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Thread: Havoc PCT help!

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    Registered User sportsaddict10's Avatar
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    Havoc PCT help!

    Ok, so I know I am going to cycle Havoc, but i'm a little confused as to the PCT. I have read through many threads so far and am pretty sure i'm more confused than when i started.

    It seems like reveristol is good to use, but theres a lot of arguement as to use other supps with it...nolva? i3c(i dont even know what this is)?, CS PCS?, other random supps...

    Most say no serm...but some say its a necessity

    so if i was going to PCT w/ reversitol...would i in fact need something else?

    Also, is Havoc strong enough to need something a couple weeks prior of cycle?
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    Originally Posted by sportsaddict10 View Post
    Ok, so I know I am going to cycle Havoc, but i'm a little confused as to the PCT. I have read through many threads so far and am pretty sure i'm more confused than when i started.

    It seems like reveristol is good to use, but theres a lot of arguement as to use other supps with it...nolva? i3c(i dont even know what this is)?, CS PCS?, other random supps...

    Most say no serm...but some say its a necessity

    so if i was going to PCT w/ reversitol...would i in fact need something else?

    Also, is Havoc strong enough to need something a couple weeks prior of cycle?
    Post your cycle, how much, when, etc.... so we know what we are working with.
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    Registered User sportsaddict10's Avatar
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    well its going to be my first cycle (other than halodrol liq gels, which wasn't rly a cycle), so i was thinking 20-30-30-30

    i'm 5'11 162, in shape, 24, about 3-4% body fat

    was thinkin about starting the cycle in a month

    sorry if i seem a lil newbish, thats why i'm posting
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    I would run it like you said.

    When your done, start Reversitol 4/3/2/1. Use a test booster if your balls aren't back.

    That sounds good. Listen to your body, if you think there is a problem make adjustments...IE. libidio, Blood pressure, Liver etc.
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    Originally Posted by sportsaddict10 View Post
    well its going to be my first cycle (other than halodrol liq gels, which wasn't rly a cycle), so i was thinking 20-30-30-30

    i'm 5'11 162, in shape, 24, about 3-4% body fat

    was thinkin about starting the cycle in a month

    sorry if i seem a lil newbish, thats why i'm posting
    Your cycle is good, but I worry when you say you are 3-4% body fat. Nobody is 3-4% body fat, and if you were I would tell you to admit yourself to a hospital.

    As far as the PCT goes. I am on Epistane right now and I am taking 2 scoops of AI's Cycle Support while on cycle. For PCT I am taking...

    AI Cycle Support (until the 3rd week)
    AI Post Cycle Support
    Now's I3C Supplement

    Here is a direct link to my Epistane Log, you can learn alot on there.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113017101
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    i would try eating first....you sound skinny as ****...maybe increase your calories and try more natural things before going to a ph
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    Originally Posted by metallicide View Post
    i would try eating first....you sound skinny as ****...maybe increase your calories and try more natural things before going to a ph
    ....or what he said!
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    Registered User sportsaddict10's Avatar
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    heh, i just got done playing college level soccer.. i'm eating more and more especially with the workouts intesifying; i just guessed at 3-4%, but its def pretty low w/ all the cardio. I've been off the soccer regimine for about a month anyways.
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    i did havoc at
    20
    20
    30
    40
    took liver pills and antioxident pills from now adam 1 time a day
    i didnt preload anything
    i took havoc as far away from cycle support as possbile
    i drank lots of water
    i pissed a lot
    i got headaches in the beginning
    i ate alot of carbs
    clean carbs like oatmeal and rice
    i ate leans proteins
    i worked out hard
    i rested 3 days a week
    i had trouble sleeping
    i got pumps that hurt the muscles were so hard
    strengn on bench went up like 30 pounds
    weight went up like 10 pounds
    i lost some streng and weight after pct. pct was otc
    i thought i had gyno but doctor said it was extra fat from added weight
    i liked havoc
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    Registered User sportsaddict10's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by inkedouttrucca View Post
    i did havoc at
    20
    20
    30
    40
    took liver pills and antioxident pills from now adam 1 time a day
    i didnt preload anything
    i took havoc as far away from cycle support as possbile
    i drank lots of water
    i pissed a lot
    i got headaches in the beginning
    i ate alot of carbs
    clean carbs like oatmeal and rice
    i ate leans proteins
    i worked out hard
    i rested 3 days a week
    i had trouble sleeping
    i got pumps that hurt the muscles were so hard
    strengn on bench went up like 30 pounds
    weight went up like 10 pounds
    i lost some streng and weight after pct. pct was otc
    i thought i had gyno but doctor said it was extra fat from added weight
    i liked havoc
    so you didn't pre cycle anything...and you're PST was just otc...what is otc?
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    Registered User sportsaddict10's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jigsaw-Man View Post
    Your cycle is good, but I worry when you say you are 3-4% body fat. Nobody is 3-4% body fat, and if you were I would tell you to admit yourself to a hospital.

    As far as the PCT goes. I am on Epistane right now and I am taking 2 scoops of AI's Cycle Support while on cycle. For PCT I am taking...

    AI Cycle Support (until the 3rd week)
    AI Post Cycle Support
    Now's I3C Supplement

    Here is a direct link to my Epistane Log, you can learn alot on there.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=113017101
    I think I did read through your log when i was debating over epistane vs havoc...very nice. I still don't know what I3Cs are, and i keep hearing Cycle Support tastes nasty
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    Cycle support tastes nasty, but its an increadibly good support supp, so why not chug it down when its good for you. The scoops are in addition hella small, so no prob, be a man!

    OTC is over the counter, and when people talk about serm in this case, they mostly mean as in a preventative matter, if gynecomastia should show up. It is mostly a problem for people prone to it or who have had it before. Its a very good safety line to have for sure, but not a dead set must.

    I say preload your support supps for about a week before beginning any methylated compund, nomatter what support you go with, there are tons out there.
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    can you use something like ejaculoid (or w/e that libido enhancement product is called) while cycling havoc to make sure libido doesn't decrease?
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    jigsaw...are I3Bs necessary w/ reversitol...i can't even find any strong evidence online that they do anything...everything is just 'suspected', and most of the research is for preventing cancerous tumors ...what did your doc say?
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    Originally Posted by sportsaddict10 View Post
    jigsaw...are I3Bs necessary w/ reversitol...i can't even find any strong evidence online that they do anything...everything is just 'suspected', and most of the research is for preventing cancerous tumors ...what did your doc say?
    hey personally i think you need to do more research before you start a cycle you dont seem to know very well what you are doing and thats how ppl run into problems

    you really should know all this stuff and a lot more by now if you planning on a cycle

    my best advice would be to do more research ppl research for months before they actaully decide to do a cycle
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    Registered User sportsaddict10's Avatar
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    Heh, i am definitely not done researching, and i am not planning on starting my cycle for another month or so...that's what i'm posting. I do have a plan though, and am trying to tweek it so it's right for me. So far this is what i aim to do

    wk1: cycle support
    wk2: cycle support, 20 havoc
    wk3-5: cycle support, 30 havoc
    wk6-9: reversitol, greenmag

    On hand supps:
    red rice yeast w/ CoQ10
    hawthorn berry
    milk thistle
    EFA's

    I might get a test booster but i really don't think i'll need it knowning my body right now
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    Originally Posted by sportsaddict10 View Post
    jigsaw...are I3Bs necessary w/ reversitol...i can't even find any strong evidence online that they do anything...everything is just 'suspected', and most of the research is for preventing cancerous tumors ...what did your doc say?
    Sorry for the absence sportsaddict, work is kicking my butt.

    To answer your questions yes Cycle Support tastes like a poopy flavored lollypop. It's disgusting but has a ton of preventative antioxidants like Red Rice Yeast, Milk Thistle, Hawthorne Berry, etc.... I would recommend 1 scoop per day for a week before your cycle starts. Then 2 scoops of it everyday while on cycle. The 1 scoop a day again for the first 2 weeks during your PCT.

    Indole-3-Carbinol is another antioxidant for your liver as well as supports hormonal balance. It will help you get back to normal hormonally as well as continued liver support. Use in conjunction with Post Cycle Support, they make a good team.

    I have listed the ingredients of Reversitol. I've never used it so I can't comment on it but it does have I3C already in it. I've heard great things about Reversitol AND Post Cycle Support + I3C.

    20/30/30/30 Sounds like a great dosage for you. Just remember while your taking Epistane do not take anything that increases your pump like NOs or Creatine or you might regret it. The pumps are hardcore enough, you don't want more or the dreaded back pumps. I'm at the end of my first week of Epistane and I'm already stiff AND sore 24/7, I'm at the office and people are commenting on how "large" I look, I feel like I've ballooned up! HAHA

    GL and post a log w/ pics!

    Reversitol
    60 Capsules
    Supplement Facts
    Serving Size1Capsule
    Servings Per Container60

    Amount Per Serving % Daily Value

    Estrogen Modulation Matrix (EMM) 124mg *
    6-Bromoandrostenedione
    6-Etioallochol-1,4-Diene-3,17-Dione
    Indole-3-Carbinol (L3C)

    S.E.R.M. Matrix 500mg *
    Trans-Resveratrol
    Eurycoma Longifolia

    * Percentage Daily Value not established.

    Other Ingredients
    Rice Flour, Magnesium Stearate.
    Last edited by Jigsaw-Man; 01-09-2009 at 10:28 AM.
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    Registered User sportsaddict10's Avatar
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    wow nice responce...very helpful

    ya i currently use no shotgun and was def planning on cutting that out while on havoc from a few diff posts i saw..not sure if redline would mix very well with everything else lol

    have any thoughts on alcohol...should i cut it out completely for the cycle? What about PCT too...i know spring break is in the middle of march so i might have to start cycle after that if i should cut it out through PCT since im not starting till after feb. what are your thoughts?
    Last edited by sportsaddict10; 01-09-2009 at 10:33 AM.
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    Originally Posted by sportsaddict10 View Post
    wow nice responce...very helpful

    ya i currently use no shotgun and was def planning on cutting that out while on havoc from a few diff posts i saw..not sure if redline would mix very well with everything else lol
    I should probably expand on the no Nitric Oxide or Creatine while on cycle thing. It IS however recommended that you get on Creatine and/or Nitric Oxide during you PCT. It will help keep your muscles full and will help prevent a loss in size.

    Are you drinking a Casein Protein shake everynight before you go to bed? If you are not I would highly suggest adding that to your diet. Casein is a dairy based protein that is very slow absorbing and a great anti-catabolic (prevents muscle breakdown). While you sleep you get hungry and so your body will eat, if it doesn't have that thick protein to munch on it will start eating your hard-earned muscle instead... BOOOOO!!!

    Casein is very thick and sticky, in fact it is used in some adhesive and glues, so think of it this way, Casein will coat your muscles in glue so your body can't eat em at night!

    Casein comes in powder form, Optimal Nutrition makes a fantastic Casein chocolate powder.
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/cas.html
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    Originally Posted by sportsaddict10 View Post
    heh, i just got done playing college level soccer.. i'm eating more and more especially with the workouts intesifying; i just guessed at 3-4%, but its def pretty low w/ all the cardio. I've been off the soccer regimine for about a month anyways.
    So you are trying to jump from a college sport to bodybuilding by starting off with a steroid? Not the way to go about it, at all.

    Start off with the basics and maybe maybe a T-booster.

    Also, if you have to even ask about drinking alcohol while on a cycle, you are not ready to do one.
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    Originally Posted by joakman View Post
    Also, if you have to even ask about drinking alcohol while on a cycle, you are not ready to do one.
    Ya definately no drinking while on cycle, but if you are drinking you shouldn't be taking a PH anyways. Alcohol is hard on the liver and so are PHs, so if you do both at the same time it's like adding insult to injury. Also alcohol prevents protein synthesis so you won't grow which defeats taking bodybuilding seriously in the first place.
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    Registered User sportsaddict10's Avatar
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    i've done tbomb and halodrol liq gels w/ activaTe xtreme in the past 2 years; and i've been working out pretty intense for about a year straight. I know my body pretty well and i think its ready for a step up.

    just some random weights i currently do (5'11 162)

    90lbs DB press x 6
    190 bench press x 6
    55lbs DB curl x 6
    25 dips no assist
    20 pull ups no assist
    35lbs db flies
    75lb db incline flies x6

    i don't feel like i need to post everything, if i feel like i need to wait longer than a month to start than i will, i know my body best
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    Registered User joakman's Avatar
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    165 lbs and coming out from a college soccer team.. steroids aren't the answer. It is a new sport that you haven't grown into, why try taking short cuts which can potentially halt your gains after?

    How long have you taken actual bodybuilding seriously? While playing soccer does not count as that is counter productive to bodybuilding.
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    Registered User Jigsaw-Man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sportsaddict10 View Post
    i've done tbomb and halodrol liq gels w/ activaTe xtreme in the past 2 years; and i've been working out pretty intense for about a year straight. I know my body pretty well and i think its ready for a step up.

    just some random weights i currently do (5'11 162)

    90lbs DB press x 6
    190 bench press x 6
    55lbs DB curl x 6
    25 dips no assist
    20 pull ups no assist
    35lbs db flies
    75lb db incline flies x6

    i don't feel like i need to post everything, if i feel like i need to wait longer than a month to start than i will, i know my body best
    If you want to try it, I think you should try it and not listen to the nay sayers. However I think you should also think about it for awhile, see if PH/DS fit into your lifestyle at the moment. If you decide that other things are more important like girls, family, hobbies, etc... there's nothing wrong with that, I'd just hold off on this stuff until you are.

    You will know what to do man, GL!
    "Corporate policies and procedures are designed for one thing; to harness the man to the plow for maximum production." - John Eldredge

    My Epistane Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=113017101
    My Pheraplex Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=115181261
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    Originally Posted by Jigsaw-Man View Post
    If you want to try it, I think you should try it and not listen to the nay sayers. However I think you should also think about it for awhile, see if PH/DS fit into your lifestyle at the moment. If you decide that other things are more important like girls, family, hobbies, etc... there's nothing wrong with that, I'd just hold off on this stuff until you are.

    You will know what to do man, GL!
    At 162 pounds and no bodybuilding experience, you feel it is ok for someone to choose to do steroids?
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    Originally Posted by joakman View Post
    At 162 pounds and no bodybuilding experience, you feel it is ok for someone to choose to do steroids?
    You mean he hasn't been to a gym before? I thought he's been working out for awhile...
    "Corporate policies and procedures are designed for one thing; to harness the man to the plow for maximum production." - John Eldredge

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    Originally Posted by Jigsaw-Man View Post
    Are you drinking a Casein Protein shake everynight before you go to bed? If you are not I would highly suggest adding that to your diet. Casein is a dairy based protein that is very slow absorbing and a great anti-catabolic (prevents muscle breakdown). While you sleep you get hungry and so your body will eat, if it doesn't have that thick protein to munch on it will start eating your hard-earned muscle instead... BOOOOO!!!
    I have quite a few powders to choose from (torrent, probolic sr, iso pure, ON whey, syntha-6)

    I don't think syntha-6 is casein, but that is what i'm taking before bed b/c it is a slow release as well i believe.
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    Originally Posted by Jigsaw-Man View Post
    You mean he hasn't been to a gym before? I thought he's been working out for awhile...
    Bodybuilding and going to a gym are completely different.

    And training for a sport (soccer for him) and bodybuilding are polar opposites.
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    Originally Posted by sportsaddict10 View Post
    I have quite a few powders to choose from (torrent, probolic sr, iso pure, ON whey, syntha-6)

    I don't think syntha-6 is casein, but that is what i'm taking before bed b/c it is a slow release as well i believe.
    SYNTHA-6? Proprietary Protein Matrix:

    Ultra-Filtered Whey Protein Concentrate (2-3 hour digestion rate)

    Microfiltered Whey Protein Isolate (2-3 hour digestion rate)

    Egg Albumen (2-3 hour digestion rate)

    Milk Protein Concentrate (4-6 hour digestion rate)

    Calcium Caseinate (6-8 hour digestion rate)

    Micellar Alpha and Beta-Caseins and Caseinates (6-8 hour digestion rate)
    It is a blend
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    Originally Posted by joakman View Post
    Bodybuilding and going to a gym are completely different.

    And training for a sport (soccer for him) and bodybuilding are polar opposites.
    Well if he hasn't been lifting for awhile and has a good diet and lifting routine down, then I agree he shouldn't be doing Epistane.

    I guess I just assumed he had all of that in check.
    "Corporate policies and procedures are designed for one thing; to harness the man to the plow for maximum production." - John Eldredge

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