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  1. #91
    The show goes on chodan9's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bjc12 View Post

    Just wondering if anyone else could relate or has had any experience dealing with similar situations.
    I haven't done the prohormone route but I have tried a ton of different supps,
    after blowing a bunch of money I found that most of the aren't effective enough to justify the cost, for instance NOX supplements may make me feel great in the gym, they dont tend to add anything else of value, I also found the a good cup of coffee and some simple carbs a half hour before the workout will pretty much accomplish the same thing.
    for me its down to nutrition+intensity in the gym+a good amount of quality rest.

    I am just glad the supplements are not mind altering, which makes experimentation a lot safer for us.
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  2. #92
    Sage Baldiewonkanobi's Avatar
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    I find myself still riddled with OCDs. From my first day of sobriety they have ranged from diet to tanning, expensive hobbies, anabolics to extreme "natural" supplimentation. Nothing mind altering but some very unhealthy (Melanoma skin cancer) or wallet draining. In most everything I do I am all in or forgedaboudidt. This drives my bride bonkers. The one constant OC I have is a good disorder...training. Sick or in a cast I WILL find a way to train.

    I have had some say that I am not truly sober yet due to my OCDs. I say bullchit....I am very very sober. OCDs and mind altering drugs and alcohol addiction are seperate. There it is the chemical that is in control.

    Thoughts??
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  3. #93
    Canis Belli Whiskeyjack's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by boathead View Post
    i had thought this was going to be a thread at to how exercise helps us achieve our sobriety goals?????

    all the talk about religion and aa is a red herring. has nothing to do with anything. aa where i've been, some 15,000 meetings, has nothing to do with religion. aa has its roots in the christian oxford group movement of the 1920's to 1950's, but split off. some remnants remain, i am told largely in ohio, but that is about it.

    and the person standing at the door will have a reservation no matter what program he is looking at. that is what drunks do....we want to drink, and it's a tall order to think that the gig may be up. THAT is the root reservation. suggesting that it's a religious thing because of some misguided notion perpetuated my those that have no clue is a cop out.

    anyone can quit drinking if they are DESPARATE enough. but once the marriage is back on solid footing, or the boss is off their back, or the judge let them off the hook...the desparation goes away. then what? that is the key to all the recovery programs...not to get you sober, but to keep you sober.
    Your story is amazing. Here's an excellent (fiction) that you may like:

    http://www.amazon.ca/Nights-Below-St.../dp/0771034849
    "An infraction is better than an infarction."
    - Aldington and Adlington

    "Cursus sub pondere crescit."
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  4. #94
    stretching blows boathead's Avatar
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    i'll check it out, whiskey. thanks. btw, gonna start the obrian books next week on your recommendation.

    to show you what a sick mother i am...whenever i see "whiskeyjack", i'm immediately thinking of bourbon over ice.
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  5. #95
    stretching blows boathead's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Baldiewonkanobi View Post
    I find myself still riddled with OCDs. From my first day of sobriety they have ranged from diet to tanning, expensive hobbies, anabolics to extreme "natural" supplimentation. Nothing mind altering but some very unhealthy (Melanoma skin cancer) or wallet draining. In most everything I do I am all in or forgedaboudidt. This drives my bride bonkers. The one constant OC I have is a good disorder...training. Sick or in a cast I WILL find a way to train.

    I have had some say that I am not truly sober yet due to my OCDs. I say bullchit....I am very very sober. OCDs and mind altering drugs and alcohol addiction are seperate. There it is the chemical that is in control.

    Thoughts??
    you are not alone, baldie. aside from the years of psychotherapy that i need yet will not stand for, what i do is this: the bad ocd's i try to temper and find balance, and apply the principles of my recovery program. the good ones, i run with without any regard to balance!!. training...aa meetings (yes, i get a high from them)...giants football (that is a good one, right?).
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  6. #96
    One Sick Bastard Muscle_Sliver's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Baldiewonkanobi View Post
    I have the feeling that we have a bunch of lurkers in here....
    The Force is strong with this one...
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  7. #97
    Registered User ...Kennedy's Avatar
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    I'm one of those lurkers. I think that this is a five-star thread. It is very motivating to read stories of other members of the community who are triumphing over problems like this. I respect your accomplishments the same way I respect anyone who has drastically improved themselves in any aspect of life.
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  8. #98
    The show goes on chodan9's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Baldiewonkanobi View Post

    I have had some say that I am not truly sober yet due to my OCDs. I say bullchit....I am very very sober. OCDs and mind altering drugs and alcohol addiction are seperate. There it is the chemical that is in control.

    Thoughts??
    I say ignore those people, (or as you say bullchit LOL)
    we can change our lives by removing drugs and alcohol from our lives, but a person who has OCD tendencies is dealing with something that is a part of there very being, you can't rid yourself of it. you can learn to live a balanced life and not be ruled by your obsessions and your compulsions,but even this it will always be a part of your nature, but to suggest that one isn't sober because they are OCD is ludicrous.
    I can atest that many who are a bit OCD can have a deeper and more commited sobriety, due to the fact that they will attack the program and work it with a level of intensity that can be a little frightening to those who aren't so inclined.
    case in point, Bill W, an obsessive compulsive power driver if ther eever was one
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  9. #99
    Registered User joed's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Baldiewonkanobi;268125701]...OCDs and mind altering drugs and alcohol addiction are separate. There it is the chemical that is in control...
    [QUOTE]

    You're absolutely right man. Whoever said that you're still not sober because of OCD's has no understanding of the issues involved, nor of the complexity of each of them, nor of the interplay between them in people.

    Obsessive thoughts and compulsive acts are basic parts of our personalities, and they are key to helping us adapt to life and solve problems. Edison once said "I know more ways how not to make a light bulb than anyone who has ever lived.".
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  10. #100
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    Exclamation Alert Alert

    Ahhh, we have such wise men in here. I feel the strength. And I know we are doing Good Medicine, not only for ourselves, each other, but the lurkers. One lurker who I know PMed me...we are doing good in our sharing.

    Beta Endorphins....the brain's own *******. "Runner's High". Training into the "Zone". Addictive...right. I can get there with high intensity...my workouts are not all that satisfying unless I get there. I take L-Arginine at bedtime and right before training for Pituitary gland HGH response. Good stuff....right? But....what if we kick that up a notch with altered L-Arginine (one of the new NOX nitric acid products). I bought a bottle last week for personal experimentation. I LOVE the chit. Oh oh. Not only does it dialate all my blood vessels (down little Baldie) it gets me into the Zone early and keeps me there all the way home and thru breakfast and shower.

    Does Nitric Acid stimulate Beta Endorphins?? Am I on to something my addictive and OCD friends?? You tell me...

    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...e?format=print


    Baldie
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  11. #101
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    More?

    Looking at L-Taurine, a popular ingrediant in most NOX supplimnets and drinks such as Red Bull, is also connected to Beta Endorphine stimulation....

    is that why at about 10am when I come down from my Endorphin high I grab a sugar free Red Bull??
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  12. #102
    RON PAUL 2012 BigDaddy33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chodan9 View Post
    I say ignore those people, (or as you say bullchit LOL)
    we can change our lives by removing drugs and alcohol from our lives, but a person who has OCD tendencies is dealing with something that is a part of there very being, you can't rid yourself of it. you can learn to live a balanced life and not be ruled by your obsessions and your compulsions,but even this it will always be a part of your nature, but to suggest that one isn't sober because they are OCD is ludicrous.
    I can atest that many who are a bit OCD can have a deeper and more commited sobriety, due to the fact that they will attack the program and work it with a level of intensity that can be a little frightening to those who aren't so inclined.
    case in point, Bill W, an obsessive compulsive power driver if ther eever was one
    x2!!
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  13. #103
    Older But Getting Better Old Bob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Baldiewonkanobi View Post
    I take L-Arginine at bedtime and right before training for Pituitary gland HGH response. Good stuff....right? But....what if we kick that up a notch with altered L-Arginine (one of the new NOX nitric acid products). I bought a bottle last week for personal experimentation. I LOVE the chit. Oh oh. Not only does it dialate all my blood vessels (down little Baldie) it gets me into the Zone early and keeps me there all the way home and thru breakfast and shower.
    Baldie
    I found an interesting article on L-Arginine.

    http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/herb...a/Arginine.htm

    $bob$
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  14. #104
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    Originally Posted by Baldiewonkanobi View Post
    The one constant OC I have is a good disorder...training. Sick or in a cast I WILL find a way to train.
    I told my wife about this thread and said that it was pretty amazing how many people had transferred their addiction to lifting. She laughed, and I said, "Well, I'm going to lift now." She replied "Enjoy your addiction."

    This way is soooooo much better.
    Jesus is my lifting partner.
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  15. #105
    Sage Baldiewonkanobi's Avatar
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    Good morning my Sober Brothers of Iron. (and Sisters too if you are lurking).

    I have good news for you. An old friend of mine, and a masters Bodybuilder, McCoy, has been lurking. Your keeping this thread going is good medicine. Mac wishes to remain a lurker and he thanks us for this thread. He and I like to swap lies about old fishing holes and trails explored. His history haunts him still today but he now has us on his side "spotting" him. I hope that one day Mac will come forth and share his work. You see Mac is an artist. He E mailed me a picture this morning that makes you wonder how man can dream such beauty and then express it thru his hands. Simply amazing.

    First workday of 2009 and I am also missing the gym for the 7th day out of the last ten due to bronchitis. Lady Wonkanobi is on my ass evertime I cough and rumble. The 3 days I snuck out she nailed me like a scolding mother. I gotta get well this week not only becuase...well...chit just gotta. Next week I travel from St. Louis to Illinois with a customer. Just what my smog filled L.A. lungs don't need....freakin COLD.


    Baldie
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  16. #106
    Older But Getting Better Old Bob's Avatar
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    Baldie,

    I worked out for a short while in the mid 80's with a bodybuilder in Colorado Springs who called that "gym cough" and said it was a sign of overtraining.

    I thought that he was full of tuna but in the last five years or so it seems to haunt me when I get very far past exhaustion.

    I've never been a smoker and have never had a problem with coughing all my life but "gym cough" seems to haunt me now if I under-rest.

    $bob$
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  17. #107
    Sage Baldiewonkanobi's Avatar
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    Bob, my Doc calls that exercise induced asthma. Says mine was set up by too many hours in smoke filled bars and smoking from age 11-41. Happens to non smokers as well. I use a puffer and take a shot just like a little kid with asthma. My 5 year old grandson and I can sit and puff together. One day he could lift and cough with me. My oldest grandson is 21 and only cares about "experiencing" every sorority girl at U. Mich. No heavy lifting for that boy. Too bad. Well, same for his dad. The apple has yet to fall from this old tree.

    Baldie
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  18. #108
    Older But Getting Better Old Bob's Avatar
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    Talking

    Yeah... I had a few years of "experiencing" as well... Ah the memories...

    Life is good eh? I actually am happier now but then that's a totally different subject.

    Well... Now I know the official term for "gym cough". You should write a book one day. I bet it would sell well.

    Maybe start your own column or at least thread.... "Ask Baldie". You're such an excellent resource for the "Old Farts" community and I'm sure others as well.

    Old Bob
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  19. #109
    The show goes on chodan9's Avatar
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    got a cold last month that turned to bronchitis, sidelined me for a week.
    I new better than to train with it though.
    the week off did me good, first one in 8 months (can you say obsessive?)
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  20. #110
    Saved GreenWave1's Avatar
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    Baldie,
    Hope you feel better soon. The weights called, they miss you.
    Jesus is my lifting partner.
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  21. #111
    RON PAUL 2012 BigDaddy33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Baldiewonkanobi View Post
    My oldest grandson is 21 and only cares about "experiencing" every sorority girl at U. Mich.

    Well, Im sure then he is getting some lifting, and definatly some cardio!! LOL

    Hope you are doing well, I agree, a coloum or book, or thread. I'd get 'em!!
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  22. #112
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    I had a series of articles published in the late 80s thru the early 90s with Muscle Mag (and one or two with IronMan). I think they somehow own the content. That was a left over from my "altered" days. Just plow into something without thinking it thru...like keeping the literary property for myself. Over the last 2-3 years I have snuck most of it here in under Baldsnake (before being banned) and my current handle. An advantage to being on this planet so long and around gyms since the mid 50s is that I have either seen it all or done it. Nothing is really new.

    Baldiewonmethussla
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  23. #113
    The show goes on chodan9's Avatar
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    anonymity

    I was posting on a thread a while back and mentioned that I was in AA, the next day I had a PM telling me that AA is an anoymous program.
    I was curious on others opinions here.
    here is how I see it.
    our traditions state we are anonymous in press, radio and films. I do not consider an internet message board any of those things. I don't worry about my own anonymity as it relates to personal communications, verbally or online or in written letters etc, I will not break another members anonymity though, nor would I broadcast my membership in on TV radio etc, even though there is no rule against it.

    I know some folks guard there own membership, but I do not, my employer knows I am a recovering alcoholic/addict and I will talk about it freely when asked.
    Heck, when I decided I was an alcoholic and addict it became unanimous in my town LOL
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  24. #114
    - Dum Spiro Spero - bjc12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Baldiewonkanobi View Post
    I find myself still riddled with OCDs. From my first day of sobriety they have ranged from diet to tanning, expensive hobbies, anabolics to extreme "natural" supplimentation. Nothing mind altering but some very unhealthy (Melanoma skin cancer) or wallet draining. In most everything I do I am all in or forgedaboudidt. This drives my bride bonkers. The one constant OC I have is a good disorder...training. Sick or in a cast I WILL find a way to train.

    I have had some say that I am not truly sober yet due to my OCDs. I say bullchit....I am very very sober. OCDs and mind altering drugs and alcohol addiction are seperate. There it is the chemical that is in control.

    Thoughts??
    Wow, these people must be the picture of perfection to say things, and i remember from my early days in aa isn't there a phrase, "PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION"?! I agree that the drugs and alcohol are only a part of the problem, but to say that someone isn't sober due to there ocd is pretty ridiculous and ignorant. Once you put the drugs down you are clean not once you have mastered life. A lot of people in my area tend to forget that these are 12 step programs. The steps help with ongoing issues and the behaviors that contributed towards our using. Thats why they say recovery is a journey not a destination, there is always something for us to be working on in our lives. I have done things that i am not proud of since getting clean but will be damned if someone tells me I am not clean.


    Awesome to be accepted amongst you guys regardless of my youth and to be part of great group of guys helping each other out!
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    Originally Posted by bjc12 View Post


    Awesome to be accepted amongst you guys regardless of my youth and to be part of great group of guys helping each other out!
    hey
    your the same age I was when got started in sobriety!

    way to go!
    No need to wait another 20 or 30 years to figure out something is wrong!
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  26. #116
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    [QUOTE=chodan9;269181921]I was posting on a thread a while back and mentioned that I was in AA, the next day I had a PM telling me that AA is an anoymous program.
    I was curious on others opinions here.
    here is how I see it.
    our traditions state we are anonymous in press, radio and films. I do not consider an internet message board any of those things. I don't worry about my own anonymity as it relates to personal communications, verbally or online or in written letters etc, I will not break another members anonymity though, nor would I broadcast my membership in on TV radio etc, even though there is no rule against it.

    My personal of this tradition is more protection of our prospective fellowships then our personal protection. For example if I am on tv saying am clean and part of na then something happens and i relapse, the average person will get the thought " well na doesn't work". This was it protects the fellowships reputation because no one person should represent the whole program. As far as the press, radio, and films, I think they are mentioned simply because they are largest forms of mass media, i don't feel that addressing a few of us on a message board is a problem. If you were the guy on the frontpage of the website with your story that would be different. i believe that it is our personal decision who we reveal ourselves to, as long as it is not in a manner that could negatively affect the fellowship. Just my personal take on it.

    I think my whole town pretty much knew i was an addict before i realized it. People can be pretty judgmental and still have their predisposed opinions of us though regardless of how we are living now , so there are some that just don't need to know. I speak for a youth prevention program and for various high schools and I make sure to keep those things separate from the fellowship. They know I am in a twelve step fellowship but i am not representing it by speaking, just someone who used to use and doesn't now.
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  27. #117
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    Originally Posted by chodan9 View Post
    hey
    your the same age I was when got started in sobriety!

    way to go!
    No need to wait another 20 or 30 years to figure out something is wrong!
    thanks man! appreciate it!
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  28. #118
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    Originally Posted by bjc12 View Post
    I speak for a youth prevention program and for various high schools and I make sure to keep those things separate from the fellowship. They know I am in a twelve step fellowship but i am not representing it by speaking, just someone who used to use and doesn't now.
    I have done some speaking in the past at schools, chuch meetings and public events, but only as a recovering person, not as a representative of AA or NA.

    now if someone comes up afterward and asks I will tell them where I go.
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  29. #119
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    Originally Posted by chodan9 View Post
    our traditions state we are anonymous in press, radio and films.
    we drunks cannot agree on anything. it's like herding cats into a wheelbarrow, don't you know?

    i think we are fine. if you were plastering your full name all over the place, i'd say the line was crossed. but chodan9 or boathead is not the type of thing the tradition was meant to proscribe, imo. and, a tradition governs the actions of groups, not the individuals.

    if people got to anal about things, how would the message ever get out there? which, by the way, is one of the steps

    during the sentencing for my last (hopefully) dwi, it came out that i was part of aa. the press the next day reported it. when i got out of jail, i raised the issue with the paper editor. i mentioned that generally the press respects aa's anonymity position, and i thought that perhaps the reporter could have, without materially changing the reporting of facts, omitted the a.a. reference. oh well. i try not to get to up in arms about things anymore.
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  30. #120
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    I'm not in AA or NA, is it okay that I use my real name?

    I'm not ashamed. I don't broadcast the fact that I am a recovering addict (except on here), but I reveal it when I feel it is appropriate. In this case, I wanted to contribute and participate, so I put it out there. If someone reads it and holds it against me, well, that's their problem.

    I have walked the path that I have walked, seen the things I've seen. It is through the Lord that I am still here, and have risen above the pain.
    Jesus is my lifting partner.
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