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  1. #1
    Registered User Arizona45's Avatar
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    Where do I go from here?

    Have gotten back into exercising after about four years of being sedentary. 5'11" and 183 pounds at the moment. Body fat is a bit over 20%. I am striving for total body fitness, both muscular and cardiovascular. The picture is not great quality. My goal is to increase my overall strength, cardiopulmonary endurance, and develop a leaner and more muscular physique. However, I have reservations about losing too much weight. I surmise my body structure is between an ectomorph and mesomorph. Given my goals, what do you think my ideal weight and bf percentage should be?

    I put my goal on the site as having an "athletic" physique. The site recommends I gain 8 pounds while losing 12 percent body fat to get to 8 percent body fat. Is that even possible?

    P.S. The bulk of my bodyfat is lower abdominal fat. I am 45, not 49.
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  2. #2
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    At 5 foot tall and 183 you're looking OK bro
    Eat heavy and lift peanut butter
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    Originally Posted by akghostrider View Post
    At 5 foot tall and 183 you're looking OK bro
    I just got back into lifting, running and cycling. Have been doing 60 minutes cardio and 2 hours lifting five days per week. I figure if I go down to 165 or 170 I should be able to drop below 15% bodyfat and run faster and farther. I guess since I have no intention of being competitive, though, I am struggling to justify the weight loss. Maybe I should just stay at my current weight. I don't want to get bigger. At my age added weight becomes a health risk.
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    Weak and foolish OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Take a read of the extended description of this book, sounds like you're on the same wavelength with your goals/attitude

    https://www.amazon.com/Tactical-Barb.../dp/B0143HDCWS

    This (what the book is saying) seems to fit with my own very limited experience. At first you can do everything and improve everything at the same time but as you progress that gets really tough. However if you go for a period of pushing the strength and maintaining the fitness then swap to a period of maintaining the strength and pushing the fitness (alternate between the two) it seems to work better. The book has a more structured and intelligent approach to what I just described. Anyway, hope this is some help. Enjoy...
    Faith in Jesus first and faith in squats second.
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    Firstly, no such thing as ectomorphs or mesomorphs. Yes you can lower body fat and gain muscle, it just a very long road. A traditional strength program and some light cardiovascular works well.
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    Firstly, no such thing as ectomorphs or mesomorphs. Yes you can lower body fat and gain muscle, it just a very long road. A traditional strength program and some light cardiovascular works well.
    Where did you read that Dru, i have found that myself and many others fit those 3 categories?
    Ecto, Meso, Endo
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Where did you read that Dru, i have found that myself and many others fit those 3 categories?
    Ecto, Meso, Endo
    Many articles state as much as well as published studies. One I recall showed the variance between fast and slow at 300lbs as little as 500 calories a day. The reality is that while there appears to be phenotypes the truth is much more complicated. Hell, chess players burn the same amount of calories as joggers. Hormones, behaviors etc all play a part in physical outcomes. As a lifelong "Ecto" I could have simply believed I'd never gain muscle. Thing is I just underate and undertrained. My profile is unique to me. Chronic fidgeter, busy body with a demanding mental job. High dht, low t, good lipid profile. I eat 3k a day, if you add beer calories, I average 4k per day. Sitting at 193 around 13%. Its not a brag as I should be well past where I am for 10 years of lifting. All that to say the oversimplification does anyone who subscribes a great disservice. Each person has to figure it out for themselves.
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  8. #8
    Registered User Arizona45's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Arizona45 View Post
    Have gotten back into exercising after about four years of being sedentary. 5'11" and 183 pounds at the moment. Body fat is a bit over 20%. I am striving for total body fitness, both muscular and cardiovascular. The picture is not great quality. My goal is to increase my overall strength, cardiopulmonary endurance, and develop a leaner and more muscular physique. However, I have reservations about losing too much weight. I surmise my body structure is between an ectomorph and mesomorph. Given my goals, what do you think my ideal weight and bf percentage should be?

    I put my goal on the site as having an "athletic" physique. The site recommends I gain 8 pounds while losing 12 percent body fat to get to 8 percent body fat. Is that even possible?

    P.S. The bulk of my bodyfat is lower abdominal fat. I am 45, not 49.
    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    Many articles state as much as well as published studies. One I recall showed the variance between fast and slow at 300lbs as little as 500 calories a day. The reality is that while there appears to be phenotypes the truth is much more complicated. Hell, chess players burn the same amount of calories as joggers. Hormones, behaviors etc all play a part in physical outcomes. As a lifelong "Ecto" I could have simply believed I'd never gain muscle. Thing is I just underate and undertrained. My profile is unique to me. Chronic fidgeter, busy body with a demanding mental job. High dht, low t, good lipid profile. I eat 3k a day, if you add beer calories, I average 4k per day. Sitting at 193 around 13%. Its not a brag as I should be well past where I am for 10 years of lifting. All that to say the oversimplification does anyone who subscribes a great disservice. Each person has to figure it out for themselves.
    I was 5'11" and 123 pounds through my 20s. I didn't exercise and could not have cared less about nutrition. I slowly started gaining weight around age 29 and started lifting when I was 35 but just started up again about two months ago. When I start something I tend to go pretty hard and still have a fairly fast metabolism, although it has slowed some. I have gone from 190 and am down to 182 in two months. I am about 19.8 percent body fat as of today. My goal is to get to 13 percent by June without sacrificing too much weight.
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  9. #9
    Registered User grubman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    Where did you read that Dru, i have found that myself and many others fit those 3 categories?
    Ecto, Meso, Endo
    Tons articles, but here’s the first one that popped up on google and summarizes it well enough.

    Those body types were actually invented to predict psychological characteristics...believe it or not.

    https://www.freeletics.com/en/blog/p...lassification/
    My 8 year progress video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BXudgIjg
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    Registered User grubman's Avatar
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    OP...honestly, you are overthinking and stressing. Your goals are not lofty at all...losing a little fat while getting a little healthier and looking a little better. Most people on this site have much higher aspirations, so it takes a lot of planning, dedication, effort, and “sacrifice”. To do what you want, all you need to do is some form of consistent exercise that you enjoy and to clean up your diet (eat healthier foods, cut out more crap, and eat a little less). If you just want to look better, let the mirror be the judge. If you look how you want to look, who cares if your BF% is 10 or 16, as long as it’s in a healthy range?

    Now...if you want to make a serious body transformation, and have the inner drive, determination, dedication, and guts to make that happen...then we can start talking about training programs and macronutrients.

    MHO
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by grubman View Post
    Tons articles, but here’s the first one that popped up on google and summarizes it well enough.

    Those body types were actually invented to predict psychological characteristics...believe it or not.

    https://www.freeletics.com/en/blog/p...lassification/
    Understandable. Those using the predictive models also assigned personality traits to mirror each type. It makes sense, but doesn't account for people who change somatotypes nor that there are zero appreciable personality / behavior commonalities unique to any one group.

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...40215/abstract
    http://www.mcser.org/journal/index.p...ewFile/684/712
    https://darebee.com/fitness/body-types-myth.html

    Of course you can see studies like this one.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubme...om=Somatotypes

    The problem with this kind of affirmation study is that it correlates the result not the cause.

    Meaning, successful police unit are there because they have a lifetime and training to be mesomorphs.

    The issue as I see it is specificity isn't necessarily born, but often made. Were those police unit members born out bench pressing their peers? Maybe, but probably not.
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    Originally Posted by grubman View Post
    OP...honestly, you are overthinking and stressing. Your goals are not lofty at all...losing a little fat while getting a little healthier and looking a little better. Most people on this site have much higher aspirations, so it takes a lot of planning, dedication, effort, and “sacrifice”. To do what you want, all you need to do is some form of consistent exercise that you enjoy and to clean up your diet (eat healthier foods, cut out more crap, and eat a little less). If you just want to look better, let the mirror be the judge. If you look how you want to look, who cares if your BF% is 10 or 16, as long as it’s in a healthy range?

    Now...if you want to make a serious body transformation, and have the inner drive, determination, dedication, and guts to make that happen...then we can start talking about training programs and macronutrients.

    MHO
    Thanks for the input. Although your advice is simple it is effective and practical. I don't truly have lofty goals. I just want to lose some fat and gain some muscle. I don't want to be a bodybuilder. I think I would have a better shirtless aesthetic if I could get to at least 15% bodyfat without losing too much weight. I look good in clothes at 20% BF because much of my bodyfat is lower abdominal fat that can be easily concealed, especially since I have a big chest for my frame.
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    Originally Posted by Arizona45 View Post
    Thanks for the input. Although your advice is simple it is effective and practical. I don't truly have lofty goals. I just want to lose some fat and gain some muscle. I don't want to be a bodybuilder. I think I would have a better shirtless aesthetic if I could get to at least 15% bodyfat without losing too much weight. I look good in clothes at 20% BF because much of my bodyfat is lower abdominal fat that can be easily concealed, especially since I have a big chest for my frame.
    You could spend rest of your life training like a bodybuilder and without drugs will never reach 200 lbs at sub 10 body fat. Not being negative, just its really hard to pack on muscle at our age. It's a slow grind and if you train as you mentioned you'll be frustrated.
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    Yes with Dru on the endo meso, ecto thing.

    Made not born.

    Me at 18yo. Barely 140lb. Am I an ecto?


    Me 3 years later and 50 lbs heavier (yes natural). Did I suddenly transform into meso?



    No, I just under ate and never trained prior. I am lucky to have found that I have a good response to training, but if I had never trained, would I have just been an ecto skinny fat adult? Probably. I am the smallest of my family and was always the runt of the litter so to speak. But the underlying genes were still there, just waiting to be expressed.

    You never know what you are until you provide the stimulus and eat properly. I have helped MANY people over the years who cliam they "cant gain weight" or "cant lose weight". People just dont understand there are very simple things that govern this. We are not snowflakes each with their own rules. True that nature is a bell curve and we all lie at different points on what our response can be, but we ALL can be a heck of a lot better than we are in an untrained state.
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    You could spend rest of your life training like a bodybuilder and without drugs will never reach 200 lbs at sub 10 body fat. Not being negative, just its really hard to pack on muscle at our age. It's a slow grind and if you train as you mentioned you'll be frustrated.
    He has said several times that he does not want to look like a bodybuilder. I told him in another thread not to worry because it is not going to happen on accident. I don’t get it when I see people say that, do they not realize how hard it is to look like that?
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
    ~Originally posted by ironwill2008
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    Originally Posted by tblodg15 View Post
    He has said several times that he does not want to look like a bodybuilder. I told him in another thread not to worry because it is not going to happen on accident. I don’t get it when I see people say that, do they not realize how hard it is to look like that?
    Dreaming of the day I wake up swole...
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    Originally Posted by tblodg15 View Post
    He has said several times that he does not want to look like a bodybuilder. I told him in another thread not to worry because it is not going to happen on accident. I don’t get it when I see people say that, do they not realize how hard it is to look like that?
    I am 45-years-old now. There is a history of heart disease on my father's side of the family. I definitely will not be taking anything but creatine, glutamine and a multivitamin and eating healthily to maintain or lose weight while keeping the lean muscle I have developed and will continue developing. I am just interested in being as healthy as possible while having a pleasing aesthetic. I have a fear of losing too much weight because I was painfully thin until my early 30s. It scares me to think of purposely dropping from 182 pounds to 160. I am 5'11" with a small-medium bone structure, sort of like a middleweight boxer, which is why I mentioned Oscar de la Hoya in another post. He was one inch shorter than I am and weighed under 150 pounds. If I want to be lean, healthy, have muscular definition, and greatly improve my cardio, I think I need to lose the fear of weight loss. I just started exercising several months ago after remaining sedentary for around three years and can go an hour on the exercise bike at a resistance of 9 at a 4 minute per mile pace. I then jog a mile on the treadmill at 11 minutes per mile then hit the weights. If I drop 22 pounds via a healthy diet and continued exercise I surmise my strength can still increase and my endurance will improve greatly.
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    [QUOTE=induced_drag;1588488541]Yes with Dru on the endo meso, ecto thing.

    Made not born.

    Me at 18yo. Barely 140lb. Am I an ecto?


    Me 3 years later and 50 lbs heavier (yes natural). Did I suddenly transform into meso?



    No, I just under ate and never trained prior. I am lucky to have found that I have a good response to training, but if I had never trained, would I have just been an ecto skinny fat adult? Probably. I am the smallest of my family and was always the runt of the litter so to speak. But the underlying genes were still there, just waiting to be expressed.



    That is an impressive transformation, especially in three years. I have not extensively studied the literature regarding the ectomorph/ mesomorph/endomorph designations. That said, I think the ability to gain mass and muscle is, in large part, genetically determined. Given the right diet and training regime, however, (and possibly steroids) I think it is possible for people with small body frames to look mesomorphic. The aesthetic is simply much harder for those people to achieve.
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    Current pictures - full body and upper arm flexed in mirror

    Originally Posted by tblodg15 View Post
    He has said several times that he does not want to look like a bodybuilder. I told him in another thread not to worry because it is not going to happen on accident. I don’t get it when I see people say that, do they not realize how hard it is to look like that?
    After looking at the pictures, do you think I can lose 22 pounds to create a better aesthetic or do you think I would look too thin? My BMI would be 22.3 at 160 pounds. Keep in mind I have my stomach muscles contracted, reducing the appearance of abdominal fat. I would like to think a 22 pound weight loss would come, in large part, from my abdomen and chest. The fat in both areas is obscuring muscle.
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    Last edited by Arizona45; 09-25-2019 at 02:40 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Arizona45 View Post
    I am 45-years-old now. There is a history of heart disease on my father's side of the family. I definitely will not be taking anything but creatine, glutamine and a multivitamin and eating healthily to maintain or lose weight
    That is exactly my protocol, in addition to creatine and a multivitamin I take fish oil pills and use whey protein powder.

    I don’t have a history of heart disease but the reason I started at 49 was to improve my blood pressure and cholesterol which were steadily climbing. And they both dropped drastically the first year, improved a little more the 2nd year of exercise and eating properly and then I maintained those good numbers this 3rd year of my fitness journey.
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
    ~Originally posted by ironwill2008
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    Originally Posted by tblodg15 View Post
    That is exactly my protocol, in addition to creatine and a multivitamin I take fish oil pills and use whey protein powder.

    I don’t have a history of heart disease but the reason I started at 49 was to improve my blood pressure and cholesterol which were steadily climbing. And they both dropped drastically the first year, improved a little more the 2nd year of exercise and eating properly and then I maintained those good numbers this 3rd year of my fitness journey.
    I have a phobia about swallowing pills so I take cod liver oil. I also consume quite a bit of soy and fatty fish because they both boost my HDL cholesterol
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    Originally Posted by Arizona45 View Post
    I have a phobia about swallowing pills so I take cod liver oil. I also consume quite a bit of soy and fatty fish because they both boost my HDL cholesterol
    Ditch the soy. Turns testosterone into estrogen in part.
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    Ditch the soy. Turns testosterone into estrogen in part.
    I am aware of the risks but I have some degree of lactose intolerance and it seems to improve my cholesterol. For some reason, Muscle Milk serves as a stool regulator for me. I am not certain why. Other protein drinks do not have that effect upon me.
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    Like grubman said earlier, you’re still overthinking this. Your goals are not onerous or extreme, just eat healthy and exercise with a reasonable combination of weights and cardio. It’s no big deal, it will work. You won’t be a fat slob, and you won’t be a cartoon superhero. You’ll just be healthy.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

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    Originally Posted by Arizona45 View Post
    After looking at the pictures, do you think I can lose 22 pounds to create a better aesthetic or do you think I would look too thin?
    Just start working out and eating in a deficit with enough protein. Looks like the typical “skinny fat” build to me. You will know much more after you trim down some and build a little muscle over the first 3 to 6 months.

    Getting started with good effort and consistency is way more important than the minor details.
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
    ~Originally posted by ironwill2008
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    Originally Posted by Arizona45 View Post
    I have a phobia about swallowing pills so I take cod liver oil. I also consume quite a bit of soy and fatty fish because they both boost my HDL cholesterol
    You can take Carlsons fish oil as I do, its in liquid form but on the pricey side, 2 tsp a day and that amount will give you the proper EPA and DHA that are the benefits of the fish oil your looking for, generally, fish oil pills don't even come close the proper amount of EPA and DHA and would require large sums of pills to reach that. You need to get on a good weight lifting plan like fierce 5 and stick to it for a couple of years. Also it appears your diet could use a but of a change. Good luck.
    "Once you see results, it becomes an addiction."
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    Originally Posted by tommydamic68 View Post
    You can take Carlsons fish oil as I do, its in liquid form but on the pricey side, 2 tsp a day and that amount will give you the proper EPA and DHA that are the benefits of the fish oil your looking for, generally, fish oil pills don't even come close the proper amount of EPA and DHA and would require large sums of pills to reach that. You need to get on a good weight lifting plan like fierce 5 and stick to it for a couple of years. Also it appears your diet could use a but of a change. Good luck.
    Thanks for the response. Yeah, I forgot about Carlson's. Thanks for reminding me. I took it in the past. I am changing my diet. I am down to 18% body fat in several months and am at 181 pounds. I have gotten a lot stronger and have much more endurance.
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