Why is it so taboo to give clients specific diet advice?

[ThaiFighter_83]

Why can't I give my clients specific meals plans and caloric breakdowns? I always hear that whenever a client asks you for diet advice, you have to preface by saying, "I'm not a certified nutritionist or dietician, so I can't tell you exactly what to eat." All I think I'm supposed to say is "Eat every 2-3 hours and try to eat more fruits and vegetables."

I know that's not going to teach my clients ****. I want to give them my own meal plans (which I've balanced myself through info I've learned from studying for my cert and researching myself. I'm not a dietician or a nutritionist, but I know that you have to have 50% of total calories from carbs, 30% from fat, and 20% from protien. And I have everything I eat everyday written on an excell document, perfectly balanced with all the caloric breakdowns, all with healthy foods. Why can't I show that to my clients?

[wobemaster]

I know that you have to have 50% of total calories from carbs, 30% from fat, and 20% from protien

Maybe thats why? I'm not a dietician but only 20% from protein is terrible. Almost everything I've ever read about diet/nutrition says to get at least 1g protein/lbs. For me personally that would put me below 1g/lbs and possibly making no gains/losing muscle if on a cut. Feel free to correct me if im wrong

[Mighty_Metcalf]

Maybe thats why? I'm not a dietician but only 20% from protein is terrible. Almost everything I've ever read about diet/nutrition says to get at least 1g protein/lbs. For me personally that would put me below 1g/lbs and possibly making no gains/losing muscle if on a cut. Feel free to correct me if im wrong

completely agree!

[Mighty_Metcalf]

Okay so I'm going to go ahead and just paste it here for all to read, not very long but to the point.





Jadah Metcalf

Protein above the RDA is safe, especially for strength/power athletes

It has been well established that serious athletes need more protein than sedentary people. However there have been numerous questions presented about how much protein is enough and how much is too little for repairing and rebuilding damaged muscle tissue fibers during intense training. There have also been numerous myths about proteins effects on the body in excess amounts. Recent documents in the Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, and the Journal of Applied Physiology have answered these questions and debunked the myths.

The RDA or recommended dietary allowance of protein is only a mere .8 g/kg/day. This recommendation is well suited to roughly 97.5% of all men and women age nineteen and older. However, exercising individuals, especially strength and power athletes, require much more protein due to the breaking down and rebuilding of muscle tissue from exercise. The protein range for these individuals should be in the range of 1.4-2.0 g/kg/day, which is not only safe but may actually improve adaptations to exercise during training (1,2,3,4,and 5). There has also been an abundance of research indicating that any individual that engages in physical activity/exercise require a higher protein intake than the .8g/kg/day recommended by the RDA no matter what state of conditioning they are in i.e. recreational, moderately, or well trained. Intakes above these levels are deemed as necessary because exercise performance may be bolstered (1,2,3,4,and 5). There is also evidence to support that exercising bodies could actually begin to cannibalize themselves when protein intake isn't high enough, thereby putting the body into a catabolic state (1). Essentially, it's better for exercising individuals to have too much protein rather than to little.

Myths about protein consumption in excess have been ill contrived at best. Ranging from kidney damage to osteoporosis, these myths have surfaced scaring many would be anabolic bodies away. Erroneous reports by the media would like people to believe protein consumption above the RDA would be detrimental to the kidneys, would cause renal diseases, and predispose some individuals to osteoporosis. However, the discovery of kidney problems came from animal studies and humans with co-existing renal disease. The detection of osteoporosis susceptibility came from botched tests as well. An example of this would be the fact that these findings came only from small sample sizes, methodological errors, and the use of high dosed purified forms of protein(1). Contrary to media scare, preliminary and epidemiological studies have suggested a benefit to a higher protein intake for those with major risk factors such as chronic kidney disease, hypertension, diabetes, and obesity(1).

In conclusion, protein consumption above the recommended dietary allowance is not only acceptable but is encouraged for all people engaging in aerobic and anaerobic exercise. The myths associated with taking in to much protein have been exaggerated creating an unnecessary scare. What was once thought to be the cause of various medical maladies turns out to actually help in recovery from them.

Works Cited

Cambell, Bill, et al. ?International Society of Sports Nutrition Position stand: Protein and Exercise.? Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition. 4(2007):23-43. 17Feb2008<http://jssn.com>.

Hoffman, Jay R, et al. ?Effect of Protein Intake on Strength, Body Composition and Endocrine Changes in Strength/Power Athletes.? Journal of International Society of Sports Nutrition. 3(2006):17-24. 17Feb2008<http://www.jissn.com>.

Lemon, P.W., M.A. Tarnopolsky, J.D. MacDougall, and S.A. Atkinson. ?Protein requirements and muscle mass/strength changes during intensive training in novice bodybuilders.? Journal of Applied Physiology.73.2(1992):767-775. 17Feb2008<http://www.japphysiology.org>.

Norton, Layne ?Bodybuilding?s Biggest Protein Myths Debunked.? Muscular Development Online Magazine. 17Feb2008<http://www.musculardevelopment.com>.

Tarnopolsky, M.A. et al. ?Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass.? Journal of Applied Physiology. 64(1988):187-193. 17Feb2008<http://www.japphysiology.org>.

Pulled from another post

[Simmo0508]

Why can't I give my clients specific meals plans and caloric breakdowns?

Because you're a PT, not a registered dietician/nutritionist. In most fitness certs whilst studying up to become a trainer, you don't learn anywhere near enough to be able to hand out specific nutritional advice to people.

You and me may know a thing or two for example, but legally we're not able to give that advice, for we haven't got the qualifications behind it to cover ourselves if something ever went wrong with said client's health.

Knowing something or having an opinion on a diet for instance, or reading up some internet websites and building your own knowledge, isn't a qualification. It isn't on paper.

If you have studied and completed the neccessary nutrition courses that registered dieticians and the like carry, and have all that aswell as being a certified PT, then great. Two birds with one stone. You have the right to then dish out such information.

I know that's not going to teach my clients ****.

That's not your job to teach every specific thing regarding food. Basics, yes, specifics, no. Unless like i said above, you obtain the neccessary qualifications to do so.

The best thing to do is just refer them onto somebody, with all the allied health professionals and network building a trainer should have behind them.

Therefore it becomes their job to teach said client.

I want to give them my own meal plans (which I've balanced myself through info I've learned from studying for my cert and researching myself.

You can't devise an eating program for somebody based on something you personally like or have read about say on the internet.

Meal plans must be specific to the individual and their current condition, taking into consideration pre-existing conditions aswell, not to mention goal/s. Medical testing must be done on the client, analysis' performed, everything.

There's more to it than say just calories.

I'm not a dietician or a nutritionist, but I know that you have to have 50% of total calories from carbs, 30% from fat, and 20% from protien.

And that's why it's good you're not working in that field at the moment.

There's no set rule as to protein/fat/carb ratios. Everyone is different and requires different things.

And truth be told, not everyone does eat 50/30/20. They still live healthy lives, and still see results be it on the scale and in the mirror.

If you were to break down everybody's diet, it wouldn't be that precise. Point being, you don't have to follow a certain rule.

And I have everything I eat everyday written on an excell document, perfectly balanced with all the caloric breakdowns, all with healthy foods. Why can't I show that to my clients?

Because what you eat has nothing to do with your client. They aren't you. That's your diet.

As for how to set up and write things down, sure, probably not a bad idea, but i've found a lot of clients will straight up copy cat what you do and the foods you eat and portions you eat. That's not what you want as a trainer. That plan isn't for them, like i explained above.

You want them to pretty much get the basics into their head regarding say meal frequency and increasing their metabolism etc. portion control, balanced meals and whatnot. Getting them into that lifestyle of eating regularly and healthily, not just sparingly and with fast food.

You take it baby steps with these people. The dieticians are trained to take care of everything else and explain the nitty gritty to them, which is also specific to them given the info they gather. We as trainers don't usually have that.

[dschwartz]

I couldn't agree with Simmo0508 more. Since, as a personal trainer you are not officially qualified to give dietary advice you could potentially find yourself in a legal situation. And for protein intake the recommendations vary so much across the board for people that it is difficult to generalize.

[mydamnself]

Because you don't want to get sued and driven out of personal training. That's the answer, like it or not. A great example of this is that I'm known for driving my clients (intelligently and safely) into a pool of their own sweat. Someone I respect greatly once told me "It's good to work your clients hard, but don't push them as hard as you know they can go. I'd rather have them performing just below maximum and stay in one piece, than possibly get injured and not be able to pay me anymore." At first you might look at that and think it's a bad attitude, but it's the attitude that has kept him a top tier trainer for twenty years with a waiting list a mile long, and clients who make consistently great progress.

[Diesel 7]

simmo0508, you sir are repped!

[Squat.Hildebro]

Another great post by Simmo0508. Try to make buddies with some R.D.s, so you can refer clients to each other. It's also a lot better if you can refer to a specific R.D. rather than just saying, "I don't know. Find an R.D." Even better if you start up your own studio with an R.D. in-house. Even best if you're an R.D.

[EMISGOD]

I'm not a dietician or a nutritionist, but I know that you have to have 50% of total calories from carbs, 30% from fat, and 20% from protien.

This ^^ amply demonstrates this \/ \/

Because you're a PT, not a registered dietitian/nutritionist.

and this. \/ \/

...you are not officially qualified to give dietary advice

Incidentally, it is dietitian, not dietician. Those who have spent awesome amounts of time and study getting that degree tend to be very particular about the spelling of that title...just a heads up...I found this out a few times the hard way.

[nickmanzoni]

That and nutritionalist.... that pisses me off something fierce.

[Al Shades]

Why can't I give my clients specific meals plans and caloric breakdowns? I always hear that whenever a client asks you for diet advice, you have to preface by saying, "I'm not a certified nutritionist or dietician, so I can't tell you exactly what to eat." All I think I'm supposed to say is "Eat every 2-3 hours and try to eat more fruits and vegetables."

I know that's not going to teach my clients ****. I want to give them my own meal plans (which I've balanced myself through info I've learned from studying for my cert and researching myself. I'm not a dietician or a nutritionist, but I know that you have to have 50% of total calories from carbs, 30% from fat, and 20% from protien. And I have everything I eat everyday written on an excell document, perfectly balanced with all the caloric breakdowns, all with healthy foods. Why can't I show that to my clients?

Your best bet is to just cough up a few hundred and get a nutritional cert. That's what I did. It helps to have that line on your profile.

[Simmo0508]

What's this "repped" thing everyone talks about on here?! lol


/noob

[Fitbrit]

What's this "repped" thing everyone talks about on here?! lol


/noob

You see those little green squares under your picture? When someone is impressed with your post they can click on the little white icon next to your "online" dot to add to your rep power. It's your reputation on bb.com.

Or if they think that you're a frickin jerk, they can say so. Perpetual "jerks" have red squares. I say this because people that have red squares seem to like to cause problems in the forums. I am in no way pointing out anyone in particular! Please don't take this in the wrong way.

[Simmo0508]

Alright thanks.

[SledgeBoy]

lol 20% protein

[Keltron]

lol 20% protein

Geez, lighten up on the guy people. lol.

[XX1]

Im gonna go against the popular opinion here and am prepared for the flames, but just because you arent a RD doesnt mean you cant give your clients advice.....

MOST, not all RD's have their head square up their ass in terms of dietary guidelines when it comes to working SPECIFICALLY with bodybuilders or people wishing to drastically change their appearance. more often that not the textbook stuff they learn does not work in the real world. For general health for non weight training individuals, sure go see one, but you couldnt pay me to step foot in one of their offices unless they had a long list of athletes they had succesfully worked with

if you have any suspicion the person would take any legal action against you for any reason, id cease to train them altogether. I dont train people I dont trust. fortunately i have the luzury of turning people away if i so choose

[XX1]

another point to consider, just because someone has a paper certification or qualification DOES NOT MEAN they know what they are doing. just like trainers who have certs.

you can take a relatively smart person who has never stepped foot in a gym study for a few months and pass a cert test. does that make them a good trainer? hell no it doesn't. same thing applies for RD's

wanna go to a doctor for nutritional advice? i wouldnt, I train 3 MD's currently, all went to different med schools and NONE of them had ANY nutritional training by their own addmittance. NONE!

just do your homework on people that you are considering using. ask to see references and talk to clients of theirs.

[Simmo0508]

Im gonna go against the popular opinion here and am prepared for the flames, but just because you arent a RD doesnt mean you cant give your clients advice.....

MOST, not all RD's have their head square up their ass in terms of dietary guidelines when it comes to working SPECIFICALLY with bodybuilders or people wishing to drastically change their appearance. more often that not the textbook stuff they learn does not work in the real world. For general health for non weight training individuals, sure go see one, but you couldnt pay me to step foot in one of their offices unless they had a long list of athletes they had succesfully worked with

if you have any suspicion the person would take any legal action against you for any reason, id cease to train them altogether. I dont train people I dont trust. fortunately i have the luzury of turning people away if i so choose

Yeah i don't think anyone's thinking in reference to bodybuilders. Again like what we pointed out in that other thread, bodybuilders aren't common in most PTs' client bases. When it comes to this sort of topic, people are referring to average everyday people with specific health conditions that need consideration both in terms of training and their individual diet.

Sure this is a bodybuilding forum itself, but this sub-section is about PTing. Most PTers don't really come across all that many full-on bodybuilders during their days. That's where most people's viewpoints start.

Since a PT hasn't legally got the right to advise these people on things that other "professions" (" & " marks used because i agree with you that a lot of RDs dunno **** in reality when it comes to their job) have indeed got the go ahead with, then a straight up PT can't (or shouldn't, that is) dish out that info for like we've said above, they can possibly face legal consequences. You have nothing to fall back on. The reason of "i know more than they do!!11" doesn't hold much credibility or weight.

People are moreso talking about the liability, not the fact that you and me may know more than an RD etc. There's a time and a place for things in life, and a time to know when to tuck your tail between your legs without it gettin cut off.

It's not anyone's position, unless they hold the necessary qualifications.

As for trusting people and "pick them out beforehand", you can't trust anyone in life. Nobody. The most normal and nicest client to your face, could still end up sueing you in the end. It just simply doesn't work like that unfortunately. That's not how the world works. People do backstab and lie. It's better to be safe than sorry in a situation like this.

[FreddyKrueger]

First of all we should take it easy on the guy who started the post. Obviously if you are training a client they will come to you for advice on nutrition. Every certification has nutrition section that you study for. Its not in great detail but its there. This leads me to believe that every trainer should have a decent understanding of what they can recomend a client. However, this doesn't mean that we are dietitians (SP). It simply boils down to knowing when clients need to be in a deficit, surplus and when to maintain calories consumed.
90% of clients are normal people who havent lifted much or have lifted some before. Body builders are usually very knowledgeable. The book stuff you guys mentioned is stuff backed by science and thats what separates a professional from a gym rat. It might not work all the time and it might not be for everyone but it has been proven to work most of the time.

Either way, general knowledge of nutrition is a must for a trainer.

[kserajuddin]

Since a PT hasn't legally got the right to advise these people on things that other "professions" (" & " marks used because i agree with you that a lot of RDs dunno **** in reality when it comes to their job) have indeed got the go ahead with, then a straight up PT can't (or shouldn't, that is) dish out that info for like we've said above, they can possibly face legal consequences. You have nothing to fall back on. The reason of "i know more than they do!!11" doesn't hold much credibility or weight.

Yeah, RD's are partially to blame for a lot of the misconceptions on eating out there - the "low-fat" trend that ended up just upping everyone's carbs, and the "cardio-protective" diet that does the same thing and makes the patients need for medication worse - I've seen meal plans and food lists from dietitians for some of my clients that just made no sense to me or the client - once I broke down the reasoning to them and helped them understand it better, that's when they started to follow them and finally get results -

That leads to my second point -

When you get to a certain experience level as a trainer, you occupy a special place in your clients lives - many of my clients are affluent and have the ability to see someone else for their nutritional needs, but they're not willing too because of their comfort level with me - they'd rather get all of their info from one place -

And when you hear some of the glaring problems in their diets, you can't just sit back and wait for them to get around to fixing them - it was hard enough for them to get started with you - so what I do and I'm sure the majority of trainers do is we trouble shoot these glaring weaknesses, and make suggestions on how to fix them - but in most cases I put a gentle disclaimer in the email or whatever that I'm not a nutritionist or dietitian and that they haven't paid for this advice - also in many cases I recommend they review these suggestions with their doctor, especially in cases where I've recommended a particular supplement -

I've researched the legality of this online a few times and got some many convoluted answers I just gave up - but talking to a lot of experienced trainers, and this is how they do it too -

Again, as trainers, our role isn't always so cut and dry - it's a real weird profession where you play this major role (they see you more than every other health professional in their life combined) where they rely on you for so much support, but most trainers have just a simple certification - that's why it comes down to an ethical responsibility for the trainer to know their **** and live it - it becomes a role of trust and mentorship - the trainers that don't get this part don't last long -

But what happens is you fill a lot of roles for your clients extending into nutrition and even life management issues - none of which you may be "specifically' qualified for - you've got to do your best and take a slight glance every now and then on your own backside -