Superdrol vs. Havoc

[willetts]

I was wondering which you would recommend (in terms of gains, sid effects, etc.)...

Superdrol or RPN Havoc.

[dirtdogg]

did you research anything about these two?? If not I would do so .......

[POPPERSTRIKE]

Superdrol

[willetts]

any reason why some sites sell superdrol for like $199 while others sell it for $35?

[SPACECLOWN]

SD - get a clone
Which is better is to early to know. Havoc is to new.

[willetts]

Is EST Methyl Vol a good SD clone?

[bongd]

I would personally go with SNS's SD or PP clones. SNS is top notch and has some of the best board reps on this site.

[willetts]

where can i get Nolva?

[VaughnTrue]

where can i get Nolva?

can't give you a straight answer on that one man...no source checking on the board. look into research chemicals or even tamoxifen citrate if you're really ambitious...;-)

[SoMdHunter]

SD - get a clone
Which is better is to early to know. Havoc is to new.

Here is what I have managed to find out about it. I got this from a site I am a vet at.



Epitiostanol is a relatively obscure steroid used for breast cancer that is only available in Japan. Again you might say, “How does a drug used for breast cancer work for us extreme fitness types?” Well, Epitiostanol was actually developed back in the 1960’s and has an
extremely good anabolic/androgenic ratio. This means that it causes a whole host of positive effects in the body with minimal negative androgenic effects. The reason it was used for breast cancer is that it was shown to exert a potent anti-estrogenic effect which halted the progression of estrogen-stimulated cancers. What wonderful characteristics to have in a steroid! Great muscle growth with small androgenic phenomenon with no estrogenic problems like gyno…sounds like the perfect steroid!

Well, the Japanese company Shionogi thought so too but they wanted a characteristic that epitiostanol lacked—significant oral bioavailability. The smart people at this company went back into the literature and found that 17B steroidal ethers caused a significant increase in oral bioavailability. They used the ether technology and voila, they created Mepitiostane. Fortunately, they didn’t stop there! They decided to
elucidate just how these ethers work. Read below for the story!

The Shionogi research team began their quest by asking the question as to what possible ways could the ether group be increasing bioavailability. They realized that orally administered drugs and nutrients are transferred to the systemic circulation via the portal and/or lymphatic route following passage through the mucosal cell of the intestinal lumen. They also understood that the portal route is considered to be the main route for compounds absorbed from the intestines because blood flow is about 500 times greater than lymph flow in capillaries of the villus.

Thus they first looked at the portal route and asked whether the ether group on the steroid could be preventing the steroid from being metabolized by the liver. They looked at the characteristics of the molecule and decided that this was probably not the right answer.

Although not the primary place of absorption of most compounds, the intestinal lymphatic system is known to play an important role in the absorption of some compounds such as long chain fatty acids, triglycerides and lipid soluble vitamins. A compound absorbed via intestinal lymphatics directly enters the systemic circulation at the level of the subclavian vein which avoids first pass metabolism of the compound through the liver.

With this in mind, our good friends at Shionogi decided to look here for their answers. Hey, all I can say is that these guys were right on the money! Using radioactive labeling of both Epitiostanol and Mepitiostane, they found that Epitiostanol is almost entirely absorbed via the portal route while mepitiostane is almost entirely absorbed via the lymphatic route. Bingo!

One of the most fascinating things that I noticed in their research was that there are literally a multitude of factors that determine the bioavailability of orally consumed steroids. Intestinal absorption usually refers to the process of uptake of a compound from the site of absorption into the systemic circulation. This process includes the penetration through the epithelial cells, metabolism in the epithelial cells and transfer from the epithelial cells into the portal vein or lymphatics. Any or all of these processes can significantly cause inhibition of absorption of the parent compound. I have heard for quite some time from various sources that methandrostenolone (Dianabol) works much better when taken orally than injected. I used to scoff at this but now I might be in a position to believe what I heard. You see, there is quite a bit of research which shows that anabolic steroids undergo significant metabolism in the epithelial cells. Consequently, ingested methandrostenolone, as well as other orally administered steroids, could possibly be significantly converted into other active species with highly different characteristics before it even reaches the liver!

In the magazines and advertisements, we hear all the time that taking so and so amount of prohormone will give you thus and thus blood levels of that particular steroid. They base this simply by saying that a certain predefined percentage makes it through unmetabolized by the liver. They do not consider the facts that a great amount might not get absorbed by the epithelial cells nor do they take into consideration the fact that much might get metabolized into either more or less active species. Basically, the whole situation is quite complex and cannot be simplified with such a sophomoric formula.

I also want to bring up the point again of how important it is to have a proper delivery system to cause increased penetration/absorption in the epithelial cells. I dug up a bunch of research which shows that without any type of delivery system as much as 50% of the ingested steroid can be unabsorbed. You can guess what happens to this unabsorbed steroid! Into the toilet my friend; into the toilet!!!

After Shionogi showed that steroidal ethers are absorbed in the lymphatic system, they did a series of studies which determined exactly what was responsible for lymphatic versus portal partitioning. Please understand that when the steroid is absorbed into the epithelial cell it is PARTITIONED or directed into either the portal vein or the lymphatic system. I already know what you are asking, “What determines the partitioning?”

It is a phenomenon called SUPERLIPOPHILICITY! If you remember correctly fatty acids and triglycerides are almost completely absorbed into the lymph. Superlipophilicity makes the compound associate so strongly with triglycerides and fatty acids that it absorbs in a similar fashion. During absorption, superlipophilic compounds become incorporated into the core lipids of chylomicrons in the intestinal mucosal cells of the intestinal mucosa. These fatty chylomicrons are then transferred almost exclusively into the lymphatic system (including the steroidal ethers).

It is available at www.epistane.com

[willetts]

can't give you a straight answer on that one man...no source checking on the board. look into research chemicals or even tamoxifen citrate if you're really ambitious...;-)

all the sites ive tried require prescriptions. is there any way u could pm me?

[Big_Spaz]

all the sites ive tried require prescriptions. is there any way u could pm me?

No one can give you sources, but you need to do a search on "research chemicals".





-Spaz

[TheNorthFace]

Google Tamoxifen Citrate and research chemicals. Innovation is the key to life.

[391rippy]

toremifene > tamoxifen. when it comes to sources for chems, there is one research site that comes to mind.

[SPACECLOWN]

Thanks SoMdHunter for the info. I have been following some logs to.

[ElMariachi]

Havoc seems like it would be a heck of a lot safer, especially considering some of the tester blood results that have come back. It is not nearly as hepatoxic as the others, and seems to be far more benign when it comes to elevating blood pressure and LDL levels.

[SoMdHunter]

Thanks SoMdHunter for the info. I have been following some logs to.

Glad ya found it helpful.

[SPACECLOWN]

I would be curious to see if people stack this with PP like many did/do with SD. Thats the log I want to see.

[SoMdHunter]

I would be curious to see if people stack this with PP like many did/do with SD. Thats the log I want to see.

I would like to see results of this as a stand alone! That would be cool! Can't rep ya again bro.....system won't let me. Thanks for the reps!

[ericpdell2]

The reason why its range in price is so diffeent is because its no longer in production and sites are selling what they have left over. I sure would like to know who is still selling it for $35.00 lol... cause most of the SD users would be all over it.

[ElMariachi]

The reason why its range in price is so diffeent is because its no longer in production and sites are selling what they have left over. I sure would like to know who is still selling it for $35.00 lol... cause most of the SD users would be all over it.

There is generic Superdrol available, you know that right???? On this very site at that.

[QuietKhaos]

Epitiostanol is a relatively obscure steroid used for breast cancer that is only available in Japan. Again you might say, “How does a drug used for breast cancer work for us extreme fitness types?” Well, Epitiostanol was actually developed back in the 1960’s and has an
extremely good anabolic/androgenic ratio.

So is Havoc more like a progesterone...if it is then I am out! I don't mix well progesterones like maxlmg or xmass! Havoc looks alot more like SD though

[391rippy]

So is Havoc more like a progesterone...if it is then I am out! I don't mix well progesterones like maxlmg or xmass! Havoc looks alot more like SD though

Havoc is a DHT derivative

[ElMariachi]

So is Havoc more like a progesterone...if it is then I am out! I don't mix well progesterones like maxlmg or xmass! Havoc looks alot more like SD though

Dude, it was used for breast cancer because it works as an ANTI-ESTROGEN, it is not related to a progestin at all. All it means is that you are far less likely to experience gyno or bloating on this than most other designer type steroids, whereas in terms of X-Mass, that was the norm, and not the exception to the rule.

[Steve0178]

There have been a couple of havoc logs over at AM. It seems to be giving similar reslults to sdrol but much less water retention and less sides.

[sonicology]

There have been a couple of havoc logs over at AM. It seems to be giving similar reslults to sdrol but much less water retention and less sides.

yeah one guy even says it is curing his gyno, which is certainly a nice though unusual side from a steroid cycle!

[ElMariachi]

I would certainly recommend Nolva with it though. Even though it doesn't aromatize, I'm not sure just exactly how strong the estrogen supression effects are, but I recommend a SERM especially when coming off of Havoc.