ketosis diet question

[MadeUnderground]

When should I bother buying one of those ketostix to see if my body is in ketosis? How long does it take?
Today was my first day of no carbs.. I was just going to wait like two or three days before buying one of those sticks.

[ronniec01]

if you stay under your carb limit it will take about 2-3 days at the most. and you don't need a ketostick. you will know your in keto because you will have bad breath a metalic taste in your month when you pee first thing in the morning is will smell horable and it will be a neon like yellow color also some people get slight headach as well when they enter ketosis

[th3pwn3r]

if you stay under your carb limit it will take about 2-3 days at the most. and you don't need a ketostick. you will know your in keto because you will have bad breath a metalic taste in your month when you pee first thing in the morning is will smell horable and it will be a neon like yellow color also some people get slight headach as well when they enter ketosis

You just need to brush your teeth more often. Go work on your oral hygiene, sounds like halitosis.

[ronniec01]

ok no matter howhow much you brush your teeth while your on keto you will have bad breath

[obesebeast]

you'll feel ketotic, trust me

[user45522]

I'm doing Atkins. 1.5 weeks into it and I lost 9lbs. I'm using the stix, and recommend them because I was at a dangerous level yesterday,and thought it was just the withdrawals from sugar. I wouldn't mess with it... It is after all your body, and you're trying to improve it, not hurt it. Good luck with your Ketosis angle ; keep us posted on your progress

[theapexxxx]

I'm doing Atkins. 1.5 weeks into it and I lost 9lbs. I'm using the stix, and recommend them because I was at a dangerous level yesterday,and thought it was just the withdrawals from sugar. I wouldn't mess with it... It is after all your body, and you're trying to improve it, not hurt it. Good luck with your Ketosis angle ; keep us posted on your progress

Not quite sure what your saying here.....
Dangerous level of what?
Whats worse than ketosis?

[user45522]

Well I'm not exactly an expert, but the negative press that Atkins gets seems to talk about Ketosis being really dangerous for your liver. It has to do with ketones being converted into acetone. Besides, doesn't your body literally live on glucose/carbs? And isn't balance the ideal way to be? I would imagine that eating extreme high protein would hurt one in the long run..... seeing that protein depletes calcium, but this might be an issue for females only.

[94jettameowpsst]

If it's your first time doing it i would suggest ketostix just so you know if you're "there" or not and to also see if you eat too much of something if it throws you out; so you dont do it again.

You wont necessarily have horrible breath or a metallic taste, however if you feel super out of it, cant put sentences together properly without thinking more about it than usual, or your pee smells like ammonia you're probably in ketosis...and more than likely dehydrated also.

I'm about to start it again actually, i hate the diet due to lack of variety (i like my carbs haha) and the sluggishness i typically feel for the first week or 2.

Good luck though, drink water, lose weight !

[94jettameowpsst]

Well I'm not exactly an expert, but the negative press that Atkins gets seems to talk about Ketosis being really dangerous for your liver. It has to do with ketones being converted into acetone. Besides, doesn't your body literally live on glucose/carbs? And isn't balance the ideal way to be? I would imagine that eating extreme high protein would hurt one in the long run..... seeing that protein depletes calcium, but this might be an issue for females only.

You get into a dangerous level if you dont drink enough water...which is why you're supposed to basically double your liquid intake while on the diet, or you REALLY could get sick.


And thats what multivitamins are for!

[obesebeast]

doesn't your body literally live on glucose/carbs?

what carbs did we eat prior to the agricultural revolution? seasonal fruits and veggies and whatever roots/tubers we'd scavenge? For the past 200,000 years we've lived off fatty cuts of meat and <30g carbs/day. Fats, carbs, proteins, all eventually are converted to glucose. A cyclical keto meal plan will call for ~70% calories from fat, 30% from protein. Protein is first and foremost a building block and should not be relied upon as a fuel source. If you're doing keto and eating >50% calories from carbs, you're doing a severe disservice to your body and progress.

[user45522]

You do have an excellent point about what we ate before we started mass producing fruit and veg. At the beginning of the year, I read in “Defense of Food” by Michael Pollan who has excellent pointers about what is food, and what is not. Now I only stick to the outside isles in the grocery store.

MadeUnderground,I got my Ketosis stix as a precautionary practice because I know my body is not what it was 10 years ago. I know that changing my chemistry rapidly, and increasing my exercise extensively will raise my immediate risk of injury, and even heart failure. I am “out of shape” enough to be overly pre-cautious around the subject of health and fitness.

If you are only moderately out of shape, or already in shape you can be less pre-cautious and proceed without monitoring your ketosis. For me, I find it helpful to do the stix as part of the ritual to train my mind to be more in tune with my physic. I also purchased a Contour sugar monitor to do weekly monitoring of my blood. I’m trying to get myself out of a “pre-diabetic” phase.

About your diet, I think you are on the right track with the high protein. Here is a snap-shot of my experience with the various diets around.

In Jan 2009- BALANCE DIET - I lost 19 lbs and gained 11 back, all within the span of 3 months.
In April 2009 – I became a VEGGIE, and I gained even more weight that I had originally started out with. Benefit was a lost ALL symptoms of PMS, and cramping. Not that this applies to you, but it was striking to see the effects meat has on a females body. Now, I eat grass-feed, lean meat ONLY.
In July 2009 – I started ATKINS - I have lost 9lbs in one week, and I don’t even miss carbs. My concentration level is up, I’m focused, energetic, not hungry and sleeping more soundly at night.

I think mynumbers make this equation an obvious one. I also grew up in Africa where we lived on a 80% diet of protein because of game, and hunting culture there. In Africa plants don’t thrive, like they do in the rest of the planet, so people are generally forced to eat protein. One thing to look at is, the difference between the typical African body, and the typical European body. It’s an obvious answer to the carb/protein dilemma we constantly question. So good on you for finding the best diet to loose fat, and gain muscle.

Theapxxxx, thank you for the advice to increase fluid intake. I’ll definetly be doing that while I continue to limit carb intake considerably.

[ZidaneValor]

what carbs did we eat prior to the agricultural revolution? seasonal fruits and veggies and whatever roots/tubers we'd scavenge? For the past 200,000 years we've lived off fatty cuts of meat and <30g carbs/day.

An apple has 33g of carbs. A banana has 30g of carbs. People were gathering fruits and vegetation long before we developed the necessary weapons to become hunters. Not saying humans didn't eat meat because they did feed off of already dead animals, but people have been eating protein/carbs/fats forever.

If you're doing keto and eating >50% calories from carbs

wat?

[obesebeast]

wat?

ah good call, I meant protein

and as far as fruits and veggies go, yea, we did eat some, but not mass amounts of carbs like we do today....we likely ate in the range of ~100g net carbs/day from the various fruits/veggies we'd gather and the majority of our calories still came from meats, regardless of location and even with fruits/veggies/grains, they're still seasonal and were not a reliable food source until the agricultural revolution

i'd like to make an argument for intermittent fasting as well but I could broscience rant forever so I won't

[MadeUnderground]

Thanks for these great answers guys. I'll rep when I get back from the doctor. lol.

Also how long did it take you guys to get into ketosis? I was really sluggish and brain-foggy yesterday.
Should I continue taking my ECA stack?
I think I will go and buy some ketostix in a few days. I'll give it some time.


If you don't eat a lot of carbs to begin with, will it be faster for you to get into keto or slower?
I was never a huge carb eater, and before going into this diet, I was on a good 6 meal a day plan.
I had about 153g, usually less carbs a day.

I never thought I would miss carbs so much though. Today is a low carb day and I am loving it. Sorta.

What do you guys think about Sprout bread too? On Twin Peak's list, he has whole grain on his high carb day list. But says nothing about sprout bread.
So I'm eating sprout english muffin on my low carb day anyway, because it's made from sprout not grain. So idk?

[Billy_The_Kid]

what carbs did we eat prior to the agricultural revolution? seasonal fruits and veggies and whatever roots/tubers we'd scavenge? For the past 200,000 years we've lived off fatty cuts of meat and <30g carbs/day. Fats, carbs, proteins, all eventually are converted to glucose. A cyclical keto meal plan will call for ~70% calories from fat, 30% from protein. Protein is first and foremost a building block and should not be relied upon as a fuel source. If you're doing keto and eating >50% calories from carbs, you're doing a severe disservice to your body and progress.

No.

1. Fat cannot produce glucose. (Technically, it can - the glycerol backbone of the tricacyl glycerol molecule can produce glucose, but it's a negligible amount and not nearly enough to feed the brain, red blood cells, certain kidney cells, etc..)

2. Prior to the agricultural revolution, if we did in fact live on < 30 g carbs / day (and I think you're probably right), protein certainly was a key fuel source, not just a building block. Protein is converted to glucose by our liver, and if not for protein (from diet or from muscle), you would die on a 30 g carb/day diet.

3. The idea that consuming a large amount of protein on a regular basis damages your organs (e.g. liver, kidney) is outdated. The idea came from the fact that people with end-stage renal disease (kidney failure) could not tolerate large amounts of protein, but in fact that's because their kidneys are shot. In a normal, healthy adult a high-protein diet won't harm your organs.

[obesebeast]

you would die on a 30 g carb/day diet

better tell those eskimos to have more variety in their diets

[Billy_The_Kid]

better tell those eskimos to have more variety in their diets

Why? They eat plenty of protein.

[94jettameowpsst]

Thanks for these great answers guys. I'll rep when I get back from the doctor. lol.

Also how long did it take you guys to get into ketosis? I was really sluggish and brain-foggy yesterday.
Should I continue taking my ECA stack?
I think I will go and buy some ketostix in a few days. I'll give it some time.


If you don't eat a lot of carbs to begin with, will it be faster for you to get into keto or slower?
I was never a huge carb eater, and before going into this diet, I was on a good 6 meal a day plan.
I had about 153g, usually less carbs a day.

I never thought I would miss carbs so much though. Today is a low carb day and I am loving it. Sorta.

What do you guys think about Sprout bread too? On Twin Peak's list, he has whole grain on his high carb day list. But says nothing about sprout bread.
So I'm eating sprout english muffin on my low carb day anyway, because it's made from sprout not grain. So idk?

You probably are in ketosis already but if not then probably tomorrow then. Eating less carbs or fasting the day before you want to start your diet along with drinking a lot of water will throw you in faster.
Take your stack.
Im not sure what Sprout Bread is.

Lastly, if you want to take advantage more from this diet dont carb up the first week, wait 2 or 3 before you have your carb up day. The foggyness will slow down some the longer you're doing it but try to keep up on cardio/lifting weights along with drinking a lot of water (cant stress that enough)


Good luck, get skinny

[want2gainmuscle]

I've read in 'the power of protein' best-seller that even the slightest amount of sugar will throw you out of ketosis mode for a few days. Is this true?

I just had a sip of milk that does in fact contain sugar..
Tell ya what, I'm feeling like ****e with this diet.. 3 days in.
Normal skim milk.

[MadeUnderground]

You probably are in ketosis already but if not then probably tomorrow then. Eating less carbs or fasting the day before you want to start your diet along with drinking a lot of water will throw you in faster.
Take your stack.
Im not sure what Sprout Bread is.

Lastly, if you want to take advantage more from this diet dont carb up the first week, wait 2 or 3 before you have your carb up day. The foggyness will slow down some the longer you're doing it but try to keep up on cardio/lifting weights along with drinking a lot of water (cant stress that enough)


Good luck, get skinny

Rep'd.

Thank you.

I find that I'm more likely to cheat if I don't have a plan ahead. So I'm going to stick with these meals and just eat them every day. Some days in different orders.
What do you guys think?

6 slices of lean white meat turkey
1tbsp flaxseed
If I'm still hungry which I doubt cause I'm hardly hungry in the morning, I'll eat a few egg whites

Caesar salad with white meat chicken (approx. 4 oz)
2 tbsp of caesar dressing (this dressing has only 2 carbs)

Tuna with 1 tbsp of mayo

1 cup of no fat cottage cheese and boiled or steamed broccoli

T-bone steak and broccoli
A marinade that I made up myself and have used it for years (prefer it over the other crap)
Olive oil + soy sauce + 3 garlic cloves.
(The soy sauce I use is wheatless so no carbs)

Randomly later.. 1 tbsp of peanut butter and maybe more steak if I'm hungry enough.

In conjunction with Casein powder before bed... whey with orange juice post work out (whey and juice both have carbs but people say you should do this).

Amino acid tablets, multivitamin and an ECA stack. (Except there's no E in it because apparently it's illegal/banned in my state).

This totals to 180g protein with the supplements... I'm not sure if that's too much in conjunction with the supps, because I'm supposed to be at 150g, but idk.
Fat: 62.5g
Cals: 1,536 (this is an estimation)

My stats are supposed to be, or at least I think
61g fat
120-180g protein
1,651 cals.


I don't think I'm calorie deficit enough but I'll tweak around with it. I'm just trying to get into ketosis, and then I'll concentrate more on taking off cals.

[MadeUnderground]

bump.

[94jettameowpsst]

thats not enough fat at all. If you're supposed to be eating 150g of protien you should be eating 150g of fat....since you're not eating carbs the fat is whats being utilized as your energy source. (hence the rapid weight loss from even inactive people)

Eat whole eggs, full fat dressings, all the applicable oils (flax, fish, olive, etc), full cuts of meat/chicken w/ the skin on...but try and stay away from milk products as they will throw you out of ketosis.

[user45522]

An apple has 33g of carbs. A banana has 30g of carbs. People were gathering fruits and vegetation long before we developed the necessary weapons to become hunters. Not saying humans didn't eat meat because they did feed off of already dead animals, but people have been eating protein/carbs/fats forever.



wat?

People have been using bows and arrows since the beginning, when we still lived in caves. Nevertheless, this isn't a debate forum. I weighted in today at 11lbs lighter since a week and a half ago. I have a question? What the hell is an ECA stack? And, once in Ketosis, should one continue to stay in it for extended periods, or not? Can one's body become immune to Ketosis? In other words is it more effective if you move out of it, then back into it over a long period?

[obesebeast]

ephedrine + caffeine + aspirin as a fat burner supplement

most designed fat burners are just caffeine pills with an ephedrine-esque thermogenic effect, the aspirin some debate isnt necessary but w/e...EC/A is just a cheap and effective "fat burner" if your diet is in order first and foremost

if you're doing a TKD(Targeted Ketogenic Diet) where you "target" your ~100 net carbs/day right around your workouts or front load your day with carbs, it shouldn't be enough to knock you out of ketosis. No carb refeed is needed.

however, if you're doing a CKD(Cyclical Ketogenic Diet), where you're eating 30-40g net carbs/day, most people spend 7-14 days at this rate of carb consumption before a refeed of carbs over a 24hr period.

from an experience standpoint, i've spent ~3 months total, in 1 month stints, with CKD plans. I find them very effective at overcoming plateaus and shedding unwanted bloating/water weight. The overall "fat loss" though, is no different from a more traditional diet. I, too, can lose up to 15lbs the first week on a CKD plan but that 15lbs is mostly water/items in my digestive system/glycogen stores emptying from the body and the net actually fat loss isn't as impressive as one is lead to believe. I've also done a targeted ketogenic diet for 2 weeks before becoming bored with it as well as a month long carb cycling and intermittent fasting plan. Now that was a hoot!

[MadeUnderground]

thats not enough fat at all. If you're supposed to be eating 150g of protien you should be eating 150g of fat....since you're not eating carbs the fat is whats being utilized as your energy source. (hence the rapid weight loss from even inactive people)

Eat whole eggs, full fat dressings, all the applicable oils (flax, fish, olive, etc), full cuts of meat/chicken w/ the skin on...but try and stay away from milk products as they will throw you out of ketosis.

Do I really have to eat all that fat?? I don't even know where I can eat that much fat!

I know that eating 6 meals a day is the most legit way to go, but I prefer eating every time I get hungry.. eating no more than 4 hours a part.
Today I think I ate about 4 or 5 meals. I'll still get into ketosis right and lose weight? I mainly want to get more strict on the 6 meal a day if I hit a plateau because it's nearly impossible for me to eat while at work. (Imagine me snacking on a large piece of steak while at a cash register.. and I work at a vegan/vegetarian grocery store no less, LOL).

Today... unless for the day all I eat is fat, I'm really low on that then. I'm probably low on protein as well. I didn't follow that plan at all because today was crazy.

I made that keto friendly pancake. Which made me extremely sick by the way. I'm sensitive to peanut butter so unfortunately I put too much in it... plus in dehydrated me so I had to drink 2 liters of water in 1 and a half hours and still felt weird.

Anyway in that pancake is 2 whole eggs, 2 tbsp of peanut butter, 1 scoop of casein powder.
Then I had a salad with chicken and caesar dressing.
Then for six hours I didn't eat because I took the longest nap known to man.
I woke up and had 6 slices of turkey and ... that's it. I think.

Now I'm eating ribeye steak with the olive oil, soy sauce and agave nectar, (4 carbs per tsp.) I put in two tsps.
So today, I had no carbs, but I am probably low on protein and fat. I'll try to find sometihng else to eat that is high in fat but I'm not sure what, if anyone has suggestions that would be swell.

Oh and what about raw milk? We only get milk straight from the cow, no processing done, and I know it's high in good fat but I'm afraid it has too many carbs? What do you guys think?

Do you think being low on protein and fat will make it slower for me to get into ketosis?

Thanks for all your help guys. It's been nice to have someone help me out because I've spent a long time confused because everyone follows different keto plans.


EDIT: Okay I don't think I can eat 150g of fat because that's 1,350 calories right there, and in order for me to lose weight I have to be between 1,717 and 1,210 or soish.
Do you think it would be enough if I just ate 100-123g of fat? Cause 123 is my LBM...

[ronniec01]

if you ate all your meals and need to add some extra fat grams quick just drink some olive oil it works everytime

[obesebeast]

optimally a keto diet would have macros of around 65F/5C/30P or ~ 1g fat per 1g protein you eat

to help me achieve this I use this following breakdown for each of my meals(however, I eat ~2400 cals/day 6 meals)

1.5 servings healthy fat source - 200-300 cals
1 serving lean protein - 100-120 cals
1 serving dark green veggies - 5-25 cals

Don't forget the veggies or you won't poop, at all. Carrots, corn, beans, peas, potatoes are not what _I_ consider vegetables either. Spinach, broccoli, squash, celery, cucumbers, leafy lettuces are my "dark greens". Spinach is king!

As far as dairy, you can eat cheeses, creams, butters. Milk, the real deal too, has lactose, a low GI sugar that will knock you out of keto. You want a nice keto friend treat? Grab some heavy cream and mix w/ 1 scoop whey powder.

4oz heavy cream - ~200 cals, 20g fat
1 scoop whey - ~100 cals, 25g protein

I use cup cake batter whey and when mixed with heavy cream tastes a lot like cake batter and has the same consistency. Chocolate powders taste like brownie batters...never tried any other flavors, can only assume they're not too bad. Just remember, milk fats are mostly saturated, not the best/healthiest source of fat. Mono/poly sources are much cleaner fuels and you'll feel much better dieting with mostly mono/poly sources vs dairy/animal/saturated fat sources.

Hope this helps!

[MadeUnderground]

optimally a keto diet would have macros of around 65F/5C/30P or ~ 1g fat per 1g protein you eat

to help me achieve this I use this following breakdown for each of my meals(however, I eat ~2400 cals/day 6 meals)

1.5 servings healthy fat source - 200-300 cals
1 serving lean protein - 100-120 cals
1 serving dark green veggies - 5-25 cals

Don't forget the veggies or you won't poop, at all. Carrots, corn, beans, peas, potatoes are not what _I_ consider vegetables either. Spinach, broccoli, squash, celery, cucumbers, leafy lettuces are my "dark greens". Spinach is king!

As far as dairy, you can eat cheeses, creams, butters. Milk, the real deal too, has lactose, a low GI sugar that will knock you out of keto. You want a nice keto friend treat? Grab some heavy cream and mix w/ 1 scoop whey powder.

4oz heavy cream - ~200 cals, 20g fat
1 scoop whey - ~100 cals, 25g protein

I use cup cake batter whey and when mixed with heavy cream tastes a lot like cake batter and has the same consistency. Chocolate powders taste like brownie batters...never tried any other flavors, can only assume they're not too bad. Just remember, milk fats are mostly saturated, not the best/healthiest source of fat. Mono/poly sources are much cleaner fuels and you'll feel much better dieting with mostly mono/poly sources vs dairy/animal/saturated fat sources.

Hope this helps!

Rep'd.

Thanks man, I appreciate it. I'm not going to eat one g of fat per one g of protein, though.
I did my calculations and that is too many calories for me.
What do you suppose I do about that?? Ignore it? Will I still lose fat? Cause hey, if I will, I'll eat all the fat in the world!

I'm off to go get some cream.

And on another note, milk the real stuff has enzymes that break down the lactose. I don't know if that makes a difference. I know it makes a difference for people with lactose intorelant, because they can drink raw milk because it still has the enzymes that breaks it down (I'm one of them).



EDIT: Well, I just bought some and I mixed it with 8 oz of heavy cream because I've been low on everything today.
672 cals, 75g of fat, and then I mixed it with one scoop so about 24g of protein. Tastes good.

I bought some string cheese too. I think what I'm going to do is eat 3-4 pieces of string cheese as 3 or 4 of my meals, then eat lots of vegetables and meat in my other two meals.

String cheese has a good level of protein, fat, and calories, and they're really easy to eat, so I can actually eat them while at work. Yay.

[obesebeast]

when i go keto i basically live off of eggs, olive oil, mixed nuts, & vegetables

Meal
3 whole eggs - 210 cal, 13.5g fat, 0g carbs, 21g protein
1T olive oil - 130 cal, 14g fat, 0g carbs, 0g protein
2 cups baby spinach - 20 cal, 0g fat, 0g net carbs, 2g protein

Meal
1.5oz mixed nuts - 250 cal, 24g fat, 4g net carbs, 9g protein
1 scoop whey/gemma - 103 cal, 0g fat, 1g net carbs, 25g protein
1 cup broccoli - 25 cal, 0g fat, 2g net carbs, 2g protein

You can also make stuff like chicken salad, omelettes, bacon stuff!, cheese/butter dressed vegetables

net carbs = total carbs - fiber - sugar alcohol - alcohol

drink vodka!