IFBB "Pro" a bold faced liar

[hiramabiff100]

Really? Because I happen to have a copy of his biography in front of me, and he said clearly that it was a genetic disorder. In fact, his aunt had it as well.

Btw, I've homebrewed my own gear in the past. If you knew wtf you were talking about, you'd understand that is really a simple and safe process when done with care.

And FYI, your stereotyping of the typical steroid user lends no credibility to your intelligience or tolerance. How many IFBB pros are on massive amounts of gear? How many have as you say, bad acne, bitch tits or hair coming out of their forehead? Actually...amuse me...name just one.

You're right. I don't know what the **** I'm talking about. I MUST HAVE MADE UP ALL THOSE NASTY SIDE EFFECTS , RIGHT? I'm not in the practice of looking at other bb'ers nuts, so I can't prove they are shrunken. They shave all their body hair, so unless I sneak into their house and check their shower drains, I'll never be able to prove that either. "Bacne" is a proven, documented side effect of steroid-you call it "abuse", I'll call "use". I'm no cop or lawyer, but ANY use of a banned substance is legally considered abuse. As for bitch tits ,look at -just to name one- Johnnie Jackson. Probably, a great guy, strong as hell , dedicated and hard working. But even Flex magazine singled him out as having bitch tits.

I'm proud to not "know what I'm talking about" when it comes to homemade steroids, thanks anyways. I sincerely hope that was not your best comeback.
I must be an idiot to do things like, obey the law and not pump my body full of substances that may be harmful-oh wait- I forgot your Harvard medical trained ass says they're not harmful. What's that? You didn't go to Harvard medical? OHHHHH ---That makes you as trustworthy as the idiot pushing that stuff in locker rooms and the back rooms of "supplement" stores. I'm not some naive bible thumper ,neither was I born yesterday. I know how your "scene" works. As coincidence would have it, a guy at my gym has had a problem with homemade d-bol within the last month .
The bottom line is , you and I disagree. You'll never change my mind and vice -versa. If you want, we can continue this thread till we're old and grey. Here's the thing, as far as I know, gear is illegal in North America, no matter how "simple" and "safe" you claim it is to home make it. I'm sure there is a crack dealer somewhere reassuring his clients that his drug was "simple and safe", and "made with care"...MADE WITH CARE??????? WTF????
The government could make alot of money by legalizing steroids---which will never happen because they are considered dangerous. Get it? They're illegal for a reason. They used to be legal, and then were banned- hey they still are legal in Mexico, if you'd like to move there ...
In case you need more insight or reasons as to why I have no tolerance for --I'll say it again--ILLEGAL steroids , here are a couple.
1-KIDS READ THESE POSTS. I've lost track of the number of 16 yr olds in my teeny little gym who have used steroids, and most of them have had some of the visible side effects I have mentioned. What message are you sending them? I feel, as misguided as you may feel it is, that even one child, person- whatever- having problems linked to steroid use is one too much.

2-I HAVE A SON. Take a look at my profile pic, I'm not far off of you. I can count on one hand the amount of supplements I have bought in my life. Before you go on about genetics, it took me years to figure out how to put on nearly 65 lbs of natural muscle. I did it the hard way , and loved every minute of it. So much so , that I hope to pass that love on to my son. I CRINGE at the thought of him having to mingle with some one like you in the gym. Luckily, I will impart him with the knowledge and self confidence to know better...

[KarateChris]

To the above poster, do you by any chance drink alcohol or smoke?

EDIT: I'm really just trying to make a point that just because something is LEGAL doesn't make it ridiculously unhealthy (and vice versa).

[rschuh]

Did not know that. What's the reason for using Deca?

They don't use it anymore. It used to be used to increase Red Blood Cell production, but since EPO came onto the market, they use it now. When I started in dialysis back in 1991, all the old ladies had beards from using Deca! :-)

[rschuh]

You're right. I don't know what the **** I'm talking about. I MUST HAVE MADE UP ALL THOSE NASTY SIDE EFFECTS , RIGHT? I'm not in the practice of looking at other bb'ers nuts, so I can't prove they are shrunken. They shave all their body hair, so unless I sneak into their house and check their shower drains, I'll never be able to prove that either. "Bacne" is a proven, documented side effect of steroid-you call it "abuse", I'll call "use". I'm no cop or lawyer, but ANY use of a banned substance is legally considered abuse. As for bitch tits ,look at -just to name one- Johnnie Jackson. Probably, a great guy, strong as hell , dedicated and hard working. But even Flex magazine singled him out as having bitch tits.

I'm proud to not "know what I'm talking about" when it comes to homemade steroids, thanks anyways. I sincerely hope that was not your best comeback.
I must be an idiot to do things like, obey the law and not pump my body full of substances that may be harmful-oh wait- I forgot your Harvard medical trained ass says they're not harmful. What's that? You didn't go to Harvard medical? OHHHHH ---That makes you as trustworthy as the idiot pushing that stuff in locker rooms and the back rooms of "supplement" stores. I'm not some naive bible thumper ,neither was I born yesterday. I know how your "scene" works. As coincidence would have it, a guy at my gym has had a problem with homemade d-bol within the last month .
The bottom line is , you and I disagree. You'll never change my mind and vice -versa. If you want, we can continue this thread till we're old and grey. Here's the thing, as far as I know, gear is illegal in North America, no matter how "simple" and "safe" you claim it is to home make it. I'm sure there is a crack dealer somewhere reassuring his clients that his drug was "simple and safe", and "made with care"...MADE WITH CARE??????? WTF????
The government could make alot of money by legalizing steroids---which will never happen because they are considered dangerous. Get it? They're illegal for a reason. They used to be legal, and then were banned- hey they still are legal in Mexico, if you'd like to move there ...
In case you need more insight or reasons as to why I have no tolerance for --I'll say it again--ILLEGAL steroids , here are a couple.
1-KIDS READ THESE POSTS. I've lost track of the number of 16 yr olds in my teeny little gym who have used steroids, and most of them have had some of the visible side effects I have mentioned. What message are you sending them? I feel, as misguided as you may feel it is, that even one child, person- whatever- having problems linked to steroid use is one too much.

2-I HAVE A SON. Take a look at my profile pic, I'm not far off of you. I can count on one hand the amount of supplements I have bought in my life. Before you go on about genetics, it took me years to figure out how to put on nearly 65 lbs of natural muscle. I did it the hard way , and loved every minute of it. So much so , that I hope to pass that love on to my son. I CRINGE at the thought of him having to mingle with some one like you in the gym. Luckily, I will impart him with the knowledge and self confidence to know better...

Do you REALLY think that because the "government" says something is legal or illegal that it has ANYTHING to do with it's negative side effects? You need to take off the rose colored glasses. I also suggest that you educate yourself on topics like this in the future because your parroting of the media just shows your lack of thought.

[hiramabiff100]

The government does err often, on that at least, we can agree. The problem is they most often err in the opposite direction. They allow the FDA to legalize medication which have led to thousands of heart attacks and other medical issues. They legalize tobacco even though they know it has severe long term effects. I can not for the life of me figure out why they would demonize steroids, if THEY were safe. Perhaps you could explain to me the reason they are "conspiring" to keep these "perfectly safe" substances from the masses? I mean considering their previous track record...
I have been working out long enough to have seen several people experience problems with steroids first hand. Simply because I have not tried them myself does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I've never shoved my hand in a fire , or chopped off one of my fingers with a butcher knife, but I KNOW these are bad things, because I have been told so. Is that a result of media misinformation or brainwashing?(The way things are going, I can only imagine that would be your next argument). I do not "parrot" the media, because frankly, I have NEVER seen one story on T.V regarding steroids. I know most of the major news shows have had some, but I have never personally seen one.
To the gentleman who inquired about my personal habits, I do not smoke and I had 2 scotches at New Year's, the end. 2 drinks does not lead to hardened arteries and enlarged organs, which 1 cycle of steroids can cause.
You think I see through rose colored glasses? At least I can see my keyboard, albeit with a rosy hue. I wonder how you can see the keyboard with your head so deeply entrenched in the proverbial sand.

[bxbombers]

You're right. I don't know what the **** I'm talking about. I MUST HAVE MADE UP ALL THOSE NASTY SIDE EFFECTS , RIGHT? I'm not in the practice of looking at other bb'ers nuts, so I can't prove they are shrunken. They shave all their body hair, so unless I sneak into their house and check their shower drains, I'll never be able to prove that either. "Bacne" is a proven, documented side effect of steroid-you call it "abuse", I'll call "use". I'm no cop or lawyer, but ANY use of a banned substance is legally considered abuse. As for bitch tits ,look at -just to name one- Johnnie Jackson. Probably, a great guy, strong as hell , dedicated and hard working. But even Flex magazine singled him out as having bitch tits.

I'm proud to not "know what I'm talking about" when it comes to homemade steroids, thanks anyways. I sincerely hope that was not your best comeback.
I must be an idiot to do things like, obey the law and not pump my body full of substances that may be harmful-oh wait- I forgot your Harvard medical trained ass says they're not harmful. What's that? You didn't go to Harvard medical? OHHHHH ---That makes you as trustworthy as the idiot pushing that stuff in locker rooms and the back rooms of "supplement" stores. I'm not some naive bible thumper ,neither was I born yesterday. I know how your "scene" works. As coincidence would have it, a guy at my gym has had a problem with homemade d-bol within the last month .
The bottom line is , you and I disagree. You'll never change my mind and vice -versa. If you want, we can continue this thread till we're old and grey. Here's the thing, as far as I know, gear is illegal in North America, no matter how "simple" and "safe" you claim it is to home make it. I'm sure there is a crack dealer somewhere reassuring his clients that his drug was "simple and safe", and "made with care"...MADE WITH CARE??????? WTF????
The government could make alot of money by legalizing steroids---which will never happen because they are considered dangerous. Get it? They're illegal for a reason. They used to be legal, and then were banned- hey they still are legal in Mexico, if you'd like to move there ...
In case you need more insight or reasons as to why I have no tolerance for --I'll say it again--ILLEGAL steroids , here are a couple.
1-KIDS READ THESE POSTS. I've lost track of the number of 16 yr olds in my teeny little gym who have used steroids, and most of them have had some of the visible side effects I have mentioned. What message are you sending them? I feel, as misguided as you may feel it is, that even one child, person- whatever- having problems linked to steroid use is one too much.

2-I HAVE A SON. Take a look at my profile pic, I'm not far off of you. I can count on one hand the amount of supplements I have bought in my life. Before you go on about genetics, it took me years to figure out how to put on nearly 65 lbs of natural muscle. I did it the hard way , and loved every minute of it. So much so , that I hope to pass that love on to my son. I CRINGE at the thought of him having to mingle with some one like you in the gym. Luckily, I will impart him with the knowledge and self confidence to know better...

good post.. but holy **** -MELTDOWN

[alaska21]

First off, I never knew which kidney condition Flex "had." I put that in quotes because until I see proof in the form of medical records that Flex had FSGS, I'm putting that right there up with he was attacked by ninjas.

You are correct that I assumed he didn't have his BP under control. He could have been taking meds for it. Again, you're assuming that he DID have his BP under control, so since you made THAT assumption, then I thought it was fair that I make MY assumption (oh unless of course you personally know Flex... then maybe you can tell us about the ninjas).

I'm not commenting on anyone else because honestly I don't know who those guys are.

I remember reading in MD a few years back that his BP was like 210/120 at this time...there was a huge write up about his kidney problems in MD has any one seen it?

[KarateChris]

To the gentleman who inquired about my personal habits, I do not smoke and I had 2 scotches at New Year's, the end. 2 drinks does not lead to hardened arteries and enlarged organs, which 1 cycle of steroids can cause.
You think I see through rose colored glasses? At least I can see my keyboard, albeit with a rosy hue. I wonder how you can see the keyboard with your head so deeply entrenched in the proverbial sand.

Read the EDIT on my post. It was just to prove a point that just because the government legalizes certain things doesn't mean they do less harm than something illegal.

Please explain to me how ONE cycle of normal length causes PERMANENT hardened arteries and enlarged organs. Oh and don't dumb it down for me since you obviously know so much. I'm pretty sure I can handle the details. And I would BEG to differ that those 2 scotches didn't cause some MINOR NONPERMANENT liver damage (I promise you if you would have taken your liver enzymes the next day, they would have been elevated from the drinking the night before).

I'm not disagreeing that steroids can cause significant harm. I just don't like the argument that they're illegal so they must be bad when alcohol and cigarettes are legal.

[hiramabiff100]

I actually did see that article. There's another article I read years ago (right after Flex's transplant)in the Montreal Gazette, where he stated roids had more than a little to do with his health problems. Unfortunately, I did not have the foresight to clip these articles ,scan them and save them in my hard drive for future discussions in these forums. Sadly bro, without them, you and I will come just short of being accused of making this stuff up it seems....

[chan_ho_nam]

You're right. I don't know what the **** I'm talking about. I MUST HAVE MADE UP ALL THOSE NASTY SIDE EFFECTS , RIGHT? I'm not in the practice of looking at other bb'ers nuts, so I can't prove they are shrunken. They shave all their body hair, so unless I sneak into their house and check their shower drains, I'll never be able to prove that either. "Bacne" is a proven, documented side effect of steroid-you call it "abuse", I'll call "use". I'm no cop or lawyer, but ANY use of a banned substance is legally considered abuse. As for bitch tits ,look at -just to name one- Johnnie Jackson. Probably, a great guy, strong as hell , dedicated and hard working. But even Flex magazine singled him out as having bitch tits. I'm proud to not "know what I'm talking about" when it comes to homemade steroids, thanks anyways. I sincerely hope that was not your best comeback.
I must be an idiot to do things like, obey the law and not pump my body full of substances that may be harmful-oh wait- I forgot your Harvard medical trained ass says they're not harmful. What's that? You didn't go to Harvard medical? OHHHHH ---That makes you as trustworthy as the idiot pushing that stuff in locker rooms and the back rooms of "supplement" stores.

Sarcastic self-depreciating comments don't lend any credibility to your arguments.

You clearly made statements you can't prove, you say they grow hair on their foreheads, then you say they probably shave that hair off, and that is why it doesn't show up. Well, you just made TWO statements you can't prove. Are they plausible? Probably, but the bottom line is you still can't prove either of YOUR statements.

Don't hide behind the terms legal or illegal when trying to define what use and abuse are, many medications are prescribed "off-label" like asiprin for high blood pressure, would you then call that abuse? How about Marijuana? Its illegal in the states but legal in Amsterdam, are you saying abuse is a matter is simple matter of crossing a border? No, no one would define it that way, you're logic is flawed and poorly thought out.

Again you're sterotyping me, what makes you think I "push" steroids in "locker" rooms? Do you know me? No, you don't. Your own government came out with a study saying the average steroid user is actually upper-middle class white collar men. What does that tell you?

Here's the thing, as far as I know, gear is illegal in North America, no matter how "simple" and "safe" you claim it is to home make it. I'm sure there is a crack dealer somewhere reassuring his clients that his drug was "simple and safe", and "made with care"...MADE WITH CARE??????? WTF????

What does being legal or illegal have to do with how simple a process it is for me to make sterile gear? Thats two uncomparable topics. The sterility of home made gear vs. what is legal and illegal in the USA, two COMPLETELY different topics.

Now you're comparing me to a crack dealer? You have no founding to make that assertion, when you stop pulling arbitrary facts out of your rear to save yourself, then maybe people will stop and listen. You're language is pretty rough too, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

I'm not some naive bible thumper ,neither was I born yesterday. I know how your "scene" works. As coincidence would have it, a guy at my gym has had a problem with homemade d-bol within the last month .

I'm sorry, a "guy" are your gym had problems with "his" home made dbols, and suddenly you "know" how my scene works? Thats pretty delusional of you to assert.

The government could make alot of money by legalizing steroids---which will never happen because they are considered dangerous. Get it? They're illegal for a reason. They used to be legal, and then were banned- hey they still are legal in Mexico, if you'd like to move there ...

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I just don't like your attitude, so I'll continue to respond to you half sensical ramblings. Did you know the FDA and the American Medical Association were OPPOSED to banning steroid? The reason YOUR government has banned them is to try and clean up professional sports. It has nothing to do with protecting the public or making "tax" dollars.

Steroids are also legal in many Eastern European countries, the UK, Asian countries and as you said Mexico. Why the differing opinions on legality? Ask yourself that.

In case you need more insight or reasons as to why I have no tolerance for --I'll say it again--ILLEGAL steroids , here are a couple.
1-KIDS READ THESE POSTS. I've lost track of the number of 16 yr olds in my teeny little gym who have used steroids, and most of them have had some of the visible side effects I have mentioned. What message are you sending them? I feel, as misguided as you may feel it is, that even one child, person- whatever- having problems linked to steroid use is one too much.

Don't hide behind the old "its for the kids" routine, first of all they are going to get steroids despite what I or you say. They will smoke and drink underages DESPITE what their parents do, so resting that responsibility on my shoulders is illogical. I post mainly in the steroid section, and its 21 and over, ONLY. Its not my problem if THEY CHOOSE to read the information themselves, at least we've put the CORRECT information out there.

2-I HAVE A SON. Take a look at my profile pic, I'm not far off of you. I can count on one hand the amount of supplements I have bought in my life. Before you go on about genetics, it took me years to figure out how to put on nearly 65 lbs of natural muscle. I did it the hard way , and loved every minute of it. So much so , that I hope to pass that love on to my son. I CRINGE at the thought of him having to mingle with some one like you in the gym. Luckily, I will impart him with the knowledge and self confidence to know better...

Someone like me? You don't even know me. Of the two of us the one with the foul mouth is YOU, the one with a raving tone like someone with roid rage ironically again, is YOU. Think about that.

What I do to my body is MY choice, you get that? There is no law in Canada about possession of steroids. What I'm doing is LEGAL up here, so you lost that front as well.

You need to get off your high horse and stop hiding behind "the kids" and your son, talk to me man to man, fact to fact. Then maybe you'll start sounding like some one credible.

[ShortMonster]

The government does err often, on that at least, we can agree. The problem is they most often err in the opposite direction. They allow the FDA to legalize medication which have led to thousands of heart attacks and other medical issues. They legalize tobacco even though they know it has severe long term effects. I can not for the life of me figure out why they would demonize steroids, if THEY were safe. Perhaps you could explain to me the reason they are "conspiring" to keep these "perfectly safe" substances from the masses? I mean considering their previous track record...
I have been working out long enough to have seen several people experience problems with steroids first hand. Simply because I have not tried them myself does not mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I've never shoved my hand in a fire , or chopped off one of my fingers with a butcher knife, but I KNOW these are bad things, because I have been told so. Is that a result of media misinformation or brainwashing?(The way things are going, I can only imagine that would be your next argument). I do not "parrot" the media, because frankly, I have NEVER seen one story on T.V regarding steroids. I know most of the major news shows have had some, but I have never personally seen one.
To the gentleman who inquired about my personal habits, I do not smoke and I had 2 scotches at New Year's, the end. 2 drinks does not lead to hardened arteries and enlarged organs, which 1 cycle of steroids can cause.
You think I see through rose colored glasses? At least I can see my keyboard, albeit with a rosy hue. I wonder how you can see the keyboard with your head so deeply entrenched in the proverbial sand.

You are stupid, I dont want to waste my time or anymore second in my life to try to explane something to a one minded very stubborn individual who will only listen to one side of the story.

[_Bladen_]

You're right. I don't know what the **** I'm talking about. I MUST HAVE MADE UP ALL THOSE NASTY SIDE EFFECTS , RIGHT? I'm not in the practice of looking at other bb'ers nuts, so I can't prove they are shrunken. They shave all their body hair, so unless I sneak into their house and check their shower drains, I'll never be able to prove that either. "Bacne" is a proven, documented side effect of steroid-you call it "abuse", I'll call "use". I'm no cop or lawyer, but ANY use of a banned substance is legally considered abuse. As for bitch tits ,look at -just to name one- Johnnie Jackson. Probably, a great guy, strong as hell , dedicated and hard working. But even Flex magazine singled him out as having bitch tits.

I'm proud to not "know what I'm talking about" when it comes to homemade steroids, thanks anyways. I sincerely hope that was not your best comeback.
I must be an idiot to do things like, obey the law and not pump my body full of substances that may be harmful-oh wait- I forgot your Harvard medical trained ass says they're not harmful. What's that? You didn't go to Harvard medical? OHHHHH ---That makes you as trustworthy as the idiot pushing that stuff in locker rooms and the back rooms of "supplement" stores. I'm not some naive bible thumper ,neither was I born yesterday. I know how your "scene" works. As coincidence would have it, a guy at my gym has had a problem with homemade d-bol within the last month .
The bottom line is , you and I disagree. You'll never change my mind and vice -versa. If you want, we can continue this thread till we're old and grey. Here's the thing, as far as I know, gear is illegal in North America, no matter how "simple" and "safe" you claim it is to home make it. I'm sure there is a crack dealer somewhere reassuring his clients that his drug was "simple and safe", and "made with care"...MADE WITH CARE??????? WTF????
The government could make alot of money by legalizing steroids---which will never happen because they are considered dangerous. Get it? They're illegal for a reason. They used to be legal, and then were banned- hey they still are legal in Mexico, if you'd like to move there ...
In case you need more insight or reasons as to why I have no tolerance for --I'll say it again--ILLEGAL steroids , here are a couple.
1-KIDS READ THESE POSTS. I've lost track of the number of 16 yr olds in my teeny little gym who have used steroids, and most of them have had some of the visible side effects I have mentioned. What message are you sending them? I feel, as misguided as you may feel it is, that even one child, person- whatever- having problems linked to steroid use is one too much.

2-I HAVE A SON. Take a look at my profile pic, I'm not far off of you. I can count on one hand the amount of supplements I have bought in my life. Before you go on about genetics, it took me years to figure out how to put on nearly 65 lbs of natural muscle. I did it the hard way , and loved every minute of it. So much so , that I hope to pass that love on to my son. I CRINGE at the thought of him having to mingle with some one like you in the gym. Luckily, I will impart him with the knowledge and self confidence to know better...

?I'm not in the practice of looking at other bb'ers nuts?

Big deal small testicles? Whoopty frickin doo. So I am going to assume your talking about the possibility of infertility, as you weren?t very clear in your incomprehensible mutterings. Infertility caused by AAS can be REVERSED through clomid, HCG, and HMG treatment. Infertility caused by anabolics is EXTREMELY rare.


?Bacne" is a proven?

Once again? Big deal? Some acne? Who really cares?


?As for bitch tits ,look at -just to name one- Johnnie Jackson?


Contest time he DOES not have any signs of gyno, thus no breast deposits have formed. He is sensitive to estrogen and in the offseason they puff up slightly. Once again? Big deal? So anabolics should be illegal because people get puffy nipples on occasion?

?not pump my body full of substances that may be harmful?


Perhaps you should subscribe to the NEJM? They state that anabolics have NO serious side effects other than changes to cholesterol. Wait? DOCTORS and ENDOCRINOLOGISTS stating there are NO serious side effects that cannot be controlled!!!! OR maybe there study stating individuals on HRT live an average of 8-12 years longer than there male counterparts???


?The government could make alot of money by legalizing steroids?

Guess what? Lobbyists for pharmaceutical companies brought in over 120 MILLION dollars last year. Guess where that money goes? Taking your politicians on vacations and buying them new houses as gifts? The pharma companies have much more to gain.

[5x10]

whats cheaper to do for the avg joe

1. do a cycle of roids, work out and transform your body
or
2. get plastic surgery done

im not sure of the exact #s, but the group that lobbied congress to make roids illegal was made up of aprox 70% plastic surgeons

[Jaydigs1122]

I actually did see that article. There's another article I read years ago (right after Flex's transplant)in the Montreal Gazette, where he stated roids had more than a little to do with his health problems. Unfortunately, I did not have the foresight to clip these articles ,scan them and save them in my hard drive for future discussions in these forums. Sadly bro, without them, you and I will come just short of being accused of making this stuff up it seems....

Honestly. I could go down two roads here. I could go back and pick everyone of your arguements apart and make your head spin off or I can just tell you what I think of guys like you.


Guys like you make me sick. You say you have never seen anything "media " about steriods and that is a crock. Everyone has been subject to the media and their hype of steriod abuse. You have never heard anything about Barry Bonds and him taking steriods? Ok, so now you are wrong because you have been, in some way, influenced by the media.

Your arguement is terrible. You are talking to guys that have spent years of their lives testing and researching these compounds ( most of them ; done safely ). But here you come with " A guy " at the gym " told " me crap. Guess what? Maybe "that guy" is an idiot. You are not talking to idiots here friend and the mere fact that you believe half of what you just wrote is enough for me to figure you out.

You have put your foot in your mouth only to show just how comical a person you really are. Incongruity is written all over your post's backed with no validity. I hope other's on this forum all have had the chance to witness how you have conducted yourself. Your opinion's and your logic are clouded with ignorant post's and a precarious thought proccess.

You sir should really just STFU

[rschuh]

I actually did see that article. There's another article I read years ago (right after Flex's transplant)in the Montreal Gazette, where he stated roids had more than a little to do with his health problems. Unfortunately, I did not have the foresight to clip these articles ,scan them and save them in my hard drive for future discussions in these forums. Sadly bro, without them, you and I will come just short of being accused of making this stuff up it seems....

Let's see,
I've talked to Flex on the telephone and exchanged numerous e mails with him. I also had FSGS. Anabolic steroids can not cause FSGS. Neither mine nor Flex's kidney disease had anything to do with using anabolic steroids and our MDs agree. Why do you think you know more?

[rschuh]

whats cheaper to do for the avg joe

1. do a cycle of roids, work out and transform your body
or
2. get plastic surgery done

im not sure of the exact #s, but the group that lobbied congress to make roids illegal was made up of aprox 70% plastic surgeons

What people still have to realize is that while anyone can take a cycle etc., you still have to work your ass off, eat well and have good genetics. Just taking drugs means nothing. These dolts who think that anyone can take drugs and look good crack me up.

[JOHN GARGANI]

Hiramabiff is now in the green thanks to my reps:


ROBERT: you are to be congratulated on your profile picture, excellent development at your age, and a credit to add that much muscle naturally.

Whether you do it natural or 'aided' , as was pointed out already, a lot of hard work goes into building a great physique.....


I don't understand the belligerence on the part of many of the posters in this thread; Can't things be discussed where other people's feelings or opinions are respected???

[hiramabiff100]

Sarcastic self-depreciating comments don't lend any credibility to your arguments.

You clearly made statements you can't prove, you say they grow hair on their foreheads, then you say they probably shave that hair off, and that is why it doesn't show up. Well, you just made TWO statements you can't prove. Are they plausible? Probably, but the bottom line is you still can't prove either of YOUR statements.

Of all the side effects mentioned, you chose that one to single out? Why no rebuttal vis a vis the other symptoms? Clearly I was making a reference, in jest, to a common symptom of some steroids, namely increased hair growth. Now that we have that cleared up, would you prefer to argue that there is no proof substantiating that side effect also? If so, what form of proof would you require from me?
Perhaps my tone appears sarcastic by times, I was not actually accusing steroids of growing hair specifically out of region between the eyes and the hairline. Again the argument is that some steroids cause noticeably increased hair growth. Unless you can prove otherwise, I do not think I lost that argument.

Don't hide behind the terms legal or illegal when trying to define what use and abuse are, many medications are prescribed "off-label" like asiprin for high blood pressure, would you then call that abuse?

Until I see someone cooking up homemade aspirin, I'll take a pass on that.
How do we measure abuse, if not in legal terms? is 200 mils of a substance abuse ? 300 ? 400 ..500?..Stop me when I hit the magic abuse number.

Wait we're not done .Once we've figured out the magic dosage that is considered abuse, we now have to figure out how many cycles are considered abuse. 1 cycle? 4 cycles? 10 cycles, again inform me when we have hit the magic number that automatically qualifies as abuse...

Wait are we talking a stack? Well then we have to start all over, because now there is 2 (or more ) drugs involved and we have to reconsider everything form the dosages ,to the length and number of cycles. Instead of merely dismissing my interpretation of what constitutes abuse, perhaps you could supply that which you seem so quick to demand from me, namely a plausible explanation of what defines abuse.

How about Marijuana? Its illegal in the states but legal in Amsterdam, are you saying abuse is a matter is simple matter of crossing a border?

Abuse IS DEFENITELY a matter of crossing borders. You ask me to ponder why the difference in legality. ? Has the fact that steroids are illegal in other countries, forced YOU to reconsider your opinion? Or is quoting other countries legal policies only relevant when attempting to prove your point? I can only imagine some of the Asian countries you are referring to might be ones with no human rights policies in place? If I?m wrong please specify which Asian countries allow the use or possession of anabolic steroids. If inside their borders, they allow someone to work an entire week for 30 cents, should that make me reconsider whether my country should adopt these same laws? If another country allows something, that does not make it right, or even worth pondering the difference in legality.

No, no one would define it that way, you're logic is flawed and poorly thought out.

You want flawed logic? Not one shred of proof or logic. That statement is entirely comprised of your opinion. How do you know no one would define it that way?Apparently the U.S and Canadian governments seem to define it that way. "No one" ? Have you conducted a study? ? Perhaps you could ease back on your criticisms of my statements containing no proof until you yourself adhere by the same strict posting standards you ask of me.

Again you're sterotyping me, what makes you think I "push" steroids in "locker" rooms? Do you know me? No, you don't. Your own government came out with a study saying the average steroid user is actually upper-middle class white collar men. What does that tell you?

I simply stated that most people would purchase their steroids in these locations. If not these locations, then where? The bank? The laundrymat? No mention of YOU pushing them there. As for studies, have you seen or heard of the newest studies the U.S conducted? You know the one that states that steroid "use" is rising at an alarming rate in American (and therefore probably Canadian) high schools. That just over 20 % of high school girls ADMIT to using steroids. How many do not admit? What does that, in turn, tell you?


[

I'm sorry, a "guy" are your gym had problems with "his" home made dbols, and suddenly you "know" how my scene works? Thats pretty delusional of you to assert.

Clearly now you are reaching in an attempt to pick apart anything I continue to post. Read that again. I merely stated , BY COINCIDENCE , that 1 person I knew, I don't know if other people were affected from the same batch of home brewed, has experienced problems with homemade d-bols recently. I have seen other instances in the past.BTW, the gentleman in question purchased the gear from someone who has been making it for years. It happens.I keep them anonymous, because I would not post their names without permission. By the same token, until you provide me with a detailed list of names , dates, instances, backed by concrete legal documents or videographic evidence, should I assume everything you tell me is a lie?

Don't hide behind the old "its for the kids" routine, first of all they are going to get steroids despite what I or you say. They will smoke and drink underages DESPITE what their parents do, so resting that responsibility on my shoulders is illogical. I post mainly in the steroid section, and its 21 and over, ONLY. Its not my problem if THEY CHOOSE to read the information themselves, at least we've put the CORRECT information out there

It's not "hiding behind" if it's true.You like to accuse me of that, don't you? Kind of hypocritical of someone with no information on their page..... Children are a product of their environment. Children who have smoking parents are twice as likely to smoke themselves. Drop a child on a deserted island from birth to age 30, I doubt he will feel the need to smoke , drink or take steroids. And here you begin to participate in practice you ,have stated repeatedly, that you find reprehensible on my part, namely generalization. "Kids" is a pretty all encompassing term. It's not right to stereotype steroid users, but kids in general is O.K. Again, I'm not resting the entire responsibility on your shoulders. Should I point out that these substances you have introduced in to the conversation have regulations in place to attempt the control the age of consumption? Which steroids do not. What section (and it's age restriction) that you "mainly" post in is not relevant here, as this is a forum without age restriction. As for the "correct information" you have pointed out, I have looked at your homepage and can see many posts of you asking for advice regarding steroids. But you claim to have the correct advice. How would a new user to steroids be able to seperate the correct advice from the flawed advice in that forum? Or is all the information posted in the steroid section correct?

Someone like me? You don't even know me. Of the two of us the one with the foul mouth is YOU, the one with a raving tone like someone with roid rage ironically again, is YOU. Think about that.
What I do to my body is MY choice, you get that? There is no law in Canada about possession of steroids. What I'm doing is LEGAL up here, so you lost that front as well.
You need to get off your high horse and stop hiding behind "the kids" and your son, talk to me man to man, fact to fact. Then maybe you'll start
sounding like some one credible.

Roid rage .. Thank you. That's one rosy side effect that I forgot to mention. It's one of the worst ones ,too. And guess where it is most prevalent ? In Teens....
Legal up here? Where would "here" be? I see no information on your page regarding a location. I see no distinguishing info whatsoever.
And please educate me , without sarcasm here, are all the substances needed to manufacture steroids legal to purchase, in large quantities, with the express purpose of manufacturing anabolics? Honestly , I am asking because I admit to not knowing.
Hiding behind my son? Who is hiding? Man to man and fact to fact? How do I even know you are a man? Honestly. There is no information on your site at all. From the lone picture you have provided ,I cannot even see your face. You could be a woman or a shaved monkey for all I know. I would assume you were a man ,but you have asked me not to make any assumptions or presumptions. What are YOU hiding from? Is it because everything you are doing is "legal". Don't be so quick to call me a coward, the manliest thing I know would be to take responsibility for my son. As for your fact to fact bit. you seem to be more interested in merely informing me I am wrong , in all aspects of my posts than providing me with facts. I have respect for the other posters who disagree with me, because some of them have actually suggested where to find positive info on steroids instead of merely calling me an emasculated coward.
Get off my high horse? I need my high horse , because unlike many, I prefer to take the high road.

[sikboy]

I recently saw a posting from this anonymous clown that stated that Flex Wheeler's kidney failure was caused by anabolic steroid abuse. Why do ill informed morons make comments like this? Did Alonzo Mourning and Sean Elliot also have FSGS from abusing anabolic steroids? No! It is ONLY the "word" of these dolt who won't even post his name. I also had FSGS and according to the best kidney specialists in the US, FSGS can NOT be caused by the use or "abuse" of anabolic steroids. BTW, Dan Duchaine's renal failure was a congenital condition. Dan was a good friend or mine. I post my real name. Robert Schuh.

Rob Schuh

rschuh@yahoo.com

Because they are fukking morons bro, they have been punished with their lack of inteligence, thats far worse than anything we could do to the idiots.

[chan_ho_nam]

Of all the side effects mentioned, you chose that one to single out? Why no rebuttal vis a vis the other symptoms?
Perhaps my tone appears sarcastic by times, I was not actually accusing steroids of growing hair specifically out of region between the eyes and the hairline. Again the argument is that some steroids cause noticeably increased hair growth. Unless you can prove otherwise, I do not think I lost that argument.

Because of all the side effects you listed, this was the one you wrote with the most absurd statement, thus making it the easiest target to pick at. I thought that much was obvious.

Until I see someone cooking up homemade aspirin, I'll take a pass on that.
How do we measure abuse, if not in legal terms? is 200 mils of a substance abuse ? 300 ? 400 ..500?..Stop me when I hit the magic abuse number.

Wait are we talking a stack? Well then we have to start all over, because now there is 2 (or more ) drugs involved and we have to reconsider everything form the dosages ,to the length and number of cycles. Instead of merely dismissing my interpretation of what constitutes abuse, perhaps you could supply that which you seem so quick to demand from me, namely a plausible explanation of what defines abuse.

Your government has stated that 1/2 a CC or 1 tablet = 1 dosage, and thus open to felony charges. So by your definition that would be abuse correct? What about those people on HRT or aids and cancer patients being treated with steroids, they are taking far more than 1cc or 1 tablet of steroids, but of course as you say, they're not abusing because what they are doing is legal right? Your logic is so flawed is mind boggling. How could the same dosage or less be used by 2 different people, be called abuse when used by one, and normal when used by the other, simply because of legality. You're smarter than that...even you can see the false logic in THAT being a true indicator of abuse.

Abuse IS DEFENITELY a matter of crossing borders. You ask me to ponder why the difference in legality. ? Has the fact that steroids are illegal in other countries, forced YOU to reconsider your opinion? Or is quoting other countries legal policies only relevant when attempting to prove your point? I can only imagine some of the Asian countries you are referring to might be ones with no human rights policies in place? If I?m wrong please specify which Asian countries allow the use or possession of anabolic steroids. If inside their borders, they allow someone to work an entire week for 30 cents, should that make me reconsider whether my country should adopt these same laws? If another country allows something, that does not make it right, or even worth pondering the difference in legality.

I asked you to "ponder" the differing opinions, because quite frankly they ARE differing and quite interesting to think about. You conveniently take a cheap shot at China's human rights policies to back your assertion that they are a shady country, thus the reasoning behind why steroids are legal there. But why are you ignoring the Eastern European countries like Poland, Russia or even as I said before, the UK. Actually...especially the UK, why did you skip them over?

I simply stated that most people would purchase their steroids in these locations. If not these locations, then where? The bank? The laundrymat? No mention of YOU pushing them there. As for studies, have you seen or heard of the newest studies the U.S conducted? You know the one that states that steroid "use" is rising at an alarming rate in American (and therefore probably Canadian) high schools. That just over 20 % of high school girls ADMIT to using steroids. How many do not admit? What does that, in turn, tell you?

By your own logic, how do you know they purchase steroids in these places, have you conducted a study? Do you know a marginally acceptable amount of steroid users to make a sweeping generalization?

Do you actually believe 20% of high school girls use steroids? PLEASE don't insult my intelligience. Its been talked about before, but I bet those girls don't know the difference between steroids and corticosteroids which doctors will administer regularly. That study did not define the mode in which they conducted the study. They did not list the questions used, and did not define to those asked what steroids really are. There are a ton of people in and out of the gym that think CREATINE is some sort of steroid.

Clearly now you are reaching in an attempt to pick apart anything I continue to post. Read that again. I merely stated , BY COINCIDENCE , that 1 person I knew, I don't know if other people were affected from the same batch of home brewed, has experienced problems with homemade d-bols recently. I have seen other instances in the past.BTW, the gentleman in question purchased the gear from someone who has been making it for years.

Are you kidding me? From your tone and your wording you clearly attempted to compare and link me to a steroid dealer and later on a crack dealer, don't back peddle, its there in plain english. You openly stated you "knew" how my "scene" works, yet you've shown not an ounce of knowledge to indicate so, thus its very easy for me to assume you know nothing.

Roid rage .. Thank you. That's one rosy side effect that I forgot to mention. It's one of the worst ones ,too. And guess where it is most prevalent ? In Teens....

Really? Pubmed doesn't have a single article, paper or trial that links or even mentions roid rage in their studies of steroids. Where is your proof? Anecdotal evidence? Please. Teens are angry with or without steroids, that is fact. Its assertions like these that make confirm you're a product of the media's stance and disinformation about steroids, and that you have no actual knowledge of what you speak.

Hiding behind my son? Who is hiding? Man to man and fact to fact? How do I even know you are a man? Honestly. There is no information on your site at all. From the lone picture you have provided ,I cannot even see your face. You could be a woman or a shaved monkey for all I know.

Wow, this is what you're resorting to? Childish. When you bring your son into an arguement that concerns only your opinion and mine, its called hiding.

I would assume you were a man ,but you have asked me not to make any assumptions or presumptions.

I did this when?

What are YOU hiding from? Is it because everything you are doing is "legal". Don't be so quick to call me a coward, the manliest thing I know would be to take responsibility for my son.

Surely you jest. At least I put up a picture, how many members here don't? Why don't you rag on them too? Stop grasping at straws, I'm sure you'd love to read my profile and see what else you can insult me with. Grow up.

How are you taking responsibility for your son by responding to my replies on forum? Don't give me some far reaching statement, literally, explain to me how its taking responsibility?

As for your fact to fact bit. you seem to be more interested in merely informing me I am wrong , in all aspects of my posts than providing me with facts.

Thats because you make it too easy for me to tell you you're wrong, and I HAVE provided facts. Where is your rebuttal about the American Medical Association and the FDA being opposed to the banning of steroids? Or how about this one, 70% of the lobbyists who pushed for washington to ban steroids were plastic surgeons, thats an interesting bit of information isn't it. Wonder what their motives were.

I have respect for the other posters who disagree with me, because some of them have actually suggested where to find positive info on steroids instead of merely calling me an emasculated coward.

I would have remembered if I called you an "emasculated" coward...

Get off my high horse? I need my high horse , because unlike many, I prefer to take the high road.

That much is obvious, even when you know you're wrong.

[chan_ho_nam]

You want more proof?

Real Sports did a story on steroids. Eye opening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0LEj8IPHGU

[LukeWitte]

I recently saw a posting from this anonymous clown that stated that Flex Wheeler's kidney failure was caused by anabolic steroid abuse. Why do ill informed morons make comments like this? Did Alonzo Mourning and Sean Elliot also have FSGS from abusing anabolic steroids? No! It is ONLY the "word" of these dolt who won't even post his name. I also had FSGS and according to the best kidney specialists in the US, FSGS can NOT be caused by the use or "abuse" of anabolic steroids. BTW, Dan Duchaine's renal failure was a congenital condition. Dan was a good friend or mine. I post my real name. Robert Schuh.

Rob Schuh

rschuh@yahoo.com

14 years later, and still as unintentionally hilarious.

[WWE-TicK]

wow ... strong thread bump.

Who would've known that 14 years later, Flex would have his leg amputated. That guy seriously can't catch a break. I sincerely hope that's the last of his health problems.