3 day full body w/o squats - advice

[matt297]

I was doing Rippetoes but for a few reasons, which i'll not go into, I need a break from it (i'm not dissin the program in any way! ). I would still consider myself a beginner.

For the meantime I want a program that will;

primarily - increase mass
secondary - increase strength
routine - Full body 3 day

I need a break from squats for now but wanted to stick with the big compound lifts as much as I can. I've churned out this routine based on this;

MON
Deadlift 2x6
Bench Press 3x6-8
Pull-ups 3xF

WED
Powercleans 5x3
Military Press 3x6
Chin-ups 3xF
Calf-press 4x8

FRI
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Rows 3x6
Dips 3x8 (weighted >8)

Too much? Bad order?

Any help is really appreciated. Thanks

[magnet]

Looks ok, but why can't you do squats? Even if you were to do less weight it would still be beneficial to you. Deload a good amount and go up as you feel your capable even if you doing 20 reps it will still help tremendously. If you REALLY have ACTUAL injury that is keeping you from squats then take the time off if you need the time off, but I would analyze where your actually at with that. Would you be able to do leg extensions and leg press etc? even that is better than no direct leg work..

It seems to me that if your ok to push it on deadlifts then your good to do at minimum some lighter squats..

Props for asking for advice..

[matt297]

Looks ok, but why can't you do squats? Would you be able to do leg extensions and leg press etc? even that is better than no direct leg work..

It seems to me that if your ok to push it on deadlifts then your good to do at minimum some lighter squats..

I had a few bad squat sessions a few months ago and got bad pain in my knees and right hip. I was still doin a few things wrong since then i think.Anyway, I still get pain in my knees and hip when i squat and generally throughout the day so I feel I just need a break from them.
I also tend to squat badly through habit so to break this bad habit I wana take a break then re-address it and build it up the right way with the right form.

I figured doing deads wouldn't put so much pressure on my knees and hip but would still work the legs and be a good mass builder.

[Grizadams07]

You wanna gain mass but you dont want to do squats.. thats like an oxymoron.

If you had bad squat session its because your form was off. Practice on a smith machine. It will help you get your form. If you keep the weight on your heels then its not hard to get the form down at all, and it wont hurt you.. People are not going to take you serious if you want to get rid of squats just because you want a big upper body and could care less about legs.

[matt297]

You wanna gain mass but you dont want to do squats.. thats like an oxymoron.

If you had bad squat session its because your form was off. Practice on a smith machine. It will help you get your form. If you keep the weight on your heels then its not hard to get the form down at all, and it wont hurt you.. People are not going to take you serious if you want to get rid of squats just because you want a big upper body and could care less about legs.

What are you talking about?!

The post said that I was taking "a break" from squats "for now". I didnt explicitly state, but I am planning to get back into squatting after a break.
I also admitted that my form was off and that this was the reason for my bad squatting. Again maybe i didnt explicitly state this but this is why I said in the OP that "I wont go into it", cuz I didnt want to create a rippetoes or squat debate!
And what are you on about "couldnt care less about legs"? Do deadlifts not work legs? or powercleans?

[olinerules87]

that monday workout is going to take about 25 minutes. now I'm not a volume advocate at all but I would try doing a bit more.

every workout:
1 lower body compound
1 upper body compound push
1 upper body compound pull
1 shoulder
1-2 auxilary (bi, tri, abs, calves, whatever)

[matt297]

that monday workout is going to take about 25 minutes. now I'm not a volume advocate at all but I would try doing a bit more.

every workout:
1 lower body compound
1 upper body compound push
1 upper body compound pull
1 shoulder
1-2 auxilary (bi, tri, abs, calves, whatever)

Yea i thought id keep the volume low cuz im still a beginner, but you think thats too low?
I actually incorporated your (above) advice from a different post I came across earlier! I throw in a shoulder lateral raise into mondays. Thanks for that advice

[magnet]

Yea i thought id keep the volume low cuz im still a beginner, but you think thats too low?
I actually incorporated your (above) advice from a different post I came across earlier! I throw in a shoulder lateral raise into mondays. Thanks for that advice

I'm no expert but I would say thats plenty of volume at least at first until you get used to it.. then move on from there.. As far as squats I understand what your saying and as long as its actually just a small break from them and not a giving up on them its ok. Take a week or two to let yourself heal up and then start light, like 50% of your max or something and just try and nail the form. Do that for awhile and gain confidence and then move up from there..

[A.Leon]

I had a few bad squat sessions a few months ago and got bad pain in my knees and right hip. I was still doin a few things wrong since then i think.Anyway, I still get pain in my knees and hip when i squat and generally throughout the day so I feel I just need a break from them.
I also tend to squat badly through habit so to break this bad habit I wana take a break then re-address it and build it up the right way with the right form.

I figured doing deads wouldn't put so much pressure on my knees and hip but would still work the legs and be a good mass builder.

i would recommend seeing a chiropracter or ortherpedists to address your joint paint and to analyze the source of your pain. if it is from squatting, then research, talk to people, figure your form out and slowly pack on the lbs

[Grizadams07]

What are you talking about?!

The post said that I was taking "a break" from squats "for now". I didnt explicitly state, but I am planning to get back into squatting after a break.
I also admitted that my form was off and that this was the reason for my bad squatting. Again maybe i didnt explicitly state this but this is why I said in the OP that "I wont go into it", cuz I didnt want to create a rippetoes or squat debate!
And what are you on about "couldnt care less about legs"? Do deadlifts not work legs? or powercleans?

Actually you state you want a break from it. You dont state why, and my guess is because you dont feel like doing them, like most beginners. You claim you deadlift and powerclean, and yes it does work out legs, but I highly doubt if you cant get your form for squat right, you are doing deadlift and power cleans right. You shouldnt even be doing power cleans in the first place if you dont have proper squat technique. Doubt your deadlift and powercleans are helping your legs at all.

And if you really are injured, you should not be doing deadlifts and especially powercleans. So see a doctore before you even lift again.

[ThiZzNation925]

Well, when you do get back into squats the same thing will happen - your knees and hips will start hurting again. Unless if you have a medical condition that would cause squats to bring pain to your knees and hips, then the problem lies with your form. It has nothing to do with consistently doing squats.

Again maybe i didnt explicitly state this but this is why I said in the OP that "I wont go into it", cuz I didnt want to create a rippetoes or squat debate!
And what are you on about "couldnt care less about legs"? Do deadlifts not work legs? or powercleans?

Nobody is really going to help you create a program without squats because you don't feel like doing it, or because you don't wanna lower the weight and fix your form.

[matt297]

Actually you state you want a break from it. You dont state why, and my guess is because you dont feel like doing them, like most beginners. You claim you deadlift and powerclean, and yes it does work out legs, but I highly doubt if you cant get your form for squat right, you are doing deadlift and power cleans right. You shouldnt even be doing power cleans in the first place if you dont have proper squat technique. Doubt your deadlift and powercleans are helping your legs at all.

And if you really are injured, you should not be doing deadlifts and especially powercleans. So see a doctore before you even lift again.

I didn't state why BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT A SQUAT DEABTE!!!!!!!!! I was hoping people would just accept that I got my own reasons and give me advice about the program itself!

I dont feel like doing them because I've got into a bad technique squat habit. I hope by taking a break from squats for a few weeks I will counteract the technique I have conditioned myself with and will be able to re-learn the correct form without my incorrectly conditioned technique. Psychological motive rather than physical.

I never claimed I did powercleans or deadlifts. But for the record I do do deadlifts. Im sure as a beginner my form isnt perfect but I have got people to watch me do it and Im happy with my current form. I have never powercleaned however, so I will take your advice onboard about that, thanks. But why would I be unable to learn correct powerclean form just because my squat was off?

Well, when you do get back into squats the same thing will happen - your knees and hips will start hurting again. Unless if you have a medical condition that would cause squats to bring pain to your knees and hips, then the problem lies with your form. It has nothing to do with consistently doing squats.



Nobody is really going to help you create a program without squats because you don't feel like doing it, or because you don't wanna lower the weight and fix your form.

Injuries dont go away? There goes the medical proffesion!

The problem lies with my form? I have admitted as much and NEVER tried to hide this fact. I have never, and will never, slate squats. I like squats. I accept how important they are. I actually enjoy them! I never meant that my squatting issues developed because of doing squats consistently. I meant that I was doing them badly and that was why!

Look, I understand squats and how to do them. I just wasnt able to put that theory into GOOD practice! I will re-address this AFTER A BREAK!

After my break I will lower the weight and fix my form. If this wasnt clear before then here it is in black and white!

Nevertheless, thanks for the input.

[Los_Diablo]

How about instead of taking out squats you do a different type of squat for a while.

For instance ditch the back squat and use front squats for the time being.

Hell while we're at it why not doing incline bench for a while too if you've been doing nothing but flat bench all this time and stiff legged deads if you've been doing nothing but bent legged one's?

[olinerules87]

Yea i thought id keep the volume low cuz im still a beginner, but you think thats too low?
I actually incorporated your (above) advice from a different post I came across earlier! I throw in a shoulder lateral raise into mondays. Thanks for that advice

maybe then just try adding 1 more exercise in each day

[Supercritical]

I think the reason people are negatively commenting about your lack of squatting is that squats are simply an extremely useful and important lift. If you are having problems with your form, you should be working to address your form NOW, not in a few weeks. Perhaps try some box squats? That can really help teach you to keep your knees behind your toes (a problem that plagued my knees for a long time before I figured out what I was doing wrong), and really condition you to control bar placement over your feet.

But, like everything else in life, squats aren't for everyone. If you want to replace squats with something, at least do Smith squats or leg presses so you don't neglect your legs. Relying on cleans and deads for leg work is a little foolish, imo.

[Shwayze]

primarily - increase mass
secondary - increase strength
routine - Full body 3 day

"There is simply no other exercise, and certainly no machine, that produces the level of central nervous system activity, improved balance and coordination, skeletal loading and bone density enhancement, muscular stimulation and growth, connective tissue stress and strength, psychological demand and toughness, and overall systemic conditioning than the correctly performed full squat. " -Rippetoe


just do 5x5 strong lifts

[Miketoc]

Do the same workout but dump the weight off the squats and use your squat sets to practice your form. Have a coach or somebody who knows what they're doing watch your squat technique and give you tips for technique improvement until you have it down. Add a little bit of weight from workout to workout while ensuring your technique does not suffer until you get back into the swing of things.

In the meantime, you can certainly throw in some leg extensions, presses, and curls, at least until you get your squat form corrected and can begin ramping the weight up on those.

Good luck!

[andre.krec]

I agree with Mike.

Just do bodyweight squats until you get the form down. Then do the bar for a while until you get the form down. Don't rush into a lot of weight. If you are hurting yourself, find out why.


But your workout routine seems fine. Good exercises.

[sheed30]

I think it looks fine, taking a break from squats for a few weeks isn't going to kill you, you'll be completely fine, I really do not understand why people care so much that you're taking a couple weeks off squats, give the guy a break.

But......you could just do leg presses.

[Bamma]

[matt297]

How about instead of taking out squats you do a different type of squat for a while.

For instance ditch the back squat and use front squats for the time being.

Hell while we're at it why not doing incline bench for a while too if you've been doing nothing but flat bench all this time and stiff legged deads if you've been doing nothing but bent legged one's?

Yeah I'll take that onboard thanks.

maybe then just try adding 1 more exercise in each day

Ok, thanks man, I'll def add something in.

I think the reason people are negatively commenting about your lack of squatting is that squats are simply an extremely useful and important lift. If you are having problems with your form, you should be working to address your form NOW, not in a few weeks. Perhaps try some box squats? That can really help teach you to keep your knees behind your toes (a problem that plagued my knees for a long time before I figured out what I was doing wrong), and really condition you to control bar placement over your feet.

But, like everything else in life, squats aren't for everyone. If you want to replace squats with something, at least do Smith squats or leg presses so you don't neglect your legs. Relying on cleans and deads for leg work is a little foolish, imo.

I know squats are a useful and important lift. I never suggested they weren't. The reason why most people have commented like they have is because everyone has such a hard on for squats, and have negelected to understand that a few weeks without them isn't the end of the world.

I should be addressing my form now? Did you read the above posts? Since when did people forget about recovery? The reason im not fixin my for now is because i got into a bad habit. Time off should correct this train of thought, as well as give my knees and hip a bit of recovery.

However, I will take your suggestion about box squats and maybe introduce these once I get back into squats. Thanks

"There is simply no other exercise, and certainly no machine, that produces the level of central nervous system activity, improved balance and coordination, skeletal loading and bone density enhancement, muscular stimulation and growth, connective tissue stress and strength, psychological demand and toughness, and overall systemic conditioning than the correctly performed full squat. " -Rippetoe

When done right

-------------> AGAIN, Im not questioning the squat. <---------------------

I think it looks fine, taking a break from squats for a few weeks isn't going to kill you, you'll be completely fine, I really do not understand why people care so much that you're taking a couple weeks off squats, give the guy a break.

But......you could just do leg presses.

Thank you. I don't get why people dont understand this. A few weeks off squats and your not gona drop 50lbs of muscle, put on 100lbs of fat and instantly lose your ability to lift.

If I said "Im taking a few weeks off teh bicep curlz cuz I hurt my arm" people wouldnt get so uptight.

She can squat on my face