Results of my third (final?) drastic 30-day cut! Bonus: "1-day drastic cut!!"

[peterm28]

EDIT: tl;dr - this picture shows my complete 90-day transformation: https://ibb.co/Z12Jdb9 (wearing pants). My program "worked" but I didn't drop as many points bodyfat as I hoped. I look a lot better and didn't get weaker.

EDIT2: some people say the above is just leaning forward and flexing a bit - don't have a full 90-day but here is a 60-day comparison of the same pose, wearing pants that are too tight - this should make it really obvious: https://ibb.co/4SfkQXG

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If you're new to my threads, I set out on a series of 30-day challenges, in which I attempted to cut vast amount of bodyfat using hours and hours of cardio every day. It hardly worked. But I'm extremely happy with the results.

The first was here: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=177788181

The second was here: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=177868931

And this post is about the third (and final?) 30-day challenge.

I was very happy with my progress, and yesterday I completed the last day (day 30) of my third 30-day challenge.

But first I want to show you something pretty amazing, which is the difference that a cut of a SINGLE day makes: the first picture below was taken yesterday in the morning, before I exercised, and without flexing.

The second was after several hours of cardio, using the sauna for 30 minutes, getting a good pump, and flexing for the picture.

In total between the morning and evening pictures I lost 1.2 kg (2.64 lbs) of, obviously, water weight: equivalent to 1.2 liters of water, as well as getting a pump and flexing. Can you imagine if I also had eaten in the morning (I didn't, I was in a fasted state), puffed out my stomach, had poor posture? (In fact the left-hand side is just a neutral posture.) Can you imagine if I got a tan as well?

This 1-day transformation shows that **when someone is selling you something, before/after pictures are useless scams.**

If I really wanted to scam anyone, I could have stayed in the sauna for 2-3 hours instead of just 20-30 minutes. I could have skipped cardio yesterday and worked so hard on getting a pump on each bodypart. And I could have gotten a tan to boot, or studio lighting. (The two pictures are in the exact same environment with the exact same lightbulb.)

So unlike scam programs, I am very careful to compare like-for-like. Always note what condition I say my pictures are in. Am I flexing? Is it before or after a workout? Am I hydrated or dehydrated?

Anyway, here is what my drastic, miracle "one-day drastic cut pictures" look like:

https://imgur.com/a/uBm1aX7

Can you imagine if on the left, I had eaten something (it's actually fasted state, no full stomach) or had purposely bad posture (my posture is neutral); or if I got a tan before taking the pic on the right, or used different/better lighting? (The lighting is the same.)

It is very easy to show a "big" change, even though, obviously, nothing changes within the same day.

For this reason I keep careful track of whether my pictures are in pumped/flexed or unflexed states.

2. The actual results of the experiment:

Before I show the like-for-like before/after, I must say that I am absolutely thrilled with my progress. I am much stronger than 30 days ago, can go longer and harder on cardio (when I was sweating doing cardio yesterday, I surprised even myself), and I get much more attention. Not going to get into the details but I look and feel amazing.

I fit into my "reference pants" (which are several sizes too small) which I use to check my bodyfat percentage, though they're not quite comfortable yet. However I can now wear them.

At the gym, I'm able to move weights on isolation machines that I couldn't move before.

I would say I am very happy with my program subjectively speaking.

What I learned in the past 30 days:
I consulted with the forum several times in the past 30 days. The biggest point of feedback I received was to "get on a program", rather than haphazardly combining exercises without any regard for what I'm doing.

I am not going to follow this advice. I am very happy with my progress and I think I will follow it. The bodybuilders I follow don't follow a very rigorous program, but instead work out based on what they feel in the moment. That said, I have recently installed a fitness tracking app that lets me put in reps and sets. It's too early to say whether I will actually use it.

The scale itself isn't moving much, it is true.

Finally, I'd like to remind people that my heros in youtube videos always said that "consistency is key". Don't give up. If you have a bad day, that doesn't mean you should throw it all away.

Here's a comparison between the right-hand picture and 30 days ago (though 30 days ago I didn't do the sauna):

https://imgur.com/a/jKHOiOX

As before, you have to look at my chin to see how much better I look.

It isn't really meant for public consumption but if you like you can take a quick look at my workout journal, here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...GgC4tx/pubhtml

The weigh-ins (in the columns at the very right) are very accurate, they're all taken in the morning after I use the bathroom. I expect that the bodyfat percentage meter is not so accurate however,

As you can see, I had a total of 13 rest days out of 30 days (meaning 17 days that I actually went to the gym).

In terms of stats, I went from 16.6% bodyfat, 84.0 kg=185.18 lbs on 31 December, 2019 to 15.6% bodyfat, 81.5 kg for a total loss of 2.5 kg = 5.51 lbs of lost bodyweight.

However, if the readings of bodyfat percentage are accurate then I can calculate:

* on 31 December, 2019 I had 16.6% bodyfat on 84 kg [=185.1883 lbs] meaning 13.944 kg [=30.74125 lbs] of fat and 70.056 kg [=154.4470 lbs] lean body weight

* yesterday (on January 28, 2020) I had 15.6% bodyfat on 81.5 kg [=179.6767 lbs] so 12.714 kg [=28.0295 lbs] of fat and 68.786 kg [=151.6471 lbs] of lean body weight.

This means I lost 1.27 kg [=2.7998 lbs] of lean body mass and 1.23 kg [=2.7116 lbs] of fat in 30 days.

In sum it means although I lost 5.51 lbs of bodyweight, I lost 2.71 of fat and 2.8 lbs of lean body weight.

Obviously this isn't *fantastic* but it is in line with the figures I calculated previously tracking my progress.

It is possible the bodyfat percentage scale isn't completely accurate.

I kept in mind the forum advice to "eat less", however on a few different days I couldn't resist the temptation.

I ate three popcorns on one particular day, for a total of an extra 1389 Calories. I had to try not to eat much else and work hard the next day. A double cheeseburger is 437 Calories and I ate one on one particular day.

It's hard to really come to terms with this, but if during the past 30 days I had skipped only just those 3 popcorns, just the double cheeseburger, and just 3 beers on three different occasions, that would have equalled 1389+437+1800= 3626 Cal which is more than 1 lb of fat.

Just by not drinking so much beer or eating popcorn and 1 cheesburger I could have lost 1 lb of fat, increasing my fat loss by 36%.

However, I still made good progress toward my goal.

I am very far from the 12% bodyfat that I would have wanted; but I am 1% bodyfat closer (15.6% instead of 16.6%). If I lost another percentage every month I would be at 12% by April and maybe even sub 10% by summer.

This rate of cutting is much less than what others were able to cut, however. In response to my question, someone else (who I have every reason to believe) wrote in this thread: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=177966571

, specifically @sunsean, mentions "I can usually get from around 20% to 10-12% in 3 months.

Keep in mind this is all relative...thermodynamics are universal, but everyone's body and metabolism performs a little differently. Also these are body fat estimates. Further, not everyone loses weight uniformly, for example maybe person A retains all their muscle while person B loses a few lbs, which affects overall body composition.

I'm 5'8/5'9 and usually cut from 185 to 165, or thereabouts."

As seen in that person's avatar, he is far, far more muscular than me.

So although the goal of my three-month program was to get cut like a twig, without building a lot of muscle, I can't say that I wouldn't prefer to have his body; and he can cut in 3 months in a way that I can't, with all my cardio.

Which raises the question: now do I cut or bulk?

I haven't decided yet. All of this cardio has taken an immense amount of time. I like my body a lot. But if someone else can do in 3 months what I can't on my program (cut to 10-12% bodyfat), then maybe I am doing something wrong.

I welcome any feedback or questions, and hope my research and detailed notes have of use to someone.

Happy to answer any question anyone might have.

Finally, here is a like-for-like unflexed, unpumped comparison of the end of the second (day 25 of the second, before christmas eating) versus the end of the third experiment: https://imgur.com/a/3Di01y5

You may think they look almost the same (which is true) but the chin looks better slightly. If you look at the collarbone you can can see it a bit more clearly. As someone who is currently *in* the right-hand one every day, it is clearly better.

Let me know any questions you might have.

[dylanstephens54]

Not reading that essay

[air2fakie]

I stopped reading after the 1-day cut info and didn't want to sign in just to see pics of OP in his underoos again, but assume I know what the rest said more or less.

For everyone's convenience ...

I'll summarize what I did read:
- Ppl in pics look different if in one you're relaxed and don't flex, and the other you do a flex pose. Who knew?

and I'll summarize what I didn't read/see (for anyone who reads the whole thing and opens the pics, feel free to correct my assumptions):
- He looks exactly the same except his jawline shows massive improvement
- He weights ~1 lb less, and ~0.5% less bf
- He ate inconsistently and took body measurements before and after his daily dump
- He went to the gym inconsistently and didn't have a set workout routine
- Even though he made no progress, he feels great and is extremely happy with the results and is going to do another 30-day experiment

[peterm28]

actually @air2fakie's summary is pretty accurate. for convenience here I put pants on the images: https://ibb.co/Nmr3xjc

the one on the right is slightly more dehydrated due to going to the sauna as well. looks improved to me versus 30 days earlier.

[DCSpartan]

Youve done 3 30 day challenges in a month. The troll is strong in you.

[randomcrash]

Youve done 3 30 day challenges in a month. The troll is strong in you.

Imagine typing all that out for no one to read it. Who trolled who?

[Hutrapper]

You again.

It's not often I am totally lost for words.


Yet here I am... Nothing

[Xpiro]

I’m curious about what you can pull off in 30 minutes.

[FurtadoZ9]

I repped you in your first thread, thinking you were destined for great things.

I was terribly wrong.

[TAWS6]

I repped you in your first thread, thinking you were destined for great things.

I was terribly wrong.

The amount of nonsense posted on this forum daily makes my head spin. I might retire from this place soon lol

[rsid97]

But if someone else can do in 3 months what I can't on my program (cut to 10-12% bodyfat), then maybe I am doing everything wrong.

Corrected that for you there OP

[peterm28]

Youve done 3 30 day challenges in a month.

It might seem like a month but no, it's been three months: I posted my first 30-day challenge results on 11-30-2019, my second 30-day challenge results on 12-25-2019 (on day 25 of that challenge) and the third 30-day challenge results yesterday (01-29-2020). After all this time I didn't succeed in dropping to 12% bodyfat so now I will do something different.

I repped you in your first thread, thinking you were destined for great things.
I was terribly wrong.

I thought that I would be at 12% bodyfat by now using my program. This obviously didn't work, since I only just dropped to 15.6%. According to the thread where I asked, other people are able to drop to 12% or even lower within the same timeframe of about 90 days.

So it didn't really "work". However, I am stronger on every isolation machine, have a lot of stamina during cardio, and get a lot of positive attention and more. The forum predicted that I would end up looking like The Machinist, which Christian Bale prepped for by near anorexia every day (like 1 coffee and 1 apple per day for months on end, for 4 months, according to the Wikipedia article). That didn't happen either.

People are giving me flak for failing at my experiment in the sense that I didn't get to 12% bodyfat, but I like my progress and prefer to be in the body I have now than any other body I've had at any other period in my life.

I haven't decided what I should do next to get to my goal physique (which is kind of wiry with 10%-12% bodyfat). I think I may use the program (app) I installed, to track a split workout based primarily on lifting, while not eating much besides minimum amounts of protein.

It may be possible that I don't have enough muscle in total, to do an effective cut, and that I should be bulking first. However my weight at 179.67 lbs with 15.6% bodyfat implies that I should have enough muscle on my body to cut effectively.

I will ask the forum. My goal physique isn't a bodybuilder physique, but more like "skinny male model" physique. If you Google image search "skinny male model" you can find what I mean.

I thought I would be there by now, but it hasn't happened. So, now I will change things up a bit.

[peterm28]

I am doing everything wrong.

Corrected that for you there OP

What do you think I should do now to get to my goal of having a "skinny male model physique" with about 10-12% bodyfat?

I mean in terms of food and exercise. I thought I would be there by now but obviously not.

[dylanstephens54]

What do you think I should do now to get to my goal of having a "skinny male model physique" with about 10-12% bodyfat?

I mean in terms of food and exercise. I thought I would be there by now but obviously not.

Why would you eat? Just drink water obviously eat nothing

Also there is literaly 0 diffrence between any of your so called progress pics

[peterm28]

Also there is literaly 0 diffrence between any of your so called progress pics

This picture says otherwise: https://ibb.co/Z12Jdb9

That said, that one is an "unfair" comparison (pumped, flexing, while dehydrated, versus no pump and not flexing). But there is a clear difference, and I couldn't have produced the one on the right 90 days ago except with photoshop.

I am always careful to make extremely direct, like-for-like comparisons - which is why you think there is "literally 0 difference" between my pics, even as I've gotten into the best shape I've ever had in my life.

Obviously, I do know what you mean about relatively slow progress.

I myself was expecting a much larger difference, due to the huge number of high-intensity hours I was putting in at the gym in the past 90 days doing cardio. I also made a concerted effort to reduce my daily calories.

However, there is a clear difference in my body composition, which is obvious in the mirror and from everyone's reactions. I am not going to get into details but it is very, very clear.

I know I'm stronger and have much more stamina.

In reviewing the thread I posted at the end of the second challenge, I noticed there was a question about benchpress.

Today I wanted to see if my strength increased or decreased, so I went with the primary intention of seeing how much I could bench press on the smith machine. I first loaded it up with 20 kg (44 lbs) of extra weight, for a total of 73.7 kg (162.48 lbs) including the weight of the bar. I couldn't make it even budge. I crawled out from under the bar and took off the two 10 kg plates and replaced them with small 5 kg plates, for a total of 63.7 kg (140.43 lbs) including the weight of the bar. I still couldn't make it even budge. Finally I took off the extra weights and tried again with the same weight I did at the end of the last challenge: 53.7 kg (118.38 lbs) including the weight of the bar. I was able to do a couple of complete good reps and part of a third one (whereas I had done 6 reps the end of the previous one). I chalked the fact that I could only do 2 reps to not being fully recovered from the day before, but essentially this means that my strength didn't either increase or decrease - as measured by the bench press on the smith machine - between the end of the second and the end of the third (this) final challenge.

The progress has been very clear to me based on the mirror and my strengths, but it is much less than the amount of fat other people were able to lose in a similar amount of time.

According to the scale, I dropped just 1% of bodyfat (16.6% to 15.6%) in 30 days, despite going to the gym 17 days, many of them doing extremely intense cardio, sometimes for 3.5 hours at the gym.

I didn't meet my bodyfat percentage goals and I could almost call it a waste of enormous amounts of my time.

The experiment is now concluded, and I'll do something else.

[air2fakie]

I consulted with the forum several times in the past 30 days. The biggest point of feedback I received was to "get on a program", rather than haphazardly combining exercises without any regard for what I'm doing. I am not going to follow this advice.

This is the only accurate statement in any of your posts about the overall advice you've gotten.

I am not going to follow this advice. ... I am very happy with my progress and I think I will follow it.

Please just go do it and stop pretending like you want anything except for ppl to look at your underwear pics. You can continue to give progress reports on your Workout journal page.

[peterm28]

This picture says otherwise: https://ibb.co/Z12Jdb9 [pants in both]

But I can't let an unfair comparison stand. Here is the fair 90-day comparison, both unflexed: https://ibb.co/3zXkT5S (pants in both)

The contrast was different but since the light source and my position is the same I think it's fair to fix it by adjusting the brightness in photoshop, I'll try to do this. and then update this comment

--

EDIT: I wasn't able to edit it effectively.

[air2fakie]

Haven't opened any of your pics. I'll take your word on how you look in your underwear. Please post updates on your journal page for the viewing pleasure of your fans.

I'll summarize what I didn't read/see ... He looks exactly the same except his jawline shows massive improvement

actually @air2fakie's summary is pretty accurate.

[peterm28]

This is the only accurate statement in any of your posts about the overall advice you've gotten.

I think a big one is to cut the overall number of Calories. Also I substantially increased the amount of protein I'm eating every day, due to advice in the forum. Also you don't count stuff like my posts about the vibration machine, one of the machines in the cardio room. After asking about it in the forum, I decided not to even touch it, so I haven't used it even just once.

Please just go do it and stop pretending like you want anything except for ppl to look at your underwear pics.

This isn't one of my motivations; I didn't think it mattered. I'll start indicating whether I'm wearing pants in the pics.

[air2fakie]

Please post progress on your journal page, that's what it's there for. We'll check on your muscle development from the vibration machine there. Thanks!

[peterm28]

Please post progress on your journal page, that's what it's there for. We'll check on your muscle development from the vibration machine there. Thanks!

all right I did so here: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=177888181

feel free to give me any feedback on how to meet my goals of getting to 10-12% bodyfat, as clearly what I'm doing isn't doing much.

[DCSpartan]

tldr 30 day challenge version for peterm

did the elliptical one day for 2 hours
skipped the next 29 days of workouts

no change in body comp

[FatBallz]

all right I did so here: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=177888181

feel free to give me any feedback on how to meet my goals of getting to 10-12% bodyfat, as clearly what I'm doing isn't doing much.

Here's some advice. Quit dicking around with your so-called "challenges" and lift on a normal program and eat accordingly, depending on your goals. You are doing nothing but wasting your time right now. You would probably have some decent progress if you just did things properly from the start.

[FurtadoZ9]

The amount of nonsense posted on this forum daily makes my head spin. I might retire from this place soon lol

let the good times roll

[OldFartTom]

It is even more effective when the body is ready. Modern living prevents a lot of the amazing adaptions that our hunter gatherer bodies are capable of, food additives, chemtrails and other day to day pollutants. One of the worst is EM pollution. OP needs to keep away from any electromagnetic or electronic devices as these can emit EM. OP especially needs to keep away from any device or equipment of any kind (even hand held) which can read or post information to the internet. After a couple of years of that I'm sure OPs miracle gains will continue.

[Hutrapper]

Here's some advice. Quit dicking around with your so-called "challenges" and lift on a normal program and eat accordingly, depending on your goals. You are doing nothing but wasting your time right now. You would probably have some decent progress if you just did things properly from the start.

Incorrect sir..


He is also wasting our time.

[peterm28]

tldr 30 day challenge version for peterm

did the elliptical one day for 2 hours
skipped the next 29 days of workouts

no change in body comp

I don't see how anyone can look at this and not see a very clear change: https://ibb.co/Z12Jdb9 (both pictures have pants). That is the full 90-day transformation.

It's obviously a vast difference.

no change in body comp

I dropped a couple of percentage points of fat since the start of the program, think I gained some muscle (since I'm at the same weight), look better, fit into smaller clothes I couldn't fit in before, get more looks and unsolicited touches from the opposite sex, including a hot girl literally jumping up on me and putting her legs around me on the dance floor (didn't happen before), and have more stamina and endurance.

I worked out 17 days out of 30 and had 13 rest days on this third challenge. I worked off the holiday fat no problem.

You are correct about 2 hours on the elliptical (arc machine), also used the stepper (stair machine) and recumbent bike though, as well as simply walking on a treadmill (sometimes at an incline).


That said, I didn't meet what I calculated would happen, which is to get to 10%-12% bodyfat. Now the experiments are over (even though in some senses they were very successful) and it's time to do something else.

Such as bulk using an actual program. I tried this fitness tracking app (start with a J) and it includes a split workout with a very exact program, I think I will follow it.

Anyway even if nobody else cares about my results, I'm happy with it. In a very general sense they match what I was expecting to happen.

Did body recomposition happen? I think so. Was it a waste of time? It's hard to say - the stamina and cardiovascular benefits are definitely worth something. In terms of pure aesthetics I probably should have just bulked to get more muscle, on a real actual split program based on lifting (similar to what I'll be starting now), and then after getting some actual muscle, cut by simply reducing my calories. This cardio-based program I tried for myself didn't get me to 12% bodyfat in 90 days, whereas for people who have put in the time to follow a program and build a ton of muscle, that kind of a cut is easy.

The forum's predictions that I would end up looking emaciated or like a holocaust victim were also false, this clearly didn't happen despite the vast amounts of very high intensity cardio.

Would I do it again? Sure. I learned a lot. Also I didn't get even 1 injury (which often happens when people act like idiots.) I consider my contribution very real.

However, it's time to get on a real program now.

[WakingOp]

I don't see how anyone can look at this and not see a very clear change: https://ibb.co/Z12Jdb9 (both pictures have pants). That is the full 90-day transformation.

It's obviously a vast difference.



I dropped a couple of percentage points of fat since the start of the program, think I gained some muscle (since I'm at the same weight), look better, fit into smaller clothes I couldn't fit in before, get more looks and unsolicited touches from the opposite sex, including a hot girl literally jumping up on me and putting her legs around me on the dance floor (didn't happen before), and have more stamina and endurance.

I worked out 17 days out of 30 and had 13 rest days on this third challenge. I worked off the holiday fat no problem.

You are correct about 2 hours on the elliptical (arc machine), also used the stepper (stair machine) and recumbent bike though, as well as simply walking on a treadmill (sometimes at an incline).


That said, I didn't meet what I calculated would happen, which is to get to 10%-12% bodyfat. Now the experiments are over (even though in some senses they were very successful) and it's time to do something else.

Such as bulk using an actual program. I tried this fitness tracking app (start with a J) and it includes a split workout with a very exact program, I think I will follow it.

Anyway even if nobody else cares about my results, I'm happy with it. In a very general sense they match what I was expecting to happen.

Did body recomposition happen? I think so. Was it a waste of time? It's hard to say - the stamina and cardiovascular benefits are definitely worth something. In terms of pure aesthetics I probably should have just bulked to get more muscle, on a real actual split program based on lifting (similar to what I'll be starting now), and then after getting some actual muscle, cut by simply reducing my calories. This cardio-based program I tried for myself didn't get me to 12% bodyfat in 90 days, whereas for people who have put in the time to follow a program and build a ton of muscle, that kind of a cut is easy.

The forum's predictions that I would end up looking emaciated or like a holocaust victim were also false, this clearly didn't happen despite the vast amounts of very high intensity cardio.

Would I do it again? Sure. I learned a lot.

However, it's time to get on a real program now.

Worked out 17/30 days = vast amounts of cardio. In boot camp we ran four an hour every morning 70/70 days. Then another hour after lunch. And another hour some other time. And probably at some point in the night. Plus literally everywhere we went. That was a lot of cardio

[air2fakie]

The forum's predictions that I would end up looking emaciated or like a holocaust victim were also false, this clearly didn't happen despite the vast amounts of very high intensity cardio.

Everyone said you'd be wasting your time, doing a ton of work and look the same. Seriously, stop repeatedly misstating that. Similar to how you said before that everyone said "only idiots do cardio." Not what ppl were saying. And yes, you can do tons of cardio and look exactly the same if you eat whatever you want - why you would view that as an accomplishment during a cut I have no idea.

However, it's time to get on a real program now.

Don't try to trick ppl unfamiliar with your BS into giving you advice that you're going to repeatedly question then ultimately ignore for some made up alternating-day bulk/cut theory. No one's falling for the "I'm open to advice" trap. And please put future updates in your journal.

From your original post above:

I consulted with the forum several times in the past 30 days. The biggest point of feedback I received was to "get on a program", rather than haphazardly combining exercises without any regard for what I'm doing.

I am not going to follow this advice.

[peterm28]

Worked out 17/30 days = vast amounts of cardio. In boot camp we ran four an hour every morning 70/70 days. Then another hour after lunch. And another hour some other time. And probably at some point in the night. Plus literally everywhere we went. That was a lot of cardio

An hour every day is less than 3 hours every 2 days brah. When I say vast amounts of cardio I mean it. Much, much more than an hour. My phone died sometimes. You can see my log linked in my write-up for exact times.

That said, your example (which nobody mentioned before) is actually pretty good evidence that body recomposition through a ton of cardio is possible. I imagine most everyone who went through the 70 days you mention got more muscular (due to pushups/PT) and leaner (lower bodyfat percentage), and more muscular (more lbs of muscle, stronger) despite eating a healthy amount daily.

Which (if true - I'm just guessing, I didn't see the stats for the people you mention) would show a similar result to my experiment, showing that you can both lose fat doing a lot of cardio while staying strong/muscular and eating a healthy amount. Pretty much exactly what I showed.

What do you think about my 90-day before/after? Similar to the boot camp example you mentioned? Worse? Better? https://ibb.co/Z12Jdb9

I like your example a lot, and thanks for introducing it to this conversation.