9/11 Truth on Mainstream Media

[nutsy54]

1. How many people would have known? Well, aside from the people who perpetrated the whole thing, and the people they hired/ordered to carry it out, I doubt many people would need to be made aware.

What do you mean "aside from"?!

The list of people who were actually needed to "perpetrate" everything that's been accused is the whole point - because that list would have to be huge. And every time we turn around in this thread, another batch of names gets added (such as the foreign intelligence services that just popped up).

The "answer" gets more and more wildly complex every time a new question has to be answered, but you guys still think that a massive global conspiracy of treason and mass murder makes the most sense...

And we still haven't factored in everyone who'd also be required for the Pentagon and Pennsylvania operations - since all of that would clearly need to fall under the same massive, orchestrated plan.

[NDame616]

[Rex2007]

Wow, it's like you ignored every link I provided.

- It didn't fall in 6.5 seconds
- Where else is a building supposed to go, except for straight down? Gravity only works in one direction.
- The unique design of that building clearly would have resulted in the collapse that was seen, given the structural damage that had taken place (do you even know how that's building's construction differed from others in the area - and why?)

You just spew false or exaggerated statements that support your position - do you actually realize they're lies, or have you been fooled into believing them?

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics...d_Trade_Center

-yes it did fall in 6.5 seconds. one only needs to time it with their watch. the 6.5 second claim has NEVER been refuted. period.

-if gravity blows buildings up to kingdomcome, im surprised i stand up in the morning. why isnt gravity pulling buildings down all over the world? gravity didnt make the building implode. gravity didnt blowout all of the steel boxcolumns all at once. gravity didnt turn concrete into dust while still in the air!

unique design? you mean like built with jenga blocks? it was a steel framed skyscrapper. it would hold the same integrity as any other steel skyscrapper!

[nutsy54]

-yes it did fall in 6.5 seconds. one only needs to time it with their watch. the 6.5 second claim has NEVER been refuted. period.

Watch the video in the link I provided.

-if gravity blows buildings up to kingdomcome, im surprised i stand up in the morning. why isnt gravity pulling buildings down all over the world? gravity didnt make the building implode. gravity didnt blowout all of the steel boxcolumns all at once. gravity didnt turn concrete into dust while still in the air!

I didn't say gravity blew up the building. I said gravity caused it to come straight down during the collapse - which was something the previous poster pointed out as "proof" that it had to be a controlled demolition.

unique design? you mean like built with jenga blocks? it was a steel framed skyscrapper. it would hold the same integrity as any other steel skyscrapper!

So, you don't actually know what you're talking about in regards to this building. Just ignore anything that doesn't support your agenda, and make up the rest...

Vincent Dunn, a retired deputy FDNY fire chief and author of the textbook, The Collapse of Burning Buildings, spoke with Popular Mechanics and explained the how the unique design of 7 World Trade Center, which was built on top of a Con Ed substation, made it extra vulnerable to the stresses imposed by the falling debris and fires on 9/11.

"Instead of the vertical beams terminating in the foundation, many of them terminate in these broad, horizontal trusses that span the width of the building. Because the building was basically hollow from the sixth floor down. It was built over this big Con Ed substation. So those trusses carry these enormous loads far, far higher than we would see in a typical skyscraper. The combination of the falling debris - which greatly stressed the structure - raised the strain on these trusses. And then these fires that were fed in one case by a pressurized diesel fuel line, that raged for seven hours - and the current thinking of the engineers who investigated is more than enough to explain the collapse of the building. And in fact when those trusses failed, what you would've seen was exactly what we did see, which is the building almost collapsing from the inside first."

[ilikebeer]

Wow, it's like you ignored every link I provided.

- It didn't fall in 6.5 seconds
- Where else is a building supposed to go, except for straight down? Gravity only works in one direction.
- The unique design of that building clearly would have resulted in the collapse that was seen, given the structural damage that had taken place (do you even know how that's building's construction differed from others in the area - and why?)

You just spew false or exaggerated statements that support your position - do you actually realize they're lies, or have you been fooled into believing them?

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics...d_Trade_Center

watch this quick vid

[kraftpb]

Anyone who is discerning enough can see that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated to station troops and bases around Iran to try and deter them from building nuclear weapons and possibly to stage an invasion if all other options fail. If Iran builds a nuclear weapon, they will effectively control all the oil in the gulf. If they can achieve this, then they control the world's finances (cheap oil is quickly running dry).

Rumsfeld and crew were all tied to Saddam and the Iran-Iraq war in the 80's but no one really used to hear about this until recently; despite the proxy war Iran and America/Israel have been fighing for the past two and a half decades. I don't think many of you see the implications of Iran having a nuke, but when all the economies of the western world depend on oil for trade, transport and all commerce.. let's just say that Iran could really **** **** up for us if they get nukes..

[nutsy54]

watch this quick vid

"Pull" - to remove firefighters and prevent any more loss of life when they know a building can't be saved.

Hell, "pull" isn't even used in the demolition industry except to reference small (few story) buildings which are literally pulled over with cables.

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics...d_Trade_Center

[NDame616]

All the people who would have to remain quiet for this to happen is quoted below. Keep in mind, all of these guys had to be big time Republicans, because if one Democrat found out about this they would tell the world and cripple the Republican's for decades and decades.

So, here is all the Republicans who had to work with this, and keep it quiet:

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.

-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples? statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...

Conspiracy theorists bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the article?s context to make it seem like the firefighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Artic...y.cfm?Section=
OnlineArticles&SubSe%20ction=Display&PUBLICATION_I D=
25&ARTICLE_ID=131225

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Artic...nlineArticles&
SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID=13 0026

Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government?s next mass murder than come out and expose this.

-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]

-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...

-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?

-All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...

-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won?t say anything.]

-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...

-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.

-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.

-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.

-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.

-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones? work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?

-Structure Magazine who published a report saying the collapse of WTC 7 may have been due to one column failing.

-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation?s history. Why? No clue...

-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.

-NORAD

-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists say never existed.

-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.

-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines (Pentagon)

-United Airlines (Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes

-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"

-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.

Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...

Update:

A common excuse for no one coming out who was part of this so called 9/11 conspiracy is they fear death. If you analyze the argument carefully you realize they are debunking themselves. Why would even people in the military be more fearful of exposing this than the common conspiracy theorists behind a computer monitor? Either they don't believe what they're saying or they actually think they are more fearless than the thousands of others who would have had to be "in on it". As if people in the CIA or FBI couldn't figure out how to get the message out if they wanted to without exposing who they are. People, dates, places, memos and other evidence could easily be disseminated to the public without exposing who they are. The only reason they claim the people are paralyzed with fear is because they have too in order for the conspiracy story to work.

http://www.debunking911.com/massivect.htm

[nutsy54]

Anyone who is discerning enough can see that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated to station troops and bases around Iran to try and deter them from building nuclear weapons and possibly to stage an invasion if all other options fail.

Yes, because an incredibly complicated conspiracy of treason and mass murder, followed by spending hundreds of billions on multi-year wars in two countries, is much easier than a few well-aimed cruise missiles.

Really, these are the answers that actually make sense to you guys? (Or was that a sarcastic post)...

[ilikebeer]

It wasn't demolished "to dust", but you can ignore that since it doesn't support what you want to believe...
You can keep saying "that is a fact" all day long, but it doesn't really make it a fact.

WTC7 was a seriously damaged building with long-burning fires inside. Those are some actual facts.

http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_damage.html
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
http://www.debunking911.com/WTC72.htm

your sources are extremely laughable. ive read just about everything trying to debunk 9/11 as an inside job and i come up with nothing reasonable. i bet you havent even watched or listened to the other side of things. you should watch Loose Change

go here http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...59008768610598

and then come back and if you still feel the same way then we can debate.

oh yeah and check out this mans story (shorter vid)

[fenixzona]

Keep telling yourself that, little guy.

Haahahahaahahahahahahaha!!! Fool.

[nutsy54]

your sources are extremely laughable. ive read just about everything trying to debunk 9/11 as an inside job and i come up with nothing reasonable. i bet you havent even watched or listened to the other side of things. you should watch Loose Change

Should I watch the first Loose Change? Or the second one, where even they had to ignore some of their previously "proven" accusations? (But, really, believe everything else we have to say...)

[fenixzona]

I don't think it's a massive global conspiracy of treason and mass murder...it's just our government engaging in some domestic terrorism to alter public opinion. They've done it before, and it's pretty obvious they did it here.

And there probably wouldn't have been that many people involved in it.

Hey genius, in case you have not noticed, they don't need public opinion to wage wars. They don't need shyt from Joe American. Get your heads out of your asses guys.

[Rex2007]

Watch the video in the link I provided.
I didn't say gravity blew up the building. I said gravity caused it to come straight down during the collapse - which was something the previous poster pointed out as "proof" that it had to be a controlled demolition.
So, you don't actually know what you're talking about in regards to this building. Just ignore anything that doesn't support your agenda, and make up the rest...

it starts timing it from the collapse of the penthouse, THEN wtc7. that is the wrong way to time it. AFTER the penthouse falls, the entire building collapses in 6.5 seconds.

if what you say about the substation is true, why did it take 7 hours for the building to fall? so fast and all at once? is this substation claim in the new wtc7 NIST report that took 7 years to come out?

[nutsy54]

And there probably wouldn't have been that many people involved in it.

Start compiling everything that allegedly occurred that day (and in the preceding and following days/weeks/months), then try to prove it could have been done with the knowledge and actions of only a few people.

It's easily hundreds, probably thousands, and that number grows every time the CT'ers need to explain a new discrepancy in their theory.

[NDame616]

I don't think it's a massive global conspiracy of treason and mass murder...it's just our government engaging in some domestic terrorism to alter public opinion. They've done it before, and it's pretty obvious they did it here.

And there probably wouldn't have been that many people involved in it.

But, that's eactly what it is if it is a supposed conspiracy. You can't have a small time group pull this off. The sheer numbers of people and money involved make it beyond massive

In terms of people involved and affected:
Small conspiracy: the government had something to do with JFK's death (one guy gets killed, a handful involved)

huge massive worldwide conspiracy: 9/11.....killed thousands and would've involved thousands of people across the world.

[ilikebeer]

"Pull" - to remove firefighters and prevent any more loss of life when they know a building can't be saved.

Hell, "pull" isn't even used in the demolition industry except to reference small (few story) buildings which are literally pulled over with cables.

http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics...d_Trade_Center

lol wow is this the only source you give? what makes you think that website is any more truth than the inside job websites?

oh and by the way, that site and you are wrong on the term pull it.

watch this video starting at 3:50 if you want to and watch the rest of the vid. COMPLETELY debunks popular mechanics with proof

[kraftpb]

Yes, because an incredibly complicated conspiracy of treason and mass murder, followed by spending hundreds of billions on multi-year wars in two countries, is much easier than a few well-aimed cruise missiles.

Really, these are the answers that actually make sense to you guys? (Or was that a sarcastic post)...

Well unfortunately a few cruise missile won't work on Iran because Iran has a few missiles of its own too.. and they can take direct aim anywhere in the Middle East including Israel. How is America fighting Russia nowadays? All by proxy. Georgia, Slovakia, Poland are being used to build missile defense systems. The old cruise missiles and away we go tactic doesn't work nowadays. Someone who claims to know so much about the military such as yourself should know this otherwise why not aim a few cruise missiles at North Korea over whats happened this week?

[fenixzona]

Yes, they need public opinion to support the kinds of changes they made, and they had it for a long time.

really, did you vote for the wars or the patriot act? I know I was not given the opportunity.

[fenixzona]

I didn't say it would be a few, but it's certainly not hundreds or thousands.


I don't think it was a huge massive worldwide conspiracy.

Keep posting because you are making those who think like you look even more stupid than they already seem.

[kraftpb]

I dont understand why so many think that this would be impossible to pull off. You do realize that the best intelligence agencies in the world are behind this. If we were able to put a man on the moon in the 60's, then how is orchestrating an attack and keeping it a secret so hard to believe. This quote,i believe, describes the situation perfectly:

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
-Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag

[nutsy54]

if what you say about the substation is true, why did it take 7 hours for the building to fall? so fast and all at once? is this substation claim in the new wtc7 NIST report that took 7 years to come out?

Huh? Now it's a "claim" that a large Con Ed substation was underneath WTC-7, which required a unique design and support structure in the lower floors?

Seriously, it's like you're not even paying attention to the information, links, or facts provided, because your questions make absolutely no sense.

Debris from the main towers caused significant damage to WTC-7.
Ongoing fires further weakened the structure.
When one support subsequently failed, the rest immediately followed.

This is very specifically addressed in sections 5.6 and 5.7 here:
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

And generally discussed here:
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%...se%20Final.pdf

And, yes, the final NIST report very clearly describes how physical and fire damage was the likely cause of the collapse that occured:
http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf

[gobanor]

Exactly...that's my impression. The brainwashed government sheep are saying "omg it must have taken thousands, probably millions of people to carry out this huge gigantic massive worldwide conspiracy lol!"

You must be a pretty smart guy. Seeing the conspiracy that most of the population doesn't.

What would you say allows you to understand the conspiracy that other people don't possess. We all have the same information. How do you know that your judgement is correct?

[ilikebeer]

You must be a pretty smart guy. Seeing the conspiracy that most of the population doesn't.

What would you say allows you to understand the conspiracy that other people don't possess. We all have the same information. How do you know that your judgement is correct?

we all have the same information? lol. people who are smart will end up doing their own research to decide things for themselves instead of just listening to the masses provide their "information" to the world. do you even know who owns the media?

[gobanor]

we all have the same information? lol. people who are smart will end up doing their own research to decide things for themselves instead of just listening to the masses provide their "information" to the world. do you even know who owns the media?

Oh. Did you collect the data yourself? Or are just repeating what you read on the internet?

[nutsy54]

I dont understand why so many think that this would be impossible to pull off. You do realize that the best intelligence agencies in the world are behind this. If we were able to put a man on the moon in the 60's, then how is orchestrating an attack and keeping it a secret so hard to believe.

The steady number of leaks that occur on every imaginable topic are what make it impossible to believe that a wildly complex conspiracy of treason and mass murder could be planned, coordinated, and pulled off without a single involved person ever mentioning a word about it.

A President gets a blow job, or some moron Soldiers do dumb **** in a prison, and it's front-page news around the world. But this is maintained an absolute secret for nearly eight years? You honestly believe there are that many psychotic and traitorous Americans working in/with the federal government (or whoever you believe "really" conducted it)?

[ilikebeer]

Debris from the main towers caused significant damage to WTC-7.
Ongoing fires further weakened the structure.
When one support subsequently failed, the rest immediately followed.

This is very specifically addressed in sections 5.6 and 5.7 here:
http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch5.pdf

And generally discussed here:
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/WTC%20Part%...se%20Final.pdf

And, yes, the final NIST report very clearly describes how physical and fire damage was the likely cause of the collapse that occured:
http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf

lol you believe thats what happened? have you seen the video? are you aware no other buildings that were close to the twin towers collapsed? are you aware that no buildings have ever completely collapsed in such manor from a fire, let alone 3 all in one day?

oh and im chuckling at your dot gov links as we speak. fema for proof? you are a laugh man.

[ilikebeer]

What a surprise, you believe the official government story of what happened.

this.

[gobanor]

What a surprise, you believe the official government story of what happened.

What makes you believe one side of this so strongly and reject the other entirely?

[ilikebeer]

What makes you believe one side of this so strongly and reject the other entirely?

rationalized thinking with hours of research