Golfer's Elbow aka wrist flexor tendonitis

[The_Warhammer]

Well I bit the bullet and decided to go see the doc for my elbow. Some of you know I've been wrestling with it for some time now. Well I went and saw the doc and he confirmed I have Medial Epicondylitis also known as Golfer's Elbow or Flexor Tendonitis.

For many of you, you know what this is. There's even been a recent thread about surgery for it. According to the lit the doc gave me, it is a painful inflammation of the bony bump on the inner side of the elbow.

The lit goes on to state this is a condition from overuse of the muscles that enable you to bend your fingers and wrist. It actually doesn't have anything to do with the biceps. It is solely an issue of the muscles and tendons in the forearm area.

I could localize it for the doc and when he felt it, he knew exactly what the issue was. As a test, he had be hold my arm at a 90degree and then he would press on the thumb and have me try and twist my forearm. THAT DID IT!!! I could feel a really sharp pain. Doc went on to explain the overuse issue, but he also said this really will take some time to resolve, like 3 to 4 weeks. DAMMIT!!! He also said that not only there are tears in the tendon tissue, but the cells themselves are confused and can be working against each other. Another reason for the 3-4 week timeframe before it resolves, it will take time to retrain the cells to all be on the same page.

So the treatment plan is ice packs for immediate relief. A cortisone shot which I turned down. Or physical therapy. He gave me a sheet with all the therapy exercises.

He said I could still do things like curls or other things that involved that tendon, just have to back the weights off ALOT. I think that's going to be my plan. I can't just stop doing those exercises. Might be a good time/opportunity to try and even out my arms a bit.

Well I hope that helps others that may be facing the same situation. Basically, rest and more restl Do the therapy exercises, and give yourself some time for healing.

[LyingSac]

shoot me a few of those exercises,I got atrophy in the left forearm and in its attempt to keep up with the right hand is straining the elbow joint.It's all from spinal injury.got it fused a year and a half ago.Man i hate training around injuries...

[Old_swole]

lighten up on the weight till you heal, use dumbbells and stay off the preacher bench. worked for me

[dartol]

Hey War, sorry to hear about that! I have had some trouble with that too. I have had both Tennis Elbow and Golfer's Elbow and i don't play either!
(tennis elbow is on the opposite side)

The good thing is the quicker you catch it and stop re-injuring it, the quicker it heals. I did physical therapy for tennis elbow but managed to take care of the golfer's myself. The main thing is to just keep stretching it. My stretch for golfer's is to hold your arm out straight in front of you with palm away and fingers pointed down. Stretch the fingers toward you with the other hand. Also stretch in the rotational direction by pull in the hand inward.

Darren

[merkong]

The lit goes on to state this is a condition from overuse of the muscles that enable you to bend your fingers and wrist. It actually doesn't have anything to do with the biceps. It is solely an issue of the muscles and tendons in the forearm area.

Do you think this may have come on from going heavy and having your fingers and wrist under greater strain manipulating and having to hold onto the heavier bar and dumbells?

I am having a similar issue with my left bicep (near the insertion point) and way upper inner forearm. I went heavy several weeks ago for a bit and then wham...

[dartol]

Oh I forgot to mention another things that helps me on elbow issues.
Pullups and things with that grip stress the outer 'tennis elbow' side, chinups and things with that grip stress the inner 'golfer's elbow side'. I find it useful to alternate pullups and chinups, and stretch if you feel any pain. Maybe it helps keep a balance between the two, I am not sure. Maybe it is worth a try once you get the pain down though.

Darren

[The_Warhammer]

Also stretch in the rotational direction by pull in the hand inward.

Darren, thanks for the advice. I am confused about this last part though. Can you explain it a little more? Thanks!

[Iceman1800]

Those straps you find at drug stores work wonders while you are recovering. Also, did you recently start any lifiting using fat bars? The wider grip you take can cause this to happen sometimes

[The_Warhammer]

Merkong, sounds like the same thing. Mine wasn't a sudden onset like yours though, it was gradual over time. I think mine developed as I wasn't starting slow enough as I should have. The part I needed to wrap my brain around is that it's not the bicep. It's the forearms. The muscles and tendons trying to bend the wrist and fingers. That's what's the root cause here. So yes, it could be from trying to lift a bar that's too heavy for the body if you are bending your wrists to do the movement. Think about how you are doing it. Are you trying to bend your wrists any at all? It might be contributing. Interesting part for me is that it's not when I contract my hand to make a fist. I can feel the muscles engaging, but no pain. If however I try to rotate my hand counterclockwise, I will feel a sharp pain by the elbow.

LyingSac, I was asked by a couple of people for the exercises so here is the info:
I'd scan the sheet and post it, but they're not allowing attachments at this time.
===
You may do stretching exercises 1-3 right away. You may do strenghtening exercises 4-6 when stretching is nearly painless.

1. Wrist range of motion: Bend your wrist forward and backward as far as you can. Do this 10x3.

2. Forearm range of motion: With your elbow at your side and bent 90 degrees, bring your palm facing up and hold for 5 seconds. Slowly turn your palm facing down and hold for 5 seconds. Repeat this 10x3. Make sure you keep your elbow bent at 90 degrees throughout this exercise.

3. Elbow range of motion: Gently bring your palm up toward your shoulder and bend your elbow as far as you can then straighten your elbow out as far as you can 10x3.

4. Wrist Strenghtening:
A. Wrist flexion: Hold a soup can or hammer handle with your plam up. Slowly bend your wrist up. Slowly lower the weight and return to the starting position. Repeat 10x3. Gradually increase the weight of the can.
B. Wrist extension: Hold a soup can or hammer handle with the palm down. Gently bend your wrist up. Slowly lower the weight and return to the starting position. Repeat 10x3. Gradually increase the weight of the can.
C. Wrist radial defiation strenghtening: With your wrist in the sideways postions and your thumb up, hold a can of soup or hammer handle. Gently bend your wrist up with your thumb reaching towards the ceiling. Slowly lower to the starting position. Do not move your forearm throughout this exercise. Repeat 10x3. (There is an illustration that shows the forearm propped up on a pillow)

5. Pronation and supination strenghtening: Hold a soup can or hammer handle, with your elbow bent 90 degrees. Slowly rotate your hand with palm upward and then palm down. Repeat this 10x3.

6. Elbow Flexion and extension: Hold a can od soup with your palm face up. Slowly bend your elbow so that your hand is approaching your shoulder and then lower it down slowly so your elbow is completely straight. Repeat this 10x3. Slowly increase the weight. (This one is the most similar to a regular curl)
===
I'm putting this out there for people as info. In no way shape or form is this a replacement to an actual visit to the doc if you are really having problems. Go see a doc if you are really having prolems!

[dartol]

My stretch for golfer's is to hold your arm out straight in front of you with palm away and fingers pointed down. Stretch the fingers toward you with the other hand. Also stretch in the rotational direction by pull in the hand inward.

Darren

Darren, thanks for the advice. I am confused about this last part though. Can you explain it a little more? Thanks!

Ok let me give that another shot... I need a video. LOL

With your arm pointed straight out in front of you with palm away and fingers pointed down, first pull the hand toward you with the other hand, then at the same time rotate it inward (clockwise if right hand, counter-clockwise if left hand) to point your fingers toward the other arm. I am sure you will feel this in the sore spot.

I kinda made this up for golfer's, it is the opposite of something I learned for tennis elbow. I learned the up/down part in physical therapy, but I added the rotation to get more of a stretch.

That help?

Darren

[dartol]

Just found some more tips for healthy elbows here:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...ows_amp_wrists

Darren

[The_Warhammer]

Ok let me give that another shot... I need a video. LOL

With your arm pointed straight out in front of you with palm away and fingers pointed down, first pull the hand toward you with the other hand, then at the same time rotate it inward (clockwise if right hand, counter-clockwise if left hand) to point your fingers toward the other arm. I am sure you will feel this in the sore spot.

I kinda made this up for golfer's, it is the opposite of something I learned for tennis elbow. I learned the up/down part in physical therapy, but I added the rotation to get more of a stretch.

That help?

Darren

Yep! I totally get it now. And yes I do feel it on the rotation. I'm going to do the therapy exercises religiously. I want this to get back up to speed as soon as it can.

Thanks!

[EMISGOD]

Yep! I totally get it now. And yes I do feel it on the rotation. I'm going to do the therapy exercises religiously. I want this to get back up to speed as soon as it can.

Thanks!

Be prudent. It is possible to overdo the therapy exercises as well...

This type of thing is one of the reasons that I have to be very cautious when working Forearms as direct work to them can interfere greatly with my guitar playing, which is beyond unacceptable...they're lagging somewhat as a result (or at least they are in my mind), but screw it...choices have to be made.

[The_Warhammer]

Point noted EMI. I'll keep it in mind.

[LyingSac]

cut.copied and saved.....thanks Roy

[dicktrickle]

Not 35+ but subbing to this because of tennis elbow. Keep us updated, brahski and good luck.

[The_Warhammer]

Well I've been doing the PT exercises 3x/day since prescribed. I haven't done any direct curls either. I tried doing rows last night, but just said forget it after one attempt.

I also incorporated Darren's pulling down the fingers and twisting stretch. I can really feel the stretch in the twisting part.

I think all the exercises are really helping. At times, I don't even feel the pain anymore and it's only been a few days. I'm hoping it continues to keep getting better.

One side note, I was concerned about not being able to work bi's during this. While I can't get the same quality of work in, during the elbow stretches, at the top of the movement, I am competely contracting the bi muscle and squeezing for a 5 count. After doing this 10x3, I can feel it when done. So it's better than nothing.

[Baldiewonkanobi]

My old white steed needed getting out of the barn this morning for a good run. (trumpets blaring)

OK here goes....and it's cheap and works 75+% of the time. Vitamin B-12 and Manganese and alfalfa. Get the sub lingual B-12 and put about 5 under the tounge and take a 5mg. Manganese tablet every day. Take about 15 alfalfa tablets 3 times a day. Will take weeks...be patient.

The Cobalt (the pink part of B-12) and manganese form a co-enzyme that cools off and repairs the tendon. The alfalfa keeps your purines down and gives you an alkaline blood profile which is anti inflmatory. Besides you get amazing micro minerals from the alfalfa, nice breath and body oder.

Read the last few posts on this link (Vit E is BS for tendonitis)...PM those guys if you have any doubts.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hlight=alfalfa

Baldie

[The_Warhammer]

Thanks Baldie! I'll check that stuff out!

[plmb1]

Well I bit the bullet and decided to go see the doc for my elbow. Some of you know I've been wrestling with it for some time now. Well I went and saw the doc and he confirmed I have Medial Epicondylitis also known as Golfer's Elbow or Flexor Tendonitis.

For many of you, you know what this is. There's even been a recent thread about surgery for it. According to the lit the doc gave me, it is a painful inflammation of the bony bump on the inner side of the elbow.

The lit goes on to state this is a condition from overuse of the muscles that enable you to bend your fingers and wrist. It actually doesn't have anything to do with the biceps. It is solely an issue of the muscles and tendons in the forearm area.

I could localize it for the doc and when he felt it, he knew exactly what the issue was. As a test, he had be hold my arm at a 90degree and then he would press on the thumb and have me try and twist my forearm. THAT DID IT!!! I could feel a really sharp pain. Doc went on to explain the overuse issue, but he also said this really will take some time to resolve, like 3 to 4 weeks. DAMMIT!!! He also said that not only there are tears in the tendon tissue, but the cells themselves are confused and can be working against each other. Another reason for the 3-4 week timeframe before it resolves, it will take time to retrain the cells to all be on the same page.

So the treatment plan is ice packs for immediate relief. A cortisone shot which I turned down. Or physical therapy. He gave me a sheet with all the therapy exercises.

He said I could still do things like curls or other things that involved that tendon, just have to back the weights off ALOT. I think that's going to be my plan. I can't just stop doing those exercises. Might be a good time/opportunity to try and even out my arms a bit.

Well I hope that helps others that may be facing the same situation. Basically, rest and more restl Do the therapy exercises, and give yourself some time for healing.

I have have had these problems for years..........many, many times......You can lift with this if you drop your weight alot..........Most people do not drop their weight enough and wind up having to stop lifting for a while.......Anytime mine starts to bother me, I always drop my numbers as follows.............I normaly bench starting at warmup sets at 135 going up to 355 on my heavy working sets....but when my elbow hurts I go: warmup sets are 65 going up to 155 on my working sets........most people make the mistake of doing way to many reps since they are going alot lighter. If you do to many reps then your elbow is really not getting a break. I go really light and increase my reps just a few............example: instead of 135x10, 165x8 205x8, 245x8, 285x6, 335x3, 355x1..........I go 65x10, 85x10, 105x10, 125x10, 165x10..really, really use the best form possible and get that mind to muscle connection, it will help.................not only do you need to drop the weight but you need to cut some sets also...........remember this...........while your elbow is healing........you are not trying to gain just trying to not lose anymore than you have to.........if you do not do something along this line..........trust me, you will regret it in the long run..............I have been nursing my elbow for some months now because I was not smart......Instead of taking a couple months now I am looking at 6 months and maybe surgery.............so, be smart..........good luck.

[plmb1]

My old white steed needed getting out of the barn this morning for a good run. (trumpets blaring)

OK here goes....and it's cheap and works 75+% of the time. Vitamin B-12 and Manganese and alfalfa. Get the sub lingual B-12 and put about 5 under the tounge and take a 5mg. Manganese tablet every day. Take about 15 alfalfa tablets 3 times a day. Will take weeks...be patient.

The Cobalt (the pink part of B-12) and manganese form a co-enzyme that cools off and repairs the tendon. The alfalfa keeps your purines down and gives you an alkaline blood profile which is anti inflmatory. Besides you get amazing micro minerals from the alfalfa, nice breath and body oder.

Read the last few posts on this link (Vit E is BS for tendonitis)...PM those guys if you have any doubts.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hlight=alfalfa

Baldie

thanks Baldie..........I gonna give it a try as well.........

[The_Warhammer]

Instead of taking a couple months now I am looking at 6 months and maybe surgery.............so, be smart..........good luck.

Thanks for the heads up and that sage advice. At this point, I still think I am invincible and it will go away. I have to realize that yes, I will have to address this and take care of it or it will get worse. My elbow gives me problems only on the pull exercises and so push exercises are fine.

Right now, I've cut pretty much ALL direct bicep work out. I'm going to check into those supplements Baldie suggested and just keep doing the PT exercises 3x/day.

Thanks for the support!

[plmb1]

Thanks for the heads up and that sage advice. At this point, I still think I am invincible and it will go away. I have to realize that yes, I will have to address this and take care of it or it will get worse. My elbow gives me problems only on the pull exercises and so push exercises are fine.

Right now, I've cut pretty much ALL direct bicep work out. I'm going to check into those supplements Baldie suggested and just keep doing the PT exercises 3x/day.

Thanks for the support!

Your very welcome......I hope you recover very soon........I too have problems on pulling movements. I'm having to adjust all of my workouts....it sucks but, I guess it's better than not getting to train at all......I'm with you on the supps that baldie suggested..........I'm stopping by the health food store today..........maybe it will work for both of us.......good luck.

[dartol]

I also incorporated Darren's pulling down the fingers and twisting stretch. I can really feel the stretch in the twisting part.

I think all the exercises are really helping. At times, I don't even feel the pain anymore and it's only been a few days. I'm hoping it continues to keep getting better.

Cool, I am glad it is doing some good. Just don't keep hurting it! I know, easier said than done... lol

Darren

[The_Warhammer]

Well it's been almost a month since I went to the doc. I know there's some people sub'd to this thread and some are asking for an update. Here's the update...

I've been doing the PT 2-3x day religiously. I've been staying off it COMPLETELY and it HAS been getting better. I've not started any direct bicep curls or any other direct bicep work since I saw the doc last month. I can feel it getting stronger though. I can pick up things w/o pain that would have given me pain just a few weeks ago. I can push up against the underside of my desk with a bit of force and not have pain.
There were days when it was feeling really good and I would think about curls and ONE was enough to set it on fire. It only took a a couple of tries to realize, when the doc said stay off it, he meant STAY OFF IT.

All in all, I think the biggest thing is to stay off it COMPLETELY. I think that's really helping. I still have been doing deadlifts and other things, but not anything specific to the bicep curls.

Hope that helps.

[plmb1]

Well it's been almost a month since I went to the doc. I know there's some people sub'd to this thread and some are asking for an update. Here's the update...

I've been doing the PT 2-3x day religiously. I've been staying off it COMPLETELY and it HAS been getting better. I've not started any direct bicep curls or any other direct bicep work since I saw the doc last month. I can feel it getting stronger though. I can pick up things w/o pain that would have given me pain just a few weeks ago. I can push up against the underside of my desk with a bit of force and not have pain.
There were days when it was feeling really good and I would think about curls and ONE was enough to set it on fire. It only took a a couple of tries to realize, when the doc said stay off it, he meant STAY OFF IT.

All in all, I think the biggest thing is to stay off it COMPLETELY. I think that's really helping. I still have been doing deadlifts and other things, but not anything specific to the bicep curls.

Hope that helps.

Glad to hear that you are getting better. I am still having problems with mine also. I'm starting PT tomorrow. I really hope it does the trick. If PT does not work this time its off to surgery I go because I'm am tired of dealing with it.

I see that you are able to do deads without pain. Are you using your normal weight on the deads or are you going lighter? What else are you doing for back with no pain? How about pullups or cable pulldowns? I can do deads as long as I use straps (I will never do a pulling movement without a strap again) but the pullups and rows make it scream almost as bad as curls. I have not done a curl in forever. My biceps have lost some size but (about 1/4 of an inch) what can you do.

This damn elbow thing has forced me to do something I have needed to do for a while. Work the crap out of my legs.....Thats the only thing I have to smile about lately in the gym. My legs have been growing like fire in a pile of hay...lol.

I have been taking the supps that Baldie suggested for a couple of weeks now. Maybe the supps will aid in my recovery. I sure hope so.

Keep me posted as to how you are doing and what exersices you are able to do. I will pass any info I get to you as well......good luck.

[The_Warhammer]

I see that you are able to do deads without pain. Are you using your normal weight on the deads or are you going lighter? What else are you doing for back with no pain? How about pullups or cable pulldowns? I can do deads as long as I use straps (I will never do a pulling movement without a strap again) but the pullups and rows make it scream almost as bad as curls. I have not done a curl in forever. My biceps have lost some size but (about 1/4 of an inch) what can you do.

Deads aren't a problem but I did order some straps. They left Hodgkins, IL via UPS yesterday at 1pm. I can't wait! I'm pretty much using the same weight. I also changed up the routine a bit so I think I need to see how everything shakes out once I am used to the routine.
I'm doing wide grip lat pulldowns and those are working just fine w/o any pain. I've also cut the seated cable rows out of the routine and doing DB bent over rows. I don't have any pain with those. I haven't done curls since this pain started but I don't think I've lost any in the biceps.

Thanks for your input as well!

[plmb1]

Deads aren't a problem but I did order some straps. They left Hodgkins, IL via UPS yesterday at 1pm. I can't wait! I'm pretty much using the same weight. I also changed up the routine a bit so I think I need to see how everything shakes out once I am used to the routine.
I'm doing wide grip lat pulldowns and those are working just fine w/o any pain. I've also cut the seated cable rows out of the routine and doing DB bent over rows. I don't have any pain with those. I haven't done curls since this pain started but I don't think I've lost any in the biceps.

Thanks for your input as well!

Congrats.....It sounds like you have found a great way to train around this bump in the road. I hope the straps do the trick for you. I hope I can do the same. Your options may be different than mine as you have inside elbow pain and I have outside elbow pain.

It's been hard for me to make myself stop doing pullups. But, I am tired of the pain so I guess starting my next back day pullups are out until the elbow is healed. I am hoping I can keep the DB rows and pulldowns in my routine if not it's going to be just deads for a few months. I guess it's better than nothing. I will find out soon.

How does it affect your push movemens? For push movements, I had to drop my weight so much I don't get doms or a pump at all (not even close). I'm still trying to find a way to do push movements without pain. If it was not for legs and cardio, I guess I would not have a reason to train for time being.

BTW, I was wondering about diet while going through this crap. Since I am not able to train most movements and with ALOT less intensity on the ones I can train. I was thinking about cutting my calories and upping the cardio from two to four days a week to keep from gaining unwanted BF. Whats your thoughts on that?

[BenPrimeMyBody]

Have you tried CBD oil for pain and inflammation?