Weightlifting in prisons?? POS or NEG?

[grace_ou]

http://www.strengthtech.com/correct/...ng/listing.htm

A common list of concerns about allowing weight training in prison.

I have to say I've always been aginst this. It's one thing to allow them to exercise it's quite another to support them in getting bigger and stronger. I was pretty mad to learn that not only do the get weights but they can buy supplements like protein powders!!

[Marius_Ursus]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=112551171

[grace_ou]

" 5. In violent crimes committed with weapons, muscles are rarely the weapon of choice. Physical strength and size are insignificant to firearms and other weapons often used in commission of crimes."

I think this statement was just crazy! With the exception of guns you need muscle and strength to attack someone or overpower someone.

[Marius_Ursus]

" 5. In violent crimes committed with weapons, muscles are rarely the weapon of choice. Physical strength and size are insignificant to firearms and other weapons often used in commission of crimes."

I think this statement was just crazy! With the exception of guns you need muscle and strength to attack someone or overpower someone.

That's simply not true.

[bodyhard]

" 5. In violent crimes committed with weapons, muscles are rarely the weapon of choice. Physical strength and size are insignificant to firearms and other weapons often used in commission of crimes."

I think this statement was just crazy! With the exception of guns you need muscle and strength to attack someone or overpower someone.

Actually this is true, in prison the element of surprise is the best weapon.
Best is reputation. Rep = Numbers and privileges Number = Overpower. privileges = accompanying space and or areas access to weapons.

[grace_ou]

That's simply not true.

Which part?? If you attack someone with a weapon you don't think your going to more effective the stronger you are??

[bodyhard]

Which part?? If you attack someone with a weapon you don't think your going to more effective the stronger you are??

In prison most fatalities happen within a matter of seconds. Shanked in the throat, while in the rec room, or poked in the kidneys, heart, lung in the mess hall/crubb area.

Most are slashes to earn respect made out of mostly anything. Most common is a slash to the face, face can not be covered.

[Marius_Ursus]

Which part?? If you attack someone with a weapon you don't think your going to more effective the stronger you are??

The part that you need to be bigger to attack, overpower, or defeat another person. Size has very little to do with performance during a crisis situation (unless it's someone grotesquely large like Brock Lesnar).

Bodyhard has a good handle on the truth in violent situations.

[grace_ou]

In prison most fatalities happen within a matter of seconds. Shanked in the throat, while in the rec room, or poked in the kidneys, heart, lung in the mess hall/crubb area.

Most are slashes to earn respect made out of mostly anything. Most common is a slash to the face, face can not be covered.

Yeah.. but I was thinking more outside prison.. LOL like when they get out.. cause most crimes aginst women require men to some extend men to have the abilty to over power..

[Capt_Lou]

In prison most fatalities happen within a matter of seconds. Shanked in the throat, while in the rec room, or poked in the kidneys, heart, lung in the mess hall/crubb area.

Most are slashes to earn respect made out of mostly anything. Most common is a slash to the face, face can not be covered.

My 2 cents of this.

I worked in a Max security prison for 4 years. We did not allow any type of weight training equipment. I was all for this, due to the fact that:

1. We did not carry weapons
2. Prisoner to Guard ratio was like 30-1
3. I was usually locked in a squad bay with 45+ prisoners at a time and no way out.

What BH said is true, most of the altercations or attacks were so fast no matter what I did I could not have prevented it. Beleive it or not most happned in the showers, shanks that were hidden in towels were the norm. Plus very few of the attacks were fatal, just a cut here or a little stab there. I think 2 deaths in 4 years I was there.

[grace_ou]

The part that you need to be bigger to attack, overpower, or defeat another person. Size has very little to do with performance during a crisis situation (unless it's someone grotesquely large like Brock Lesnar).

Bodyhard has a good handle on the truth in violent situations.

But it's that more looking at from a mans point of view?? I don't know how other women think to me size strength they matter in a fight.. or defensive situation.

[bodyhard]

Yeah.. but I was thinking more outside prison.. LOL like when they get out.. cause most crimes aginst women require men to some extend men to have the abilty to over power..

Outside? You mean like in the yard or when they are done doing their bid and are on the streets? Cause then the prison has nothing to do with it

[grace_ou]

My 2 cents of this.

I worked in a Max security prison for 4 years. We did not allow any type of weight training equipment. I was all for this, due to the fact that:

1. We did not carry weapons
2. Prisoner to Guard ratio was like 30-1
3. I was usually locked in a squad bay with 45+ prisoners at a time and no way out.

What BH said is true, most of the altercations or attacks were so fast no matter what I did I could not have prevented it. Beleive it or not most happned in the showers, shanks that were hidden in towels were the norm. Plus very few of the attacks were fatal, just a cut here or a little stab there. I think 2 deaths in 4 years I was there.

Shanks are crudely made don't you think that the amount of damage a guy that's bigger and stronger compared to a guy that's skinny and weaker could do would be a pretty big difference.. I mean it's not exactly as easy to stab someone with a home made knife as people would think.

[Marius_Ursus]

But it's that more looking at from a mans point of view?? I don't know how other women think to me size strength they matter in a fight.. or defensive situation.

It's coming more from the point of view of someone who's made violence a nearly lifelong study. My own wife (at just under 100 pounds) has put down guys who are bigger than I based solely on how fierce she is.

Like the old saying goes, "It's not the size of the dog in the fight. It's size of the fight in the dog."

[woodlake]

Yeah.. but I was thinking more outside prison.. LOL like when they get out.. cause most crimes aginst women require men to some extend men to have the abilty to over power..

It is true a lot of guys come out of prison a lot bigger/fitter than when they went in. However in most cases within a few months most have lost any gains due to the lifestyle that put them inside in the first place.

[Marius_Ursus]

Shanks are crudely made don't you think that the amount of damage a guy that's bigger and stronger compared to a guy that's skinny and weaker could do would be a pretty big difference.. I mean it's not exactly as easy to stab someone with a home made knife as people would think.

Maybe watching some videos of krav maga training or some of the Lockup documentaries would change your mind about that.[/i]

[Capt_Lou]

Shanks are crudely made don't you think that the amount of damage a guy that's bigger and stronger compared to a guy that's skinny and weaker could do would be a pretty big difference.. I mean it's not exactly as easy to stab someone with a home made knife as people would think.

Nope, sharp is sharp, you would be surprised on how nice of a knife can be made from a toothbrush and tape. Plus we also had a wood working shop so they could check out box cutters, hammers, drills, chisels, etc....

To go with the Brock lesner referance, I think I could walk up to him and bury it in his side just as well as someone that is 130lbs.

[grace_ou]

Outside? You mean like in the yard or when they are done doing their bid and are on the streets? Cause then the prison has nothing to do with it

LOL I was thinking after release when the but riding was done... I assumed that statement was made about crimes outside prisons.. ya'll are ****in up my homework now I'm suppose to writing about wheather or not weight lifting is a postive or negative influence on society.

[Capt_Lou]

LOL I was thinking after release when the but riding was done... I assumed that statement was made about crimes outside prisons.. ya'll are ****in up my homework now I'm suppose to writing about wheather or not weight lifting is a postive or negative influence on society.

Positive or negative in society or in prison? Two differenet subjects.

[grace_ou]

Maybe watching some videos of krav maga training or some of the Lockup documentaries would change your mind about that.[/i]

That's a good idea.. I'll see what I can find.

[bodyhard]

Shanks are crudely made don't you think that the amount of damage a guy that's bigger and stronger compared to a guy that's skinny and weaker could do would be a pretty big difference.. I mean it's not exactly as easy to stab someone with a home made knife as people would think.

This is true to an extent, but a shank is sharp/pointy. They poke/slash easy body parts and by element of surprise.

In prison it is not only the strong survive but more so only the strong HEARTED survive. A man could be 6'2' 280lbs if it is not in him, his size will do little to nothing for him.

Also it is not the size of the man in the fight but more so the size of the fight in the man. Size rarely has anything to do in a fight unless it is in sports as fighting to survive is much more damaging than fighting with rules.

[grace_ou]

Positive or negative in society or in prison? Two differenet subjects.

I'm guessin either the assignment doesn't specify. I'd go do reasearch at the library but I'm sick ... so I'm trying to write this from home.

[grace_ou]

This is true to an extent, but a shank is sharp/pointy. They poke/slash easy body parts and by element of surprise.

In prison it is not only the strong survive but more so only the strong HEARTED survive. A man could be 6'2' 280lbs if it is not in him, his size will do little to nothing for him.

Also it is not the size of the man in the fight but more so the size of the fight in the man. Size rarely has anything to do in a fight unless it is in sports as fighting to survive is much more damaging than fighting with rules.

I have to say my time spent in jail was pretty damn cushy.. I didn't have to worry anything the guards took care of everything for me.. I didn't have to worry about anything.. LOL, I'm guessin everyones time isn't spent like that.

[Capt_Lou]

I'm guessin either the assignment doesn't specify. I'd go do reasearch at the library but I'm sick ... so I'm trying to write this from home.

Short answer

In society good - people getitng fit, healthcare caost decreasing, longer life etc

In Prison Bad - Should be in cells 23 hours a day, no freedom to do anything....

[bodyhard]

LOL I was thinking after release when the but riding was done... I assumed that statement was made about crimes outside prisons.. ya'll are ****in up my homework now I'm suppose to writing about wheather or not weight lifting is a postive or negative influence on society.

Prison can only change a man who is truly sorry for his crimes, i.e rehabilitate himself it will not change a true perp, only make him stronger this is a fact.

So weightlifting in prison just as weightlifting outside of the prison is relevant only to the individual himself.

So positive for the person who wants to do his time, take care of himself physically as well as mentally and rehab himself.

Negative for the person who is doing his time waiting to get out to do more crimes.

[JOHN GARGANI]

I'm sorry , Grace, but within the parameters of the point you are trying to make, why don't we just then go ahead and spay them like a dog?

you are saying that a criminal has lost the right to be fit or strong, is what you are saying......

again, you are speaking in terms of POTENTIAL........there are weapons laws that address that very same potential, which is why Plaxico Burress is in a world of trouble right now....

but you are going one step further, saying that even their own bodies are potential weapons, hence, they should be weak??


I don't know.....that is a tough buy amigo.......

for that matter, lets put them all in isolation and waste them away, so that when they come out they are barely alive and not capable of hurting a fly...by your logical process here.....

[bodyhard]

I have to say my time spent in jail was pretty damn cushy.. I didn't have to worry anything the guards took care of everything for me.. I didn't have to worry about anything.. LOL, I'm guessin everyones time isn't spent like that.

No not at all.........

[grace_ou]

I'm sorry , Grace, but within the parameters of the point you are trying to make, why don't we just then go ahead and spay them like a dog?

you are saying that a criminal has lost the right to be fit or strong, is what you are saying......

again, you are speaking in terms of POTENTIAL........there are weapons laws that address that very same potential, which is why Plaxico Burress is in a world of trouble right now....

but you are going one step further, saying that even their own bodies are potential weapons, hence, they should be weak??


I don't know.....that is a tough buy amigo.......

for that matter, lets put them all in isolation and waste them away, so that when they come out they are barely alive and not capable of hurting a fly...by your logical process here.....

First of all prisoners do not have the same rights as free individuals, they gave that up when they commited a crime.. I've been in jail I'll admit it was easy time though.. I got alot of privs, I shouldn't have been alowed and I'm sure that has alot to do with my views... but on the other hand I had an uncle that was in and out of prison all his life and everytime he came out he was bigger,stronger and meaner..

But I wasn't really trying to make a point more just trying to figure out a direction of thought..

[grace_ou]

No not at all.........

I know.. sadly I got better treatment in jail then I did at home!


(I was married to a small town sheriffs son at the time)

[grace_ou]

Positive or negative in society or in prison? Two differenet subjects.

I've been thinking more in terms of it's impact when they get out but I should probally be more focused on the impact it has while they are in prison.. got be easier research and focus on.