The theory goes that:
- Heavy weight, low reps creates hard, dense muscle
- Light weight, high reps creates big, soft muscle
Always sounded like broscience to me. Muscle is muscle right?
Surely “soft” muscle would just mean you’re carrying extra fat (and to some extent, water weight)?
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02-21-2021, 12:56 AM #1
Do you believe in “Myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic” hypertrophy?
*Deadlifts pants after taking a chit crew*
*Typos can go fucl themselves crew*
*Nice miscer crew*
*Loves reps, hates negs crew*
*Faps before workout crew*
*12+ hours of sleep crew*
*Faps during workout crew*
*Hates onions crew*
*Faps after workout crew*
*No fap crew*
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02-21-2021, 01:14 AM #2
- Join Date: Jan 2007
- Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 54,513
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No I don't think you can pick one or the other by altering rep counts. Perhaps a very slight bias - mostly due to glycogen levels.
Some resources on this:
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/sa...r-hypertrophy/
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/sa...ophy-relevant/
Bottom line for me is that if you make a muscle bigger it will also be stronger. You never get "pure" sarcoplasm growth and "weak bodybuilder" muscles. Intuitively I see the extra size from higher reps as an accomodation for more fuel for the greater endurance requirement - but this is speculation.
Looking at strength differences between bodybuilders and powerlifters or weightlifters is not a valid way to assess degree of sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. However, dismissing sarcoplasmic hypertrophy simply because there are better explanations for the observed differences in relative strength is foolhardy.
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02-21-2021, 05:23 AM #3
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02-21-2021, 06:30 AM #4
Ask Stan Efferding. He flip flops between the sports and I’m sure the amount of muscle he carries definitely helps with powerlifting.
Ben Pollock says similar things, as does Wendler and Paul Carter. In other words: do both.Age: 30
"If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants"
-Sir Isaac Newton
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02-21-2021, 08:59 AM #5
- Join Date: Aug 2015
- Location: Bayside, California, United States
- Age: 23
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To clarify, myofibrillar hypertrophy is very well established, that's basically what you think of when you think of the word "hypertrophy". It refers to the actual growth of myofibrils (hence the name) in response to a stimulus, leading to larger and stronger muscles. It doesn't have anything to do with high vs low rep ranges, unless you want to get into the whole "optimal rep range" debate.
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is a bit more controversial, because the idea is essentially that training very high volumes with generally lower weights (just in order to pump the reps in) will lead to adaptations involving increased sarcoplasmic proteins and, iirc, small amounts of fluids. An increase of stuff in the sarcoplasm will have the result of larger muscles without actual GROWTH of the muscle, because it's simply being expanded.
There is some decent evidence that this happens, but you certainly won't end up with "big, soft muscle" by any means.BP: 280
SQ: 455
DL: 585
Bodyweight 185
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02-21-2021, 10:37 AM #6
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02-21-2021, 11:10 AM #7
- Join Date: Aug 2015
- Location: Bayside, California, United States
- Age: 23
- Posts: 1,364
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The idea is that by training for a crazy pump often enough (which is super tough on your muscles) they'll adapt to accommodate that stress. Part of that accommodation involves increases in proteins and stuff in the sarcoplasm. So the effects would eventually become relatively permanent as long as the muscles were undergoing that training.
BP: 280
SQ: 455
DL: 585
Bodyweight 185
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02-21-2021, 11:19 AM #8
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02-21-2021, 11:26 AM #9
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02-21-2021, 11:26 AM #10
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02-21-2021, 11:35 AM #11
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02-21-2021, 12:31 PM #12
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02-21-2021, 12:44 PM #13
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02-21-2021, 12:45 PM #14
- Join Date: Aug 2015
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02-21-2021, 12:50 PM #15
Two reviews published in the last year that touch on this topic for those who want to read more in depth:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...s-11-00816.pdf - this more directly addresses the question
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...-30-3-9311.pdf - this goes through various mechanisms by which a person can get stronger, for those curious as it's somewhat related
Both are open access and I generally try not to summarize open access things but if they are too complicated/confusing for some reason I will provide summaries.My 100% free website: healthierwithscience.com
My YouTube channel: youtube.com/@benjaminlevinsonmd17
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02-21-2021, 01:14 PM #16
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02-21-2021, 01:30 PM #17
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02-21-2021, 04:15 PM #18
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02-21-2021, 04:55 PM #19
- Join Date: Aug 2015
- Location: Bayside, California, United States
- Age: 23
- Posts: 1,364
- Rep Power: 15627
Basically what happened when I first started getting into this stuff in late middle school lol. My 13-year old head couldn't keep track of conflicting studies and stuff, I probably changed my mind about training styles every few weeks all the way through high school. Definitely screwed myself out of 3 or 4 years where I spun my wheels instead of making progress, but ah well.
BP: 280
SQ: 455
DL: 585
Bodyweight 185
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02-21-2021, 04:56 PM #20
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02-21-2021, 05:11 PM #21
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02-21-2021, 05:56 PM #22
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02-21-2021, 06:14 PM #23
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02-21-2021, 06:30 PM #24
I was wondering about this, as it has been brought up with the established take on muscle memory. What Scott Herman said with myonuclear recruitment in super regular training also, but I'm generally scared to ask about people's opinion on that.
I mean it generally seems to cover both high-rep and low-rep training, with sacroplasm and "real" hypertrophy having its place. Also gives me an idea technique development, which is pretty interesting when considering calisthenics (along with deadlift and other basic but complex exercises etc.)Last edited by GeneralSerpant; 02-21-2021 at 06:36 PM.
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02-22-2021, 05:03 AM #25
- Join Date: Jan 2015
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Scott seems a decent guy.. Is way off the mark with a lot of his stuff tho.
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/my...muscle-memory/
This is a great read if anyone else cares 😂FMH crew - Couch.
'pick a program from the stickies' = biggest cop out post.
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02-22-2021, 05:07 AM #26
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02-23-2021, 07:19 AM #27
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