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05-05-2009, 08:56 PM #61
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05-05-2009, 09:00 PM #62
most wwe stats ive seen show an 'average' ppv in the 200-250k buys area. jones did 500k against trinidad who was the bigger name at that time, and 225k with calzaghe... against Hanshaw(despite a PPV price of 29.95) drew 25k.
I'm a huge RJJ fan, but lesnar was a bigger draw and as a wrestler with over ayear of standup experience, a much more legitimate fighter than RJJ with boxing and 0 ground game
RJJ v. Silva is what Dana said... a one-time sale that has the potential to harm the UFC and MMA for years to come. not worth it for a one-time sale that they could easily reach with a strong card anyway
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05-05-2009, 09:02 PM #63
Well lets restart this.
Lets not bring up Lesnar w/UFC into this. Were talking about Lesnar Pre UFC. RJJ hasn't had the oppertunity to fight in the UFC, so it is not fare to compare them.
The WWE isn't a 1 star show. Yet with Lesnar along other big names, most of their PPVs did not outsell RJJ/Tarver III and RJJ/Trinidad.
Boxing on the other hand, is a 1 fight show. No one knows who else is fighting on boxing cards except for the main event. That is what everyone pays for. Pro Wrestling has up to 3 main events that people would actually shelf out money for. MMA usually has 2. Boxing is only one.
So, at the very least if you think RJJ isn't a bigger draw than Pre UFC Lesnar, would you atleast say they are close?Access the gun's off the earth axis
Axis of evil, the eagle will leave your hat split
Ruck flow is like "**** you, Gawd"
I don't wanna rhyme, I need a construction job
- Sean Price
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05-05-2009, 09:02 PM #64
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05-05-2009, 09:02 PM #65
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05-05-2009, 09:03 PM #66
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05-05-2009, 09:03 PM #67
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05-05-2009, 09:04 PM #68
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05-05-2009, 09:04 PM #69
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05-05-2009, 09:05 PM #70
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05-05-2009, 09:07 PM #71
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05-05-2009, 09:07 PM #72
sure I have if you read my posts
I'll give it again though, for the 3rd time.
1) Obviously its a win for RJJ, its easy money with no downside
2) for the UFC, it MAY get some pretty good numbers, however see #3 for downside
3) For Silva, it's no win. If he wins and doesnt throw punches the entire fight, he beat a washed up, aged fighter in a sport RJJ had no training in. If he loses, he's done as a sell
4) for MMA, its much the same...There's NO upside to Silva winning b/c of RJJ's age and status. If he loses, it damages the entire sport with the typical misc argument that any washed up boxer would own a top MMA fighter
5) if they put on a UFC-100 type card, they'd do just as many buys as silva-rjj would, especially given RJJ's status and Silva's last 2 fights
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05-05-2009, 09:08 PM #73
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05-05-2009, 09:08 PM #74
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05-05-2009, 09:10 PM #75
No one really in the MMA world is going to look down at the UFC for not allowing Silva to take the fight lol, and Dana just doesn't want to pay RJJ an extremely huge amount of money to fight in the octagon, cuz you know RJJ is goign to ask for a lot!
"Modern man is conditioned to expect instant gratification but any success or triumph realized quickly, with only marginal effort is necessarily shallow. Meaningful achievement takes time, hard work, persistence, patience, proper intent and constant self-awareness. The path to such success is punctuated by failure, consolidation and renewed effort. Personal reconstruction is art." - MFT
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05-05-2009, 09:10 PM #76
UFC, Boxing and Pro Wrestling are all marketed differently. UFC markets their undercard fighters better than Boxing Promos do (except for the very top talent obviously).
Boxing is widely stretched over multiple powerful promotions. It is hard to follow the under card fighters. There are so many weight classes, so many cross promotions and of course - the international barrier produces alot of 'no names'.
Pro Wrestling is easier to follow. WWE has multiple shows going on every week. Due to the fact that the WWE has plotlines, they can produce character development. WWE also has a limited roster and a fair amount of them get good exposure.
UFC is some where in the middle. UFC is marketed very well. UFC has a very limited roster and they obviously do not cross promote. In general, I would say that it is just easier to follow. I don't see how that is so insane, since MMA has one Super Promotion while Boxing has 4 promotions with equal power.
Basically what I am saying. If you take out the Main Event (the very very last bout, not co main event) of a Wrestling match and an MMA match - I think that they will not be as critically wounded as the very last match in a Boxing fight. Is that a fair assumption?Last edited by Mrs Grudge; 05-05-2009 at 09:13 PM.
Access the gun's off the earth axis
Axis of evil, the eagle will leave your hat split
Ruck flow is like "**** you, Gawd"
I don't wanna rhyme, I need a construction job
- Sean Price
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05-05-2009, 09:11 PM #77
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05-05-2009, 09:13 PM #78
uh, no. The UFC never asked for this fight, nor even considered it. RJJ and Silva brought the idea and were shot down. The ufc didnt "back" themselves into ANYTHING
to back yourself into a corner, you have to do something first.
for example:
if I go to my boss tomorrow and give an argument for why I deserve a raise, and get shot down, he's not "backed into a corner" to give one to me or to lose face
I independently thought up an idea, flew it by the boss, and got shot down
exact same scenario
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05-05-2009, 09:14 PM #79
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05-05-2009, 09:16 PM #80
obviously, but I won't make the stretch that the ONLY draw on a boxing card is the main event, while the ENTIRE card for WWE is a draw
i grewup loving wwe, and usually could care less about several matches on undercard
I grew up so-so on boxing, and many times had at least one other match i wanted to see
with UFC, its very well done to wanna see multiple fighters for me, but then again I'm a big fan.....some of my friends who come over to see the 'big names' could care less about undercards, and only come out if a name like Couture, Lesnar, Liddell, etc is fighting
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05-05-2009, 09:17 PM #81
Sure they did. By not accepting the fight, they backed themselves in the corner. That's how. It's basically like saying:
"We think our fighter might end up losing this fight, so we're not going to take it."
When both fighters want the fight, and the UFC shoots it down, they've made themselves look weak. If they take the fight, there's a chance their fighter might lose. If he wins, he beats up a forty year old man. The UFC loses all the way around here. That's how they've backed themselves into a corner. But I'm sure you'll find some way to disagree with me.
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05-05-2009, 09:17 PM #82
I still think that RJJ is a bigger name than Pre UFC Brock Lesnar. If not, I would say they are some what comparable. Were getting a little too off topic nao anyhoot so I'm gonna step off here and take my battles else where.
Access the gun's off the earth axis
Axis of evil, the eagle will leave your hat split
Ruck flow is like "**** you, Gawd"
I don't wanna rhyme, I need a construction job
- Sean Price
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05-05-2009, 09:17 PM #83
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05-05-2009, 09:18 PM #84
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05-05-2009, 09:19 PM #85
so if Kimbo and Brian Urlacher decide they want to fight in a UFC event, and the UFC says no, they back themself into a corner?
If Jose Canseco wanted to fight Brock lesnar instead of fighting in Japan, the UFC would look bad by telling him no?
Of course I'll disagree with you...unless you're claiming to be "right" after stating no one can be right or wrong? If there is no "right" answer then there necessarily will be viewpoints that disagree
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05-05-2009, 09:21 PM #86
what would be the point of Anderson Silva defeating RJJ on the Ground? you don't issue the challenge and then beat the other guy in a style he is unfamilar with man lol
I mean it's logical sure but it's also pointless, for the battle to matter it really needs to be a Stand-Up affair
I realize that RJJ is offering to do this battle in the cage, but Silva opened the challenge if Silva goes to RJJ's gym and asks him to have a BJJ match that dosn't really mean any thing now does it?
the big factor you are missing tho is that Brock is a HW and RJJ has fought HW but not in the times we are talking about, the public at leart considers HW's legit and everyone else 'little guys who try really hard' and as for the WWE ppv's I mean, there is so much on a WWE ppv that I got some PPV's Brock was Main Eventing and I hated Brock as a Wrestler...
so you can't say Brock was 'the' Draw for the WWE events.
another factor is RJJ has been called p4p best in Boxing and Anderson Silva has the same at MMA so that is why this would be a big fight
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05-05-2009, 09:22 PM #87
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05-05-2009, 09:22 PM #88
Does Squizzy have a logic-bolt missing from his head , Dude you're honestly not making a good arguement
"Modern man is conditioned to expect instant gratification but any success or triumph realized quickly, with only marginal effort is necessarily shallow. Meaningful achievement takes time, hard work, persistence, patience, proper intent and constant self-awareness. The path to such success is punctuated by failure, consolidation and renewed effort. Personal reconstruction is art." - MFT
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05-05-2009, 09:22 PM #89
even if you're given that they're comparable, it's still a worse situation for ufc
lesnar was a physical specimen coming into his physical prime. he had over a year of experience in MMA, and years of wrestling background(real, not wwe). he's a massive beast who the average joe thinks is unbeatable based on physique
jones is in great shape, but is past his prime and in his 40's. he's in a lighter weight class, and is not the build that the average joe will buy just to watch
the average joe, shown Lesnar's body and RJJ's body, will prefer to watch Lesnar, expecting his size will allow him to hold his own better
plus I think experience would show a stand-up guy with 0 ground game is in a much worse spot than a wrestler with 0 stand-up game
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05-05-2009, 09:23 PM #90
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