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  1. #61
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AndrewCa View Post
    Depletion workout is to make sure that your muscle are ready to soak up the carbs that you are eating on your carb up and use power your lifts throughout the week. IMO don't go over board on your carb up because you'll gain quite a bit of weight from it. i learn it the hard way and ate almost the entire loaf of whole wheat bread and had three glass of milk and i bloated like a goat.

    Myself I'm trying to go for only 120g of carbs this time around or maybe if my energy level is still good skip the carb up until the third week.

    But it also aids in muscle growth.
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  2. #62
    Pass The Refridgerator kudostojen's Avatar
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    I actually found it hard to carb up to the recommended amount. It's sound great and easy to do, but i went looking for food when i wasn't even hungry on Saturday night. When i was at the pub that night i had a big plate of nachos in from of me and i barely made a dent in it. lol. I just wasn't hungry.


    A loaf of bread and 3 glasses of milk. Holy crap. That's a lot of filling food.

    Petyyytran

    You should have a 25-50g carb meal 5hrs before your depletion workout and another 25-50g of carbs 2 hrs before the depletion workout. these are usually taken in as fruit. More carbs with your post work out shake. The amount of carbs pwo will depend on your weight, and another carb meal 2hrs later. Some people change this up a bit depending on their body. Like AndrewCa, you'll tweak this diet according to what your body does with it. Just remember to keep your fat low on carb ups.

    I can't remember exactly how it goes, this is only my second week. I will find the section in Lyle's book and post it on here when i get home tonight for you.

    Check out queloque's log. He's posted a lot of info regarding the CKD.
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  3. #63
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    Today my muscles feel pretty hard. Can I attribute it to the carb-up? Maybe.

    Protein intake above and beyond what reputable nutritionists say is "enough" won't boost muscle mass if glycogen stores are too low. On the other hand, if glycogen stores are full, chances of faster recovery and improved growth markedly increase."
    So, why not simply load up on carbs in hopes of getting huge? Because consuming too many carbs creates the potential of increasing bodyfat. Taking steps to ensure that carbs are stored in muscles rather than as fat is half the battle in building mass without turning into the Pillsbury Doughboy."

    This is how I see the logic of the large carb-up.

    Lets say you are nervous about eating too many carbs and you go easy and eat 2000 grams of carbs for your carb-up. Ok what about the carbs you burn for that day? How is 2000 grams of carb-up going to go into your muscle if you are burning 3000 calories for that day?

    So I see the logic of eating 3000-5000 grams of carbs during a carb-up. It not only covers the energy you burn during the carb-up but also the carbs needed to store to replace the muscle glycogens.

    You follow?
    Last edited by queloque; 06-29-2009 at 10:23 AM.
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  4. #64
    ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ peteyyytran's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    Today my muscles feel pretty hard. Can I attribute it to the carb-up? Maybe.

    Protein intake above and beyond what reputable nutritionists say is "enough" won't boost muscle mass if glycogen stores are too low. On the other hand, if glycogen stores are full, chances of faster recovery and improved growth markedly increase."
    So, why not simply load up on carbs in hopes of getting huge? Because consuming too many carbs creates the potential of increasing bodyfat. Taking steps to ensure that carbs are stored in muscles rather than as fat is half the battle in building mass without turning into the Pillsbury Doughboy."

    This is how I see the logic of the large carb-up.

    Lets say you are nervous about eating too many carbs and you go easy and eat 2000 grams of carbs for your carb-up. Ok what about the carbs you burn for that day? How is 2000 grams of carb-up going to go into your muscle if you are burning 3000 calories for that day?

    So I see the logic of eating 3000-5000 grams of carbs during a carb-up. It not only covers the energy you burn during the carb-up but also the carbs needed to store to replace the muscle glycogens.

    You follow?
    You burn 3000 calories in your workouts? That's alot. I calcd that I should be intaking at around 1800g of carbs on my carb loading days...
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  5. #65
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by peteyyytran View Post
    You burn 3000 calories in your workouts? That's alot. I calcd that I should be intaking at around 1800g of carbs on my carb loading days...
    No for the whole day the average body burns about 2500 calories just sitting around all day. Your heart beats, your body functions, you walk around. That burns calories. Thats based on your BMI. Throw in your workout routine and you are well over 3000 calories.
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  6. #66
    Pass The Refridgerator kudostojen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by peteyyytran View Post
    You burn 3000 calories in your workouts? That's alot. I calcd that I should be intaking at around 1800g of carbs on my carb loading days...
    I'm lucky enough that my job works me throughout the day. I've already climbed the 6 flights a few times. That doesn't count how many times/long i've been walking around this site. It lets me burn an extra 100-200 cals a day. Probably more, but it's better to be under than over.

    BTW, i just finished a ymmy sirloin steak with a little bit of cheese on it. Mmmmmmm..

    Have i mentioned that i love this diet. I think i have. About 20 times already. haha
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  7. #67
    Pass The Refridgerator kudostojen's Avatar
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    Talking

    Click on the link for daily macros. My fibrous carbs are not included, only my net. I've got some new protein powder with fibrous carbs.

    My cals are really low today. I just wasn't hungry. I had to force myself to eat my broccoli and i almost forgot my afternoon meal.

    Edit: Just want to add a note. I felt a little week in the gym (also a new program so that will feel different). I'm thinking it has to do with work today. I went up and down those FREAKEN STAIRS A LOT!!!. Mid afternoon i started to feel a little shaky. That's when i forced myself to eat the broccoli and pepperoni. I also had some issues with a worker on site today. He looked at me and said "fukc you" and then walked out. So that got me riled up (**** like that takes a lot of energy to deal with). I kept my cool with him, but now he's not allowed to come back to our site and work. BTW, i'm a safety officer so i'm not the most popular person on site already. lol.

    Here's my workout

    Quads:

    Leg press -
    140x10
    140x10
    125x10
    125x9

    Leg Extensions -
    60x10
    60x10
    60x8
    60x7

    Squats -
    60x10
    60x10
    60x10
    60x10

    Hams:

    Leg Press (Feet wide) -
    125x10
    125x9
    125x8
    125x7

    Leg Curls -
    90x10
    80x10
    80x9
    80x7

    Dead Lifts -
    60x10
    60x10
    60x10
    60x8

    Abs:

    Swiss Ball - 2 super sets
    8 then 15 sec on the negative on 9 and 10 x 2 (20reps, 4 slow on the negative) Followed by leg raises. This one burns. I love it.

    Leg raises -
    16
    13

    Calves:

    Leg Press -
    125x10-toes in x 5-toes out x 5
    125x10-toes in x 5-toes out x 4
    110x10-toes in x 5-toes out x 3

    I did some pushups and chinups thinking i had some energy left. Nope. None. I got 2 sets of each in and I was bagged by the time i left the gym.
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    Last edited by kudostojen; 06-29-2009 at 09:19 PM.
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  8. #68
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kudostojen View Post
    Click on the link for daily macros. My fibrous carbs are not included, only my net. I've got some new protein powder with fibrous carbs.

    My cals are really low today. I just wasn't hungry. I had to force myself to eat my broccoli and i almost forgot my afternoon meal.
    Wow, same here. i just didn't have the urge to eat. I had to force myself to eat something. I was at 1000 calories by 9pm this evening. I just wasn't hungry.
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  9. #69
    Pass The Refridgerator kudostojen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    Wow, same here. i just didn't have the urge to eat. I had to force myself to eat something. I was at 1000 calories by 9pm this evening. I just wasn't hungry.
    I know. It's scary. You don't want to go too low but at the same time it's not really a bad thing either. I'd rather have to make myself eat than always be hungry.
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  10. #70
    Pass The Refridgerator kudostojen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by peteyyytran View Post
    You burn 3000 calories in your workouts? That's alot. I calcd that I should be intaking at around 1800g of carbs on my carb loading days...
    Sorry about the wait. Here's some info from the book.

    Getting out of ketosis: beginning the carb-load

    To shift the body out of ketosis and toward a more anabolic state, dieters will need to begin
    consuming carbohydrates approximately 5 hours prior to the final workout. At this time, a small
    amount of carbohydrates, perhaps 25 to 50 grams, can be consumed along with some protein and
    unsaturated fats, to begin the upregulation of liver enzymes. The type of carbohydrate needed
    has not been studied and individuals are encouraged to experiment with different types and
    amounts of foods.
    Approximately 2 hours before the final workout, a combination of glucose and fructose
    (with optional glutamine) should be consumed, to refill liver glycogen. Once again, specific
    amounts have not been determined but 25 to 50 grams total carbohydrate would seem a good
    place to start.


    Woke up in Ketosis. My mouth is dry and tasting gross.
    Last edited by kudostojen; 06-30-2009 at 05:57 AM.
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  11. #71
    Pass The Refridgerator kudostojen's Avatar
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    Weekend carb up:

    The level of glycogen resynthesis depends on the duration of the carb-up and the amount of
    carbohydrates consumed. In 24 hours, glycogen levels of 100-110 mmol/kg can be achieved as
    long as 10 grams carb/kg lean body mass are consumed. During the second 24 hours of carbing,
    an intake of 5 grams/kg lean body mass is recommended.
    4. During the first 24 hours, the macronutrient ratios should be 70% carbs, 15% protein and 15%
    fat. During the second 24 hours, the ratios are roughly 60% carbs, 25% protein and 15% fat.
    5. As long as sufficient amounts of carbohydrate are consumed, the type and timing of intake is
    relatively less important. However, some data suggests the higher glycogen levels can be
    attained over 24 hours, if higher Glycemic Index (GI) carbs are consumed. If carbing is continued
    past 24 hours, lower GI foods should be consumed.


    Lyle McDonald
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  12. #72
    Registered User AndrewCa's Avatar
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    thanks for the information! looks like my carb up is going to be better this time around!
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  13. #73
    Pass The Refridgerator kudostojen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AndrewCa View Post
    thanks for the information! looks like my carb up is going to be better this time around!
    glad to hear it. the carb ups are a little tougher than i thought they would be. I don't think i got enough carbs this weekend. I tried. I really did, but it's harder than it sounds. You really do have to eat every few hours to get all those carbs in.

    Nothing like going to the store, reading labels and being disappointed there's not enough carbs per serving. lol
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  14. #74
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kudostojen View Post
    glad to hear it. the carb ups are a little tougher than i thought they would be. I don't think i got enough carbs this weekend. I tried. I really did, but it's harder than it sounds. You really do have to eat every few hours to get all those carbs in.

    Nothing like going to the store, reading labels and being disappointed there's not enough carbs per serving. lol
    I second that. Its hard to do it all at once or just in a couple of meals. Especially if you want to keep it low in fat or I could chow down on a few big macs and call it a day.

    How is your appetite today? Mine is still low.
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post

    How is your appetite today? Mine is still low.
    Still a little low, but not as bad as yesterday.

    I've got a BBQ to go to after my workout today so i'm trying to keep my cals low, so i can eat there. I think it will mostly be hot dogs but i'm not sure. If it's hot dogs only, i will wait till i get home and have some salmon.

    I've got another BBQ tomorrow at my mom's for Canada Day. yay!!! I keep telling my mom i'm not going to eat the bread or salads. Maybe an iceberg lettuce salad but that's it. I told her steaks and some smookies. Mmmmm...the cheese filled ones. She keeps telling me to make an exception. lol...i told her i can't, it will kick me out of ketosis. She just rolls her eyes.

    Back to no appetite. I don't want that to go away. It keeps the cals low and you can burn almost 1/2 pound of fat in one day. Nothing wrong with that.
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    Click on link to see food for the day. Only net carbs are showing.

    I guessed on the hot dogs. I don't know where they came from but i had to eat them. It had been an hour and a half since my work out and pwo shake, i was soooo hungry. It tied me over till i got home. But, cals are low again today, so that's good.

    Tomorrow is Canada Day and we're doing a big BBQ at my mom's place. I get to buy some of the food, so that's a bonus. I'm splurging and having some smokies.

    I was in the gym for way too long today. I lifted for an hour and a half. That's too long. I need to fix my upper body routine.

    I did back, shoulders, chest, bis and tris. It's funny because my tris were so swollen when i was done, i had never seen them that big. My muscles have swelled before of course but i had some serious size today. I couldn't stop looking in the mirror at the gym. lol
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  17. #77
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    Week 2, day 4

    I started back on the keto on Sunday, so it's been 4 days since i've had any carbs.

    This week is looking really good. My carbs have been under 20g, cals low, and checked ketostix last night and it showed trace amounts. I had dry mouth yesterday morning and nothing i did would make it go away, by mid morning it was gone. A headache till mid afternoon so i'm on the right track. The side effects of keto have decreased since last week.

    My legs and ass still hurt from Monday's workout and my back and bis are aching today from yesterdays workout. . And i was thinking i didn't work hard enough. I always think that after a workout.

    I'm feeling really small today. My weight hasn't changed, i know i should've waited till Friday, but i couldn't help it.
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    Originally Posted by kudostojen View Post
    I started back on the keto on Sunday, so it's been 4 days since i've had any carbs.

    This week is looking really good. My carbs have been under 20g, cals low, and checked ketostix last night and it showed trace amounts. I had dry mouth yesterday morning and nothing i did would make it go away, by mid morning it was gone. A headache till mid afternoon so i'm on the right track. The side effects of keto have decreased since last week.

    My legs and ass still hurt from Monday's workout and my back and bis are aching today from yesterdays workout. . And i was thinking i didn't work hard enough. I always think that after a workout.

    I'm feeling really small today. My weight hasn't changed, i know i should've waited till Friday, but i couldn't help it.

    Same here. Got back into Ketosis late last night after 2 days with no/low carbs. Stepped on scale this morning and 4 pounds heavier than past saturday.

    Possible cause:
    - Heavy carb-up
    - Creatine before workouts

    Both store water.
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    Same here. Got back into Ketosis late last night after 2 days with no/low carbs. Stepped on scale this morning and 4 pounds heavier than past saturday.

    Possible cause:
    - Heavy carb-up
    - Creatine before workouts

    Both store water.
    I'm hoping by Friday, my weight will be less than last Friday's weigh in. Just 1lb would make me happy.
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    Originally Posted by kudostojen View Post
    I'm hoping by Friday, my weight will be less than last Friday's weigh in. Just 1lb would make me happy.
    Did you read my recent post in my log. More interesting info about glycogens.
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    Thanks for posting the info! I will definitely read a lot of this when I get near my first carb up in another week! *Today is my official one week on keto but I don't want to do a carb up on a Wednesday * One thing i am still kind of dumbfounded by is exactly what is a "depletion" workout? Is that like an all around body workout or something? Also it said 20-50 grams of carbs before your "depletion" workout but then it says 2 hours before it get some fruits in... kind of redundant... Or does it mean that 20-50g of carbs SHOULD be from fruits?
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    Originally Posted by peteyyytran View Post
    Thanks for posting the info! I will definitely read a lot of this when I get near my first carb up in another week! *Today is my official one week on keto but I don't want to do a carb up on a Wednesday * One thing i am still kind of dumbfounded by is exactly what is a "depletion" workout? Is that like an all around body workout or something? Also it said 20-50 grams of carbs before your "depletion" workout but then it says 2 hours before it get some fruits in... kind of redundant... Or does it mean that 20-50g of carbs SHOULD be from fruits?
    Depletion workout meaning depleting the last bit of your muscle glycogens that are stored in your muscle. You will need those 20-50 grams of carbs to help you acomplish this because by the end of the week your muscles should be pretty spent. And once you deplete your muscle glycogens you do your carb-up for the weekend to replenish your muscle glycogens for muscle growth, healing, and energy for the next week.

    The fruit 2 hours prior is to replenish your liver glycogen levels. You liver uses sucrose in the form of glucose/fructose combined that comes from fruits, primarily berry fruits or tree fruits. I prefer berry fruits because I can make some awesome drinks from it and also honey. Dont confuse corn fructose syrup or sweetners with what is in fruits because fructose syrup that sweetens pretty much everything sweet we eat or drink is 98% fructose.

    liver glycogen store is usually between 50 and 100 g, containing enough glucose to satisfy the brain's requirements for up to 24 hours. Basically, the liver feeds the brain.
    Last edited by queloque; 07-01-2009 at 02:59 PM.
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    Did you read my recent post in my log. More interesting info about glycogens.
    that was a good post. There are so many opinions regarding Creatine. I've never had a problem with creatine, it's always helped me with my training, giving me that extra push in the gym.
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    July 1 meals. Click on link

    95% of my food was eaten out. I did the best i could with the guessing for yesterday's meals.
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    your last 3 meal post you have absolutely no fiber. Get some fiber in your body.
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    your last 3 meal post you have absolutely no fiber. Get some fiber in your body.
    haha... i was just coming back to add the broccoli salad i had yesterday.

    The only post without fiber is the one i put up today. Remember, i eat broccoli everyday (carrots day before yesterday) and my muscle max has fiber in it as well.

    Should i add a fiber supplement?
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    Originally Posted by kudostojen View Post
    haha... i was just coming back to add the broccoli salad i had yesterday.

    The only post without fiber is the one i put up today. Remember, i eat broccoli everyday (carrots day before yesterday) and my muscle max has fiber in it as well.

    Should i add a fiber supplement?
    oh. ok. The goal from many sources suggest 24 grams a day. Pretty hard to do in keto sometimes. But nuts have a lot. Avocado has a ton, almost half your daily allowance at about 12 grams. The most I found so far was in the Hemp Protein at 14.
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    oh. ok. The goal from many sources suggest 24 grams a day. Pretty hard to do in keto sometimes. But nuts have a lot. Avocado has a ton, almost half your daily allowance at about 12 grams. The most I found so far was in the Hemp Protein at 14.
    oh, i don't think i get quite that much. I will get about 18g a day. I will try some avocados and maybe get a supplement. I try to eat a lot of broccoli and i have a big bag of flax seeds. I should ground them and add them to my food. that will add quite a bit of fiber.

    I hate veggies. yuk...
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    Originally Posted by kudostojen View Post
    oh, i don't think i get quite that much. I will get about 18g a day. I will try some avocados and maybe get a supplement. I try to eat a lot of broccoli and i have a big bag of flax seeds. I should ground them and add them to my food. that will add quite a bit of fiber.

    I hate veggies. yuk...
    My guacamole dish is awesome. Recipe is simple and standard but it makes avocado a lot more enjoyable.
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    Major headache today, and it's getting worse. I might actually have to take painkillers to make it through the day


    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    My guacamole dish is awesome. Recipe is simple and standard but it makes avocado a lot more enjoyable.

    Is the guacamole recipe in the keto forum or is it yours?
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