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  1. #1
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Talking Anarchy & Agony - SuffolkPunch's C&P training

    Welcome to my Chaos & Pain style training

    Chaos and Pain is a training methodology invented by this guy:
    http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/

    The routine
    The 'routine' is very flexible but initially I shall be doing 4-5 'heavy' days and 1-2 'GPP' days per week.
    This is based on the Chaos and Pain template as shown here: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/201...ve-got-it.html

    Heavy days will be jump sets of two main exercises for the following exercises/muscle groups:
    - Legs and chest
    - Posterior chain (these exercises naturally include some back and legs) and triceps
    - Shoulders and biceps (optionally including back)
    - (Accessory work will be added to each heavy day as desired)

    GPP days:
    - Supersets or timed sets with light barbells / bodyweight: dips, pullups, power cleans, snatches, clean and jerk, ab wheel from knees
    - Complexes: e.g. The bear
    - Unilateral snatches

    This routine is really for advanced lifters. As a fairly average intermediate, I have come from doing 3-4 days a week so something has to be relaxed at least initially. I shall do the volume and the number of days as prescribed - however I shall keep the weights (intensity) low enough so I can cope. I should get away with this because I am naturally fairly slow twitch dominant.

    The exercises
    Shown with typical rep range

    Legs:
    Box Squat: 10x3
    Front Squat: 10x3
    Back Squat Lockouts: 10x3 or 20x1

    Chest: - I have an issue with BB bench - but I might add 2 board press or floor press at some point
    Weighted Dips: 8x5 or 10x3
    DB Bench Press: 8x5 or 10x3
    Close Grip Bench Press: : 8x5 or 10x3

    -----------------------------------
    Posterior chain:
    Deadlift: 10x3 or 15x1
    Power Clean: 10x3 or 20x1
    Snatch: 10x3 or 20x1 (only for days when I feel bushed)
    Rack Pulls: 10x3 or 15x1

    Triceps:
    Skull Crusher: 10x3 or 8x5
    Band Pushdown: 8x5 or 10x3

    -----------------------------------
    Shoulders:
    Behind Neck Push Press: 10x3 or 20x1
    DB Press: 10x3 or 20x1
    Upright Row: 10x3 or 20x1

    Biceps:
    EZ Bar Curl: 10x3 or 8x5
    Dumbell Curl: 10x3 or 8x5

    Back:
    Pendlay Row: 10x3
    Weighted Chins: 10x3 or 8x5

    -----------------------------------
    Accessory:
    Ab Wheel (feet/band): sets of 5 from feet with band assist or 10-15 from knees
    Hanging Leg Raise: sets of 10-15 with legs as straight as possible
    Pullthrough with bands: sets of 8-15
    L fly - lying or sitting

    I know that dumbells are generally frowned upon but in some cases I have to use them because of my limited equipment
    I reserve the right to add or remove stuff whenever I feel like it

    My details
    Male - 38 - 6'0''
    Ancestry: Polish, Belgian, English
    Weight: 85.5kg
    Bodfat: 13-13.5% estimated
    Maintenance: A typical non workout day: 2700 cals

    Diet:
    - I practice intermittent fasting 16hrs a day.
    - I shall train fasted just before lunch (apart from a dose of whey).
    - I am going to have a flexible diet only monitoring calories and protein grams.
    - I tend to eat a lot of the following:
    - Chicken, pork, beef, ham
    - Wholegrain bread, potatos, wholegrain rice, wholegrain pasta
    - Fruit, vegetables, beans, lentils
    - Cheese, peanut butter - I like milk but I can't digest too much in one go

    Goals:
    I wanna be 90kg @ 10%
    I am going to focus on either slowly gaining or slowly losing weight.
    In the short term I am not happy with my bodyfat levels and will do short gain/lose cycles to get to around 11-12%.

    Equipment:
    I train at home in a small outbuilding, I have:
    - Power rack with chinup bar
    - Oly barbell with about 200kg of weight
    - Oly dumbell handles x4
    - (Inc/Dec)linable bench
    - Some bands
    - The floor is laminate wood but I have some loose boards for deadlifting off or slamming the bar down onto
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  2. #2
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    First workout!

    This is going to be a slow start because I have a strained right front delt and right upper trap - wat this is from I dunno. I blame benching with elbows below body - bad news .

    I am also cutting at the moment. Will probably gain some mass after Easter.

    85.6kg bodyweight
    Calories: 2500

    Jump set 1:
    push press 10x3x50kg
    Weighted Chins 10x3x15kg

    Jump set 2 (would not normally do a jump set here, just some random accessories):
    Band Pushdown 8x5x Green band
    EZ Bar Curl 8x3x45

    This was all quite easy, the weights are fairly conservative because of my shoulder injury - the curls were the only properly demanding exercise today. Good start though I think
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  3. #3
    Creeping Death TexAss's Avatar
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    In.

    Thanks for reminding me about band pushdowns. My left elbow has been a little tweaky lately and usually a good dose of those takes care of it.
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  4. #4
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    Glad to see someone else trying out this program, subbed
    Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=139898123&page=227
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  5. #5
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Hi guys - thanks for taking an interest

    GPP day...

    Weight: 85.8kg

    3 sets of continuous squats for 2 minutes with 40kg. I think I almost got 40 reps on the first set but less on the second two.

    I got a pump in my quads so strong I could barely walk

    4x10 light facepulls with blue band
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  6. #6
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Didn't weigh myself. Easter eating probably spells an end to current weight loss cycle. Time to gain some mass...


    Deadlift 10 x 1 x 150kg
    Skulls 10 x 3 x 42.5kg

    Felt like I could keep going a while. 10x3 or 10x1 seems to be magic, there is almost no buildup of fatigue - 150kg is 91% of my 1RM

    Hanging leg raises - I like to raise my feet so my toes tap the chinup bar - 2x10
    Last edited by SuffolkPunch; 04-06-2010 at 10:53 AM.
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  7. #7
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Had a couple of days off because my shoulder is bad

    If you wanna help out, see thread:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123626841

    Anyway, it's not all bad - this is my first day box squatting
    I can't jump set it because of lack of equipment so I did:

    10 x 3 x 100kg - box squat to parallel

    It was interesting, very different from conventional squat. The weight was a bit light, I could probably manage 110kg.

    Jump set for 10x3:
    - weighted dips + 15kg
    - face pull with blue + plain band

    The dips were easy to avoid aggravating my shoulder.
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  8. #8
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Weight: 85.8kg - I am not intending to gain weight until my injury is better.

    GPP: digging trenches and laying rabbit fencing.

    Jump set:
    10x3x53kg Behind the neck push press
    10x3x20.5kg Dumbell curl - might up the reps on these

    Accessory:
    3 x 15 x Green band - Upright rows

    I am also doing the following to aid recovery from shoulder problems:
    - arm circles, forwards and back
    - tricep stretch in front and behind body
    - Side bend against wall (stretches traps)
    - Doorway pectoral stretch
    - Shoulder dislocations with broom handle
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  9. #9
    Creeping Death TexAss's Avatar
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    Digging trenches... Fun.
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  10. #10
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Fun? Hmm, I tried it again this morning and it still wasn't fun
    GPP: about 6 meters of rabbit fence

    Shoulder improving thanks to stretching regime.

    Weight: 85.6kg - looks like ad libitum eating is not going to cut it - I thought I was eating a lot but clearly not.

    Snatches:
    8 x 3 x 50kg - trying to get some depth into my squat. Maybe I should do some overhead squats...

    Jump set for 10 x 3:
    - Pendlay row 85kg
    - Ab wheel rollouts from feet with red band for support.

    Feels good man - these were all demanding exercises.

    I might max out my front squat tomorrow for a laugh
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  11. #11
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    All the best with your front squat max tomorrow. I have been working on improving mine recently, hitting it 2x a week, its slowly going up. Have you tried heavy bent rows yet instead of Pendlay? Jamie hates Pendlays and advices you to just do slightly bent rows. It's actually worked for me quite well, I can really load on the weight that way and i actually get better improvement.
    Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=139898123&page=227
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  12. #12
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    I think I read his rant but didn't really understand the reasoning for disliking pendlay rows - I might have another look.

    Weight: 85.8kg

    Front squat: testing 1RM
    bar x 10
    50kg x 5
    60kg x 5
    65kg x 3
    70kg x 1
    75kg x 1
    80kg x 1
    (added belt)
    85kg x 1
    90kg x 1
    95kg x 1
    100kg x 1
    form started to break down during the last lift so I didn't attempt 105, call me a pussy if you will

    Basically, today is a day off - C+P style.
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  13. #13
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Experimenting today:
    10x3 jumpset:
    - Partial back squats: 140kg - safety pin set to 4 holes below hooks (8 below is for full squats). This is first time I've had over 300lbs on my back...
    - DB Bench press: 32kg - awkward with my crappy olympic dumbells. Also, I can't drop them on my floor. I think I'll stick to barbell bench.

    Both too easy TBH. Will go down to pin 5 next time.

    I'm having trouble forming jumpsets because I only have one bar, a cage and limit space to shuffle things around.

    Dumbell exercises I'm not too bothered about - but I need another bar and padded flooring...
    Last edited by SuffolkPunch; 04-13-2010 at 05:23 AM.
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  14. #14
    Creeping Death TexAss's Avatar
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    Is that front squat a PR for you?


    Only having 1 bar for supersets wouldn't work too well, I imagine.
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  15. #15
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TexAss View Post
    Is that front squat a PR for you?


    Only having 1 bar for supersets wouldn't work too well, I imagine.
    Yes, I've never tried more than 80kg on a front squat before...

    Yeah - plus I want to be able to drop the bar like in power cleans and snatches. If I am worrying about splintering my floor, I won't be trying my hardest with the lifts.
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  16. #16
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    I had a day off yesterday but cleared a large area of brambles in my garden.

    85.8kg

    Jumpset for 10x3:
    - Behind the neck push press: 55kg - I can still go higher than this. The toughest part is the eccentric - lowering the bar the last 20cm or so
    - Weighted chins. 17.5kg - I attatched the weights to a band and slung it around my neck - much easier for changeovers. Previously I left the dipping belt on when doing the push presses but I think it's upsetting my balance.

    Curls with blue band 4x10: Band attatched to bottom of power rack - so pulling at an angle
    Last edited by SuffolkPunch; 04-15-2010 at 09:06 AM.
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  17. #17
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    85.6kg - When is my weight going to go up?/ I've been eating my face off... I must be burning off a boat load of energy with the working out plus the gardening work. On the plus side, my suprailiac measurement is just over 8mm - lower than it has ever been. This equates to about 12.5% body fat...

    GPP: More rabbit fencing. I like to do this in the morning during my fasting period, I think it 'trims off' some of the available glycogen in my system from the previous days eating and make me burn more fat in the fasting period.

    Deadlift day!

    Deads: 8 x 3 x 145kg - I have NEVER done this much volume before with deads, phew. This is 87% of my estimated 1RM

    Tricep pushdown: 6x3 then 4x5 with Green and Plain bands

    Inner L-fly with plain band - 2x10
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  18. #18
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    Brambles and rabbit fences, oh my!
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  19. #19
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Rabbit fencing is now done!

    Weight: 85.4kg - WTF?! Well Ok then, the fridge is full of meat - I am going to lift some heavy plates of it

    Incidently I did a metabolic typing test the other day as recommended by Jamie - I am supposedly a 'protien type' person with carbs second and fat third. This matches very well with how I have always liked to eat - I'm a meat, potatoes, vegetables type person. I see nothing wrong with eating bread and even sweet things - as I have been doing the last month (and got stronger and leaner). Meat first though...

    Weighted dips: 10 x 3 x +20kg - struggling towards the end but very good workout

    Jump set for 3 x 10:
    - band bench press - this is a cool alternative to DB bench - best done at a slow tempo
    - hanging leg raise - I couldn't keep my legs so straight in the last set; I'll get there...
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  20. #20
    Creeping Death TexAss's Avatar
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    Everyone I know that has taken that typing quiz ends up Protein Type. Me included.
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by TexAss View Post
    Everyone I know that has taken that typing quiz ends up Protein Type. Me included.
    Probably because there are lots of questions that basically say "do like meat?"...
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    dopamine72 is offline
    I'm a protein type too

    I was just on the chaos and pain forum and saw this link about oly lifters, thought you guys might be interested in taking a look at it, their training is insane and goes along with the C&P style. They train 2x a day with max weights 6x a week, then 1x a day on sunday, http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=122395951
    Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=139898123&page=227
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  23. #23
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    I wonder if they can train so frequently because the oly lifts don't max out the capacity of any specific muscle? Or maybe I'm talking poop. I wonder if there are any powerlifters that train like this...?


    More garden related GPP!


    Half an hour of lawn rolling forwards and backwards

    Weight 85.8kg. I feel fat, might lower calories for a week. Need to keep my eye on the Summer holidays..!

    Jumpset:

    10 x 3 x 110kg box squat - still feels a bit light. I have a feeling my box squat is going to rocket past my back squat.

    10 x 5 x Blue + Plain - Face pull

    Band l-flys
    Barbell l-flys (with EZ bar 10kg)
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  24. #24
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Cals / Protein
    300 66 shake
    247 46 Chicken
    250 9 Bread+mayo
    150 6.45 Yoghurt
    65 0 Apple
    80 2 Oatcakes
    900 45 Beef pot roast + mash
    70 0 strawberries
    90 1 cookie
    250 10 Cereal and milk

    Totals:
    2402 185


    Oh and I won an olympic barbell on eBay. It's a cheapie (17kg not 20kg) but will do for a backup when I do jumpsets. It was 35 GBP.
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  25. #25
    Registered User azzuk23's Avatar
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    well done mate, keep it up and you will be bending the **** out of the 17kg bar soon enough. if you're ever in leeds and want to train with a fellow hooligan just give us a pm
    i dont compete against you. i compete against myself yesterday, last week, last year


    No one system of training is better than all of the other systems. However, proper training always involves common elements. These are hard work, abbreviated training programs, progression, good form, and motivation - Brooks Kubik
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  26. #26
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    Thanks - always nice to hear from other hooligans

    Weight 85.8kg

    10 x 3 x 85kg Barbell rows - a bit easy, will go up in weight next time. I think it was probably a good idea doing this instead of pendlay rows

    Jumpset:
    10 x 3 x 57.5kg Behind the neck push press - this is going up steadily, I am pleased
    10 x 5 x Green band pullthroughs - my shoes don't have enough grip to avoid slipping on the floor under the tension of the bands. I might have to do goodmornings instead as an accessory
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  27. #27
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Cals/Protein
    320 70.4 Shake
    230 9 Bread + salad
    165 31 Chicken
    76.23 16.5 Ham
    65 0 Apple
    174 4.5 Oatcakes
    123 7.5 Cheese
    195 4.5 Cashews
    400 40 Beef bolognese
    350 14 Pasta
    300 6 Ice cream -- my diet rocks lol

    2398.23 203.4
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  28. #28
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Not going to bother logging my diet anymore, basically it's 2400 cals and 180+ grams protein.

    85.4kg

    Not very good day today. Probably done too many days on the trot now. :-/

    Power cleans 6x3x80kg -- too heavy, my form sucks, I need to work on that first, I shouldn't have sore biceps!

    Skulls 5x3 then 3x5 with 43.5kg
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  29. #29
    Creeping Death TexAss's Avatar
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    Nice work Suff. Could you do your band pullthroughs barefoot to avoid slippage?
    *No Crew*
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    Originally Posted by TexAss View Post
    Nice work Suff. Could you do your band pullthroughs barefoot to avoid slippage?
    I would probably get splinters from the floor It is a wooden floor that's had quite a battering from weight training over the years. I could probably just get a bigger band - then it would be slack near the bottom of the movement instead of having to pretension it so much. I can't remember how I used to do this with cables in a commercial gym with constant tension...

    By the way, my shoulder is feeling a lot better, I put it down to the stretching routine - the broomhandle dislocations in particular. I think I've had a shoulder impingement for years because I've experienced a bench plateau at around 80kg (training weight) as long as 2-3 years ago.

    Also, I have a lot of trouble with my arms going numb when lying on my side in bed - I'm hoping that this stops (unless I am not understanding what a shoulder impingement is).
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