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  1. #31
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    "The nature of the ketogenic diet is such that most individuals tend to consume a lot of saturated fats while on the diet. Substituting some of the saturated fat intake inherent to the ketogenic diet with unsaturated fats such as fish oils and vegetable oils, may increase thermogenesis (the burning of calories to produce heat) and increase fat loss. Many individuals report a significant amount of bodily warmth following a meal high in unsaturated fats, probably
    due to increased thermogenesis. Note that this further limits the food choices available on a ketogenic diet." Lyles McDonald

    Ahhhh. Unsaturated fats = increased thermogenesis.
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  2. #32
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    good to know and helps explain why rubberguard and silent1 are having great results.
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  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    "The nature of the ketogenic diet is such that most individuals tend to consume a lot of saturated fats while on the diet. Substituting some of the saturated fat intake inherent to the ketogenic diet with unsaturated fats such as fish oils and vegetable oils, may increase thermogenesis (the burning of calories to produce heat) and increase fat loss. Many individuals report a significant amount of bodily warmth following a meal high in unsaturated fats, probably
    due to increased thermogenesis. Note that this further limits the food choices available on a ketogenic diet." Lyles McDonald

    Ahhhh. Unsaturated fats = increased thermogenesis.
    I learnt the hard way dude; count yourself lucky knowing now! lol

    For me its all egg yolks, EVOO, pb and thats it for fats.
    "It's all about getting back up"
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  4. #34
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    I had a serious glycogen depletion last night at the gym. I really lifted heavy in the upper body and I was feeling sick to my stomach and light headed. Something Lyle McDonald said would happen in his book. I couldn't do cardio because of it.
    It would suck if I passed out in front of all those beautiful women in the gym.

    On another note, this will be my first carb-up weekend. Since I'm not at bodybuilding intensity it will be a 24 hour carb-up. I can't wait!!!
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  5. #35
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    I'm going to follow this to the letter on my carb-up:


    1. 5 hours prior to your final workout before the carb-up, consume 25-50 grams of carbohydrate with some protein to begin the shift out of ketosis. Small amounts of protein and fat may be added to this meal.

    2. 2 hours prior to the final workout, consume 25-50 grams of glucose and fructose (such as fruit) to refill liver glycogen.

    3. The level of glycogen resynthesis depends on the duration of the carb-up and the amount of carbohydrates consumed. In 24 hours, glycogen levels of 100-110 mmol/kg can be achieved as long as 10 grams carb/kg lean body mass are consumed. During the second 24 hours of carbing, an intake of 5 grams/kg lean body mass is recommended.

    4. During the first 24 hours, the macronutrient ratios should be 70% carbs, 15% protein and 15% fat. During the second 24 hours, the ratios are roughly 60% carbs, 25% protein and 15% fat.

    5. As long as sufficient amounts of carbohydrate are consumed, the type and timing of intake is relatively less important. However, some data suggests the higher glycogen levels can be attained over 24 hours, if higher Glycemic Index (GI) carbs are consumed. If carbing is continued
    past 24 hours, lower GI foods should be consumed.

    Source: The ketogenic Diet
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  6. #36
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    Just wanted to chime in and say great thread! Best of luck on your continued weight loss, I'm starting my keto diet on Monday and am really looking forward to it!
    No pain No gain
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  7. #37
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    good luck. let us know what you actually eat and how you feel the next day or two.
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  8. #38
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    Ok, for my 24 hour carb-up I'm going to do 4800 calories. Maybe less.

    5 hours before my last workout I will open up probably with a liquid carb
    to meet my 25 to 50 grams of carbs that can include unsaturated fats and protein.

    2 hours before workout I will eat my 25 - 50 grams of glucose/fructose which will be fruit

    Then the carb-up I'm still working on what I will eat.
    Most likely some spaghetti with low fat meat to start topped with cheese.

    I thought about chinese food but high fat mixed with high carbs might not be a good idea and i have no way to know how many calories i'm eating anyway.

    But the carb-up food will be in the realm below. Its actually lower than what my lean body weight is suppose to have according to Lyles. This would be for someone weighing 190 pounds.

    3360 calories in carbs/4 = 840 grams
    720 calories in fats/9 = 80 grams
    720 calories in proteins/4 = 180 grams
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  9. #39
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    At 213 pounds l will be starting my pre-carb-up.

    I ate about 30 grams of carbs in a protein drink at 8 am

    I've just finished eating raspberries, blackberries and an Asian pear before my full body workout. The fruit came out to about 50 grams of carbs at 200 calories before my final workout and Carb-up after the workout. I LOVE ASIAN PEARS. Especially when they are cold.

    The glucose/fructose mixed fruit are suppose to replenish my liver glycogen

    So heading to the gym shortly to drain my muscles as much as possible of glycogen utilizing the available carbs I've eaten this morning.
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  10. #40
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    I don't think I can eat the required carbs in this carb-up. I'm just too damn full and i'm not eating it all at once.
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  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    I don't think I can eat the required carbs in this carb-up. I'm just too damn full and i'm not eating it all at once.
    LOL! God knows thats exactly how I felt. Do not force yourself; let your body tell you when its enough.
    "It's all about getting back up"
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  12. #42
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    Waah I'm sad I just only noticed this thread!

    Lots of interesting stuff in here, especially the bits from Lyle's keto book.

    Originally Posted by queloque
    I don't think I can eat the required carbs in this carb-up. I'm just too damn full and i'm not eating it all at once.
    Hahaha, I hear ya! I think the most carbs I've had on a carb-up was 200g and it's just so hard to get it all down, more so when you're used to not eating them.

    840g, that is like.........whooooooooooa. Hope you managed to eat most of it. XD
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  13. #43
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    Ok, i'm going to the gym today. I feel energized after the 24 hour carb up. I was dead tired yesterday. I couldn't even go to the gym on Saturday.

    I decided to do one more modified carb-up today as well so that I can finish the following week. Thursday and Friday workouts beat me down pretty bad. I had no energy to lift the weights to maximum.
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  14. #44
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    Its clear how important a carb-up is. After my first cycle of keto my body was screaming for carbs to lift weights efficiently by the end of the week. I cannot imagine not doing a carb-up on weekends if I want to lift aggressively during the week along with cardio.

    Well monday will be the second cycle of keto with low cardio. I could not eat the amount Lyles suggested for my weight but I ate clean on Saturday but ate some fried foods on Sunday.
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  15. #45
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    hey, my fiance is going to start the diet and he's the same measurements as you. he doesn't workout however so i think i'm going to limit him to about 1690 calories.

    could you either post in your log or my log a day's worth of eating so i can get him started? if the cals are different, no worries, l'll cut something out. you'll be saving me some work until i can sit down with him and plan out his food. thanks so much.
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  16. #46
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    Wow some guy had a heart attack at my gym today and it didn't look good. They were pumping his chest out the door.

    All I say is keep your heart healthy guys. Limit your saturated fats and increase your unsaturated fats.

    Remember your heart only uses fatty acids for energy not carbs or proteins.
    Last edited by queloque; 03-30-2009 at 04:21 PM.
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  17. #47
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    Originally Posted by queloque View Post
    Wow some guy had a heart attack at my gym today and it didn't look good. They were pumping his chest out the door.

    All I say is keep your heart healthy guys. Limited your saturated fats and increase your unsaturated fats.

    Remember your heart only uses fatty acids for energy not carbs or proteins.
    Keep it clean people! the fats that is
    "It's all about getting back up"
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  18. #48
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    I don't like the option that I have to spend 3 days to get back into ketosis after a carb-up only to be in ketosis for 2 days than another carb-up that weekend.
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  19. #49
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    Great thread! I love the sections of the book thrown in. I have the BodyOpus book, but I haven't read it in years - may have to get it back out. Sounds like you're doing well OP. Keep it up!
    STAND TALL AND SHAKE THE HEAVENS!!

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  20. #50
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    I like Almond meal better than flax meal for my pancakes. Its not saying much though.
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  21. #51
    Registered User queloque's Avatar
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    pounded a chicken breast nice and flat, about 8 ounces, than seasoned one egg and coated the chicken with it. I than breaded the breast with almond meal a little more than 1/4 cup and fried it in a shallow fry pan with about 1/4 cup of veg oil.

    Shall I say it was very good and it gave me a lot of protein.
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  22. #52
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    No desire for a carb up this weekend, so I won't.
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  23. #53
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    During excercise especially during aerobics.

    "Ketones rarely provide more than 7-8% of total energy yield even in highly ketotic individuals

    Protein only provides 5-10% of total energy yield (up to 13 grams of protein per hour)."

    The Ketogenic Diet - Lyles Mcdonald

    Which means your energy source will come from:

    Adipose tissue triglyceride Carbohydrate stores &
    Muscle glycogen


    "As at rest, the primary fuels during aerobic exercise are carbohydrate (muscle glycogen
    and blood glucose) and FFA (from adipose tissue as well as intramuscular triglyceride) (13,14).
    At low intensities, fat is the primary fuel source during exercise. As exercise intensity increases,
    glycogen is used to a greater degree. This fact has been misinterpreted by some to suggest that
    low-intensity activity is the best choice for fat loss. However, the absolute amount of fat used
    during exercise is greater at higher exercise intensities."

    Source: The Ketogenic Diet, Lyles McDonald
    Last edited by queloque; 04-03-2009 at 09:32 AM.
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  24. #54
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    Possible Gender difference under the Keto diet

    Gender Differences in fuel metabolism

    There are differences between men and women in terms of the physiological response to aerobic exercise. While the exact implication of these differences are unclear, they have one major consequence with regards to the ketogenic diet, especially the CKD.

    At any aerobic intensity, women use more fat and less carbohydrate and protein during exercise (42-45). Studies also show that women do not respond to carb loading the same as men do, most likely because they deplete less muscle glycogen less during aerobic exercise (42). This has two important ramifications for women wishing to follow a ketogenic diet. First and foremost, less dietary protein is required during the week as less protein is used during exercise and at rest (43). As discussed in chapter 9, if ketosis can not be established and all other facets of the diet are in order, protein should be reduced gradually until trace ketosis is established. Additionally,
    since less glycogen is depleted during aerobic exercise (42,44) carbohydrate requirements for women on a ketogenic diet are affected.

    Anecdotally, some women report excessive fat regain during the carb-load portion of a CKD, especially if they are not weight training during the week. This may be related to the physiological differences outlined above. Since glycogen levels are depleted less in women than in men, the chance for extra carbohydrate calories to ?spill over? during the carb-up and be stored as
    fat is more likely. If a woman is only performing aerobic exercise, a CKD will not be appropriate and the TKD is the better choice. If a woman is weight training and following the CKD, but finds that fat regain is occurring during the carb-up, the carb-up can be shortened or only performed once every
    two weeks. The exact cause of these gender differences is unknown but is probably related to one or more of the following factors. Women have higher growth hormone levels than men at rest and have a greater increase in GH during exercise (46). Additionally, women show a higher adrenaline
    release to exercise than men as well as having lower baseline insulin levels (42,44,45). Finally, women have a greater capacity for beta-oxidation (fat burning) than do men (47).

    These differences only appear to occur during the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle, which is the time period between ovulation and menstruation (42). Higher levels of estradiol (one of the estrogens) also appear to be involved (44). Interestingly, this difference in substrate
    utilization occurs only in untrained women and well trained women show roughly the same fuel utilization pattern as men (48).

    source: The Ketogenic Diet - Lyles McDonald
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    thanks for this. it makes me feel good that i'm not carbing up more often and reminds me to make my next carbup much shorter (less carbs).

    what's your progress? have you lost any inches or pounds?
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    Originally Posted by anniesbay View Post
    thanks for this. it makes me feel good that i'm not carbing up more often and reminds me to make my next carbup much shorter (less carbs).

    what's your progress? have you lost any inches or pounds?
    Well I'm down to 211 but the inches are better.

    lost 2 inches measuring in front of my belly button.
    1/2 inch off of my neck and about 1/2 inch around the waist.

    So I'm clearly losing some inches and muscle growth is countering any huge weight loss. But that is fine. It is all about the inches for me.

    No carb-up this weekend. My appetite is much less. I have to force myself to eat. I'm making some creative dishes and have little desire for any starchy foods. The almond meal and flax meal helps a lot too.
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    I'm liking my hamburger helper style dish with ground turkey or beef with about 2 to 3 cups of sharp cheddar cheese mixed and with chopped green onions and chopped celery and seasoned with garlic powder, oregano and other spices and finally some Avocado or guacamole (3 avocados for the guac). Should last me the whole week. Tons of proteins and fats that I can take to work to snack on.

    At home I top it with some sour cream.
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    yummy, a taco salad with all the best parts.
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    Originally Posted by anniesbay View Post
    yummy, a taco salad with all the best parts.
    Yeah, I think I will experiment with different seasoning packets.
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    dude what happened? how'd you get back in the red?
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