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  1. #1771
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FatSoonGone View Post
    So just to understand. Correct me if I'm wrong. For squats my 10 rep max is 135

    So day 1 week 1
    33x8 warmup
    67x8 warmup
    135x 8
    135 x 8

    Day 2 10 percent less
    30x8 warmup
    61x8 warmup
    122 x8
    122 x 8

    Day 3 20 percent less
    28x 8 warmup
    54x8 warmup
    108x 8
    108 x8

    I rounded off to whole numbers.
    Yes it sounds like you understand the pattern.

    And if you know what you are doing you can vastly simplify the warmup section. You could spend the entire cycle with 10 reps of the bar, followed by 10 reps of something around 50-75% of your medium day, and use that for every session, for a few cycles till you add quite a bit more weight.

    The warmup section is to keep beginners from spending 20min warming up, and making it so complicated you cant tell were warmup ends and worksets begin.
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  2. #1772
    Registered User FatSoonGone's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Yes it sounds like you understand the pattern.

    And if you know what you are doing you can vastly simplify the warmup section. You could spend the entire cycle with 10 reps of the bar, followed by 10 reps of something around 50-75% of your medium day, and use that for every session, for a few cycles till you add quite a bit more weight.

    The warmup section is to keep beginners from spending 20min warming up, and making it so complicated you cant tell were warmup ends and worksets begin.
    So for the warmups use the bar only to make it easier
    Day 1
    Set 1 bar x 10
    Set 2 bar x 10
    Set 3, 4 x8 x 135

    Day 2 and 3 only the work sets get decreased?
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  3. #1773
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FatSoonGone View Post
    So for the warmups use the bar only to make it easier
    Day 1
    Set 1 bar x 10
    Set 2 bar x 10
    Set 3, 4 x8 x 135

    Day 2 and 3 only the work sets get decreased?
    Sort of, the bar for 10, then somewhere between the bar and 108lbs for 10, for the entire cycle, all days. And yes only day 2 and 3 only the work sets get decreased.

    As you progress on your lifting career will normally end up always starting with the bar for 10, and then adding a warmup set for every 60-80lbs you put on the bar. The amount of reps in the warmup will change after you do the bar for 10, depending on what program you are running.

    If my light day was 135lbs, odd are i would do the bar for 10, and then slap on some 25's to make it 95lbs for 10, and then go into my work sets. The difference between 95 and 135 is way less than 60-80lbs. Now if my workset was 205lbs, i would do something like the bar for 10, 95lbs for 10, and then 155lbs for 5(just because i have 55's, and its easy to slap on some 55's for the warmup, and then slap on some 25's to make it 205).
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  4. #1774
    Registered User kalobandor's Avatar
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    Can I do OHP with close grip instead of regular grip?
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  5. #1775
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    If you are on regular, you should be hitting both sets of 10 on week 3 each cycle if you are trying to cut down to below 13-15%. Its almost impossible to progress when going for abs, or cutting while having flexed abs.

    So as long as your numbers are not going down month to month, yet your weight is going down, i would call that a win You are still increasing your power to weight ratio.
    Ah OK, cheers, that was the idea I'm following - I do at least as many reps as I did previously and more when I can, so even on 1800 calories I've managed to progress on some lifts over time. Just my squat is stuck, so I was wondering if it was a good idea to just keep grinding out 10,9 reps @ 90kg every time I go there. I'm 73.5kg/162lbs now, and I think I have to get to 70kg to have abs. I measured my BF with the online navy calculator and it said I was like 18%bf which sounds crazy compared to how thin I am. I should actually measure it again.
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  6. #1776
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    is it ok to change the order or is it designed to hit muscles in a certain order? i have added a lat bar exercise at your recommendation but here is the issue, in part due to laziness ...

    My weight station has a removable bench (which has to be taken off to do squats rows etc) and lat bar pole which is good as i have limited space but it is a bit of a P.I.T.A to take off and put on so i would like to start or finish with the two exercises that use the bench (Bench Press and Lat). is there a way to jiggle the routine about to accommodate that?

    Secondly can anyone point me in the direction of some ROM exercises i can do between sets during the 30 (when changing weighs) to 60 seconds pause?
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  7. #1777
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kalobandor View Post
    Can I do OHP with close grip instead of regular grip?
    As long as elbows are under wrists.
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  8. #1778
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by UncleLemmon View Post
    is it ok to change the order or is it designed to hit muscles in a certain order? i have added a lat bar exercise at your recommendation but here is the issue, in part due to laziness ...

    My weight station has a removable bench (which has to be taken off to do squats rows etc) and lat bar pole which is good as i have limited space but it is a bit of a P.I.T.A to take off and put on so i would like to start or finish with the two exercises that use the bench (Bench Press and Lat). is there a way to jiggle the routine about to accommodate that?

    Secondly can anyone point me in the direction of some ROM exercises i can do between sets during the 30 (when changing weighs) to 60 seconds pause?
    Bench/row/squat need to be done first, in no particular order, then the rest. The order is setup for speed and so you dont hit the same muscle back to back. Its ok to do OHP directly after bench if there is a 5-10min delay due to waiting to workin etc.

    I dont understand the 2nd question. The only rest is 90 seconds or less between work sets. There is no pause between warmups or exercises. And no you should not be doing stuff during the 90 seconds, that is recovery and you will need it. If its killing you just reduce the rest times, 90 seconds is the max, not the min, some only do 30 seconds on light day.
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  9. #1779
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WrathfulOne View Post
    Ah OK, cheers, that was the idea I'm following - I do at least as many reps as I did previously and more when I can, so even on 1800 calories I've managed to progress on some lifts over time. Just my squat is stuck, so I was wondering if it was a good idea to just keep grinding out 10,9 reps @ 90kg every time I go there. I'm 73.5kg/162lbs now, and I think I have to get to 70kg to have abs. I measured my BF with the online navy calculator and it said I was like 18%bf which sounds crazy compared to how thin I am. I should actually measure it again.
    Since its rep goal its difficult to pick a pattern. You could try adding a 3rd set to squats, but still use the first 2 sets as your rep goal guide, just use the 3rd set for some volume work.
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  10. #1780
    Registered User WrathfulOne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    Since its rep goal its difficult to pick a pattern. You could try adding a 3rd set to squats, but still use the first 2 sets as your rep goal guide, just use the 3rd set for some volume work.
    Cool, I'll try that. I assume the same weight for the 3rd set?

    Regarding the order of exercises, it's a funny one. Usually I do squat,OHP, bench, rows then SLDL, but yesterday I did rows, OHP, bench, squat then SLDL and my OHP, bench and rows all went up to 12 reps. Don't know if it was doing squats last which meant I had more energy for the other lifts. I know on GSLP you do squats last since the creator believes your bench won't affect your squat but doing it the other way around will affect bench due to fatigue.
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  11. #1781
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WrathfulOne View Post
    Cool, I'll try that. I assume the same weight for the 3rd set?

    Regarding the order of exercises, it's a funny one. Usually I do squat,OHP, bench, rows then SLDL, but yesterday I did rows, OHP, bench, squat then SLDL and my OHP, bench and rows all went up to 12 reps. Don't know if it was doing squats last which meant I had more energy for the other lifts. I know on GSLP you do squats last since the creator believes your bench won't affect your squat but doing it the other way around will affect bench due to fatigue.
    The only reason squat is first in most beginners routines, is because if it was last beginners would skip them. The squat also requires the most practice, and at the beginning puts on the most meat. You dont want to be learning a motor pattern while tired. On the other hand you are free to run the exercises in any order as long as you are not hitting the same muscle group back to back with less than 5-10min of rest.

    I will ether put my worst progressing lift first, or put the lift im learning first. Unfortunate my worst lift is normally the squat.

    In other news this girl is doing the SLDL perfectly for the program if anyone is confused on how to do it still.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mdU28X5Vv4&gl=CA
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  12. #1782
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    I just completed my first 5 week cycle of the All Pro Routine for the second time. I did it about a year and a half ago, came down with a nasty Upper Respiratory Infection and never went back to the gym because sitting on my butt was easier. I'm going for weightloss at the moment, since the start of the routine and watching my diet I've gone from 203.6 to 182.6 current, this past week I've seemed to have stalled out in my weightloss progression going between 182.6 and 183.4. I limit my carbs to a bare minimum on non-lifting days and any day I do lift I try and usually succeed (there has been exceptions) to only intake one or two servings max pre-workout. On my 5th week I completed all 12 reps on my heavy day, so I'm due for a 10% increase. I've gone as far as on my medium and light days to add an extra working set. I'm wondering if I should deload for this week and just do a bodyweight circuit and jump back into another cycle next week of All Pro or if I should look at a new routine completely. I've been able to do All Pro with zero rest time between warmup sets other than slapping on the extra plates to up my weight and only 1 minute rest between working sets, my dad has a full gym in his basement so I'm able to set up my circuit without stopping. I fear switching into a new routine will just not yield the same results AP has in the first 5 week cycle and will not be high intensity enough for me. Any suggestions would be greatly welcomed.
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  13. #1783
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Murflow View Post
    I just completed my first 5 week cycle of the All Pro Routine for the second time. I did it about a year and a half ago, came down with a nasty Upper Respiratory Infection and never went back to the gym because sitting on my butt was easier. I'm going for weightloss at the moment, since the start of the routine and watching my diet I've gone from 203.6 to 182.6 current, this past week I've seemed to have stalled out in my weightloss progression going between 182.6 and 183.4. I limit my carbs to a bare minimum on non-lifting days and any day I do lift I try and usually succeed (there has been exceptions) to only intake one or two servings max pre-workout. On my 5th week I completed all 12 reps on my heavy day, so I'm due for a 10% increase. I've gone as far as on my medium and light days to add an extra working set. I'm wondering if I should deload for this week and just do a bodyweight circuit and jump back into another cycle next week of All Pro or if I should look at a new routine completely. I've been able to do All Pro with zero rest time between warmup sets other than slapping on the extra plates to up my weight and only 1 minute rest between working sets, my dad has a full gym in his basement so I'm able to set up my circuit without stopping. I fear switching into a new routine will just not yield the same results AP has in the first 5 week cycle and will not be high intensity enough for me. Any suggestions would be greatly welcomed.
    Sounds like you do not have the formula down.
    This program does not work with low carb since its fatigue based.
    Base diet is 100g of fat/protien and 200-300g of carbs
    cardio is 3x10k jogs per week
    There is no deloads if you pass test day. Beginners do not need monthly deloads till the very end of beginner status (else you would be spending 3 months a year in the deload zone)
    weight goals should be losing 1% bw per week while progressing at 10%, till flexed abs.
    You are correct there is no rest times between warmups nor between exercises, and 90 seconds between sets is the max not the min, some only do 30 second rests on light day and complete the program in under 30min.


    Your other option, since you are 5.11 and 180lbs, is to run ICF 5x5 for 90 days, with the aim of maintaining body wieght. ICF is a MUCH harder program and 1/3 of gen pop cant cut it after 90 days.
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  14. #1784
    Platinum Account Member enr33's Avatar
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    nightanole,

    summer classes and some other things have kind of gotten in the way but im aiming for next tuesday as my start date for jarheads.

    Is it optimal for helping me build my forearms, biceps and triceps? Also its not a powerlifting routine is it? Im more concerned with having big muscles and looking big than being able to lift alot of weight....

    Next tuesday will have been 3 weeks since I last lifted weights.
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  15. #1785
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by enr33 View Post
    nightanole,

    summer classes and some other things have kind of gotten in the way but im aiming for next tuesday as my start date for jarheads.

    Is it optimal for helping me build my forearms, biceps and triceps? Also its not a powerlifting routine is it? Im more concerned with having big muscles and looking big than being able to lift alot of weight....

    Next tuesday will have been 3 weeks since I last lifted weights.
    Jarheads is the hypertrophy section of Doug Young powerlifting training. Its not focused on strength (though he gives the variants for switching to strength). It is bicep/forearm heavy in terms of arm work. Im not going to tell you to add behind the head skull crushers, but thats what my first accessory would be after the vetting period. Jarhead even eludes to this after 90 days.

    Jarhead is also developing a upper/lower intermediate routine but hasnt posted it.

    I will tell you that the leg work on that program is a real arse kicker and i could never dial it in properly. If you run the program, DO NOT HAVE FAILED REPS. You can fail sets and have to stop short, but if you run that program (or any program for that matter) and have to bail on several sets a week, you will get on the injured list. Jarhead mentions this, stop after a slow rep, do not force reps with compromised form.
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  16. #1786
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    Nightanole I've sent you a DM for when you get a chance.
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  17. #1787
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    hey nightanole, is it absolutely mandatory not to lift more than 3x per week ?
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  18. #1788
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SmackBang77 View Post
    hey nightanole, is it absolutely mandatory not to lift more than 3x per week ?
    No its based on recovery speed. If you run auto regulated you can workout till you are blue in the face, the reps per day will just change based on recovery. Regardless of how many times you workout, you will only be able to get in so many sets a week without having to drop the weight.
    You might be able to run heavy one set every day of the week, but over all tonnage lifted per week is really not going to be much higher than 20%, and you are not going to get 20% more gains.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    No its based on recovery speed. If you run auto regulated you can workout till you are blue in the face, the reps per day will just change based on recovery. Regardless of how many times you workout, you will only be able to get in so many sets a week without having to drop the weight.
    You might be able to run heavy one set every day of the week, but over all tonnage lifted per week is really not going to be much higher than 20%, and you are not going to get 20% more gains.
    Thanks for the reply,

    Ok, so in your opinion is it worth it to add an extra day in which you do a partial routine ? My squats and back are lacking so would it help if I threw in a few exercises for these ?
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  20. #1790
    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SmackBang77 View Post
    Thanks for the reply,

    Ok, so in your opinion is it worth it to add an extra day in which you do a partial routine ? My squats and back are lacking so would it help if I threw in a few exercises for these ?
    I would do the warmup section of the squat each day. And if you know what part of your back is lagging you an add one set of that. However if it is a recovery issue any aditional volume other than the warmup sets will be detrimental. The lower back is the slowest recovering muscle group, so make sure its a weakness and not fatigue.
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  21. #1791
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    I dont understand this that I have qouted " The first work out is your heavy work out. The second work out is your medium work out, use 10% less weight for your work sets. The final work out for the week is your lite work out, use 20% less weight."


    example I bench press 20kg on tuesday for 3 sets of 8 but 2 of my last sets on the bench press I can only hit about 6 reps.

    so on thursday I should take 10% less weight off 20kg? so that would be 10kg I would be bench pressing?
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    Registered User nightanole's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by trytogetbetter View Post
    I dont understand this that I have qouted " The first work out is your heavy work out. The second work out is your medium work out, use 10% less weight for your work sets. The final work out for the week is your lite work out, use 20% less weight."


    example I bench press 20kg on tuesday for 3 sets of 8 but 2 of my last sets on the bench press I can only hit about 6 reps.

    so on thursday I should take 10% less weight off 20kg? so that would be 10kg I would be bench pressing?
    uhhh i dont understand anything you are doing. Allpro is 2 work sets. You pick a weight you can do at least 10 reps with. You start with 2 sets of 8 reps with 90 seconds or less rest, that is your heavy day. Your medium day is 90% of your heavy day, your light day is 80% of your heavy day.

    If you can do 25kg for 2 sets of 8 on monday, you do 22.5kg on weds, and just the 20kg bar on friday.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    uhhh i dont understand anything you are doing. Allpro is 2 work sets. You pick a weight you can do at least 10 reps with. You start with 2 sets of 8 reps with 90 seconds or less rest, that is your heavy day. Your medium day is 90% of your heavy day, your light day is 80% of your heavy day.

    If you can do 25kg for 2 sets of 8 on monday, you do 22.5kg on weds, and just the 20kg bar on friday.
    I see now thanks, shame I use dumbbells for bench press.
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    After a few sessions of adding a 3rd set of 6 reps to my squats, I was able to increase them to 90kg for 2x12 after being stuck at 90kg for 10,9 for a few weeks. Thanks for the suggestion nightanole! I don't know if it was the additional volume that helped me progress, or the fact I decided to use a bit more bounce rather than doing them really slowly, but something helped, so time to finally jump to 95kg.
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    nightanole, im taking this summer class online and its a larger commitment than I thought. Its been 3 weeks since Ive lfited and I dont think I'll be able to review the sticky in time for next weeks workouts. Got work all week so I'll try for week after the next. Really dissapointing. Feels like a huge setback.

    Is it really as bad as I think?
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    Originally Posted by enr33 View Post
    nightanole, im taking this summer class online and its a larger commitment than I thought. Its been 3 weeks since Ive lfited and I dont think I'll be able to review the sticky in time for next weeks workouts. Got work all week so I'll try for week after the next. Really dissapointing. Feels like a huge setback.

    Is it really as bad as I think?
    You are going to lose about 4 reps if you take 3 weeks+ off. On the bright side you will gain them back incredibly quick. Its called "detraining". Some programs call out for it, so its not the end of the world. You can either run autoregulated with your current weights, or retest your 10 rep maxes after you get back in the swing of things.
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    nightanole, do you have any recommendation for an alternative to barbell rows? I've actually being doing Pendlay rows and just tweaked my back today . Something similar happened a while back, but nothing this bad, so I'm thinking of just doing dumbbell rows instead since it's not worth the risk of it happening again and having to take time off training.

    I'm going to try bar only squats on Friday and see if it's any better. TBH it's my own fault since my form on rows was bad but I kept lifting anyway and heaving the weight up. I guess I could try chest supported dumbbell rows since it's not possible to cheat those.
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    Originally Posted by WrathfulOne View Post
    nightanole, do you have any recommendation for an alternative to barbell rows? I've actually being doing Pendlay rows and just tweaked my back today . Something similar happened a while back, but nothing this bad, so I'm thinking of just doing dumbbell rows instead since it's not worth the risk of it happening again and having to take time off training.

    I'm going to try bar only squats on Friday and see if it's any better. TBH it's my own fault since my form on rows was bad but I kept lifting anyway and heaving the weight up. I guess I could try chest supported dumbbell rows since it's not possible to cheat those.
    A Tbar row would relieve your back so you dont have to drop the weight. Else you could switch to chinups (not pullups). Yea that is one of the reasons why i quit greyskull LP, you dont know when to end the set on the rows.
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    Originally Posted by nightanole View Post
    A Tbar row would relieve your back so you dont have to drop the weight. Else you could switch to chinups (not pullups). Yea that is one of the reasons why i quit greyskull LP, you dont know when to end the set on the rows.
    OK thanks mate. Yeah I always thought that about rows! Pretty much every other movement you can feel or see when your form has broken down, but with rows since you are looking at the floor you can't really spot back rounding, and it's hard for me to even feel it since it's a fast pull from the floor, in the case of Pendlay rows at least. Also as the set progresses, you might have started off well and not realise that your back is starting to round as you get fatigued.

    Aren't chins a vertical pull though, and I am supposed to do a horizontal pull? I was actually doing them already until I dropped them to try bring my squat up. I feel like my lower back has been getting hit too much now since I just got up to 95kg squats, then I have to do 80kg SLDL and rows after, so my lower back is taking a strain from 3 movements every session.
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  30. #1800
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    Originally Posted by WrathfulOne View Post
    OK thanks mate. Yeah I always thought that about rows! Pretty much every other movement you can feel or see when your form has broken down, but with rows since you are looking at the floor you can't really spot back rounding, and it's hard for me to even feel it since it's a fast pull from the floor, in the case of Pendlay rows at least. Also as the set progresses, you might have started off well and not realise that your back is starting to round as you get fatigued.

    Aren't chins a vertical pull though, and I am supposed to do a horizontal pull? I was actually doing them already until I dropped them to try bring my squat up. I feel like my lower back has been getting hit too much now since I just got up to 95kg squats, then I have to do 80kg SLDL and rows after, so my lower back is taking a strain from 3 movements every session.
    Lats and biceps. Direction really doesnt matter much. You could also switch to kroc rows if you want to use dumb bells for a cycle. Just touch the ground between reps.
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