Bent over rows: overhand or underhand?

[groundkontrol]

I usually do them underhand because it feels more natural. Is there a difference between doing them with an overhand grip as opposed to an underhand one? Thanks.

[SquatDeadPress]

I do them overhand. I'm pretty sure that's the way you're supposed to do them. Or at least the recommended way.

[Khromosone]

I switch them up everynow and then

[DiamondDelts]

In my personal experience

Overhand helps to beef up the upper back

Underhand helps to beef up the lats.

[stealth_swimmer]

either way.

underhand uses the lats a little more IMO but puts the biceps into a position where they naturally wanna do more of the work, so ya gotta make a conscious effort not to use them as much and just pull with the shoulder blades. I feel overhand allows you to pull with the back muscles while not using the biceps as much. I also find that I am slightly stronger on underhand(like can lift maybe 5 pounds more or I can get just like a few reps more with the same weight...but it might just be the biceps coming into play more,lol)

[SquatTilYouDrop]

Isn't the underhand version kind of like a Yates row?

[ThickAsABrick]

I'm going to assume you're talking about Yates rows here.
If that is the case, then the only major difference between under and overhand grips is that you are forced to keep your elbows tucked (as opposed to flared) with an underhand grip, which keeps more emphasis on the lower lats. Some also get more biceps involvement with an underhand grip, although I don't.

[Dominik]

In my personal experience

Overhand helps to beef up the upper back

Underhand helps to beef up the lats.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how rotating the forearms changes anything back there. An underhand grip automatically forces you to keep the elbows tucked which puts the lats in their strongest position, but you can achieve the same thing with an overhand grip by keeping them tucked.

Rotate your forearm from an underhand to an overhand grip while feeling your lat on that side. Nothing happens. All it affects is biceps recruitment. And in the weakest position (overhand) it might force your back to work harder (which is why I like that grip for all my back work) but the same muscles are going to be involved.

[SquatTilYouDrop]

It would seem Yates rows do emphasize lats more since Dorian Yates was well Known was his credible lat sweep.

[Vadim Beliaev]

I want to minimize biceps involvement so i do mine overhand

[SquatTilYouDrop]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how rotating the forearms changes anything back there. An underhand grip automatically forces you to keep the elbows tucked which puts the lats in their strongest position, but you can achieve the same thing with an overhand grip by keeping them tucked.

Rotate your forearm from an underhand to an overhand grip while feeling your lat on that side. Nothing happens. All it affects is biceps recruitment. And in the weakest position (overhand) it might force your back to work harder (which is why I like that grip for all my back work) but the same muscles are going to be involved.

You are right but the tendency is to flare out the elbows on the over hand grip. On the underhand grip the alignment for a closer grip is more natural.

[AbAbber2k]

I do rows to hit my back, not my biceps, so I always go overhand.

[chazzy1864]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how rotating the forearms changes anything back there. An underhand grip automatically forces you to keep the elbows tucked which puts the lats in their strongest position, but you can achieve the same thing with an overhand grip by keeping them tucked.

Rotate your forearm from an underhand to an overhand grip while feeling your lat on that side. Nothing happens. All it affects is biceps recruitment. And in the weakest position (overhand) it might force your back to work harder (which is why I like that grip for all my back work) but the same muscles are going to be involved.

one possible thing, is I think (not confirmed....haven't paid enough attention really) that underhand you row to a lower location than overhand. Would that make a difference?

[Dominik]

I want to minimize biceps involvement so i do mine overhand

Ditto.

I just hear a lot of people (pro bodybuilders included) suggesting that underhand/overhand/hammer grips all affect which back muscles are emphasized. In my experience it's elbow position/grip width and torso angle which make a difference.

[Dominik]

one possible thing, is I think (not confirmed....haven't paid enough attention really) that underhand you row to a lower location than overhand. Would that make a difference?

You can duplicate it with both grips. I think an underhand grip might help beginner-intermediate lifters get a feel for engaging the lats since it automatically forces the elbows into a tucked position where they're strongest, but like I said it can easily be duplicated with an overhand grip.

I do all my back work with an overhand grip and haven't noticed any difference, other than the biceps are in a weaker position so I'm using a little less weight (but I feel the back working harder), but the same muscles are targeted nonetheless.

[SquatTilYouDrop]

You can duplicate it with both grips. I think an underhand grip might help beginner-intermediate lifters get a feel for engaging the lats since it automatically forces the elbows into a tucked position where they're strongest, but like I said it can easily be duplicated with an overhand grip.

I do all my back work with an overhand grip and haven't noticed any difference, other than the biceps are in a weaker position so I'm using a little less weight (but I feel the back working harder), but the same muscles are targeted nonetheless.

You can take any grip you want and place your elbows in the correct alignment for the targeted muscle whether it's traps, lats, etc...., but it may be easier to do so with different grips.

If one can really make that mind muscle connection the underhand grip with its better elbow alignment can still take the biceps out of it and place full emphasis on the lats. This, of course, would be for someone who was advanced. This would be very true of Dorian Yates.

Maybe the average body builder should stick with the over hand grips. That's what I do.

The underhand grip is alien to me but it's intriguing.

[Dominik]

If one can really make that mind muscle connection the underhand grip with its better elbow alignment can still take the biceps out of it and place full emphasis on the lats. This, of course, would be for someone who was advanced. This would be very true of Dorian Yates.

I personally wouldn't want to row heavy weight with an underhand grip. Whether Dorian's biceps tear from that exercise was a freak accident or not, I'd rather not test it out. I can't see any advantages over an overhand grip.

[Kiknskreem]

Some also get more biceps involvement with an underhand grip, although I don't.

Since supinating the hand activates the biceps, I would imagine that you do, you just don't notice it.

[BG5150]

I'm going to assume you're talking about Yates rows here.
If that is the case, then the only major difference between under and overhand grips is that you are forced to keep your elbows tucked (as opposed to flared) with an underhand grip, which keeps more emphasis on the lower lats. Some also get more biceps involvement with an underhand grip, although I don't.

Can you tell me where the "lower" lats are located? I thought they were just one muscle on each side.

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/LatissimusDorsi.html

[chazzy1864]

You can duplicate it with both grips. I think an underhand grip might help beginner-intermediate lifters get a feel for engaging the lats since it automatically forces the elbows into a tucked position where they're strongest, but like I said it can easily be duplicated with an overhand grip.

I do all my back work with an overhand grip and haven't noticed any difference, other than the biceps are in a weaker position so I'm using a little less weight (but I feel the back working harder), but the same muscles are targeted nonetheless.

true, I'm sure it is just like with bench press. People use close grip bench press to target tris, when really the main thing is elbow position, etc. It is just easier to get the alignment you want with varying grips.

[NathanTurner]

Through experimentation, I've found that I get much more back stimulation from using an overhand, thumbless grip while rowing the bar to the solar plexus region. I tend not to go very heavy on these, focusing instead on quality of muscle stimulation, the highest I've gone being 190x5 or so.

[ThickAsABrick]

Since supinating the hand activates the biceps, I would imagine that you do, you just don't notice it.

My theory is that (like with most back exercises) those with higher biceps insertion points generally are going to to get less stimulation.

Can you tell me where the "lower" lats are located? I thought they were just one muscle on each side.

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/LatissimusDorsi.html

you should stop posting

[SquatTilYouDrop]

My theory is that (like with most back exercises) those with higher biceps insertion points generally are going to to get less stimulation.

In before "the no insertion point" police come in.

[Kiknskreem]

My theory is that (like with most back exercises) those with higher biceps insertion points generally are going to to get less stimulation.

Ah.. less stimulation.

I would imagine you are of course coming from this in a BB'ing perspective, in terms of meaningfully working the muscle in that context.

I am coming at it from an exercise physiology perspective.

So I think we are both correct in what we mean.

[ThickAsABrick]

Ah.. less stimulation.

I would imagine you are of course coming from this in a BB'ing perspective, in terms of meaningfully working the muscle in that context.

I am coming at it from an exercise physiology perspective.

So I think we are both correct in what we mean.

right on

[BG5150]

you should stop posting

Just so we are clear: It is possible for me to work the lower part of a single muscle? Maybe I should stop posting, because I did not think it was possible.

[ThickAsABrick]

Maybe I should stop posting, because I did not think it was possible.

agreed

probably best to wait until you have a basic understanding of training

[hulkinout]

In my personal experience

Overhand helps to beef up the upper back

Underhand helps to beef up the lats.

I'm with the wide man. With overhand, the tendency is to keep your elbows out; with underhands, the tendency is to keep you elbows in.

It's more about the elbow position than the specific grip as to what part of your back is worked. I assume however, you get more bicep work as well with the underhand.

[BG5150]

agreed

probably best to wait until you have a basic understanding of training

So, please enlighten me. How is it possible to target the "lower lats"? I'm here to learn and get a basic understanding of training.

[ironwill2008]

I personally wouldn't want to row heavy weight with an underhand grip. Whether Dorian's biceps tear from that exercise was a freak accident or not, I'd rather not test it out. I can't see any advantages over an overhand grip.

I think this is the bigger issue; biceps and biceps tendons heal slowly.Why take a chance, for little or no improvement over a conventional overhand grip?