from the 3rd page. Anyone have any advice?

[laneanders]

Ok, so I've been lifting for about a year and a half now and I've been taking it a lot more seriously lately (last 6 months or so) and I'm starting to be stronger/bigger than the average guy in the gym, but I don't look like a body-builder by any means. My main sport is long-distance running (marathons and ultramarathons) and I run pretty decent times (2:52 marathon, also recently finished 9th in a USA track and field 50 mile championship event). I realize that running and weightlifting kind of negate each other and I definitely have to work extra hard and have a super good nutritional program to make gains in the gym, but I've been supplementing with creatine monohydrate, protein, and HMB, and I usually take 2 scoops of NO Xplode for that extra focus and energy in the gym (which usually does a TON for me). I also realize that getting bigger will hinder my running, but since I'm not an elite runner yet, I'm willing to sacrifice a slight amount of time to maintain a decent physique and not look totally emaciated all the time like most serious marathoners. The one plus-side is that I tend to maintain a really low bodyfat, so I look pretty cut all the time (tested my bodyfat in a fitness club 2 months ago and it registered at 4.9%). Anyway, I don't do anything for legs in the gym since it seriously hinders with my running (besides, running gives me pretty good-looking legs already), but I focus on upper body and core. I'm doing a 4 or 5 day split right now, depending on the week and how often I can make it in.

Here's what I do:

Day 1: Biceps
This is usually my most intense and focused day and I can't remember the last time I did this without NO Xplode, but I remember not being able to withstand whole workouts of this difficulty when I didn't take it.
1. Preacher curls: 2 standard sets (1 @ 75 pounds, 1 @ 80 lately) then a Double X overload superset (from the X-reps method): all in a row, set to failure at 85, hold at max stretch position as long as possible, set to failure at 65, set to failure at 45, holding at max stretch for about 5 seconds between rep, hold at max stretch as long as possible when done.
2. Seated incline curls: 2 standard sets (1 w 30 pound dumbbells, 1 w 35 pound dumbbells), 1 drop set (35, 25, 15)
3. Crazy 8s: (standing, with bar, 1 rep, equiv. rest, 2 reps, equiv rest, etc up to 8, and back to 1): start at 65, usually add 5 lbs after 8 and 5 lbs more after 5 on the way down, hold at max stretch as long as possible when done.
4. Dumbbell curls seated at preacher bench: each side separate, 2 sets each: 1 @ 30, 1 @ 35, then drop set (35, 25, 15, with x-reps between final 5 reps of the 15s)
5. Seated incline bench hammer curls for brachialis: usually just one quick double x overload set similar to the last superset in #1 (occasionally a warmup as well). 30, 20, 15 lb dumbbells, both sides together
6. Preacher curls drop set to burn out anything left (usually 80, 65, 55, 45, 35, 25 lb bar)
7. Ab/lower back stuff at the end most of the time.





Day 2: Chest:
I've been working my chest extra hard lately and sometimes throw it in to my split twice (maybe day 2 and day 5). I do about half my exercises on the decline bench since I'm most interested in bulking my lower chest (and also since flat bench tends to use more shoulders).
1. Decline press. Usually a fair number of sets. Lately I've been pushing my max, so I'll do something like 10@135 (very easy, could probably do 40 or something), 5 @ 165 (very easy, could hit 15), 3 @ 185 (pretty easy, could hit about 5 or 6), then max test (did 205 a few days back, ALMOST hit 210 today, but was a little too fatigued from the buildup and had to have just a slight bit of help). After that, I usually do another set at 165 or something. Today, I threw in a drop-set from 165 (dropping to 145, 125, 105, 85, 65, 45/bar, each weight to failure). Often times, if I don't feel like I blew out my lower chest super badly, I'll hit a double x overload set with dumbbells after finishing with the bar.
2. Incline press. 2 sets @ 135, sort of as a warmup for #3.
3. Incline double x overload drop set with dumbbells, similar to approach in bicep day. Usually my chest is already getting fairly fatigued, so I do 60 pound dumbbells, 45s, 30s or something close to that.
4. Decline Flyes: 3 sets, lately 25 pound dumbells, 30 pound dumbbells, 25 pound dumbbells, focusing on IMMACULATE form, often hold out the max stretch point after rep failure for as long as possible.
5. Flat dumb-bell press, just to blow out anything I have left in me, a few sets, often times a double x overload set.
6. Serratus work: Don't know exercise name, but it's lying flat on back on bench, bringing weight behind the head, almost down to floor, and back up, 3 sets.
7. Usually ab/lower back work.



Shoulder day:
My shoulders have made some serious progress lately, as this is a pretty hard day as well.
1. Upright dumbbell row: 2 standard sets, double x overload set.
2. Rocky press (behind and in front of the head, alternating, 1 rep = behind then in front): keep weight low enough to do 10 reps since very heavy weight could potentially strain my rotator cuff too much and cause injury: 4-5 sets, increasing weight from 65 pounds to ~ 100 pounds.
3. Rear delt stuff (no rear delt/pec fly machine at my campus gym for some reason, so I do barbell rear delt row usually, which is isn't ideal in my opinion, but it gets the job done), 3 sets usually.
4. Shoulder shrugs, 3 sets @70, 75, 75 lb dumbbells.
5. Military Press (dumb-bells), 2 standard sets, 1 double x overload set, which gets my shoulders super nice and veiny by the time I'm done.
6. Usually, some ab/lower back work.


Ok, now here's where things change. Sometimes I do triceps and back separately, sometimes I combine them into one day. I can't seem to get tons of tricep work in before they're totally blown out and fairly useless, so I often combine them with my back day (which is also pretty short) and just have a slightly long day.

Triceps:
1. Cable triceps pulldown. 2 standard sets, 1 double x overload set. Usually, even after just this, my triceps are feeling it a LOT.
2. Skullcrushers, 3 sets.
3. Close grip bench, 3 sets.
4. Dips, 3 sets to failure, hold as long as possible about halfway at the end of 3rd set.
I can't seem do much more than this with my triceps as they're usually just totally and completely blown after this much.

Back:
Since most back exercises are fairly compound in nature, I don't tend to do much if any x-reps or double x overload stuff.
1. T-Bar row: 3 sets
2. Seated rows: 3 sets
3. Lat pulldown: 3 sets
4. Lower back hyperextensions with a 45 lb plate (3 sets)



Ok, I think that's about it. Sorry it's such a long post. I've been making solid gains in every area lately, my chest seeming to gain the most and I do change things up fairly often just to keep my muscles guessing. Any advice?

Do reverse flyes on an incline bench with dumbbells for rear delts. How many reps and at what weight are you doing the other stuff, and what exactly are your goals just to be more buff? If that's the case eat more...increase your calorie intake, lower your volume (since you are already doing tons of cardio obviously you want to focus on mass building and calorie sparing in the gym), since you are lowering your volume this can allow you to increase the weight, this in turn provides you with increases strength training, which therein yields ssize production and voila. You definitely need to eat more to grow though since you are at such a large amount of cardio. I am personally more of a sprinter, I am unparalleled up to 400 meters, and then I lag behind so I am naturally attuned to bodybuilding whereas you are geared towards the lactic acid production, which is a hindrance in bodybuilding you will have to work to negate this factor by decrease volume increasing weight and eating pretty much constantly. I hate to say this but...carb up brother. Also seeing as how you are sort of new to this...skip the advanced techniques. You will see size and strength increase swith standard 3 x 8 sets, which is something you need to be doing anyway. Isometrics, static contractions, and the like are great for size increase so that's fine. Drop sets are for tone more than anything, and that's not what you need right now. You need to fill out more. Raise the weights lose the advance techniques until you have put on another 20 lbs (18 or so of it muscle).

[cander49]

Do reverse flyes on an incline bench with dumbbells for rear delts. How many reps and at what weight are you doing the other stuff, and what exactly are your goals just to be more buff? If that's the case eat more...increase your calorie intake, lower your volume (since you are already doing tons of cardio obviously you want to focus on mass building and calorie sparing in the gym), since you are lowering your volume this can allow you to increase the weight, this in turn provides you with increases strength training, which therein yields ssize production and voila. You definitely need to eat more to grow though since you are at such a large amount of cardio. I am personally more of a sprinter, I am unparalleled up to 400 meters, and then I lag behind so I am naturally attuned to bodybuilding whereas you are geared towards the lactic acid production, which is a hindrance in bodybuilding you will have to work to negate this factor by decrease volume increasing weight and eating pretty much constantly. I hate to say this but...carb up brother. Also seeing as how you are sort of new to this...skip the advanced techniques. You will see size and strength increase swith standard 3 x 8 sets, which is something you need to be doing anyway. Isometrics, static contractions, and the like are great for size increase so that's fine. Drop sets are for tone more than anything, and that's not what you need right now. You need to fill out more. Raise the weights lose the advance techniques until you have put on another 20 lbs (18 or so of it muscle).

Cool, thanks for the advice. I usually eat at least 4000 calories a day and I have tons of carbs, which are basically the staple of my breakfast and lunch. I usually workout and run for a combined total of about 3 hours after I get out of the lab, so my body craves fat and protein later in the day, which is usually what I focus on for dinner. I have snacks fairly frequently, usually containing carbs. As for the more advanced stuff with the drop sets and DXOs, I've found in my experience that I make WAAAAY better gains when I include that type of stuff (in fact, the last 2 months, when I've been focusing on adding x-reps and drop sets, my strength and size have increased probably more than in any other 2 month period, ever). When you do those extra mini reps or lighter weight reps, you can recruit a lot more muscle fibers and cause a lot more hypertrophy, so from a scientific perspective, I don't know how it can really be more about tone. Speaking of the reverse flyes, I used to do those, but I struggled with keeping good form and I felt that I didn't get a whole lot out of it, but I can try them again. If I'm really working hard in the gym and supplementing with the aforementioned stuff, how fast do you think I ought to be able to pack on muscle?

[d.sum]

Ok, so I've been lifting for about a year and a half now and I've been taking it a lot more seriously lately (last 6 months or so) and I'm starting to be stronger/bigger than the average guy in the gym, but I don't look like a body-builder by any means. My main sport is long-distance running (marathons and ultramarathons) and I run pretty decent times (2:52 marathon, also recently finished 9th in a USA track and field 50 mile championship event). I realize that running and weightlifting kind of negate each other and I definitely have to work extra hard and have a super good nutritional program to make gains in the gym, but I've been supplementing with creatine monohydrate, protein, and HMB, and I usually take 2 scoops of NO Xplode for that extra focus and energy in the gym (which usually does a TON for me). I also realize that getting bigger will hinder my running, but since I'm not an elite runner yet, I'm willing to sacrifice a slight amount of time to maintain a decent physique and not look totally emaciated all the time like most serious marathoners. The one plus-side is that I tend to maintain a really low bodyfat, so I look pretty cut all the time (tested my bodyfat in a fitness club 2 months ago and it registered at 4.9%). Anyway, I don't do anything for legs in the gym since it seriously hinders with my running (besides, running gives me pretty good-looking legs already), but I focus on upper body and core. I'm doing a 4 or 5 day split right now, depending on the week and how often I can make it in.

Here's what I do:

Day 1: Biceps
This is usually my most intense and focused day and I can't remember the last time I did this without NO Xplode, but I remember not being able to withstand whole workouts of this difficulty when I didn't take it.
1. Preacher curls: 2 standard sets (1 @ 75 pounds, 1 @ 80 lately) then a Double X overload superset (from the X-reps method): all in a row, set to failure at 85, hold at max stretch position as long as possible, set to failure at 65, set to failure at 45, holding at max stretch for about 5 seconds between rep, hold at max stretch as long as possible when done.
2. Seated incline curls: 2 standard sets (1 w 30 pound dumbbells, 1 w 35 pound dumbbells), 1 drop set (35, 25, 15)
3. Crazy 8s: (standing, with bar, 1 rep, equiv. rest, 2 reps, equiv rest, etc up to 8, and back to 1): start at 65, usually add 5 lbs after 8 and 5 lbs more after 5 on the way down, hold at max stretch as long as possible when done.
4. Dumbbell curls seated at preacher bench: each side separate, 2 sets each: 1 @ 30, 1 @ 35, then drop set (35, 25, 15, with x-reps between final 5 reps of the 15s)
5. Seated incline bench hammer curls for brachialis: usually just one quick double x overload set similar to the last superset in #1 (occasionally a warmup as well). 30, 20, 15 lb dumbbells, both sides together
6. Preacher curls drop set to burn out anything left (usually 80, 65, 55, 45, 35, 25 lb bar)
7. Ab/lower back stuff at the end most of the time.





Day 2: Chest:
I've been working my chest extra hard lately and sometimes throw it in to my split twice (maybe day 2 and day 5). I do about half my exercises on the decline bench since I'm most interested in bulking my lower chest (and also since flat bench tends to use more shoulders).
1. Decline press. Usually a fair number of sets. Lately I've been pushing my max, so I'll do something like 10@135 (very easy, could probably do 40 or something), 5 @ 165 (very easy, could hit 15), 3 @ 185 (pretty easy, could hit about 5 or 6), then max test (did 205 a few days back, ALMOST hit 210 today, but was a little too fatigued from the buildup and had to have just a slight bit of help). After that, I usually do another set at 165 or something. Today, I threw in a drop-set from 165 (dropping to 145, 125, 105, 85, 65, 45/bar, each weight to failure). Often times, if I don't feel like I blew out my lower chest super badly, I'll hit a double x overload set with dumbbells after finishing with the bar.
2. Incline press. 2 sets @ 135, sort of as a warmup for #3.
3. Incline double x overload drop set with dumbbells, similar to approach in bicep day. Usually my chest is already getting fairly fatigued, so I do 60 pound dumbbells, 45s, 30s or something close to that.
4. Decline Flyes: 3 sets, lately 25 pound dumbells, 30 pound dumbbells, 25 pound dumbbells, focusing on IMMACULATE form, often hold out the max stretch point after rep failure for as long as possible.
5. Flat dumb-bell press, just to blow out anything I have left in me, a few sets, often times a double x overload set.
6. Serratus work: Don't know exercise name, but it's lying flat on back on bench, bringing weight behind the head, almost down to floor, and back up, 3 sets.
7. Usually ab/lower back work.



Shoulder day:
My shoulders have made some serious progress lately, as this is a pretty hard day as well.
1. Upright dumbbell row: 2 standard sets, double x overload set.
2. Rocky press (behind and in front of the head, alternating, 1 rep = behind then in front): keep weight low enough to do 10 reps since very heavy weight could potentially strain my rotator cuff too much and cause injury: 4-5 sets, increasing weight from 65 pounds to ~ 100 pounds.
3. Rear delt stuff (no rear delt/pec fly machine at my campus gym for some reason, so I do barbell rear delt row usually, which is isn't ideal in my opinion, but it gets the job done), 3 sets usually.
4. Shoulder shrugs, 3 sets @70, 75, 75 lb dumbbells.
5. Military Press (dumb-bells), 2 standard sets, 1 double x overload set, which gets my shoulders super nice and veiny by the time I'm done.
6. Usually, some ab/lower back work.


Ok, now here's where things change. Sometimes I do triceps and back separately, sometimes I combine them into one day. I can't seem to get tons of tricep work in before they're totally blown out and fairly useless, so I often combine them with my back day (which is also pretty short) and just have a slightly long day.

Triceps:
1. Cable triceps pulldown. 2 standard sets, 1 double x overload set. Usually, even after just this, my triceps are feeling it a LOT.
2. Skullcrushers, 3 sets.
3. Close grip bench, 3 sets.
4. Dips, 3 sets to failure, hold as long as possible about halfway at the end of 3rd set.
I can't seem do much more than this with my triceps as they're usually just totally and completely blown after this much.

Back:
Since most back exercises are fairly compound in nature, I don't tend to do much if any x-reps or double x overload stuff.
1. T-Bar row: 3 sets
2. Seated rows: 3 sets
3. Lat pulldown: 3 sets
4. Lower back hyperextensions with a 45 lb plate (3 sets)



Ok, I think that's about it. Sorry it's such a long post. I've been making solid gains in every area lately, my chest seeming to gain the most and I do change things up fairly often just to keep my muscles guessing. Any advice?

this is bull s**t.no leg day?do squats, barbel rows, benchpress,m.press+deadlift as 1st priority

[laneanders]

Cool, thanks for the advice. I usually eat at least 4000 calories a day and I have tons of carbs, which are basically the staple of my breakfast and lunch. I usually workout and run for a combined total of about 3 hours after I get out of the lab, so my body craves fat and protein later in the day, which is usually what I focus on for dinner. I have snacks fairly frequently, usually containing carbs. As for the more advanced stuff with the drop sets and DXOs, I've found in my experience that I make WAAAAY better gains when I include that type of stuff (in fact, the last 2 months, when I've been focusing on adding x-reps and drop sets, my strength and size have increased probably more than in any other 2 month period, ever). When you do those extra mini reps or lighter weight reps, you can recruit a lot more muscle fibers and cause a lot more hypertrophy, so from a scientific perspective, I don't know how it can really be more about tone. Speaking of the reverse flyes, I used to do those, but I struggled with keeping good form and I felt that I didn't get a whole lot out of it, but I can try them again. If I'm really working hard in the gym and supplementing with the aforementioned stuff, how fast do you think I ought to be able to pack on muscle?

It's more about tone, because it recruits the smaller thinner muscle fibers rather than the larger more robust ones. It provides you the chiseled edge look, but I took out of your post that you wanted overall mass before hand. Also you aren't exactly advanced...so you will see large strength gains as long as you go to positive failure, and you can do that in many different ways. Do whatever you want I was just trying to save your CNS for you. They are called advance routines and methods, because they are specifically taxing on your recovery ability. It's whatever you want though, I have to do advance routines to see gains now, but I've been doing this for alot longer than you. What the other poster said is partially accurate. You won't bulk up nearly as fast without doing compound movements like squats and deadlifts because they both give you an absolutely enormous Testosterone booster. Along with all the muscle you waste with lactic acid from marathon running I would say you are catabolic far more often than the average lifter, so you are going to be taking three steps forward and two steps back most of the time. I'd say you can put on roughly 4 pounds of muscle per month if you eat right, exercise right, and supplement correctly. That's quality muscle though, and you can't hope for much more than that with the type of cardio you are doing. Also you saw a larger increase in this past two months than any other, because it's exponential growth not linear. It rarely has anything to do with the different stunts and sets you perform. It always has to do with going to positive failure. The way you are doing things includes much more metabolism boosting effects than simply slinging around some heavies so what you are doing is basically more cardio albeit with iron. Since you want to add muscle this is the exact opposite of what you are striving to do. You want to bulk up while doing the minimum amount of work, otherwise you are going to have to eat even more with the tremendous amount of cardio you are doing. I don't get on these forums much so I probably won't post again, but good luck.

[cander49]

this is bull s**t.no leg day?do squats, barbel rows, benchpress,m.press+deadlift as 1st priority

Did you read what I wrote? Marathon/ultramarathon running is my main sport, I pretty much started lifting just so I wouldn't look like a marathon runner. If I do legs, it messes up my running schedule badly. My legs aren't weak by the way... I can easily leg-press 500 pounds with perfect form without ever working my legs in the gym, which is probably more impressive than any of my other stats right now. As I said, I'm only interested in working my upper body in the gym, so I'm looking for feedback on that.

[cander49]

It's more about tone, because it recruits the smaller thinner muscle fibers rather than the larger more robust ones. It provides you the chiseled edge look, but I took out of your post that you wanted overall mass before hand. Also you aren't exactly advanced...so you will see large strength gains as long as you go to positive failure, and you can do that in many different ways. Do whatever you want I was just trying to save your CNS for you. They are called advance routines and methods, because they are specifically taxing on your recovery ability. It's whatever you want though, I have to do advance routines to see gains now, but I've been doing this for alot longer than you. What the other poster said is partially accurate. You won't bulk up nearly as fast without doing compound movements like squats and deadlifts because they both give you an absolutely enormous Testosterone booster. Along with all the muscle you waste with lactic acid from marathon running I would say you are catabolic far more often than the average lifter, so you are going to be taking three steps forward and two steps back most of the time. I'd say you can put on roughly 4 pounds of muscle per month if you eat right, exercise right, and supplement correctly. That's quality muscle though, and you can't hope for much more than that with the type of cardio you are doing. Also you saw a larger increase in this past two months than any other, because it's exponential growth not linear. It rarely has anything to do with the different stunts and sets you perform. It always has to do with going to positive failure. The way you are doing things includes much more metabolism boosting effects than simply slinging around some heavies so what you are doing is basically more cardio albeit with iron. Since you want to add muscle this is the exact opposite of what you are striving to do. You want to bulk up while doing the minimum amount of work, otherwise you are going to have to eat even more with the tremendous amount of cardio you are doing. I don't get on these forums much so I probably won't post again, but good luck.

Ok, thx for the input. As for the catabolic effects, that's why I've been taking HMB, which seems to help a fair amount. Not only do I seem to gain muscle faster on it, but I typically recover faster from big runs with it. I've run 2 pretty draining 50 mile races while on this stuff and been running at pretty much 100% within 2 days after both. I'm going to make an effort to add some more compound exercises into my lifts, so we'll see what I can do.

[d.sum]

Did you read what I wrote? Marathon/ultramarathon running is my main sport, I pretty much started lifting just so I wouldn't look like a marathon runner. If I do legs, it messes up my running schedule badly. My legs aren't weak by the way... I can easily leg-press 500 pounds with perfect form without ever working my legs in the gym, which is probably more impressive than any of my other stats right now. As I said, I'm only interested in working my upper body in the gym, so I'm looking for feedback on that.

your body grows as a whole. nothing builds leg muscles like b.squats.focus on core + compound exercises

[Mulls]

you can work your legs without them getting huge, dude. my friend squats well over 400 pounds and plays d1 soccer. it's all about how you work them. plus, you give biceps more sets than anything else. i mean, giving biceps their own day is pretty much ludicrous in my book, it's such a tiny muscle...you can do it if you want, but don't insult your back by giving it less work than your biceps...it's always a good idea to give chest and back and shoulders their own day, but giving biceps and triceps their own day may not be. try combining bis and tris (and adding forearms) into one 'arms' day, and lay off so many bi exercises - triceps make your arms look bigger, AND your biceps look bigger. fact.

[Mulls]

oh and one more thing - lower body exercises get your upper body bigger.

[d.sum]

you can work your legs without them getting huge, dude. my friend squats well over 400 pounds and plays d1 soccer. it's all about how you work them. plus, you give biceps more sets than anything else. i mean, giving biceps their own day is pretty much ludicrous in my book, it's such a tiny muscle...you can do it if you want, but don't insult your back by giving it less work than your biceps...it's always a good idea to give chest and back and shoulders their own day, but giving biceps and triceps their own day may not be. try combining bis and tris (and adding forearms) into one 'arms' day, and lay off so many bi exercises - triceps make your arms look bigger, AND your biceps look bigger. fact.

agree totally!biceps r a small muscle group. instaed of isolation exercises,gets good stimulation on back workouts

[cander49]

Well, I'm not worried about getting them huge, just more that if I'm at all sore, I can't run nearly as well. I typically have a pretty specific purpose for my run every single day, so it's really bad if I have off days. By the way, I did 210 on decline press today, 5 pounds more than my previous max. It was actually somewhat easy, so I feel like I should be able to hit 215 next time I go for it if I'm fresh. Yeah yeah, I know it's not a very big number, but it's been climbing pretty steadily lately so I'm happy.

[cander49]

you can work your legs without them getting huge, dude. my friend squats well over 400 pounds and plays d1 soccer. it's all about how you work them. plus, you give biceps more sets than anything else. i mean, giving biceps their own day is pretty much ludicrous in my book, it's such a tiny muscle...you can do it if you want, but don't insult your back by giving it less work than your biceps...it's always a good idea to give chest and back and shoulders their own day, but giving biceps and triceps their own day may not be. try combining bis and tris (and adding forearms) into one 'arms' day, and lay off so many bi exercises - triceps make your arms look bigger, AND your biceps look bigger. fact.

Yeah, true, my tris need some more work, but they seem to burn out really quickly when I'm working them hard. I always just seem to have this awesome energy on bicep day and I just love nailing out hard set after set. What back exercises would you suggest I add?

[Wolfman09]

Yeah, true, my tris need some more work, but they seem to burn out really quickly when I'm working them hard. I always just seem to have this awesome energy on bicep day and I just love nailing out hard set after set. What back exercises would you suggest I add?

dude, chill with all that crazy ass stuff ur doing, just relax and keep it simple.

day 1: Chest and Tris
- Bench Press: 5x6-10
- Incline Bench: 5x6-10
- Dips: 5x failure
- Close Grip Bench: 5x6-10
- French Press: 5x6-10

day 2: Shoulders and Legs
- Military Press: 5x6-10
- Side Raises: 5x6-10
- Squats: 5x6-10
- Lunges: 5x6-10
- Calf raises: 6x12-15

day 3: Back and Bis
- Wide Grip chins: 5x failure
- Barbell Rows: 5x6-10
- Deadlift: 5x6-10
- Barbell Curls: 5x6-10
- Dumbell Concentrations curls: 5x6-10

i made this routine up off the top of my head in 3 minutes, its not rocket science...