!!!PEAter checks out Phenethylamine!!!

[Peter LeDrew]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine


Thanks to Cognitive Nutrition for sponsoring this log with CN's 60 caps 750mg PEA product: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/uniq/peaultra.html

I have used PEA in multi-ingredient formulas before such as VelocityXT, REDuction and also it is in PreSurge which I am running pre-workout right now.

I will mostly be experimenting with doses, timing and in conjunction with other compounds. I do have a sometimes stressful job and there are times when I will try and take advantage of PEA's advertised effects: Helps Maintain Concentration, Mood, And Alertness!

These are the claimed physiological effects of PEA:
Neurochemical Effects:
Neuromodulator of catecholamine activity. (Enhances the transmission of dopamine and norepinephrine)
AMPA receptor stimulant (increases acetylcholine release through the glutamatergic system)


I may allow my girlfriend to try this out a couple times to see what she thinks.


1st dosing was actually done a few days ago and I have already done some experimenting:

1st day:
750mg with a small meal in the afternoon by itself: Never really noticed much or what I was hoping for/expecting. It is possible there was a small mood effect, but it wasn't significant. No sides.


2nd Day:
750mgPEA + 2.5mg Deprenyl + 60mg Ginkgo + 600mg Tyrosine + 500mg ALCAR + 250mg CDP-Choline + 400mg SAMe = Whoa!!!


A little too intense at one point, but ~15-20mins into dosing, this was def. noticeable... I was very talkative, energetic and social... what i would think taking speed would be like! I was in a good mood and this lasted quite awhile, but the buzz was very intense for about 10mins and I was almost feeling too buzzed. Slight headache and hyper feeling, but that quickly died just like it came... I was in a good mood most of the morning and afternoon. Not sure how much was related to PEA after effects.

Yesterday, I did the above with the exception of ALCAR and SAMe and with a small meal. The buzz wasn't there, but it was a subtle mood enhancing effect I believe... Was in a good mood most of the day.

Today I think I will try 1500mg if others think this is ok to do... I'll go into the other PEA logs seeing what others are doing... I also want to try this with PreSurge for a possible synergy with a couple ingredients there and then enhance the mind-muscle connection on top of the PEA already in PreSurge.

I have a little knowledge of PEA, but this is the first single PEA product I have tried. My experience is pretty modest with it, but I like the potential. It is rapidly metabolized by the enzyme MAO-B, so I think looking for compounds that inhibit the enzyme will def. enhance it. ie. Deprenyl.

[kingjameskjf]

I'm interested to see your results and will be following along. sub'd

[Squat2Grow]

I'm subbed in!! I do not have any experience matching PEA with deprenyl (yet at least ) so I am going to wait till Steve comes in to give some advice.

I do know a great dose of PEA without deprenyl is 1.5g followed up with 750mg 10-15 minutes later! the less food/fluids you have in your stomach the greater the effect will be.

"2nd Day:
750mgPEA + 2.5mg Deprenyl + 60mg Ginkgo + 600mg Tyrosine + 500mg ALCAR + 250mg CDP-Choline + 400mg SAMe = Whoa!!! " damn man, I can see how that was intense!!!

I'm looking forward to what Steve has to say about everything!! (And I like what you did with the title, PEAter! LOL)

[Peter LeDrew]

I'm subbed in!! I do not have any experience matching PEA with deprenyl (yet at least ) so I am going to wait till Steve comes in to give some advice.

I do know a great dose of PEA without deprenyl is 1.5g followed up with 750mg 10-15 minutes later! the less food/fluids you have in your stomach the greater the effect will be.

"2nd Day:
750mgPEA + 2.5mg Deprenyl + 60mg Ginkgo + 600mg Tyrosine + 500mg ALCAR + 250mg CDP-Choline + 400mg SAMe = Whoa!!! " damn man, I can see how that was intense!!!

I'm looking forward to what Steve has to say about everything!! (And I like what you did with the title, PEAter! LOL)

Yeah, that was on an empty stomach too! (water)

Tomorrow I will likely try 750mg on waking and then 750mg 15mins later on an empty stomach.

[marcodeniro]

I Have never tried with samE or deprenyl . However I am fan of using alcar asparctic acid b6 b12 glycine tyrosine alpha gpc with my PEA doses and have gotten kick ass Buzzes . Gaba is good at night Caffeine intensifies it and gingko. Couple of times I am going to call it "THE HIGH" went on for at least an hour

[marcodeniro]

I have taken large doses with food and that kind of kills "THe High" however the smiles and good mood is still in effect

[Peter LeDrew]

I have taken large doses with food and that kind of kills "THe High" however the smiles and good mood is still in effect

I am sure many think you have to feel a high or buzz to say it is doing something or working, but I am open to the belief that there could be a subtle mood boosting effect beyond that... I'm going to keep that in mind throughout.

[marcodeniro]

How we weild and use it is up to us. Me personally like the mood effects . I used it going out one night and had a great time check my log out page 2. Smiled all night. I am still exploring certain aspects and how I want to try to hone or explore the buzz i get.

[CognitiveNutrition]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine


Thanks to Cognitive Nutrition for sponsoring this log with CN's 60 caps 750mg PEA product: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/uniq/peaultra.html

I have used PEA in multi-ingredient formulas before such as VelocityXT, REDuction and also it is in PreSurge which I am running pre-workout right now.

I will mostly be experimenting with doses, timing and in conjunction with other compounds. I do have a sometimes stressful job and there are times when I will try and take advantage of PEA's advertised effects: Helps Maintain Concentration, Mood, And Alertness!

These are the claimed physiological effects of PEA:
Neurochemical Effects:
Neuromodulator of catecholamine activity. (Enhances the transmission of dopamine and norepinephrine)
AMPA receptor stimulant (increases acetylcholine release through the glutamatergic system)


I may allow my girlfriend to try this out a couple times to see what she thinks.


1st dosing was actually done a few days ago and I have already done some experimenting:

1st day:
750mg with a small meal in the afternoon by itself: Never really noticed much or what I was hoping for/expecting. It is possible there was a small mood effect, but it wasn't significant. No sides.


2nd Day:
750mgPEA + 2.5mg Deprenyl + 60mg Ginkgo + 600mg Tyrosine + 500mg ALCAR + 250mg CDP-Choline + 400mg SAMe = Whoa!!!


A little too intense at one point, but ~15-20mins into dosing, this was def. noticeable... I was very talkative, energetic and social... what i would think taking speed would be like! I was in a good mood and this lasted quite awhile, but the buzz was very intense for about 10mins and I was almost feeling too buzzed. Slight headache and hyper feeling, but that quickly died just like it came... I was in a good mood most of the morning and afternoon. Not sure how much was related to PEA after effects.

Yesterday, I did the above with the exception of ALCAR and SAMe and with a small meal. The buzz wasn't there, but it was a subtle mood enhancing effect I believe... Was in a good mood most of the day.

Today I think I will try 1500mg if others think this is ok to do... I'll go into the other PEA logs seeing what others are doing... I also want to try this with PreSurge for a possible synergy with a couple ingredients there and then enhance the mind-muscle connection on top of the PEA already in PreSurge.

I have a little knowledge of PEA, but this is the first single PEA product I have tried. My experience is pretty modest with it, but I like the potential. It is rapidly metabolized by the enzyme MAO-B, so I think looking for compounds that inhibit the enzyme will def. enhance it. ie. Deprenyl.

1. I would never take pea with food. 2-3 hours after or 30 mins before.
2. I would not advise using deprenyl during this log (although it's effects are going to lasts weeks from your last dose) as you would not be feeling and reporting the effects of PEA for this log but deprenyl/pea.
3. Because you are on deprenyl very careful with your PEA dose. I would take 750 mg tomorrow morning on an empty stomach and then go from there. Any food will greatly reduce it's effects.

Interesting log start so far!

[Peter LeDrew]

1. I would never take pea with food. 2-3 hours after or 30 mins before.
2. I would not advise using deprenyl during this log (although it's effects are going to lasts weeks from your last dose) as you would not be feeling and reporting the effects of PEA for this log but deprenyl/pea.
3. Because you are on deprenyl very careful with your PEA dose. I would take 750 mg tomorrow morning on an empty stomach and then go from there. Any food will greatly reduce it's effects.

Interesting log start so far!

Thanks for your experienced input on PEA! I will post later... on my way to the gym.

[iForce_Pete]

What is up Peter? PEA is good stuff this Peter liked it too

[CognitiveNutrition]

Thanks for your experienced input on PEA! I will post later... on my way to the gym.

Have a great workout! I'm sure we can get you on an ideal dosing protocol asap.

[Peter LeDrew]

Sorry for the lack of updates here... This PEA stuff hits hard sometimes... wow. I'll be posting up some experiences here soon.

[Squat2Grow]

No problem Peter... Looking forward to hearing some experiences and it can be quite intense huh?

[Peter LeDrew]

No problem Peter... Looking forward to hearing some experiences and it can be quite intense huh?

Holy shiat!!! On an empty stomach the differences are HUGE!!! I took 750mg on an empty stomach this morning and I was sure I wasn't going to feel anything as it took longer to kick in than I expected for some reason, but once it did, I was buzzed out like crazy for a about 10-15mins.

I'll post some other experiences after I get back from the gym... I would love to read some studies on this and more on the effects on the brain.

[Squat2Grow]

Holy shiat!!! On an empty stomach the differences are HUGE!!! I took 750mg on an empty stomach this morning and I was sure I wasn't going to feel anything as it took longer to kick in than I expected for some reason, but once it did, I was buzzed out like crazy for a about 10-15mins.

I'll post some other experiences after I get back from the gym... I would love to read some studies on this and more on the effects on the brain.

Heh an empty stomach vs even a slightly full stomach can make night and day differences I wonder how 1,500mg + 1 more cap 10 minutes later would have fared for you!!

Grabbing some studies now, will post in a bit

[Squat2Grow]

Thursday, 27 September, 2001, 00:50 GMT 01:50 UK
Why exercise cheers you up


Exercise benefits the mind as well as the body

Scientists may have identified a chemical which could explain why exercise is an anti-depressant.
Until now, it has not been clear why exercise has that effect.

But, doctors from Nottingham Trent University suggest the chemical phenylethylamine could play a part.

Phenylethylamine is a naturally produced chemical that has been linked to the regulation of physical energy, mood and attention.

Physical exercise has a valid place in the treatment and prevention of some mental health problems

Spokeswoman for Mind
An enzyme changes the chemical into phenylacetic acid. There is evidence that levels of both substances are low in the biological fluids of depressed patients.

In what are thought to be the first attempts to test the effects of exercise on levels of the chemical, the researchers found, overall, levels of the acid increased by 77% after exercise.

Exercise

Twenty healthy men, with an average age of 22 were tested.

All regularly did around four hours of moderate to hard aerobic and anaerobic exercise each week.

Before the study began, they refrained from exercise for a day, and a urine test was done to check for levels of levels of phenylacetic acid, the most accurate measurement of the chemical.

The next, the men exercised on a treadmill at 70% of their maximum heart rate capacity for 30 minutes.

Doctors chose that level because mood changes are commonly reported at that level.

The men were also asked to rate how hard they had found the exercise.

When urine levels were checked, it was found phenylacetic acid levels were increased in 18 out of the 20 participants.

Though the average increase in levels was 77%, the increases in individuals ranged from 14 to 572%.

But the highest rises were seen in two out of the three who had rated the exercise as hard

Research possibilities

The research team say though there may be many factors involved in the phenylacetic acid response, because its chemical structure is very similar to that of amphetamines, it may be that this chemical is part of a "runner's high", a phenomenon linked to natural endorphin activity in the brain.

They suggest phenylacetic acid could also be important because it can cross from the blood to the brain, something endorphins cannot do.

Dr Ellen Billet, who was one of the team of researchers from Nottingham Trent who carried out the research, told BBC News Online: "We felt there may be an effect of exercise on phenylethylamine."

GPs can prescribe a drug based on the chemical which is known to have beneficial effects on patients.

Dr Billet said: "We also know that moderate exercise has these beneficial effects.

"So we wondered 'what if this was how exercise works'".

She said more research needed to be done to develop their initial finding, including why different people's phenylethylamine levels are affected in different ways by exercise and if different kinds of exercise have the same effects.

But she said people should still exercise, because of its benefits on both mental and physical health.

"This could be used as and adjunct."

A spokeswoman for the mental health charity Mind said: "Physical exercise has a valid place in the treatment and prevention of some mental health problems.

"In a recent Mind survey of Cannons gym users, 75 % said they exercised to reduce their stress levels and 67% said they used exercise to maintain their mental health, like lifting 'low' moods.

"Mind is calling for all GPs to offer exercise sessions on prescription to patients with mental health problems, particularly as we know that most people with mental health problems don't know this non-drug 'treatment' option exists."

The research was published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine.

[Squat2Grow]

This means Ritalin main mode of action is by increasing PEA levels which makes sense this low PEA levels is a cause/factor in ADHD/ADD.

Increased urine phenylethylamine after methylphenidate treatment in children with ADHD

Akira Kusaga, MD 1, Yushiro Yama****a, MD 1, Tastuya Koeda, MD 2, Michio Hiratani, MD 3, Mika Kaneko, MD 1, Shigeto Yamada, MD 4, Toyojiro Matsuishi, MD 1 *
1Department of Pediatrics and Child Health, Kurume University School of Medicine, Kurume City, Japan
2Faculty of Education and Regional Sciences, Tottori University, Tottori City, Japan
3Hiratani Clinic for Developmental Disorders of Children, Fukui City, Japan
4Department of Psychiatry, Saga Medical School, Saga City, Japan

email: Toyojiro Matsuishi (tmatsu@med.kurume-u.ac.jp)

*Correspondence to Toyojiro Matsuishi, Department of Pediatrics and Child Health, Kurume University School of Medicine, Kurume City, Japan

Abstract
The urine levels of -phenylethylamine, 3-methoxy-4-hydroxyphenyl glycol, homovanillic acid, and 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid were measured to clarify the neurochemical mechanism in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. -Phenylethylamine levels were significantly lower in attention deficit hyperactivity disorder individuals (n = 37) than in controls (n = 21). The 22 children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder were treated with methylphenidate, and they were further divided into methylphenidate responders (n = 18) and nonresponders (n = 4). -Phenylethylamine levels significantly increased after methylphenidate therapy in responders, whereas they did not increase in nonresponders.

[Squat2Grow]

I have a study on PEA being a "possible mediator for THC induced stimulation" but it is in PDF format. I could always e-mail it to you or get you the link to where it will be (it is on a separate forum that requires user registration, if you'd like it just PM me and I will send it out )

[CognitiveNutrition]

Holy shiat!!! On an empty stomach the differences are HUGE!!! I took 750mg on an empty stomach this morning and I was sure I wasn't going to feel anything as it took longer to kick in than I expected for some reason, but once it did, I was buzzed out like crazy for a about 10-15mins.

I'll post some other experiences after I get back from the gym... I would love to read some studies on this and more on the effects on the brain.

HAha nice response Peter!
How would you compare how you felt to any other compounds at 1 cap?
Did you want to increase to 2 caps or was it too intense?

[Peter LeDrew]

Interesting readings! Thanks.


Today I dosed 750mg and then an hr later another 750mg all on an empty stomach... never got any buzz feelings or the like, but decent mood...

I have dosed PEA with several compounds lately and I need to try and discern which work with it and what dose, etc... I am thinking when I dose SAMe i get a stronger response... not sure about Tyrosine and a couple other things...

Interesting about caffeine free coffee and the MAO-B inhibiting compounds... I'll def. try this at some point.

I will try 1500mg at once on an empty stomach sometime... think today is ok to do this again?

Once I find the PEA solo dose that works best for me, I am going to start introducing other ingredients one at a time.

I am also doing a PreSurge log and will add a dose of PEA at some point pre-workout.

[Squat2Grow]

Your welcome

In regards to your 750 + 750mg dose the reason why you didn't get any euphoric buzzes is because MAO-b broke down too much of it before entering your brain. People will generally feel the euphoric brain buzzes at the 1500mg level++

You can go ahead and do 1,500mg today but I'd go an extra step further and take 1 more cap 10 minutes later. This will prolong and enhance the effect.

Looking forward to seeing how that dose works for and I am interested in how it is going to react with different compounds for you.

Good luck!!!

[Peter LeDrew]

Your welcome

In regards to your 750 + 750mg dose the reason why you didn't get any euphoric buzzes is because MAO-b broke down too much of it before entering your brain. People will generally feel the euphoric brain buzzes at the 1500mg level++

You can go ahead and do 1,500mg today but I'd go an extra step further and take 1 more cap 10 minutes later. This will prolong and enhance the effect.

Looking forward to seeing how that dose works for and I am interested in how it is going to react with different compounds for you.

Good luck!!!

Well we will see! I might not need the xtra 750mg, but I'll let you know what I do.

[Squat2Grow]

Well we will see! I might not need the xtra 750mg, but I'll let you know what I do.

Heh you can try without it to compare to a day with it if you'd like. I find the extra cap prolongs the effects for me as well as others.

[Peter LeDrew]

Just took 1500mg... unfortunately I couldn't avoid not eating 20mins previous as I was starving!!

We'll see, if I notice nothing I'll add 750mg in 15mins... real time posting!

[SMac2347]

Just took 1500mg... unfortunately I couldn't avoid not eating 20mins previous as I was starving!!

We'll see, if I notice nothing I'll add 750mg in 15mins... real time posting!

Just noticed this log, subbed for sure...how you feeling?

[Peter LeDrew]

Just noticed this log, subbed for sure...how you feeling?

Ok, I had no idea what to expect, but I am in a great mood... No buzz whatsoever even though I was worried it might be too intense... After 20mins of not feeling the rush, I added another 750mg and despite feeling great, no intense feelings as I experienced on an empty stomach... I consumer quite a few calories so this was likely the reason I didn't feel the intense PEA buzz/rush.

btw, what is the purpose of this buzz/rush? Is it really needed to benefit from PEA? Are there other benefits beyond just a buzz?

There just doesn't seem to be much info regarding the effects of PEA and benefits, possible negatives, etc...

Is this increasing dopamine? Seems It doesn't seem to last very long judging by the reported short-half life of ~10mins. What purpose does PEA serve if it is so short acting? Are there other benefits?

Here is one interesting site I came across and when I get more time I'll do some more reading:
http://www.chocolate.org/pea.htm

Sustained antidepressant
effect of PEA replacement
by
Sabelli H; Fink P; Fawcett J; Tom C
Rush University and the Center for
Creative Development, Chicago, Illinois, USA.
J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci, 1996 Spr, 8:2, 168-71


ABSTRACT
Phenylethylamine (PEA), an endogenous neuroamine, increases attention and activity in animals and has been shown to relieve depression in 60% of depressed patients. It has been proposed that PEA deficit may be the cause of a common form of depressive illness. Fourteen patients with major depressive episodes that responded to PEA treatment (10-60 mg orally per day, with 10 mg/day selegiline to prevent rapid PEA destruction) were reexamined 20 to 50 weeks later. The antidepressant response had been maintained in 12 patients. Effective dosage did not change with time. There were no apparent side effects. PEA produces sustained relief of depression in a significant number of patients, including some unresponsive to the standard treatments. PEA improves mood as rapidly as amphetamine but does not produce tolerance.


Keep in mind, this study used a very low dose and combined it with a relatively high dose of Deprenyl (selegiline).

[CognitiveNutrition]

Interesting readings! Thanks.


Today I dosed 750mg and then an hr later another 750mg all on an empty stomach... never got any buzz feelings or the like, but decent mood...

I have dosed PEA with several compounds lately and I need to try and discern which work with it and what dose, etc... I am thinking when I dose SAMe i get a stronger response... not sure about Tyrosine and a couple other things...

Interesting about caffeine free coffee and the MAO-B inhibiting compounds... I'll def. try this at some point.

I will try 1500mg at once on an empty stomach sometime... think today is ok to do this again?

Once I find the PEA solo dose that works best for me, I am going to start introducing other ingredients one at a time.

I am also doing a PreSurge log and will add a dose of PEA at some point pre-workout.

I would never take a 2nd dose anymore than 10 mins apart as your body metabolized all of it before it could reach your brain to have strong effects. I would suggest any dose you do be split in 2 parts.

Just took 1500mg... unfortunately I couldn't avoid not eating 20mins previous as I was starving!!

We'll see, if I notice nothing I'll add 750mg in 15mins... real time posting!

You would probably have to take a much higher dose to overwhelm the possible excess MAO-B created by food to have a strong effect.

Ok, I had no idea what to expect, but I am in a great mood... No buzz whatsoever even though I was worried it might be too intense... After 20mins of not feeling the rush, I added another 750mg and despite feeling great, no intense feelings as I experienced on an empty stomach... I consumer quite a few calories so this was likely the reason I didn't feel the intense PEA buzz/rush.

btw, what is the purpose of this buzz/rush? Is it really needed to benefit from PEA? Are there other benefits beyond just a buzz?

There just doesn't seem to be much info regarding the effects of PEA and benefits, possible negatives, etc...

Is this increasing dopamine? Seems It doesn't seem to last very long judging by the reported short-half life of ~10mins. What purpose does PEA serve if it is so short acting? Are there other benefits?

Here is one interesting site I came across and when I get more time I'll do some more reading:
http://www.chocolate.org/pea.htm

Sustained antidepressant
effect of PEA replacement
by
Sabelli H; Fink P; Fawcett J; Tom C
Rush University and the Center for
Creative Development, Chicago, Illinois, USA.
J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci, 1996 Spr, 8:2, 168-71


ABSTRACT
Phenylethylamine (PEA), an endogenous neuroamine, increases attention and activity in animals and has been shown to relieve depression in 60% of depressed patients. It has been proposed that PEA deficit may be the cause of a common form of depressive illness. Fourteen patients with major depressive episodes that responded to PEA treatment (10-60 mg orally per day, with 10 mg/day selegiline to prevent rapid PEA destruction) were reexamined 20 to 50 weeks later. The antidepressant response had been maintained in 12 patients. Effective dosage did not change with time. There were no apparent side effects. PEA produces sustained relief of depression in a significant number of patients, including some unresponsive to the standard treatments. PEA improves mood as rapidly as amphetamine but does not produce tolerance.


Keep in mind, this study used a very low dose and combined it with a relatively high dose of Deprenyl (selegiline).

The buzz is when you've taken a high enough dose to reach the brain and stimulate your trace amine receptors to a strong enough degree. While you don't need it to benefit many people enjoy it.

There's massive research done on PEA's function and effects in the brain. Pm me if you would like a few good research articles.

PEA does not seem to cause an increase in dopamine levels however it does release some dopamine and act as a brief and short acting dopamine agonist in higher doses.

The half-life just represents the effects of PEA itself rather than it's metabolites which are active or it's effects after TAR stimulation.

PEA's role in the brain is to maintain focus, mood, and several other areas of importance. It's usually released/increased as needed. When people have very low levels this is usually a major factor in depression and ADHD.

Amphetamines, alcohol, Ritalin, cannabis, etc all work in large part by raising PEA levels as their mode of action.

There are several benefits from PEA direct and it's metabolites, namely a strong antistress effect which many of our loggers report.

[Peter LeDrew]

I would never take a 2nd dose anymore than 10 mins apart as your body metabolized all of it before it could reach your brain to have strong effects. I would suggest any dose you do be split in 2 parts.



You would probably have to take a much higher dose to overwhelm the possible excess MAO-B created by food to have a strong effect.



The buzz is when you've taken a high enough dose to reach the brain and stimulate your trace amine receptors to a strong enough degree. While you don't need it to benefit many people enjoy it.

There's massive research done on PEA's function and effects in the brain. Pm me if you would like a few good research articles.

PEA does not seem to cause an increase in dopamine levels however it does release some dopamine and act as a brief and short acting dopamine agonist in higher doses.

The half-life just represents the effects of PEA itself rather than it's metabolites which are active or it's effects after TAR stimulation.

PEA's role in the brain is to maintain focus, mood, and several other areas of importance. It's usually released/increased as needed. When people have very low levels this is usually a major factor in depression and ADHD.

Amphetamines, alcohol, Ritalin, cannabis, etc all work in large part by raising PEA levels as their mode of action.

There are several benefits from PEA direct and it's metabolites, namely a strong antistress effect which many of our loggers report.

Great response! Appreciated... Interesting stuff.

[CognitiveNutrition]

Great response! Appreciated... Interesting stuff.

Peter you are worth the best response I can give. I really give it to you for your efforts on this forum to seek out truth and give out help.