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  1. #1
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    Alwyn Cosgrove's Warp Speed Fat Loss plagiarizes Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0

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  2. #2
    Registered User Mr_Ethics's Avatar
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    Holy smokes!

    What is this industry coming to?

    They borrowed stuff and didn't even credit Lyle.

    I hope he takes full legal action.

    I'm getting pissed off just thinking about the level of douchebaggery involved!
    Last edited by Mr_Ethics; 07-10-2008 at 08:39 PM.
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  3. #3
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    stole is a better word
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    Cool

    WOW that's really interesting!!!
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  5. #5
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    This is really unfortunate, I've always held Alwyn in high regard.

    Hopefully we'll get some answers about this.
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    Lets keep this in perspective. The successful ones blow sunshine up each others asses and steal back and forth from each other (crisscross promotions). They all also get their info from research and scientific studies that are not their own. This was kind of bound to happen. I mean, how many ways can there be to interpret the same fat loss research/studies? It's not like they are dealing with original design such as music or prose.

    Of course copy and paste tactics goes against my grain too but...(shrugs) may be a sign of the times(technology).
    Last edited by tonester; 07-11-2008 at 03:45 AM.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Lift4Strength's Avatar
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    There is no excuse for that.

    It's plain old theft.
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    Registered User refined's Avatar
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    That's pretty messed up and beyond obvious. All of my respect for Cosgrove is gone.

    I'm glad I never wasted money on this book. I could just reread my copy of Lyle's UD2.
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  9. #9
    Silverbar IronAbrams's Avatar
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    I thought that he was going to post a response to the plagiarism allegations on his blog today, but instead it's an advertisement for Warp Speed Fat Loss .

    http://alwyncosgrove.blogspot.com/20...-fat-loss.html

    Just posted a thread about this on T-Nation in the Bodybuilding section, it'll probably be censored though.
    Last edited by 101CavGrunt; 07-11-2008 at 09:36 AM.
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    Damn...I used to hold Cosgrove in very high regard as well. What the heck is going on?
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    oh hi powerman!
    Realize that anyone with an affiliation to a supplement company in their signature has ulterior motives when making recommendations. They're primarily concerned with pushing their products. Not your safety or what's best for you.
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  12. #12
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    Here's a post by TC on T-Nation:

    Guys,

    Never practice contempt prior to investigation.

    Here are the emails between Alwyn and Lyle concerning this allegation:



    Lyle,
    I want to address your public accusation of plagiarism and set the record straight.

    You may not recall but the chapter in question originally began life as a client handout - and then appeared in my what was tentatively titled Afterburn II and subsequently became two products - Afterburn II (workouts) and the "Real World Fat Loss" Manual.

    This was after prior agreement with you via email (see attached emails below).

    The chapter is found in the Real World Fat Loss (RWFL) Manual on pages 16-20. The chapter actually ends at the bottom of page 19. On page 20 of the manual the following text appears:

    Quote:
    (This chapter has been highly influenced by the work of Lyle McDonald and is essentially a very brief summary of his Fat Metabolism chapter in "The Ultimate Diet 2.0. I'd like to thank Lyle for his help both personally and professionally and his contributions to this field. I strongly urge you to check out Lyle's website �?? www.bodyrecomposition.net).
    When we reprinted this chapter from the RWFL manual into the Warp Speed Fat Loss product, the above paragraph was inadvertently omitted.

    This oversight was rectified immediately when this was brought to my attention.

    I want to reiterate that this was always listed as a summary of your chapter - never passed off as my work.

    The fact that the acknowledging paragraph was not included in WSFL was a huge oversight on my part, and I would have corrected it and rectified it with anyone who had purchased it immediately had you or anyone else simply brought this to my attention. I am deeply sorry about that omission.

    It was not my intention to not give proper credit, but it was my responsibility and I failed in that, and I want to make it publicly known that I fault no one but myself for that error.

    I would be happy to speak with you about this further if you want to give me a call.

    --
    Alwyn Cosgrove

    Above referenced email exchange:

    From Alwyn Cosgrove
    To Lyle McDonald
    Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:45 PM


    I'm also working on Afterburn II.

    I am going to put in a chapter on fat metabolism.
    To be honest it will be a short summary - nothing in depth.

    However your chapter in UD2.0 has influenced me the most, to the point where I'd feel uncomfortable not saying that directly in the text.
    basically the chapter will be primarily a summary of your chapter plus a few others (your chapter is 2200 words, the summary is about 600- 750).

    In other words I want to credit you directly in that chapter.

    So how do you prefer it was referenced - direct to you and your site, or direct to the book?


    AC


    Reply:


    From Lyle McDonald
    To Alwyn Cosgrove
    Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:53 PM


    Yes (all three)
    --
    Lyle



    My Reply:

    From Alwyn Cosgrove
    To Lyle McDonald
    Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:58 PM
    mailed-by gmail.com

    On 8/14/06, Lyle McDonald wrote:

    >>So how do you prefer it was referenced - direct to you and your
    >>site, or direct to the book?

    >Yes (all three)


    Gotcha.

    AC
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  13. #13
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    pffft, most college papers turned in are cut and paste from internet research and then every other sentence reworded
    oh and gecko that link did not contain answers only the search page - swiftness_02

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  14. #14
    Registered User the iron addict's Avatar
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    There was recently an article published in T-mag that had a boatload of stuff I wrote in it word for word. I see it happen all the time--SUCKS.

    Iron Addict
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  15. #15
    Registered User yksin's Avatar
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    The difference between "summary" & plagiarism

    I'm wondering if Lyle ever saw a copy of Alwyn's previous book the Rapid Fat Loss Manual (RFLM) that his edited-to-shorten version of Lyle's UD2.0 chapter was in. Because I think characterizing the RFLM chapter as a "summary" was a false characterization. From Alwyn's original email to Lyle about the chapter:

    basically the chapter will be primarily a summary of your chapter plus a few others (your chapter is 2200 words, the summary is about 600- 750).
    There's nothing in that email to indicate that it wasn't really a summary (which is typically in the summary writer's own words) rather than just an edited down version of the original author's work. In fact, Alwyn wasn't even really asking for permission for anything: he was saying "I wrote a summary of your chapter for inclusion in my book, & I want to credit you for that info: what's the best way to do it?" And Lyle said, "Credit me this way."

    I think if Lyle had actually seen the "summary" back then, he'd have said, "That's not a summary, that's an edited-down (i.e., plagiarized) version of my chapter."

    Furthermore, supposedly that chapter was gonna be in Afterburn II, but actually Alwyn put it in two products back then: Afterburn II (workouts) plus the Rapid Fat Loss Manual (when he'd only mentioned the first of these two products in his original email to Lyle). Then two years later, it appeared in yet another new work.

    I don't think Alwyn necessarily meant to do evil. But clearly he had a different understanding of the "agreement" he & Lyle made two years ago than Lyle did.
    • Alwyn thought "summary" meant "edited version of Lyle's chapter" whereas Lyle probably thought it meant "summary" -- i.e., a rundown, but in Alwyn's own words, of the info from Lyle's UD2.0 chapter.
    • Alwyn thought he had an "agreement" about use of the edited version of the chapter. Lyle thought Alwyn was seeking info on how to credit him, & provided it; there was no "agreement" per se, just info on how to credit.
    • Alwyn thought this supposed agreement meant he had blanket permission to continue to use the edited-down version of the chapter into the indefinite future for other products.
    In other words, Lyle never agreed to having an edited-down version of his chapter appear in even one, much less a succession, of Alwyn's products (unless someone can produce other emails showing he did). He only responded to a request for information on how to credit him for a summary, which is akin to asking an academic colleague how to cite a professional paper or journal article. Which is where Lyle's thinking would be likely to be, seeing as he spends a lot of time delving into scientific journals & making sure he cites info properly himself.

    I also found it interesting that in his email of explanation, Alwyn makes no mention of one of the other things Lyle mentioned in his blog about this, which was the uncredited verbatim use of Lyle's original Stubborn Fat Loss protocol (SFP 1.0) in New Rules of Lifting & again in the Warp Speed Fat Loss book, again completely uncredited.

    -- Mel
    Last edited by yksin; 07-11-2008 at 02:05 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by the iron addict View Post
    There was recently an article published in T-mag that had a boatload of stuff I wrote in it word for word. I see it happen all the time--SUCKS.

    Iron Addict
    Care to elaborate?
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by 101CavGrunt View Post
    Care to elaborate?
    x2 .
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by gecko2424 View Post
    pffft, most college papers turned in are cut and paste from internet research and then every other sentence reworded
    um...relevance?

    plagiarism. yes. does it effect someone's livelihood? no. doesnt come close, unless ur marketing you college papers.
    Last edited by perfectanjail; 07-11-2008 at 06:01 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by 101CavGrunt View Post
    Here's a post by TC on T-Nation:

    Guys,

    Never practice contempt prior to investigation.

    Here are the emails between Alwyn and Lyle concerning this allegation:
    Oh well that sums it up, doesn't it? Lyle told Alwyn how to credit him for a summary that went in a product two years ago.

    Lyle did *not* give permission for this new product, and based on his reaction, he had no idea of the extent of Alwyn's summary.

    I'd say this far from justifies it. Explains it, sure, but this is the kind of crap that happens when you've got e-celebrity gurus trying to get rich by putting out one garbage product after another.
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  20. #20
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    this is a joke, right? have you read lyle's blog post? those excerpts were not influenced or summarized, they were edited. they read a lot more like a Reader's Digest Condensed version. where did he give permission to copy material?

    Originally Posted by 101CavGrunt View Post
    Here's a post by TC on T-Nation:

    Guys,

    Never practice contempt prior to investigation.

    Here are the emails between Alwyn and Lyle concerning this allegation:



    Lyle,
    I want to address your public accusation of plagiarism and set the record straight.

    You may not recall but the chapter in question originally began life as a client handout - and then appeared in my what was tentatively titled Afterburn II and subsequently became two products - Afterburn II (workouts) and the "Real World Fat Loss" Manual.

    This was after prior agreement with you via email (see attached emails below).

    The chapter is found in the Real World Fat Loss (RWFL) Manual on pages 16-20. The chapter actually ends at the bottom of page 19. On page 20 of the manual the following text appears:

    Quote:
    (This chapter has been highly influenced by the work of Lyle McDonald and is essentially a very brief summary of his Fat Metabolism chapter in "The Ultimate Diet 2.0. I'd like to thank Lyle for his help both personally and professionally and his contributions to this field. I strongly urge you to check out Lyle's website �?? www.bodyrecomposition.net).
    When we reprinted this chapter from the RWFL manual into the Warp Speed Fat Loss product, the above paragraph was inadvertently omitted.

    This oversight was rectified immediately when this was brought to my attention.

    I want to reiterate that this was always listed as a summary of your chapter - never passed off as my work.

    The fact that the acknowledging paragraph was not included in WSFL was a huge oversight on my part, and I would have corrected it and rectified it with anyone who had purchased it immediately had you or anyone else simply brought this to my attention. I am deeply sorry about that omission.

    It was not my intention to not give proper credit, but it was my responsibility and I failed in that, and I want to make it publicly known that I fault no one but myself for that error.

    I would be happy to speak with you about this further if you want to give me a call.

    --
    Alwyn Cosgrove

    Above referenced email exchange:

    From Alwyn Cosgrove
    To Lyle McDonald
    Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:45 PM


    I'm also working on Afterburn II.

    I am going to put in a chapter on fat metabolism.
    To be honest it will be a short summary - nothing in depth.

    However your chapter in UD2.0 has influenced me the most, to the point where I'd feel uncomfortable not saying that directly in the text.
    basically the chapter will be primarily a summary of your chapter plus a few others (your chapter is 2200 words, the summary is about 600- 750).

    In other words I want to credit you directly in that chapter.

    So how do you prefer it was referenced - direct to you and your site, or direct to the book?


    AC


    Reply:


    From Lyle McDonald
    To Alwyn Cosgrove
    Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:53 PM


    Yes (all three)
    --
    Lyle



    My Reply:

    From Alwyn Cosgrove
    To Lyle McDonald
    Date Mon, Aug 14, 2006 at 8:58 PM
    mailed-by gmail.com

    On 8/14/06, Lyle McDonald wrote:

    >>So how do you prefer it was referenced - direct to you and your
    >>site, or direct to the book?

    >Yes (all three)


    Gotcha.

    AC
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  21. #21
    Preparing My Return Khryz's Avatar
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    Damn, this is messed up.
    I've still got a lot to learn.
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  22. #22
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    This news is spreading like wildfire, it's on all the major boards (t-nation, jp, br.com, menshealth, digg, etc). I hope Lyle and Alwyn can resolve this soon.
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  23. #23
    Registered User Mr.Hombre's Avatar
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    I hope Lyle sues his ass
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    ***CONSPIRACY THEORY***

    What if all this negative publicity is an attempt to maximize profits from the sale of BOTH books?

    From what I have read, all boards are discussing this, everyone is probably curious what the heck is so important with CKD, etc....perhaps both books will sell more now?

    (ps: This is a joke but a possibility nonetheless.)
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    Lyle has been strangely absent since he made his blog post, I wonder what he's up to...
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    Made in the U.S.S.R iNatalia's Avatar
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    'sup Matt, Mel. Proton Soup, you are in the negz already with only 13 posts???

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    Originally Posted by Mr_Ethics View Post
    Lyle has been strangely absent since he made his blog post, I wonder what he's up to...
    This is why I have my conspiracy theory on the table.
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    Originally Posted by Andalite View Post
    This is why I have my conspiracy theory on the table.
    Which is it going to be Andy?

    Meet PRs 430/285/525, Gym 440/335/550

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    At least this forum isn't filled with brainwashed Cosgrove supporters.
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  30. #30
    huh? getgot211's Avatar
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    I know a girl who keeps a notebook. in this notebook she writes down every single text message she both sends and receives. she writes down the person, date, time, and full text in said notebook that spans several years. it's very creepy, and goes right inline with the rest of psychotic personality.

    Alwyn keeping emails several years old around for 'just in case' moments reminds me of her.
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    Alwyn Cosgrove steals other peoples work.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=124530811
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