For Those With "Bad Knees."

[omnisjdi]

Ok all. I've seen several members here mention that they have bad knees, so they can't work legs. I'm calling B*ll Sh*t!!!!!
I have two bad knees from Basic Trainning. That has not stopped me from working the my legs to the best of my ability. All that means is that I have to do it more intellegently than the next guy.
There are lots of exercises you can do to work the legs with out stressing the legs. It also means you'll be doing more machine works than free weights though. You want proof?????
Read the present issue of Planet Muscle. Its devoted to leg exercises.
Time to stop whinning, and start working those legs.
If I can do it so can you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Legbuh]

"work the legs without stressing the legs"?

I can work my legs. and I do. After warmup I feel no pain. The next day, I can hardley walk because of knee pain. Ignoring pain is not a good thing.

Squats and lunges are my favorite exercises. So I'm calling bullsh*t on you. I can work through the pain and up the intesity and I have now for a while (doing ultimate warrior body press now and snarling) but I know it's not helping. I will continue until I see a sports doctor who tells me otherwise.

Relying on endorphines to kill pain is not a good thing.

[MuscleMan009]

Alot of people get pain from the form they use, and are usually too lazy to worry about fixing their form or learning proper form

[GuyJin]

omnisjdi,

Hold on a sec, big guy. I have admitted in the past that I have knee and lower back problems; however, I have never used that as an excuse to wimp out on doing legs. There is a BIG difference between NOT doing legs out of sheer laziness and NOT doing them due to injury. If someone has an injury that prevents them from working legs at all, well, that's all there is to that. Calling them lazy doesn't help at bit.

Having said that, yes, I will agree that a lot of guys and gals out there invariably come up with some kind of excuse not to work their legs. In that case, yes, they deserve to be castigated, whipped, flamed, and drawn-and-quartered, not necessarily in that order.

My own personal issue, not with you, BTW, is those out there who say that you MUST squat and you MUST deadlift, and you MUST do this and that or you're not a warrior, or some such bullsh-t like that. While I personally feel that squats and deads are king for building, I realize that not everyone can do them with perfect form (as you and others mentioned) or that they simply aren't suited for them. In that case, those trainees should not feel pressured to do that which could someday cripple them, and find an equally difficult alternative exercise which will give them results.

As you said, "intelligent training."

[omnisjdi]

Should be with out stressing the knees.
Here are some alternitives.
Hack Squats, Smith Machine Squats, Leg Extensions, Lying Leg Curls.
Eliptical machines for cardio.
Thing to remember to get maximum growth and toning you need to work the legs. Most of your testosterone comes from the legs. You're only cheating yourself when you don't work the legs.

[omnisjdi]

Oh yeah. Do squats with out weight. You'll still feel the burn.

[Beachmaster]

Ok all. I've seen several members here mention that they have bad knees, so they can't work legs. I'm calling B*ll Sh*t!!!!!
I have two bad knees from Basic Trainning. That has not stopped me from working the my legs to the best of my ability. All that means is that I have to do it more intellegently than the next guy.
There are lots of exercises you can do to work the legs with out stressing the legs. It also means you'll be doing more machine works than free weights though. You want proof?????
Read the present issue of Planet Muscle. Its devoted to leg exercises.
Time to stop whinning, and start working those legs.
If I can do it so can you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you say you have "bad knees" can you please be more specific? For instance did you have surgery on your knees for meniscal tears, ACL, arthritis, patella disorder, etc, OR do you mean that you are merely having alot of pain in your knees?

[gbg]

omnisjdi,

Hold on a sec, big guy. I have admitted in the past that I have knee and lower back problems; however, I have never used that as an excuse to wimp out on doing legs. There is a BIG difference between NOT doing legs out of sheer laziness and NOT doing them due to injury. If someone has an injury that prevents them from working legs at all, well, that's all there is to that. Calling them lazy doesn't help at bit.

Having said that, yes, I will agree that a lot of guys and gals out there invariably come up with some kind of excuse not to work their legs. In that case, yes, they deserve to be castigated, whipped, flamed, and drawn-and-quartered, not necessarily in that order.

My own personal issue, not with you, BTW, is those out there who say that you MUST squat and you MUST deadlift, and you MUST do this and that or you're not a warrior, or some such bullsh-t like that. While I personally feel that squats and deads are king for building, I realize that not everyone can do them with perfect form (as you and others mentioned) or that they simply aren't suited for them. In that case, those trainees should not feel pressured to do that which could someday cripple them, and find an equally difficult alternative exercise which will give them results.

As you said, "intelligent training."

X2!!!

[Beachmaster]

omnisjdi,

Hold on a sec, big guy. I have admitted in the past that I have knee and lower back problems; however, I have never used that as an excuse to wimp out on doing legs. There is a BIG difference between NOT doing legs out of sheer laziness and NOT doing them due to injury. If someone has an injury that prevents them from working legs at all, well, that's all there is to that. Calling them lazy doesn't help at bit.

Having said that, yes, I will agree that a lot of guys and gals out there invariably come up with some kind of excuse not to work their legs. In that case, yes, they deserve to be castigated, whipped, flamed, and drawn-and-quartered, not necessarily in that order.

My own personal issue, not with you, BTW, is those out there who say that you MUST squat and you MUST deadlift, and you MUST do this and that or you're not a warrior, or some such bullsh-t like that. While I personally feel that squats and deads are king for building, I realize that not everyone can do them with perfect form (as you and others mentioned) or that they simply aren't suited for them. In that case, those trainees should not feel pressured to do that which could someday cripple them, and find an equally difficult alternative exercise which will give them results.

As you said, "intelligent training."

Your point is excellent. There are trainees who experienced significant knee injuries and pain syndromes, at times resulting in surgery as well as joint replacements. Prior to continuing to exercising their legs as rigorously as the "Roman Gladiator" recommends they first need to EXERCISE good judgement so as not to exacerbate their knee injuries that may result in permanent disability and further exercise limitations as well as negatively impacting the quality of their lives.

We are on the over 35 website, not the juvenile forum, and need to train smartly, realistically and safely with the notion of being able to train for the rest of our lives. Calls for us to go gung ho regardless of our injuries and pain is outright dangerous and does not provide useful feedback to posters who are dealing with these injuries.

[gogz]

my mom has bad knees from driving a truck all day

[JonnyStead]

I'm not really sure what prompted this thread - but I'll throw in my views for haha's - take em or leave em!

If you're going to work out with weights, whether that be machines or free weights, it's vital to try to do some leg work. Leg work stresses the cardio system more than upper body work and well, frankly if you dont you'll end up looking like Johnny Bravo (Oh, mamma) -

Having said that, finding the RIGHT leg exercises for you, particularly as you age is very important. Joints wear out - it really is that simple - the protective tissue inside the joints wears over time (quicker if you abuse your joints and have a lousy diet) resulting in bone on bone action (not as much fun as it sounds, ladies) which is crippling.

So, from my point of view, whilst I can still do Squats and Deads I recommend them to anyone who can do them with proper form. For those who struggle with those particular exercises, consider ISO work like extentions etc.

Suggesting those who do have pain in the knees or indeed have damaged knees are lazy though, isnt going to get my respect - we have to accept that everyone needs a tailoured regime.

[ntrllftr]

Should be with out stressing the knees.
Here are some alternitives.
Hack Squats, Smith Machine Squats, Leg Extensions, Lying Leg Curls.
Eliptical machines for cardio.
Thing to remember to get maximum growth and toning you need to work the legs. Most of your testosterone comes from the legs. You're only cheating yourself when you don't work the legs.

I must admit. I am totally confused with this post.
What are they an alternate of?

Hack squats and lunges hurt my knees more than any other exercises.
Leg presses for some reason have been the most unforgiving
exercise for my legs pain wise. Have no idea why but I have used them as my mainstay and core movement for years. Just recently (last 8 months) I have been able to get back to squating decent weight without pain from powering through leg extensions and leg presses over the past few years.

Oh yeah. Do squats with out weight. You'll still feel the burn.

I would prefer to use a stepper. You can add some resistance.
Any little bit of extra resistance is better than "just" body weight.
The Elliptical or stepper is easier on my knees, But again that's just me.

.

[ultim8-one]

Should be with out stressing the knees.
Here are some alternitives.
Hack Squats, Smith Machine Squats, Leg Extensions, Lying Leg Curls.
Eliptical machines for cardio.
Thing to remember to get maximum growth and toning you need to work the legs. Most of your testosterone comes from the legs. You're only cheating yourself when you don't work the legs.

Do you actually think that Hack Squats and Leg Extensions are "less" stressfull on the knees ?? Less stressfull than what .... a baseball bat ? However I do agree with the eliptical machine ... I use that almost exclusively for that exact reason.

[hardwarz]

I never had bad knees during boot or in the Fleet. Paris Island wasn't easy, but it wasn't that hard either.

I've had a knee problem for years. Years ago, I was jumping up and down on a socket wrench trying to undo a lug nut. I slipped off and came down on the wrench and hit the wrench, right under my left knee.

Most days, I'm fine. Some days, it swells up and I have a bad limp. Working out with it sometimes aggrivates it a lot, some days are better. On the days that it hurts bad and I limp, I put extra pressure on my good (right) knee. After a couple days of that, both knees are hurting.

Now, don't tell me what I can or can't do. I'm listening to my body and it says it can only do so much.

Don't get me wrong, I don't ignore my legs, I just can't push as hard as I want to build the size I want.

Hardwarz

[SAFD99]

"knee pain" is a little too generalized. That could range from inflammation/tendonitis/arthitis to actual structural damage. I have bilateral knee pain and there are certain things that I can't do, such as going heavy with squats. I'm no expert, but I would think that the older you get, the degeneration of meniscus would put you at an added risk of injury doing heavy squats. Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, just my opinion.

[C5VetteLS1]

Your point is excellent. There are trainees who experienced significant knee injuries and pain syndromes. at times resulting in surgery as well as joint replacements. Prior to continuing to exercising their legs as rigorously as the "Roman Gladiator" recommends they first need to EXERCISE good judgement so as not to exacerbate their knee injuries that may result in permanent disability and further exercise limitations as well as negatively impacting their quality of their lives.

We are on the over 35 website, not the juvenile forum, and need to train smartly, realistically and safely with the notion of being able to train for the rest of our lives. Calls for us to go gung ho regardless of our injuries and pain is outright dangerous and does not provide useful feedback to posters who are dealing with these injuries.

Perfectly stated!

[B Campbell]

I've had a few problems with one of my knees since the late 80's when I got tackled in a pick up game of football by a 400 lbs guy that grabbed my ankle and rolled as he fell. It's nothing serious, just tweaks on occasion. I've found MY answer though. Tommy Kono (TK) neoprene knee sleeves warm my joints and provide minor support as well. I think they are perfect for preventing problems from getting worse, or for preventing problems in the first place. I've attached a pic of the TK's at work.

As for leg extensions...that is one of the number one misconceptions for "bad knees". They exert much more sheer force on the knee joint than squats, etc. I avoid them myself, but they do work the quads well...but at what price?

[jawter]

As for leg extensions...that is one of the number one misconceptions for "bad knees". They exert much more sheer force on the knee joint than squats, etc. I avoid them myself, but they do work the quads well...but at what price?

I tried leg extensions in the past but after a couple workouts my knee's would be hurting to point of my not being able to walk.

Due to the uneven wear and multiple bone spurs in both of my knees I have to lift in a manner that tends to put me off-balance in order to put the knees into the best possible position to lift. For legs I will do deadlifts but at heavier weights my form suffers because I can not start with that much bend in the knee, so for heavier lifts I have to use the leg press and still I have to be careful.

As things keep going I will need to have the right knee replaced in a few years and the left most likely not to long after that. Squating and doing leg routines just for the sake of being macho isn't in the best interest of my health or pocket book since my company does not provide any disability coverage, they pay 100% on the medical premiums and 80% of medical costs but if I'm not at work I don't get a paycheck, so the short of it is I have to lift smart or risk serious injury and loss of pay not to mention the couple $$$ in medical bills.

[terribletriad]

Knee injuries can be very complex and difficult at times. The biggest thing I've found in the rehibilitation of a knee injury is to try the many different excersise there are and see how you respond. Everyone responds differently to different excersises. You might also find out that post-op, you respond better to something you didn't respond to originally.

I've been thru it more than once....hence the name 'terrible-triad'.

[B Campbell]

True, we're all different. Good point!

[debandmikeb]

I had a total knee replacement done about a year and a half ago. I was counting on needing the other one done before too long. I did no other exercise other than the physical therapy on my knee. By the way, the surgery was a huge success, giving me just under 140 degrees of flex...well above the average for this operation.

Anyway, I just started body building (not bodybuilding) this past January and work my legs on a regular basis. Basically, relative to knee pain, some machines hurt, some do not. My gym has at least five different elliptical machines... they all hurt my knees except one. There has to be five leg press machines..I can use only two. The same with extension and curl machines. The point is you should be able to find something, weather it's a machine or an exercise that can accomplish what you need to do.

To do an exercise that hurts is crazy. You don't know what kind of damage you may be doing to yourself, be it knees, shoulders or whatever.

I guess you could say "train hard but train smart" and since we're all over 35, we're all smart, right?

Mike

[B Campbell]

Many of the machines are designed very differently, so there will be some that hurt and some that don't due to the mechanics of the design.
Years ago I was one of those "No Pain No Gain" guys...I even had a necklace with that on it!! LOL Well I finally figured out the hard way that when you get older you must change to "No Pain No Pain"....much better!!! I also believe wholeheartedly in another cliche'...Lift smarter not harder...with age comes wisdom.

[BePrecise]

As things keep going I will need to have the right knee replaced in a few years and the left most likely not to long after that. Squating and doing leg routines just for the sake of being macho isn't in the best interest of my health or pocket book since my company does not provide any disability coverage, they pay 100% on the medical premiums and 80% of medical costs but if I'm not at work I don't get a paycheck, so the short of it is I have to lift smart or risk serious injury and loss of pay not to mention the couple $$$ in medical bills.

Haha...that's bringing it home right there (and the person saying this is the 35 and over group). I hit legs just like every other body part and my knees act up sometimes. My legs are skinny and look like pipe-cleaners but are quite strong (compared to most gym rats) so sometimes the temptation is to go heavy all the time just to say, "see, I do train them...and hard to!" But that's just my ego/pride as if I tweak my back or injure myself, nobody is going to care about my squat and deadlift numbers...and their totals won't pay the bills.
I'm getting over a broken hand from being brave and playing hardball over softball this year. Needless-to-say, its been a horrible summer activity wise, doctor visits every few weeks, and nobody congratulated me on being an athlete or in-shape...just the classic line, "see, you're getting too old to be doing that stuff."

[kimsquit]

Ok all. I've seen several members here mention that they have bad knees, so they can't work legs. I'm calling B*ll Sh*t!!!!!
I have two bad knees from Basic Trainning.

this is from your bodyspace:

Have you ever had a lifting injury?
Yes
What type of injury was it? How long were you injured? How did you recover?
Tendinitis in both knees and heels while in Army Basic Training.
Was on crutches for three weeks.
Knees never completely recovered


Now I realize that your newly discovered enthusiam for exercise has you all full of piss and vinegar, but I call "B*ll Sh*t" on anyone who thinks a bit of knee tendonitis is no different than a patella rupture, knee fracture, or even osteoarthritis.

So instead of ordering people to "stop whining" about their knee injuries, how about you stop assuming that your injuries are identical to everyone elses's before you encourage someone to do even more damage to themselves?

Now having said that, I was diagnosed with degenerative rhumatoid arthritis in both knees at age 21. I used it as an excuse to loaf on the sofa all through my thirties but shook myself out of it at age 40. This winter I was pressing well over 1100 pounds on the linear leg press, so despite Omnisdji's gung-ho-itis, he does have a point: sometimes it's not the old injuries that limits us, it's the attitude behind them

I used to say "work smarter, not harder" but that's inaccurate...it should be work hard smartly.

[B Campbell]

"I used to say "work smarter, not harder" but that's inaccurate...it should be work hard smartly."

Now THAT is right on the money! Thanks for giving me that new focus!

[Kaiulani]

"I used to say "work smarter, not harder" but that's inaccurate...it should be work hard smartly."

Now THAT is right on the money! Thanks for giving me that new focus!

I have to agree with that.

Might I recommend an really simple exercise that works for my knees? I swear when my knees start getting 'whiny', I start doing wall chair exercises to get those ligaments , that are hard to find work-outs for, in shape again.

Wall chair is simple. Merely pretend that the wall is the back of a chair, making sure the upper thighs are parallel to the deck, and cross you arms and take deep breaths.

The first few times you do it , it will be hard. After time you will find you are able to take more breaths. (As opposed to using a timer). Repeat this a few times a day, no sweat. You will find your knees are not hurting anymore. Note, that for those who have had surgery, I cannot speak on that.

[BazzaW]

sometimes it's tempting to makes statements in absolutes...whilst it may be true that many people use a joint injury or some other reason as an excuse , in my opinion, this isn't only restricted to leg/knee issues. Like many others here being active and sporting all of my life has left its toll on shoulders and knees...35 years of playing volleyball competitively will do that to you...knee operations, meniscus issues etc...sure there is discomfort...however leg days are my most satisfying. A lot of people don't like to train legs... we're human...we shy away from discomfort and seek out the things in life that make us feel good.

Castingating people for their natural desire not to push themselves in exercises that cause themselves discomfort is the human condition. Better to lead through your example of a balanced training program that includes any leg exercises you can...'A man convinced against his will...is unconvinced still.'

[KyleAaron]

Ok all. I've seen several members here mention that they have bad knees, so they can't work legs. I'm calling B*ll Sh*t!!!!!
I have two bad knees from Basic Trainning.

Please describe in medical terms what your and everyone else's "bad knees" mean, exactly. I have looked in my textbooks and journals and have been unable to find this mysterious condition. What is it, exactly?

This makes a significant difference to whether you get to call bullsht, or we get to say "bullsht!!" to you.

[tonester]

You want proof?????
Read the present issue of Planet Muscle. Its devoted to leg exercises.
Time to stop whinning, and start working those legs.
If I can do it so can you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow. Maybe you can get them to pitch in when it's time to buy a scooter.


I wish I had written this:

Castingating people for their natural desire not to push themselves in exercises that cause themselves discomfort is the human condition. Better to lead through your example of a balanced training program that includes any leg exercises you can...'A man convinced against his will...is unconvinced still.'

I'd be more impressed if the OP had posted some prehab or lower body strengthening ideas that have helped him overcome his knee problems, rather than another "work through the pain" post.

[rebelynn]

Please describe in medical terms what your and everyone else's "bad knees" mean, exactly. I have looked in my textbooks and journals and have been unable to find this mysterious condition. What is it, exactly?

This makes a significant difference to whether you get to call bullsht, or we get to say "bullsht!!" to you.

I have a "bad knee" which is just to say that the cushioning inside is no longer in place caused from osteoarthritis of the knee and its bone against bone when I walk etc... so I was sent to a Ortho doc who put me thru a fairly intense 12 week-3 times a week therapy session and shot some synvisc into the knee, now I am having no issues with anything, it had got to the point where I couldn't walk up one step without pain akin to almost blacking out so I am amazed that I can jump, run whatever with no issues.